| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 07:23:21
Richard Baker included a Chaond in his FR Dungeon module Prison of the Flamebringer so we know they are present in the FR but they werent included in the PGTF
So what Regions and Regional and racial feats do you think Chaond and Zenythri have in the FR? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 11:58:02
Got one
Shatterfloor its a 3rd level wizard spell in Magic of Faerun |
| warlockco |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 10:55:33
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I guess Keen edge could considered a greater version of Truestrike, Im not sure what a 3rd spell which is a greater version of Shatter would be?
Sonicball? i.e. a Fireball that is sonic instead of fire. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 10:23:22
You can give me hand if you want
Im working on racial feat for Zenythri and Chaond and Im trying reverse engineer some of the racial feats for Aasamars and Tieflings
What do you reckon for a Zenythri or Chaond version of Light to Daylight/Deepening Darkness what would be the benefit?
I guess Keen edge could considered a greater version of Truestrike, Im not sure what a 3rd spell which is a greater version of Shatter would be?
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 10:17:33
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I started writing an article today for Candlekeep on the Abbey of the Martyred goddess
That sounds interesting. As I recall, it's been detailed previously, but I cannot remember where.
It shouldnt be I made it up!
I think your thinking of one of Ilmaters abbeys I seem to recall one them has the word Martyred in it.
The article will also include a new Monk order, The Order of the Arcane fist
That's the one...  .
I'm anticipating your work now, even moreso... since it's not something we've seen or read about before. Any hints or tidbits about the Order to keep us satisfied until you're finished?
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 10:12:16
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I started writing an article today for Candlekeep on the Abbey of the Martyred goddess
That sounds interesting. As I recall, it's been detailed previously, but I cannot remember where.
It shouldnt be I made it up!
I think your thinking of one of Ilmaters abbeys I seem to recall one them has the word Martyred in it.
The article will also include a new Monk order, The Order of the Arcane fist
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 10:07:55
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I started writing an article today for Candlekeep on the Abbey of the Martyred goddess
That sounds interesting. As I recall, it's been detailed previously, but I cannot remember where.
|
| Dargoth |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 09:43:10
I started writing an article today for Candlekeep on the Abbey of the Martyred goddess |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 09:41:15
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Not to mention that some scholars believe the Slaadi to be the remnants of the lost Batrachi creator race.
I'd not heard about that theory. Tell me more...
|
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 19:15:09
quote:
I don't even want to think about the consequences that would come with such a situation... especially if more modrons somehow gained this ability. Imagine the changes that would occur planar wide if suddenly the all the modrons in Mechanus suddenly acquired the ability to reproduce.
The Blood War would be the least of everyone's concerns...
Hah, Indeed! I can just imagine about a million modrons marching into the midst of a raging Blood War battle with a gleam in their eyes and smiles on their faces... leaving the whole lot of the surprised fiends some 9 months later with little half-modron/half-baatezu or half-tanar'ri bundles of joy, protesting ashamedly to their curious, demon prince and arch-devil superiors: "I don't want to talk about it!" 
quote:
You'd be surprised by some of the wild theories about slaadi origins that have been put forth from time to time. Everything from Far Realm incursions, to the diabolical manipulations of the 'loths....
Not to mention that some scholars believe the Slaadi to be the remnants of the lost Batrachi creator race. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 14:12:39
quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually there is, or rather, there was.
I did not know this. Did a half-slaad ever appear in print?
In an official capacity, no... unfortunately  . That would have been something to see...  . As I recall, there were several varieties posted on both the (old) PS Mailing List, and the first Mimir.net.
quote:
quote:
But again, the nature of the Spawning Stone might suggest otherwise.
This is another excellent direction. Anything slaadi is possible with the Spawning Stone. Did you read about all those orange variant slaadi from a PS adventure years ago? Took the Spawning Stone to a new level. Fascinating stuff!
In fact I did. I continued some elements of that adventure (and the orange slaadi) in a hook I wrote for Planewalker.com.
quote:
quote:
Maybe not in the traditional sense, but who really knows what happens in the Infinity Pool  .
If it was ever going to happen, it probably would have happened when Orcus assumed control of the modrons for that year of the Great Modron March. He could have even ordered them to "Go forth and be fertile!"
Ooh... I love it. I'm doing this the next time I run the Great Modron March. Thanks .
quote:
I never thought of the Infinity Pool in the way you suggest but now that you mention it, I could see it as a place for modrons to get an upgrade to become fully functional for such purposes.
I wrote a piece for Planewalker.com that painted the Infinity Pool in a light similar to that of the Source, that the Believers... believe in as part of their philosophy. It was meant to be an alternate theory that suggested how the modrons progressed through the hierarchy set by Primus.
I think it's still on there.
quote:
All this modron talk also brings to mind a hierarch rogue named (if memory serves) Secundus who lives on one of the Upper Planes. He/She/It would certainly have the capability (and possibly the desire) to procreate.
I don't even want to think about the consequences that would come with such a situation... especially if more modrons somehow gained this ability. Imagine the changes that would occur planar wide if suddenly the all the modrons in Mechanus suddenly acquired the ability to reproduce.
The Blood War would be the least of everyone's concerns... .
quote:
quote:
I've often run my planar campaigns in much the same way. Some planes have greater effects though, especially on those creatures who are directly opposed, morally, to the alignment of the plane.
This alignment of the PC is a great idea! You should write a Dragon article on it.
Thanks. I might just do that. Even if it doesn't get accepted, I'll submit it to Planewalker.com.
quote:
quote:
It has been speculated that the slaadi are actually the nature of Limbo made manifest.
I've always felt that way. Where else would they have originated from?
You'd be surprised by some of the wild theories about slaadi origins that have been put forth from time to time. Everything from Far Realm incursions, to the diabolical manipulations of the 'loths....
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 11:18:09
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
An orcish one, ne?
F&A said one from the orc, gnoll, or giant pantheon. Did Faiths and Pantheons provide any further details?
More detail in Faiths & Pantheons? This is a joke, right? 
F&P doesn't even mention his activities in the ToT. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 05:32:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
An orcish one, ne?
F&A said one from the orc, gnoll, or giant pantheon. Did Faiths and Pantheons provide any further details? |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 05:27:45
Now the real question is what Racial feats could a Chaond or Zenythri have?
I guess we could get a Lawful/Chaotic Bloodline feat fairly easily by using the Fiendish/Celestial bloodline feats as a base
Lawful Bloodline
Prerequisites: Zenythri, base Fortitude, reflex and Will saves +1
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast protection from Chaos 3 times per day and Command once per day as spell like abilities with a caster level equal to your caster level
Chaotic Bloodline
Prerequisites: Chaond, base Fortitude, reflex and Will saves +1
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast protection from Law 3 times per day and ?????? (maybe Doom) once per day as spell like abilities with a caster level equal to your caster level
Im not sure how you would do a Zenythri or Chaond version for Light to Daylight/Deepening Darkness
I guess Keen edge could considered a greater version of Truestrike not sure what a 3rd spell which is a greater version of Shatter would be.
Improved energy can be used as printed for Chaond and Zenythri
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 05:26:53
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I believe Ibrandul was slain under Waterdeep somewhere.
Yep, by Shar. You have a good memory for the killing of deities. Hobby?
Hey, I've got to use that stuff betwixt my ears for something...
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shaundakul killed some deity in Myth Drannor...
Yes, he was believed to have killed a demipower if I recall correctly.
An orcish one, ne? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 04:28:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I believe Ibrandul was slain under Waterdeep somewhere.
Yep, by Shar. You have a good memory for the killing of deities. Hobby?
quote:
Shaundakul killed some deity in Myth Drannor...
Yes, he was believed to have killed a demipower if I recall correctly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 23:59:41
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I have a couple of ideas
My Initial idea was to cover the creation of Chaond and Zenythri by saying that when a Demon, Devil, Archon/Angels and Eladrin breed they pass on ONE Aspect of there alignment physiology to there off spring
Devils: Tieflings and Zenythri
Demons: Tiefling and Chaond
Archons/Angels: Zenythri and Aasimars
Eladrin: Chaond and Aasimars
Yuggoloths and Guardinal can only produce Tieflings and Aasimars
The other idea I had tht was inspired by Ed Bs origional post was that there has been an increase in the number of Planetouched in the realms due to the Time of Troubles. Ed suggested that exposure to the Planes or a gate to a plane could alter someone in that any children they have are planetouched. What I was thinking is why not take this a step furthur and tie it into the Realms. If living next to a gate can do it what might happan if your living in the shadow of dead god ie Tantras, northern Cormyr, Waterdeep etc
Tantras for example may have seen a number of children born after the Time of Troubles with strange physiology
Aasimars: From Torm
Zenythri: From Bane and Torm (Both are Lawful)
Tieflings: Bane
There could also be Zenythri in Northern Cormyr from the death of the origional Mystra...
I feel another Candlekeep article coming on...
Man, that is a really good idea...
I believe Ibrandul was slain under Waterdeep somewhere. Shaundakul killed some deity in Myth Drannor... Nobanion was hunting someone (I'm not home, so I can't check) during the ToT, but I don't recall if that deity was slain or not (I want to say it was Malar, so that would be a no). |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 21:54:24
I have a couple of ideas
My Initial idea was to cover the creation of Chaond and Zenythri by saying that when a Demon, Devil, Archon/Angels and Eladrin breed they pass on ONE Aspect of there alignment physiology to there off spring
Devils: Tieflings and Zenythri
Demons: Tiefling and Chaond
Archons/Angels: Zenythri and Aasimars
Eladrin: Chaond and Aasimars
Yuggoloths and Guardinal can only produce Tieflings and Aasimars
The other idea I had tht was inspired by Ed Bs origional post was that there has been an increase in the number of Planetouched in the realms due to the Time of Troubles. Ed suggested that exposure to the Planes or a gate to a plane could alter someone in that any children they have are planetouched. What I was thinking is why not take this a step furthur and tie it into the Realms. If living next to a gate can do it what might happan if your living in the shadow of dead god ie Tantras, northern Cormyr, Waterdeep etc
Tantras for example may have seen a number of children born after the Time of Troubles with strange physiology
Aasimars: From Torm
Zenythri: From Bane and Torm (Both are Lawful)
Tieflings: Bane
There could also be Zenythri in Northern Cormyr from the death of the origional Mystra...
I feel another Candlekeep article coming on...
|
| edbonny |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 15:16:54
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually there is, or rather, there was.
I did not know this. Did a half-slaad ever appear in print?
quote:
But again, the nature of the Spawning Stone might suggest otherwise.
This is another excellent direction. Anything slaadi is possible with the Spawning Stone. Did you read about all those orange variant slaadi from a PS adventure years ago? Took the Spawning Stone to a new level. Fascinating stuff!
quote:
Maybe not in the traditional sense, but who really knows what happens in the Infinity Pool .
If it was ever going to happen, it probably would have happened when Orcus assumed control of the modrons for that year of the Great Modron March. He could have even ordered them to "Go forth and be fertile!"
I never thought of the Infinity Pool in the way you suggest but now that you mention it, I could see it as a place for modrons to get an upgrade to become fully functional for such purposes.
All this modron talk also brings to mind a hierarch rogue named (if memory serves) Secundus who lives on one of the Upper Planes. He/She/It would certainly have the capability (and possibly the desire) to procreate.
quote:
I've often run my planar campaigns in much the same way. Some planes have greater effects though, especially on those creatures who are directly opposed, morally, to the alignment of the plane.
This alignment of the PC is a great idea! You should write a Dragon article on it.
quote:
It has been speculated that the slaadi are actually the nature of Limbo made manifest.
I've always felt that way. Where else would they have originated from?
- Ed
|
| edbonny |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 14:56:34
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Hmmm interesting idea....Thanks Ed
Any ideas what starting Regions would be suitable for the Chaond and Zenythri?
Definitely you would find chaonds and zenythri native to Mulhorand and Unther (being descended from the chaotic and lawful gods that once dwelt there). That would be where the majority of those 2 planetouched would be found anywhere on Faerun.
After that, I could see perhaps one or two of each kind turning up in Thay as a result of the Red Wizards' love of cross-breeding practices. I don't see them anywhere else though without some revelation linking a region to a lawful or chaotic planar influence.
- Ed |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 14:07:43
quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
When I wrote up the zenythri and chaond for the MM2, there was this quandary of parentage.
Slaadi, being the chaotic things they are, either follow rules of their own making or no rules at all -- so a desire to mate with other species was not something I considered a problem. It was simply one of a thousand things an impulsive slaad could do at any given moment.
I rather like that. Given the nature of Limbo, and the nature of the Slaadi, regardless of whether reproduction is impossible, it's simply possible because of who they are and where they live. It fits the slaadi conception so well.
quote:
Mechanics sort of become the stickler here though. Are slaadi equipped for the job? The answer seems obvious - no. There are no half-slaad running around (at least not yet).
Actually there is, or rather, there was.
quote:
The blue and red slaadi do reproduce but with an infectious attack that only results in another slaad. But with slaadi of green rank and higher, there is the potential to mate with another specied. All those slaadi have the ability to change shape (something which grants the slaad the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of the form it takes AND also causes the slaad to lose its own slaadi natural weapons/extraordinary attacks - in other words, the slaad physically resembles its new form and becomes physically functional as if it were a member of its new form). I take this to mean that they can also reproduce with the race they chose to take the shape of.
I can see that. But again, the nature of the Spawning Stone might suggest otherwise.
quote:
I really don't think any modron could mate or even would mate with anything ever (maybe a rogue modron who can shapechange but that just seems very implausible all around.
Maybe not in the traditional sense, but who really knows what happens in the Infinity Pool .
quote:
I have always felt since way back in the days of DnD 1e, that planar eneregies (that is the alignment-based planar presence one feels when arriving on a plane - utter evil, despair, etc.) could change the nature of any creature simply by being exposed to it.
I've often run my planar campaigns in much the same way. Some planes have greater effects though, especially on those creatures who are directly opposed, morally, to the alignment of the plane.
quote:
This is most evident in the 1e creature, the bodak, who only comes into existence as a result of spending too much time on the Abyss. The bodak got my mental gears grinding as I thought of other possibilities of how this energy might manifest itself.
It has been speculated that the slaadi are actually the nature of Limbo made manifest.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 05:20:42
quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
When I wrote up the zenythri and chaond for the MM2, there was this quandary of parentage.
...
There are a few points I want to discuss with you Mr Bonny, about these details you just posted.
Unfortunately, they will now have to wait, as I am short on time.
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 19 Jan 2005 : 22:34:39
Hmmm interesting idea....Thanks Ed
Any ideas what starting Regions would be suitable for the Chaond and Zenythri?
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| edbonny |
Posted - 19 Jan 2005 : 14:41:20
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The modules set in the Silver marches
Incidently how do you get a Zenythri? Demons, Slaads and Celestials and Devils are flesh and blood and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
When I wrote up the zenythri and chaond for the MM2, there was this quandary of parentage.
Slaadi, being the chaotic things they are, either follow rules of their own making or no rules at all -- so a desire to mate with other species was not something I considered a problem. It was simply one of a thousand things an impulsive slaad could do at any given moment. Mechanics sort of become the stickler here though. Are slaadi equipped for the job? The answer seems obvious - no. There are no half-slaad running around (at least not yet). The blue and red slaadi do reproduce but with an infectious attack that only results in another slaad. But with slaadi of green rank and higher, there is the potential to mate with another specied. All those slaadi have the ability to change shape (something which grants the slaad the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of the form it takes AND also causes the slaad to lose its own slaadi natural weapons/extraordinary attacks - in other words, the slaad physically resembles its new form and becomes physically functional as if it were a member of its new form). I take this to mean that they can also reproduce with the race they chose to take the shape of. Here is where I thought that chaonds were most likely to find their ancestry. I had originally wanted to make them as a free-spririted, fey-like creature of whimsy but the powers at Wizards thought it more appropriate to design a chaotic planetouched race around the anarchic template from the Manual of the Planes.
As far as zenythri go, this is even more of a problem. They can be loosely associated with the mercane (zenythri are purple, too), but the mercane are not really the lawful neutral icons of mechanus. I really don't think any modron could mate or even would mate with anything ever (maybe a rogue modron who can shapechange but that just seems very implausible all around. I use the below theory to explain these lawful planetouched.
I have always felt since way back in the days of DnD 1e, that planar eneregies (that is the alignment-based planar presence one feels when arriving on a plane - utter evil, despair, etc.) could change the nature of any creature simply by being exposed to it. This is most evident in the 1e creature, the bodak, who only comes into existence as a result of spending too much time on the Abyss. The bodak got my mental gears grinding as I thought of other possibilities of how this energy might manifest itself. When planescape brought us the planetouched, it came to me that one did not always need to have fiendish or celestial ancestry to be born a planetouched. What if an ancestor simply spent a lot exposed to planar energies and these energies manifested one day in the ancestor's children, grandchildren, etc. A visit to the planes could be the culprit here as could exposure to portal seepage.
Imagine a barbarian tribe in Narfell who relocate their camp above a forgotten, buried portal to the Abyss. The ancient portal, created during the height of the Narfell Empire, has decayed and leaks a terrible Abyssal energy. 9 months+ later, the camp begins experiencing the birth of tiefling children born to 2 human parents. This brings in a lot of good roleplaying opportunities: Are these tiefling babies considered cursed and left on a hill top to die? Considered a blessing and raised as part of the tribe? Disguised by the parents and raised as a human? Sold off as slaves? What if it is the tribal chief's baby who sees some sort of sybolism in his tiefling baby son? The possibilities are endless.
- Ed
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| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 04:19:28
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
This really depends on the type of form that the slaadi take. Remember, just because all slaadi have a toad-like appearance, does no mean they are the only slaadi types. Truth is, the Spawning Stone can create slaadi of any type. In fact, there may be slaadi forms that mortals simply have not seen, or have assigned a different name to them entirely...
Yep and also the Death and Gray Slaadi also tend to have Character classes, and some of them take Spellcasting classes so could use magic to change their form.
Actually, most slaadi can take character classes. As I recall, there was once a slaad cleric mentioned somewhere, although who or what he truly worshipped... was left open for debate . It was my theory that he worshipped pure chaos itself, a concept rather than a deity.
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| warlockco |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 20:05:59
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
This really depends on the type of form that the slaadi take. Remember, just because all slaadi have a toad-like appearance, does no mean they are the only slaadi types. Truth is, the Spawning Stone can create slaadi of any type. In fact, there may be slaadi forms that mortals simply have not seen, or have assigned a different name to them entirely...
Yep and also the Death and Gray Slaadi also tend to have Character classes, and some of them take Spellcasting classes so could use magic to change their form. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 11:02:57
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The only Outsider who might have the "ability" breed is the Merchane but from their write up I get the impression that they would breed with non Merchane
Traditionally, the Arcane/Mercane do not breed. It's not quite known how they reproduce, if at all. Quite simply, because they are sexless. There has also never been a recorded instance where any mortal has seen a juvenile arcane, or an elderly one.
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 09:49:44
Well it would seem our Chaond and Zenythri friends are in big trouble as there arent any Lawful and Chaotic planar creatures that can spawn them due the fact they lack genitialia
Inevitables are machines and slaads dont have sex when they breed
The only Outsider who might have the "ability" breed is the Merchane but from their write up I get the impression that they would breed with non Merchane
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| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 08:48:01
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
This is normally the Sage's area of expertise . . . but I'll try my hand at this. Fiends, the Slaadi, and the Celestials are not truly flesh and blood creatures. Nearly all fiends are in some way derived from the material of the Abyss and the Nine Hells, there's very little "flesh and blood" involved. Slaad are manifestations of the chaotic soup in Limbo brought into being by the Spawning Stone, among other things.
That's pretty much accurate, although there have been instances in the past where celestials have been seen to be "actual" flesh and blood creatures. As I recall, an archon was once made to "bleed" in order to forge an opening for a portal in the Abyss.
quote:
...and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
quote:
Again, not entirely true. Slaadi do not "breed" with mortals. Most slaadi forms reproduce by injecting an egg-pellet into an opponent's body. This egg-pellet slowly moves through the unwitting victim's body until it reaches the chest cavity whereupon it begins it's gestation period. After three months, and after a baby slaad has formed, it eats its way out of the victim's body, killing it.
This really depends on the type of form that the slaadi take. Remember, just because all slaadi have a toad-like appearance, does no mean they are the only slaadi types. Truth is, the Spawning Stone can create slaadi of any type. In fact, there may be slaadi forms that mortals simply have not seen, or have assigned a different name to them entirely...
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| Lady Kazandra |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 05:55:24
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
I think Eltab is supposed to be one of the featured Arch-Fiends in Champions of Ruin. I'll have to dig through the Ask Rich Baker thread on the WotC boards to see who and who isn't in there again 
Was way too much garbage and chaff to shift through.
But I'm fairly certain he did say Eltab and Malkizid would be featured. Fire Knife Assassin is not. And Tyranaxus and the other Lost Gods will not be featured. Beyond that I think it is just guestwork yet. Sides I think Champions of Ruin is for the later part of the year, so maybe they will add them.
It's a shame the other Lost Gods likely won't be included, however hearing about the possibility for Eltab and Malkizid has certainly changed my opinion on this work.
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| warlockco |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 03:29:11
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
I think Eltab is supposed to be one of the featured Arch-Fiends in Champions of Ruin. I'll have to dig through the Ask Rich Baker thread on the WotC boards to see who and who isn't in there again
Was way too much garbage and chaff to shift through.
But I'm fairly certain he did say Eltab and Malkizid would be featured. Fire Knife Assassin is not. And Tyranaxus and the other Lost Gods will not be featured. Beyond that I think it is just guestwork yet. Sides I think Champions of Ruin is for the later part of the year, so maybe they will add them. |
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