| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alparon |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 10:46:49
as we all know in Time of Troubles Torm kills Bane but he is killed himself also...
and at the end he gains his godhood again...
now here is the question:
in Prince of Lies Cyric refers Torm as a Demigod
did Torm's status decrease from a lesser power to a demigod for a consequence of his ressurection by Ao?
or is it just a silly mistake that the Turkish translators made |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 19:47:47
Prior to the Time of Troubles (and for years afterward), Torm was a demipower of the Realms. It was not until after his realm of Trueheart was created in the outer planes (in 1365, see Faiths and Avatars, page 163) that Torm can be considered a lesser power.
Faiths and Avatars says, "Tyr rewarded his faithful paladin with elevation to lesser power status." Faiths and Pantheons says, "the Maimed Deity elevated him to lesser deity status." Ao did not promote Torm; Tyr did, following the Time of Troubles. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 19:12:30
Given that Torm was a Mortal that ascended to godhood by serving Tyr, himself a "recent" diety in the Realms, I'm sure when he was alive Cyric always heard of Torm referred to as a demigod. I doubt that many common people know the difference betweeen demi/lesser/intermediate/greater powers, and while I am sure that Cyric clearly knows he is more powerful than Torm at the time (especially in his own realm), I don't picture him putting on one of those power meter eye pieces from Dragon Ball Z and saying "you only have 6 divine ranks, while I have 18!" (Don't respond to the numbers, you know what I mean and I didn't want to look it up).
I don't think it was a major issue. Cyric may have been snide with him becuase he did only recently "climb the ladder" plus I have a feeling that many gods who work for greater gods are seen as Demipowers until they truly make a name for themselves.
As to the worthiness of Kelemvor to the Lord of the Dead, much like the Goddess of Magic, it seems that the Lord of the Dead has more job specific responsibilities than a god that is just there to champion one goal or another, and it may not always be a boon to have the title. Kelemvor as much work as Cyric did to recover the Tablets of Fate, and Cyric backstabbed him. I have to wonder that if Kelemvor were still alive when the tablets had been presented that he might have had the job from the get go. |
| Alparon |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:29:10
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
. . . while the Faithless simply have a bleak existence. They don't actively suffer, but they certainly don't prosper, either. They simply exist.
Well, that is what the Wall of the Faithless is for . . . 
my problem with kelemvoreheeh he doesn't deserve to be a god he only has (even less effort) than Gwydion or even Mask...
after reading the "True life of Cyric" to Cyric, he gains his sanity right(i haven't read the Crucible) the thing is Mask also read the Cyrnishad and he lost his sanity also becoming a servant to Cyric. After reading the "True Life" doesn't Mask gain his sanity and his godhood also. I think he deserves a place in the Hades.
also why does a god favor the ones who doesn't even believe that he exist(the problem lies here)????
or maybe this is the very essence of being Lord of the Dead; being Lord of the Deviants/unfaithful
wall of the faithless was the best idea that Myrkull came up with |
| Lady Kazandra |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:02:31
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
. . . while the Faithless simply have a bleak existence. They don't actively suffer, but they certainly don't prosper, either. They simply exist.
Well, that is what the Wall of the Faithless is for . . .
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 23:03:11
quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
bah... the purple metal box deserved it anyway
long live cyric
i wish kelemvor is deposed, the disbelievers doesn't deserve a fair treatment, one day everyone will understand it
really, what does kelemvor do to the ones who are in the land of the dead he doesn't punish them instantly thats for sure
What do you have against Kelemvor? What's wrong with treating someone fairly, despite their transgressions?
As I recall (I'm not at home at the moment), the False suffer for their actions, while the Faithless simply have a bleak existence. They don't actively suffer, but they certainly don't prosper, either. They simply exist. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 22:54:52
quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
See I thought Torm was a lesser power both pre and post ToT.Him being ressurrected was his reward by Ao for his fight against Bane.I don't think he was "promoted".
In Faiths & Patheons, it's said that Ao promoted him to the status of Lesser Deity for his sacrifice against Bane. |
| VEDSICA |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 18:48:19
See I thought Torm was a lesser power both pre and post ToT.Him being ressurrected was his reward by Ao for his fight against Bane.I don't think he was "promoted". |
| Lauzoril |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 18:42:15
From what I've read, Torm was still a Demi Power in pre-ToT Faerun. Because Torm's home was still Prime Material Plane when he died against Bane, Ao resurrected Torm because of that and as a reward for slaying Bane, becoming a Lesser Power in the process.
|
| Alparon |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 18:33:15
bah... the purple metal box deserved it anyway
long live cyric
i wish kelemvor is deposed, the disbelievers doesn't deserve a fair treatment, one day everyone will understand it
really, what does kelemvor do to the ones who are in the land of the dead he doesn't punish them instantly thats for sure |
| Bakra |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 16:08:47
Cyric was insulting Torm. Well, that is how I read it anyway. |
| Hymn |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 11:08:36
 , I would. I always prefer the twisted and evil over good or at least find it a lot more interesting for some reason. We have to think of the balance here as well. There are way to many "good" novels out there and to few "bad" Hail evil. |
| Alparon |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 09:04:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And stuff in novels doesn't always square with the rules...
eeheh... then anyone can write a novel with neglecting the rulez...
that would be me
anyone fancied a novel for the life of Sarevok or other villains? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 04:59:04
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I think the promotion to lesser deity came in 3E.
If we go with that, why would a 2E product have him listed as lesser? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 00:52:31
And stuff in novels doesn't always square with the rules... |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 19:21:37
It's because when Prince of Lies was written, it was still in like 2E rules. I think the promotion to lesser deity came in 3E. Besides, it was supposed to be a reward, as Ao respected Torm's bravery against Bane. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 14:49:23
quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
in Prince of Lies Cyric refers Torm as a Demigod
did Torm's status decrease from a lesser power to a demigod for a consequence of his ressurection by Ao?
Both Faiths & Avatars and the FRCS have Torm as a Lesser Power. Granted, that rank is, well, lesser, but it is still higher than a demipower. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 14:10:43
If memory serves me correctly, what happened was that Ao felt that Torm had been a good boy in giving Bane the send-off and promoted him as a reward. |
