| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 03 Sep 2002 : 10:36:01
Thought id start a new topic on the post from the discussion on Elminster (http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11) on Kahonens point on Halruaa easily defeating Thay.
What makes you sure on that point Kahonen? Im not arguing against it, i just wondered if there is any evidence or reason to your point?
I have just finished reading the Kings and Councelors trilogy and got my first glimpse of Halruaa, the only thing ive read on Thay is the Red Wizards Harpers novel.
So who WOULD actually win if war were declared?!?
Rad
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 08:14:56
Hard, but not impossible. Had Aoth and Bareris been fighting an undead monstrosity by the time they saw their imbecile subordinates torture a family, I would understand if they would ignore them. But no, the two were relatively unoccupied that time, and saw it fit [dictated by conscience or some semblance of humanity in them] to stop such brutish act. The author fairly established Aoth and Bareris not as uncaring bastards. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 06:41:48
Hm, look to the most "evil" and oppressed societies of our own world today ... you won't find a lot of people with pure and noble ideals who are willing to defy their social norms and challenge their peers (especially their most violent peers) in the name of doing what they feel is right. Murder is much less of a crime when you see people die and walk past corpses every day, it's hard to keep your hands unsoiled when you're staying alive in a war zone. So too with crimes of rape and torture in our own medieval histories. Why should the Realms, let alone the most tyrannized places like Thay, be completely different? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 06:31:55
Simply put, their hearts possess a shred of goodness. While arguably most Thayans are cruel and sadistic, particularly the ruling elite, some of them, not just of Rashemi blood but even the Mulan themselves, are not. Besides, Bareris and Aoth are not Red Wizards. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 06:23:23
quote:
Dennis
Bareris and Aoth punished some imbeciles in their troops who tortured a family and intended to rape a girl.
Actually, that particular scene gave me some pause for troubled consideration. Certainly our societies (and milktoast-inoffensive Wizbro publishing guidelines) laud such efforts to do the right thing, protect the weak, and punish injustice. Rape, torture, and murder are some of the worst crimes imaginable.
But Aoth Fezim, Warmage and once Captain of the Thayan Griffon Legion of Pyarados, was a product of the Thayan military machine. Thayan born, trained, and tempered. Indeed, his rather obvious "disadvantage" of Rashemi heritage forced him to be exemplary, more capable, more ruthless, than any of his "purebred" Mulan-blooded peers, lest he come under scrutiny as a weakling or traitor. In my mind a Thayan Captain would hardly notice, let alone punish, acts of brutality committed by his troops unless they interfere with military objectives and readiness; sad to say, but if anything such Captains would probably deliberately tolerate (even encourage) "reasonable amounts" of such activities to keep morale of the troops in top form. Medieval soldiers were not at all like professional modern ones - even most of the the noble-born and elite militants weren't exceptions - and they were highly motivated by rape, plunder, and pillage; it was something of a "benefit" in their vocation, and a big part of what made war so horrible for the losers, hard callous killers living in a hard callous world. Such activities were also a big part of the reputation and diplomatic/political negotiating power possessed by military officers; meet their demands or have your city sacked.
Bareris Anskuld, even though a bit of a loser, was also Thay born and bred, plus he was a marginally sophisticated bard with wordly experience. Even if he personally disapproved of the practice, he would still recognize it as an inevitable event in war, at least in the armies of Thay; one simply cannot command brutish men without sometimes allowing them to be brutes.
So, in short, I was rather surprised to see this passage applied to Thayan troops. In my mind such passages should've been struck entirely out of the writing, let the more sophisticated readers judge the context for themselves rather than be forced to accept the judgement imposed by our society's published sense of justice. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 05:55:42
Civil wars have been fought for many years, in many nations, without any resemblance to the "North/South" polarity or issues seen in the American Civil War, sleyvas. Some of these split continent-spanning empires and civilizations, impacting politics and people for centuries. Some formed religious schisms which even today seethe endlessly until they erupt into conflict. Not trying to diminish the importance of the American Civil War, just pointing out that it was a relatively minor and contained conflict when measured on the scale of world history. Civil war in Thay would be less significant still, assuming anybody other than Szass Tam manages to survive it. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 04:42:04
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
They'd also probably have less control of their troops as well, as their troops would be out to rape and pillage.
Not unless they have skilled and disciplined captains. Bareris and Aoth punished some imbeciles in their troops who tortured a family and intended to rape a girl. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 01:20:13
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Zulkirs are formidable opponents indeed, but [....] they hardly ever act in a cooperative and cohesive manner, instead spending most of their efforts attempting to thwart each other [....]
I noted this before. While selfish beyond measure, the zulkirs would readily unite to face a common, foreign threat. Their alliance, albeit uneasy, during the Civil War is a proof of that. I wouldn't say they would exploit the situation to gain an upper hand over their peers, but ultimately, they would devote their armies and even their own powers to defend their realm.
Yeah, again it comes back to who is invading whom, etc.... If Halruaa invaded Thay, I'd compare it to the start of the Civil War. The southerners would be the Thayans, highly skilled in combat magics and killing, familiar with the territory, and highly effective in guerrilla tactics in their own homeland, while also able to form up and perform well together if necessary to defend the homeland.
However, if Thay were invading Halruaa, they wouldn't be as together as a force, they'd have infighting more likely in their ranks, and their guerrilla tactics would probably incite fierce opposition against them from the Halruaans such that they would have to kill everyone they came across. They'd also probably have less control of their troops as well, as their troops would be out to rape and pillage. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 09:16:58
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Zulkirs are formidable opponents indeed, but [....] they hardly ever act in a cooperative and cohesive manner, instead spending most of their efforts attempting to thwart each other [....]
I noted this before. While selfish beyond measure, the zulkirs would readily unite to face a common, foreign threat. Their alliance, albeit uneasy, during the Civil War is a proof of that. I wouldn't say they would exploit the situation to gain an upper hand over their peers, but ultimately, they would devote their armies and even their own powers to defend their realm. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 09:10:20
Indeed, sleyvas. As a matter of fact, that's what happened to Samas Kul. He's powerful, but not the most powerful in his order. Szass Tam's spies and allies influenced the Order of Transmutation to choose Samas because the lich knew it would benefit him. The more powerful one is, the harder it is to manipulate him. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 08:57:10
The Zulkirs are formidable opponents indeed, but
1) there's only eight of them, at best, which is insignificant against the thousands of mages in a nation, and
2) they hardly ever act in a cooperative and cohesive manner, instead spending most of their efforts attempting to thwart each other, and
3) Halruaa has some number of formidable epic-tier megamages as well.
Agreed that experience level alone is not an accurate indicator of capability when much of a Zulkir's power is measured in terms of steel, wealth, allies, and enemies. Power - whatever that is - can be defined as ability to impose control or change on one's environment, and Zulkirs can apply plenty of power without even needing to call directly upon their magics. There are probably quite a few Red Wizards with experience levels exceeding those of their Zulkirs, yet without sufficient power (or opportunity, or ruthless ambition) to advance themselves. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 06:38:38
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I wouldn't be so sure about Halruaa winning the day.
From Shinning South:
quote:
Until about six months ago, Aluarim was the home of Rhodea
Firehair (NG female human evoker 18/Halruaan elder 3), the
most powerful evoker in the country
Level 21 doesn't seem so powerfull compared to the zulkirs especially Szass Tam.
So Halruaa has more magic users, more magic items and maybe knows some more magic tricks, Thay on the other hand has more powerfull magic users and much expirience in wars. I guess that doesn't sound so bad for Thay.
Btw: beeing a wizard and beeing a wizards who knows how to fight is a big diffrent too in my opinion.
Well, that is just the most powerful student of "evocation". Unlike Thay, it is not always the most powerful who are the most well known to most people.
From Forgotten realms Campaign setting
Necromancy: Szass Tam Nec10/Red10/Acm2/Epic7 CR31
Conjuration: Nevron Cjr10/Red10/Acm2/Epic2 CR24
Transmutation: Druxus Rhym Tra10/Red10/Acm4 CR24
Abjuration: Lallara Abj10/Red10/Acm1 CR21
Enchantment: Lauzoril Enc10/Red10/Acm2 CR22
Evocation: Aznar Thrul Evo10/Red10/Acm3 CR23
Divination: Yaphyll Div10/Red5/Lor4 CR19
Transmutation 2: Samas Kul Tra7/Red8 CR15 (He took over as Zulkir of Transmutation after.
King Zalathorm of Haluraa is a Div20/Lor9 CR29
And many of the others mentioned in Shining south don"t seem all that different from the powerful of Thay
One thing people also forget to mention is that its not always the highest level caster of said type who becomes Zulkir. Its very much political clout as well. There have been other red wizards listed in the past who were beyond the level of their Zulkirs, but they didn't want to deal with the bureaucracy that also comes with running a country. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 02:06:27
A first-level Protection from cantrips spell can nullify any advantage generated by mass quantities of cantra-level magics. Even assuming, of course, that a goodly number of cantras could somehow be applied to some sort of conflict instead of, say, causing breaded yeast to rise at the proper time or chisels to stay sharp longer. Remember that Halruuan cantras are simple minor magics, developed to aid non-magical everyday work tasks in small ways, quite useful in their specialized applications but also quite trivial overall, they are not at all like random innate talents which duplicate spells of any level. I doubt any cantras could mimic magic missile effects, except perhaps on a scale suitable for zapping a housefly across the room.
If my players are any indicator, when their spellcasting characters expect magical battles, then far more potent defenses like dispel magic, globe of invulnerability, anti-magic shell, or sertan's spell immunity are standard preparations - not to mention shield, invisibility, blur, and all the rest. I can't see how a common man armed with a few cantras could possibly contest a real wizard, let alone an aggressive wizard prepared for battle.
I can see Halruaan populations having more of a cosmopolitan background understanding of common spell principles; they might know that the stench of sulphur usually means take cover from fireballs, or that lightning bolts can be impeded by stone, etc. Most commoners outside Halruaa (including Thayan peasantry) are largely ignorant and fearful of magic; they're likely to make some sort of "secret" superstitious warding gesture, carry useless charms to protect against evil magics, and assume all wizards have sold their souls to demons to gain fell powers.
I'm not so sure Halruaan citizens would possess a lot of magical items of any consequence, items like self-heating cookpots and variable intensity glowstones seem unlikely to be very decisive when used in battle. I suppose Halruaan magic users (the real ones with spellcasting classes) might possess a much higher concentration of magical gear, though again I'm unconvinced a lot of it would be greatly useful in combat. Halruaans are known for accurate divination magics, which can translate into great advantages indeed, if properly utilized. Halruaans are also known to have widely travelled other planes and worlds, so perhaps they might possess some celestial toys designed specifically to counter the sorts of fiendish contraptions employed by Red Wizards. I think it's reasonable to assume that Halruaan medicine and alchemy is much more advanced; it doesn't seem too unreasonable for every household to contain a few magical potions, some of which might be very useful in battle.
I'm not trying to definitely assert that Thay is superior to Halruaa, especially since (as stated above) I know a fair amount about Red Wizards but I'm really not all well informed about Halruaan specifics. It does seem to me that - insofar as magical duelling, destruction, and dominance are concerned - the Red Wizards have many overwhelming advantages. A battalion of veteran 18th century musket-wielding cavalrymen would likely achieve quick and decisive victory when assaulting a modern suburban neighbourhood, no matter how sophisticated and advanced the local population might be. It's like comparing jalapeńos to tomatoes, hardly the same thing and no contest at all when things get spicy. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 01:48:30
That's only because Halruaa doesn't
have a comprehensive list of
archmages. We've never seen a list
of 20+level mages of Halruaa. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 01:01:49
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I wouldn't be so sure about Halruaa winning the day.
From Shinning South:
quote:
Until about six months ago, Aluarim was the home of Rhodea
Firehair (NG female human evoker 18/Halruaan elder 3), the
most powerful evoker in the country
Level 21 doesn't seem so powerfull compared to the zulkirs especially Szass Tam.
So Halruaa has more magic users, more magic items and maybe knows some more magic tricks, Thay on the other hand has more powerfull magic users and much expirience in wars. I guess that doesn't sound so bad for Thay.
Btw: beeing a wizard and beeing a wizards who knows how to fight is a big diffrent too in my opinion.
Well, that is just the most powerful student of "evocation". Unlike Thay, it is not always the most powerful who are the most well known to most people.
From Forgotten realms Campaign setting
Necromancy: Szass Tam Nec10/Red10/Acm2/Epic7 CR31
Conjuration: Nevron Cjr10/Red10/Acm2/Epic2 CR24
Transmutation: Druxus Rhym Tra10/Red10/Acm4 CR24
Abjuration: Lallara Abj10/Red10/Acm1 CR21
Enchantment: Lauzoril Enc10/Red10/Acm2 CR22
Evocation: Aznar Thrul Evo10/Red10/Acm3 CR23
Divination: Yaphyll Div10/Red5/Lor4 CR19
Transmutation 2: Samas Kul Tra7/Red8 CR15 (He took over as Zulkir of Transmutation after.
King Zalathorm of Haluraa is a Div20/Lor9 CR29
And many of the others mentioned in Shining south don"t seem all that different from the powerful of Thay |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 16:40:49
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You dismiss the overall magic talent of Halruaan citizens -- but even an archmage is in trouble if a few dozen people toss magic missiles at him, all at once. Lenin once observed that quantity is its own quality, and when it comes to talented spellslingers, Halruaa has more of both.
That's why I have persistent shield (Woot). Not saying your argument doesn't bear water for all the others though. Truly, I think like other folks here. Any conflict between these two comes down to location and who is the aggressor (not totally, but those two carry a lot of weight). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 15:34:24
Keep in mind, though, that Halruaa has been attacked by its neighbors, more than once. And Halruaa does have a huge number of high level wizards -- they may not have gotten there by blasting holes in the backs of those in front of them, but to paraphrase Harry Dresden, you don't get to be a high-level wizard by collecting bottle caps.
Magic is pretty much the state religion, in Halruaa. You dismiss the overall magic talent of Halruaan citizens -- but even an archmage is in trouble if a few dozen people toss magic missiles at him, all at once. Lenin once observed that quantity is its own quality, and when it comes to talented spellslingers, Halruaa has more of both. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 08:41:27
The Red Wizards brazenly assert their identity and power, they burn their path through life by dominating their inferiors, they enjoy great wealth and exotic decadence, they constantly push the frontiers of magic and technology forward and possess esoteric knowledge and mastery unknown to the rest of the world. They're also an ambitious, paranoid, scheming, plotting, treacherous lot; constantly grasping and striving to promote themselves, manipulating information, politics, spies, and assassins, and they survive only when constantly countering attacks by their peers and underlings. Their enemies (basically everybody, but most especially foreign wizards, particularly the magically proficient Rashemi Witches and Mulhorandi Elementalists) have attempted to exterminate the Red Wizards many times over many centuries, and yet still they manage to survive, prosper, grow in power, and expand their borders. They constantly hunt for unique magics all across Faerūn, taking what they want and slaying any wizards or liches who choose to obstruct them.
I'm under the impression that Red Wizards are collectively too busy undermining each other to be a unified threat, outside of truly exceptional (and probably temporary or conditional) circumstances ... yet they are individually the most cunning, dangerous, ruthless, and powerful magical opponents one could possibly encounter. Interestingly, many Red Magic spells are cooperative in nature; they allow one Red Wizard to channel the combined magical potency his allies, so I surmise that my above observations are perhaps only the simplified extremes and Red Wizards do work in complex and cooperative groups from time to time.
Compare this to Halruaa. Did Halruaa maintain any sort of tradition of elite battlemages? Any sort of magical champions, defenders, guardians, warriors, assassins? Does Halruaa have a long and bloody history of magical warfare, a magical nemesis, a fanatical mission of magical conquest or superiority? If not, then I seriously doubt Halruaan magic (as sophisticated as it is) could successfully confront a group like the Red Wizards who have mastered such conflicts.
I understand that Halruaan society is more magically capable in general terms, probably even superior overall (since Thay is a static magocracy populated by few Red Wizards and masses of oppressed mundanes), yet I think any substantial conflict between Halruaa and Thay wouldn't be decided by the bakers as much as by the epic mages. I'm not dismissing the population as being inconsequential irritants, not when events take place on national and cultural scales ... but I am dismissing them as inconsequential when facing against a proper wizard, let alone a Red one. See how easily Szass and the Zulkirs manipulate mobs and crowds whenever they choose to do so.
Insofar as magical items ... well, Halruaa probably inherited a lot of stuff from fallen Netheril, then slowly added (and devised) many new items over the subsequent centuries. On the other hand, Thay has been aggressively accumulating and inventing magical items across those same centuries, stimulated (and captured) through endless warfare within and without the borders, stolen from neighbours and distant lands, seized through planar agents. Consider that, circa 3E-era Realms, the Red Wizards opened a large chain of magic shops across Faerūn, selling off their apparently endless surplus and, for discerning buyers, even offering items or spells promptly made to custom specifications. Conversely, Halruaa only offered a few airships for sale at outrageous prices, even these aren't as numerous or versatile as Thay's spelljamming fleet.
Thay got blasted into an undead wasteland in 4E, while Halruaa simply got blasted out of existence, so I'm assuming all these arguments are pre-4E context. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 07:33:39
It depends on what kind of battle. If they are to "clear" some villages sparsely populated by farmers and few retired soldiers, then they wouldn't need an entire city to carry out that job. A dozen veserab riders would suffice. But to defend an allied city or attack a hostile one, they would indeed need Sakkors's, or even Shade's mythallar. In their defense of Selgaunt, it wasn't clear though how useful the mythallar was to the Shadovar troops, except that time when Rivalen needed it to shoo a green dragon. The troops' darkswords looked more than enough to slaughter their enemies. But of course, one may argue that the power said swords might have been augmented by Sakkors's mythallar.
----
Ed said, in answer to my question related to the OP, that Halruaans hoarded a lot of powerful artifacts. The bakers, stableboys, and maids in Halruaa might be puny in the eyes of the haughty Red Wizards, but if they are armed with artifacts (which function with mere trigger words) made by their realm's archmages, I doubt they should be treated as inconsequential irritants. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 07:07:38
I admit that mythallars can present some interesting strategic problems. They can power quasimagical items within a radius of about a mile; access to such items means cheap and easy mass-produced magic handed out to every defender, even to those unable to normally use magic. Yet, also within this radius is the mythallar itself and a populated floating city stronghold, an impressive platform which is nearly unstoppable and nearly unassailable, yet far too precious to risk losing ... given the choice, would the Shadovar prefer to fight within the awesome field of their mythallars or keep the battle as distant as possible? So far they've waged their battles far away from their mythallars, they've even prudently moved their floating cities around to evade attack; this suggests to me that they don't have a large quasimagical arsenal stockpile. The Princes Shade actually seem decidedly timid, worried, even fearful about exposing their precious irreplaceable mythallars to any sort of risk (and themselves to Telamont's wrath), although it is evident they have some capacity to repair damaged mythallars and reactivate inert ones.
Incidentally, I calculate that three mythallars are still unaccounted for. Two could be entirely undamaged and functional, although not located in the Realms and unknown whether or not they went dormant after 1E Mystra's ascension. The third, if it exists, would be in Larloch's possession, taken from his enclave of Jiksidur. There's also always the chance that another mythallar could be found, literally hundreds of them might be sufficiently intact to still service the Shadovar, even if only partially functional.
Although, to my knowledge, Thay and Halruaa didn't and don't have any active mythallars nor much access to quasimagical items, I imagine they might've easily had other magical constructs with similar strategic considerations. They might even have mythals, which are roughly the same thing in military terms, except for being fixed placement engines with comparatively larger (and possibly more powerful) zones of magical influence.
I'll admit I don't know too much about Halruaa, but (pre-Spellplague) Thay certainly had great access to lower-planar and elemental gates, presumably a great number of lower-planar and elemental allies/servants, and countless numbers of fiends of every description (including many exotic and unique varieties, even a few "approaching the gods in power"). I would personally consider all the unique and secretive Red Magic spells and items invented, stolen, and hoarded over the centuries to be more than a match against the silly cantras cast by every baker, stableboy, and scullery maid in Halruaa. What's an airship captained by a skymage compared to a flight of cornugons and pit fiends led by an artifact-wielding Red Wizard, his bodyguards, apprentices, fire elementals, and horde of cannon-fodder lackeys or undead minions? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 06:23:41
While the defender's advantage does not necessarily guarantee victory, it still helps a lot. The siege at Selgaunt comes to mind. Despite the formidable fire elementals of their foes and greater number, they prevailed because the Shadovar were very much prepared to counter their attacks and slaughter them all. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 06:09:37
Defender's advantage is not a global military axiom.
I think it's difficult to say the defender has real advantage in a battle of magic. The range, scope, and magnitude of the weaponry means the battlefield itself quite often gets destroyed - magic (in warfare) is a weapon of mass destruction. If this is so, then the attacker has the battlefield advantage because the defender's territory and resources could be damaged or destroyed whenever the conflict is brought to them. Note that we use long-range missiles to carry nuclear warheads to the enemy's territory instead of simply detonating these warheads near our territory when the enemy approaches.
I'm assuming, too, that such a war would essentially focus on extermination, or maybe dominance. A type of war wherein capturing the enemy's territory and possessions intact would be a lesser objective to denying the enemy ability to use these resources against you; and hardly a concern at all in view of the primary objective of simply neutralizing or destroying the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible, whatever costs and sacrifices are necessary, before he is able to do the same to you. If flaming meteors, volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, poisoned air and water, or legions of fiends are the fastest way to kill lots of those enemy mages before they hit you with the same, then just get it done and worry about the fallout later. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 04:30:53
One very important factor that most scribes overlookebed is the battleground. Where shall the battle be waged? Who will attack whom? I say it's important because half of the time, the invaded territory would prevail, especially when its nigh always prepared for all manner of invasions. |
| swifty |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 22:52:57
quote:
Originally posted by ArcticKnight
IMHO, its a case where Thay would be defeated because while Halruaan Wizards could work together, Thays Wizards would be scheming against each other , WHILE trying to battle the Halruaans.
Also, Halruaa IS magic, almost everyone there can use it, somewhere i read that the higher level mages of Halruaa are at par with the likes of Elminster and all the other Archmages of the world, while only a FEW Red Wizards are at that Status
Halruaa over Thay in 2 Rounds....
that would be the 2e or 3e frcs.i somehow think they wish they hadnt written that.the insinuation there was a load of wizards in the south who could kick elminsters butt wouldnt go down too well now. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 19:50:50
We'll wait till 5E. Who knows, they might resurrect Halruaa from the ashes?! And so shall we see this possible battle coming...
When I'm torn between favorites [yes, I like both Halruaa and Thay], I usually just leave to the author the task of determining the winner. |
| Arianthus Deszault |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 16:54:36
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Shining South says they usually don't use them this way because they are to fragile. Where does it say otherwise?
I don't remember the nation they were fighting against, but I believe it was in the Talath Pass around 1260DR. They fought against the invader using both conventional troops and airships manned by wizards. I am at work and can't check which book it is in, but I will try to find the source when I can! |
| Dennis |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 04:48:38
Hmmm, I buy anthologies, but I don't read all the stories in them. I choose only those written by my favorite authors and/or those featuring my favorite characters. Only Realms of Shadow I read from cover to cover. If the story you're referring to is in that anthology, I can't recall any mention of it at all. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 04:34:57
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Well, maybe Shar was busy somewhere else when Yaphyll was divining the SP. Or perhaps Shar simply allowed it because she has no problem with Thay at all. Heh, there are even Sharans in the nation.
There were shadow weave users in Halruaa, too.
 I wasn't aware of that. I couldn't recall it mentioned in C&K trilogy. Regardless, Shar can sacrifice a few servants to attain her twisted goals.
There was one in one of the Realms of anthologies. I don't recall which one, though... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 03:45:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Well, maybe Shar was busy somewhere else when Yaphyll was divining the SP. Or perhaps Shar simply allowed it because she has no problem with Thay at all. Heh, there are even Sharans in the nation.
There were shadow weave users in Halruaa, too.
I wasn't aware of that. I couldn't recall it mentioned in C&K trilogy. Regardless, Shar can sacrifice a few servants to attain her twisted goals. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 03:39:51
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Well, maybe Shar was busy somewhere else when Yaphyll was divining the SP. Or perhaps Shar simply allowed it because she has no problem with Thay at all. Heh, there are even Sharans in the nation.
There were shadow weave users in Halruaa, too. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 02:49:42
Well, maybe Shar was busy somewhere else when Yaphyll was divining the SP. Or perhaps Shar simply allowed it because she has no problem with Thay at all. Heh, there are even Sharans in the nation. |
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