| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sholnfete |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 01:37:54
Manshoon, all I know about him is that he's with the Zhents and he's a powerful wizard. I'm interested because previously there was talk about most powerful beings in Faerun and Manshoon was listed there also I am reading a novel, Spellfire, and he is a character in it. i am merely curious about his history and the position he holds in the Realms, I don't even know if he is part of the Zhents anymore. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| althen artren |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 18:28:02
To give opinion what the tease that THO sent us,
I have to say another KoMD novel is on the way.
No, I don't have any special knowledge of what's going on.
Just a guess on what I seen and how I read the tea leaves. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 23:56:57
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Well, to be fair we don't know that he survived the Spellplague (at least, I don't think we know...). However, of all the holes I want to see exploited, it's the spells above ninth level. Any survivor of Netheril ought to know Mystra's limitations, and now that she's gone... All kinds of fun.
 I'd missed that one thanks to all the stuff that ticked me off. Of course, "spell level" as such no longer exists in 4E, so I guess the Weave had to go just for that alone. Still, it means no barrier to uberspells except by inconsistency... which means we'll see a barrier faster than we can say "inconsistency".
Returning to Manshoon: Wooly (and others), if you have a storyline continuing the Manshoon Wars past where it was unceremoniously swept under the rug for 3E, I'm very interested. 
I'd not really done much more than just ponder it... We knew, at the end of 2E, of about a dozen Manshoons that were still active. Considering that they'd all have to find some way around the "kill other clones!" compulsion, some could have (and I think Cloak & Dagger even mentions this) fled to points beyond Faerūn. Others could have altered themselves to be something other than a living Manshoon clone -- so there's so many possibilities. A spelljamming or plane-walking Manshoon would be possible -- or both. Manshoon changing himself to an elf or fey'ri or something would be possible. Manshoon becoming Womanshoon would be possible. Even finding remote places -- like somewhere deep within the Sea of Fallen Stars, or the Kara-Tur -- would be possible. There was simply too much possibility there to ignore, but that was exactly what Wizards did. It remains one of my major beefs about 3E.
I've been fleshing out a more specific plotline, following Steven and Ed's thoughts on the subject. Specifically, from Ed:-
quote:
"The multiple clones, hidden all over the Realms (El has threatened Manshoon in published Realmslore that he knows where they all are), each have the levels, memories, etc. they had when created . . . so some of them are of FAR less power than 'more modern' Manshoons (so killing Manshoon DOES harm him). Manshoon adds new clones from time to time, but what happened with the Manshoon Wars was that all (or almost all) of the clones were awakened at once."
In this instance, I've played up the fact that Manshoon has been generating new clones. Then I've shifted a number of them to various crystal spheres [thinking, "the Realms isn't big enough for all these Manshoons"], with one popping up among the Black Robes on Krynn, another disguised as a Guvner of the Fraternity of Order in Sigil, and, several others masquerading elsewhere across the multiverse. Most are focused primarily on becoming "the one true Manshoon" of Realmspace and, thus, plot and scheme accordingly. However, events in other crystal spheres, like the Second Catalcysm on Krynn and the Faction War in Sigil somewhat disrupted the plans of those clones, so I've had to plot alternate pathways of scheming and conquest for them.
That's about as far as I've taken it, but it needs more work. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 22:55:22
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Well, to be fair we don't know that he survived the Spellplague (at least, I don't think we know...). However, of all the holes I want to see exploited, it's the spells above ninth level. Any survivor of Netheril ought to know Mystra's limitations, and now that she's gone... All kinds of fun.
I'd missed that one thanks to all the stuff that ticked me off. Of course, "spell level" as such no longer exists in 4E, so I guess the Weave had to go just for that alone. Still, it means no barrier to uberspells except by inconsistency... which means we'll see a barrier faster than we can say "inconsistency".
Returning to Manshoon: Wooly (and others), if you have a storyline continuing the Manshoon Wars past where it was unceremoniously swept under the rug for 3E, I'm very interested.
I'd not really done much more than just ponder it... We knew, at the end of 2E, of about a dozen Manshoons that were still active. Considering that they'd all have to find some way around the "kill other clones!" compulsion, some could have (and I think Cloak & Dagger even mentions this) fled to points beyond Faerūn. Others could have altered themselves to be something other than a living Manshoon clone -- so there's so many possibilities. A spelljamming or plane-walking Manshoon would be possible -- or both. Manshoon changing himself to an elf or fey'ri or something would be possible. Manshoon becoming Womanshoon would be possible. Even finding remote places -- like somewhere deep within the Sea of Fallen Stars, or the Kara-Tur -- would be possible. There was simply too much possibility there to ignore, but that was exactly what Wizards did. It remains one of my major beefs about 3E. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 18:43:04
The 4E FRCG said that the Manshoon in Undermountain died during the Spellplague.  
The Manshoon that was in Zhentil Keep died fighting the big bad Shades.
The only one thats left PER FRCG is the Vampire Manshoon... 
Thats what Manshoon wants us to think IMO!  |
| Jakk |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 18:15:46
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Well, to be fair we don't know that he survived the Spellplague (at least, I don't think we know...). However, of all the holes I want to see exploited, it's the spells above ninth level. Any survivor of Netheril ought to know Mystra's limitations, and now that she's gone... All kinds of fun.
I'd missed that one thanks to all the stuff that ticked me off. Of course, "spell level" as such no longer exists in 4E, so I guess the Weave had to go just for that alone. Still, it means no barrier to uberspells except by inconsistency... which means we'll see a barrier faster than we can say "inconsistency".
Returning to Manshoon: Wooly (and others), if you have a storyline continuing the Manshoon Wars past where it was unceremoniously swept under the rug for 3E, I'm very interested. |
| Sandro |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 07:05:38
quote:
Speaking of Larloch: How could he have possibly survived the Spellplague, given what happened to Halruaa? Of course, one could ask the same question of Shade... or did they hide back in the Plane of Shadows while it became the Shadowfell? Holes one could drive a planet through... and did, apparently...
Well, to be fair we don't know that he survived the Spellplague (at least, I don't think we know...). However, of all the holes I want to see exploited, it's the spells above ninth level. Any survivor of Netheril ought to know Mystra's limitations, and now that she's gone... All kinds of fun. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 05:18:30
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Thanks. That was what I was wanting to know. I guess we can only hope that they choose to at least do something with the remaining vampire Manshoon. I suppose we could further hope that any such project will involve flashbacks to when he was still mortal or possibly to at least when there were still a few of him running around.
Of course I suppose the best bet is having Ed write a story about him where he is given control of when and where it is set.
If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend a reading of the "Knights of Myth Drannor" trilogy. It offers some perspectives on past exploits of Manshoon.
I really liked the scene of Manshoon with the Lady wearing only the Knee High boots... |
| Jakk |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 00:24:46
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Ah, Manshoon, second only to Larloch in the super-awesome world-shaking mage. And, of course, second only to him as the character that really deserves a novel but never got one. As for what he's up to now, I must say I quite like Ed's idea, "I prefer to think the REAL Manshoon is in hiding somewhere, watching his lesser selves operating, and awaiting his chance to strike at Fzoul at the same time as one of his clones does." It just adds that extra level of awesome to Manshoon, and certainly makes sense. Fzoul was a threat, but a fairly mortal one -- Manshoon saw that, retreated (causing all kind of chaos by releasing the clones), and then watched with glee as Fzoul fell with Zhentil Keep.
<chop>
Speaking of Larloch: How could he have possibly survived the Spellplague, given what happened to Halruaa? Of course, one could ask the same question of Shade... or did they hide back in the Plane of Shadows while it became the Shadowfell? Holes one could drive a planet through... and did, apparently...
Anyway, back to Manshoon: I like the idea that Halaster's soul wasn't shattered, and simply migrated into the Undermountain Manshoon, taking over his body completely. Of course, atm my group is playing in a Spellplague-free Realms until I can re-storyline the whole thing (great progress has been made, but there's a long way to go yet).
Sage Schend: I won't even ask, because I know it's not likely to happen, but it just seems horrific that all of this beautiful, ostensibly canon lore has been put together about Manshoon, Khelben, and so many others, never to see the light of day because of NDAs and material not seeing print. It has made me go all "X-Files" on the Realms; the truth is out there, but we'll never know it. 
That's all from me on this matter. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 23:55:06
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Thanks. That was what I was wanting to know. I guess we can only hope that they choose to at least do something with the remaining vampire Manshoon. I suppose we could further hope that any such project will involve flashbacks to when he was still mortal or possibly to at least when there were still a few of him running around.
Of course I suppose the best bet is having Ed write a story about him where he is given control of when and where it is set.
If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend a reading of the "Knights of Myth Drannor" trilogy. It offers some perspectives on past exploits of Manshoon. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 22:35:07
Teasing us again THO? |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 19:31:40
To which I can only respond:
Bwooohahahahahaha!
love,
THO |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:33:32
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It's been attempted before, as I recall. Along with a petition on the Wizards message boards. But, like a novel set to detailing about Bane's return, WotC have said that it's highly unlikely. And given that, aside from RAS and Ed, most all FR fiction will be set after the Spellplague, we're unlikely to see any future treatment of the old Manshoon unless it's by the hand of the Ol' Bearded One himself.
Thanks. That was what I was wanting to know. I guess we can only hope that they choose to at least do something with the remaining vampire Manshoon. I suppose we could further hope that any such project will involve flashbacks to when he was still mortal or possibly to at least when there were still a few of him running around.
Of course I suppose the best bet is having Ed write a story about him where he is given control of when and where it is set. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 06:56:28
I do know one thing. I have started to read up on him.
The funny thing is, in about 3 days another topic will catch my fancy, and off on another rabbit trail I will go. |
| Sandro |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 06:36:22
quote:
And given that, aside from RAS and Ed, most all FR fiction will be set after the Spellplague, we're unlikely to see any future treatment of the old Manshoon unless it's by the hand of the Ol' Bearded One himself.
At this point, I'd be happy just to see one Orbakh and what he's up to after being chased out of Westgate. It doesn't seem entirely impossible, especially since he's actually mentioned (and statted out) in the FRCG.
As for old Manshoon, aye, I'd quite suspect that opportunity's been lost, what with Wizards' focus on the present. Ah well, once can always dream. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 04:14:01
Maybe Manshoon will be in, or at least mentioned in "Elminster Must Die".
I just hope the main baddies in "Elminster Must Die" wont be Shades.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 04:02:50
It's been attempted before, as I recall. Along with a petition on the Wizards message boards. But, like a novel set to detailing about Bane's return, WotC have said that it's highly unlikely. And given that, aside from RAS and Ed, most all FR fiction will be set after the Spellplague, we're unlikely to see any future treatment of the old Manshoon unless it's by the hand of the Ol' Bearded One himself.
|
| Tyrant |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 03:47:26
Is there any way to let WotC know we want a book about Manshoon (and presumably which Manshoon)? Will writing letters help at all?
|
| Sandro |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 19:17:13
Hell, I'd read one about Manshoon's daily eating habits. He's just way too awesome to exist only in sourcebooks.
Only Orbakh's left, now, so I suppose we have to hedge our bets with him. Doesn't seem impossible that he could get a novel, especially since he's never been used by anyone, and he's one of the very, very few characters to actually be mentioned in the FRCG. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 15:35:59
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
I know I would read a Manshoon novel.
Set during the Manshoon Wars!
I've suggested this as an entire series -- each book could follow a different clone. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 11:45:16
I know I would read a Manshoon novel.
Set during the Manshoon Wars! |
| Sandro |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 08:40:52
Ah, Manshoon, second only to Larloch in the super-awesome world-shaking mage. And, of course, second only to him as the character that really deserves a novel but never got one. As for what he's up to now, I must say I quite like Ed's idea, "I prefer to think the REAL Manshoon is in hiding somewhere, watching his lesser selves operating, and awaiting his chance to strike at Fzoul at the same time as one of his clones does." It just adds that extra level of awesome to Manshoon, and certainly makes sense. Fzoul was a threat, but a fairly mortal one -- Manshoon saw that, retreated (causing all kind of chaos by releasing the clones), and then watched with glee as Fzoul fell with Zhentil Keep.
He seems intelligent enough to me to recognize the obvious benefits of immortality -- including the ability to act in the background, slowly manipulating people to do what you want rather than trying to get it done in a set amount of time. So the Zhentarim's weak now -- will be it still be weak in 100 years? 200? Let people think they know what he's up to, and he's got the perfect cover. Besides, stasis clones are old -- I wouldn't put it past Manshoon to have something entirely new up his sleeve by now.
Of course, that's just how I see it. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 05:05:35
The "anything else" is easy: whatever you want, and have the time and creative energy to come up with on your own (or find in these wonderful scrolls). Because that's all we have now.
Edit: Of course, we're still pretty well off for all of that, thanks to Ed and THO. I'm not about to end another post on a gloomy note. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 08:37:47
So what do we know about Manshoon in 1479 DR?
His Vampire clone is still around, anything else? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 02:36:41
True.
They just went from the beta to the Alpha of the DDi, and the ONLY difference I have noticed is that my PM screen now brings me through that ugly Gleemax server.
Still NO gaming table, or any of the 'cool' features we are being promised... sometime down the road... after subscribing... 
I'm still waiting for the fnished version of that CD that came with my 3.0 DMG and PHB.
Anyway, Manshoon has SO much potential as a villain that I hope they do something clever with him in 4e. He never seemed to grow beyond how Ed originaly presented him, and thats a shame. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 02:07:07
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Damn Shame much of Ed's 50,000 words got cut, but I saw that coming. Of course, we could always pay for the DDi, where they will feed it to us in bits and drabs.
Even that seems like a "maybe" as far as I can tell (due to past experience). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 00:11:58
Great Find Wooly, thanks for the info.
When I first heard about 4e, I had decide to move my timeline forward only a decade or so, not using 4e FR, but using the 4e rules. As I worked out what happened to various NPCs after the Spellpague hit (briefly), I pegged manshoon as a cross between Dr. Doom and Edward from FMA. Basicaly, he was performing a ritual while the magic went wild, and his soul (I suppose he does have one) got 'fused' to his armor. So basically, he is a Lich (of sorts), and hs Armor had become his phylactory. Parts of his physical form also became fused with the armor (he was basically 'cooked' inside of it), so he cannot remove it, nor would he want to (it would be pretty gross).
I pictured him becoming something akin to a half-Golem, and give him a few characteristics of Warforged in the mix.
He also had a daughter, who didn't know she was his daughter, who would work against his schemes. He was aware of the conection, but would avoid killing her (weather he has feelings, or he just likes to keep some of his living DNA walking around I haven't decided). It sounds like that other WotC poster had similar ideas, using a clone.
I was trying to project all of the current plots and intrigues forward 10-20 years (my campaign was already set ahead 10), and that was justone of the thins I imagined in the new post-spellplague world of 1395 DR.
Since then, I have decided not to move forward with FR, so that plot goes unused, but I figured I'd post it here in case anyone wanted to use it.
Hey! I just realized... I turned Manshoon into Aniken Skywalker! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 21:09:11
There was a cursed item in 2E... From the 2E DMG:
quote:
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity: This broad leather band appears to be a normal belt, but, if buckled on, it will immediately change the sex of its wearer to the opposite gender. It then loses all power. There is no sure way to restore the character's original sex, although there is a 50% chance a wish might do so, and a powerful being can alter the situation. In other words, it takes a godlike creature to set matters aright with certainty. Ten percent of these girdles actually remove all sex from the wearer.
I'd imagine a variant polymorph could do it, too. Or a wish. Or maybe some nifty arcane ritual, or a Netherese artifact...
There are also the anime methods, like a fall into the wrong pond at Jusenkyo. An anime RPG I have includes an item called a Boy/Girl Gun.
On the WotC boards, I once saw where someone had made a Manshoon clone both female and good-aligned. I want to say the name of the clone was Mashiara Penitent. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 17:00:23
Anything created by people outside of the curerent team is on the chopping block these days - obviuosly they feel only their lore is 'good enough'.
Damn Shame much of Ed's 50,000 words got cut, but I saw that coming. Of course, we could always pay for the DDi, where they will feed it to us in bits and drabs.
Anyhow, thats neither here nor there, and this is the wrong place for it.
On Topic:
Is there any spell/device/effect that can alter someone's sex, as was done by Mystra to El?
I've always likened the 'Manshoon Wars' to Marvel Comics "Cross-time Kangs", and I got a kick out of the fact that several 'alternate kangs' were female.
So, imagine if you will, some 'skanky' wizard coming across a Manshoon clone, and altering it to become his 'sex slave'. then the stasis-effect screws up (as per canon), and the thing 'awakens' and kills it's 'master' (slowly... )
Can you imagine how upset Manshoon would be to find himself stuck in a female body? He's always struck me as abit of a 'male-chauvenist pig', so it would be interesting.
Also, calling him 'WoManshoon' just tickles me to death.
Of course, we already have a 'shoon' walking around in a 'hot girl's' body, so that might be a bit redundant.
So, is there anything in canon I can say happened to change his sex, or do I just have to pull a DM's caveat here?  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 14:31:17
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Hehehehehehehehe.....
So glad that my little plot still obfuscates and generates ideas ten years later....
Steven
whose favorite Cloak & Dagger image of the Manshoon Wars is the one in Waterdeep with Laeral, Kyriani, and two Manshoons....I really should have statted up that "lion-shaped-body-shield" spell as it was a fun visual variant.....
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/CnD/38.jpg
Part of the reason I still love that book is because the Manshoon Wars and the Harper Schism were simply wonderful ideas, with years' worth of potential fun in each one. And then WotC pissed me off by nixing the first one in the 3E FRCS, and we've found out that the second one, after being left in Limbo for most of 3E, is being kicked to the curb in 4E. Not running with such great ideas is part of what really makes me question the way decisions are being made there. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 14:10:15
Hehehehehehehehe.....
So glad that my little plot still obfuscates and generates ideas ten years later....
Steven
whose favorite Cloak & Dagger image of the Manshoon Wars is the one in Waterdeep with Laeral, Kyriani, and two Manshoons....I really should have statted up that "lion-shaped-body-shield" spell as it was a fun visual variant..... |
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