| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gellion |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 05:59:07
Well, I cant quite explain it, but my interest in the realms is almost gone. The entire world just seems so bland and dull now. I have probably been a realms fan for nearly two years bow, although I may not be one soon. I do not know why but I grow tired of the whole thing the world, the races, the gods. THey all just bore me to death. Anyone else go through a time like this? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 05 Jul 2004 : 01:23:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh yes! My collection of Dragon Magazine issues is pretty thorough. I have every issue, in print, from 321 to 148 (I started reading Dragon with issue 163). I have another dozen or so issues from before then... Plus, I have the Dragon Magazine Archive CDs, so I've effectively got every issue of Dragon.
I now know who to go to, and expect a fast response from  , when I have a question about any Dragon issue.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 21:32:26
quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Thanks Sarelle . I already have the Lady C's website address bookmarked. I was simply hoping that ol' Wooly could provide me with a fast track to the relevant information. I was feeling lazy at the time...
Here's the exact URL:
http://www.elainecunningham.com/chronology_of_fr_stories.htm
Exact URL, eh? Well  to you!
*grins* Hey, I was just being a nice guy and keeping him from having to search for the page... That's what I did, the other day. I just checked the History to find the link quickly, this time... Also, I copied the info to Word, to save myself the effort, next time.  |
| Sarelle |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 21:20:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Thanks Sarelle . I already have the Lady C's website address bookmarked. I was simply hoping that ol' Wooly could provide me with a fast track to the relevant information. I was feeling lazy at the time...
Here's the exact URL:
http://www.elainecunningham.com/chronology_of_fr_stories.htm
Exact URL, eh? Well to you! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 17:59:36
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Thanks Sarelle . I already have the Lady C's website address bookmarked. I was simply hoping that ol' Wooly could provide me with a fast track to the relevant information. I was feeling lazy at the time...
Here's the exact URL:
http://www.elainecunningham.com/chronology_of_fr_stories.htm
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though, unlike the other times I've read it, this time I'm going to read every book and short story, in order. I'm going by the list that's on Elaine's website, so I won't miss any stories this time thru.
Do you have the short story featuring Arilyn and Elaith that appeared in Dragon? If so, I'm impressed at someone's thorough nature.
Oh yes! My collection of Dragon Magazine issues is pretty thorough. I have every issue, in print, from 321 to 148 (I started reading Dragon with issue 163). I have another dozen or so issues from before then... Plus, I have the Dragon Magazine Archive CDs, so I've effectively got every issue of Dragon.
And the CDs come in handy, here, too. Since I have those, I put everything up to 250 in storage. Since one of the short stories is in issue 246 (there's another in issue 259), it'll be easier to just read the .pdf than it will be to go down, locate that box, find that magazine, read the story, and put it back. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 13:51:05
Thanks Sarelle . I already have the Lady C's website address bookmarked. I was simply hoping that ol' Wooly could provide me with a fast track to the relevant information. I was feeling lazy at the time...
|
| Sarelle |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 12:21:40
I'm no Wooly, but I think I can chime in here -
Sage: Ms. Cunningham's website, with a recently sent-out newsletter, is http://www.elainecunningham.com/. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 04:11:32
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though, unlike the other times I've read it, this time I'm going to read every book and short story, in order. I'm going by the list that's on Elaine's website, so I won't miss any stories this time thru.
Do you have the short story featuring Arilyn and Elaith that appeared in Dragon? If so, I'm impressed at someone's thorough nature. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:58:28
Whoa  . That's more than just a little disturbing.
By chance, do you have an URL for that listing on Lady C's website? I'd like to read all of her works in order as well.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:50:28
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Heh, that's funny. I've just started doing that myself. I currently on the last 50 pages of Elfshadow. I've noticed something though about Lady Cunningham's novels. Like a rare red wine's bouquet and flavor that matures with age, her stories motivate and evoke new thoughts and feelings with every read.
*laughs* By sheer coinky-dink, I'm exactly 52 pages from the end of Elfshadow!
Though, unlike the other times I've read it, this time I'm going to read every book and short story, in order. I'm going by the list that's on Elaine's website, so I won't miss any stories this time thru. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:18:47
Heh, that's funny. I've just started doing that myself. I currently on the last 50 pages of Elfshadow. I've noticed something though about Lady Cunningham's novels. Like a rare red wine's bouquet and flavor that matures with age, her stories motivate and evoke new thoughts and feelings with every read.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 17:41:06
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You may be right about that Wooly. Although, as I remember it, Silver Shadows never mentioned where the tinkerer came from. Granted it has been a very long time since I've read this novel though...
I just double-checked, because I wanted to make sure. Page 35 says Tinkersdam of Gond (I could not remember that name!) is a native of Lantan.
It's been a while since I read that book, myself... But I just started re-reading all the Arilyn stories, so I'll be getting back to that one soon enough. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 14:24:42
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Quite right. I believe Fendel (the Gnomish priest of Gond) is from Lantan.
Thank you Lord Rad. The tome is around here on some shelf, but no idea which one or where. I appreciate the confirmation. |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 10:55:41
Quite right. I believe Fendel (the Gnomish priest of Gond) is from Lantan. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 08:22:20
You may be right about that Wooly. Although, as I remember it, Silver Shadows never mentioned where the tinkerer came from. Granted it has been a very long time since I've read this novel though...
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 08:08:15
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
I have decided to pipe up again. My main reasons for losing interest in the realms now that I think about it, could possible be due to a lack of any FR Novels. I remember when I was reading them I still ooved the Realms. Can anybody reccomend any good ones? I have already read all the Drizzt books that are out as well as the three books involving Liriel Baenre.
Try taking a look through the novels forum as several novels have threads devoted to them. You obviously enjoy stories about the drow based upon the aforementioned novels you read. Is there any other element of the FR that you are interested in?
Lantan, but it seems there are almost no novels involving anyone from it.
Was not the tinker guy in Silver Shadows from Lantan? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 07:40:23
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Lantan, but it seems there are almost no novels involving anyone from it.
I'm trying to recall if Temple Hill, a novel published a few years back had a character from that area?? It's been too long, sorry.
I do know that Jeff Quick wrote a series of articles detailing Lantan for the WOTC site. They can be found here. |
| Gellion |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 07:28:55
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
I have decided to pipe up again. My main reasons for losing interest in the realms now that I think about it, could possible be due to a lack of any FR Novels. I remember when I was reading them I still ooved the Realms. Can anybody reccomend any good ones? I have already read all the Drizzt books that are out as well as the three books involving Liriel Baenre.
Try taking a look through the novels forum as several novels have threads devoted to them. You obviously enjoy stories about the drow based upon the aforementioned novels you read. Is there any other element of the FR that you are interested in?
Lantan, but it seems there are almost no novels involving anyone from it. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 07:12:36
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
I have decided to pipe up again. My main reasons for losing interest in the realms now that I think about it, could possible be due to a lack of any FR Novels. I remember when I was reading them I still ooved the Realms. Can anybody reccomend any good ones? I have already read all the Drizzt books that are out as well as the three books involving Liriel Baenre.
Try taking a look through the novels forum as several novels have threads devoted to them. You obviously enjoy stories about the drow based upon the aforementioned novels you read. Is there any other element of the FR that you are interested in? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 07:04:39
Well, War of the Spider Queen would seem to be the most logical choice, at the moment. The Sembia series is another, especially now that several of the characters from the books now have spin-off adventures.
I'm sure other scribes will mentioned their own particular favorites...
|
| Gellion |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 06:54:30
I have decided to pipe up again. My main reasons for losing interest in the realms now that I think about it, could possible be due to a lack of any FR Novels. I remember when I was reading them I still ooved the Realms. Can anybody reccomend any good ones? I have already read all the Drizzt books that are out as well as the three books involving Liriel Baenre. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 05:34:20
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
This last post has got me thinking:
Would I be as receptive to Eberron if I wasn't currently tired of the Realms?
Probably not. So I guess it shouldn't surprise me that Eberron is one of the most inspiring books I've picked up in awhile.
So many ideas, so little time.
I do believe that I would be... Of course the upcoming developments for both Dragonlance and Planescape would also have to factor into my thinking...
I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on Eberron though, but only in regards to the possible usage of Eberronic material in the Realms...
Perhaps another scroll...?
|
| 3catcircus |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 20:35:47
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
Well met!
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
What drives me to lose interest in the realms are policies like “we will no longer release modules for the Forgotten Realms because they cannot meet sales targets” or “The Realms will be limited to 1 or 2 sourcebooks per annum” And when said source books do not feature the types of specifics I want to see….well my interest starts to wane. Not in subject matter, but in product matter.
I understand that it is kinda hard not to seperate the product from the supplier, but I personally liked the realms when there were no sourcebooks. There are of course tons of sourcebooks for the Realms today, and then there is the internet to boot ... which contains some very worthy info. which only differes from published stuff in that its free. And it seems to be ever growing. So what some comapny decides to do is with the Realms is really irrelevent to me personally. It seems to me that the Realms could take care of itself grass-roots style.
Of course, not to tell anybody where their interests should be. If the Realms no longer do it, thats cool.
Grendel's mamma's daddy
I guess part of this is that a 1e/2e "sourcebook" isn't the same thing as a 3.x "sourcebook." Whereas the former would give a lot of information on a region's history, culture and peoples within the framework of the existing rules, the latter simply presents a list of new feats, prestige classes and spells with the "source" part of the book - i.e. - the fluff - as an afterthought.
I really don't care, for example, about the Purple Dragon Knight prestige class - I could have come up with that from scouring the various 1e/2e products and novels. What I *do* want is a nice overview of the Purple Dragons Order of Battle - how many units and of what type, who commands each unit, garrison locations, etc. I don't care about the Cosmopolitan feat - I want information on the people involved in the open (and closed) politics of Waterdeep's nobles... |
| Beowulf |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 19:38:09
Well met!
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
What drives me to lose interest in the realms are policies like “we will no longer release modules for the Forgotten Realms because they cannot meet sales targets” or “The Realms will be limited to 1 or 2 sourcebooks per annum” And when said source books do not feature the types of specifics I want to see….well my interest starts to wane. Not in subject matter, but in product matter.
I understand that it is kinda hard not to seperate the product from the supplier, but I personally liked the realms when there were no sourcebooks. There are of course tons of sourcebooks for the Realms today, and then there is the internet to boot ... which contains some very worthy info. which only differes from published stuff in that its free. And it seems to be ever growing. So what some comapny decides to do is with the Realms is really irrelevent to me personally. It seems to me that the Realms could take care of itself grass-roots style.
Of course, not to tell anybody where their interests should be. If the Realms no longer do it, thats cool.
Grendel's mamma's daddy |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 18:00:59
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
What drives me to lose interest in the realms are policies like “we will no longer release modules for the Forgotten Realms because they cannot meet sales targets” or “The Realms will be limited to 1 or 2 sourcebooks per annum” And when said source books do not feature the types of specifics I want to see….well my interest starts to wane. Not in subject matter, but in product matter.
Very well said!  |
| Chyron |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 17:49:07
Personally my own loss of interest in the realms is directly proportional to the policies of WOTC. Edition changes are one thing….ok change the mechanics, change the cosmology, I can pick and choose among the editions to keep the things I like. Annoying but I can do it....
What drives me to lose interest in the realms are policies like “we will no longer release modules for the Forgotten Realms because they cannot meet sales targets” or “The Realms will be limited to 1 or 2 sourcebooks per annum” And when said source books do not feature the types of specifics I want to see….well my interest starts to wane. Not in subject matter, but in product matter.
If you ask me to compare 2 products; City of The Spider Queen and Underdark. I would argue that CotSQ is a far more valuable resource. It has detailed focus on multiple areas of the Underdark, Maps, NPCs, New Monsters and ‘hey’ even an adventure. It can easily be broken down and used (by anyone with an active brain) in a non-FR setting that has drow or subterranean elves. Underdark on the other hand only vaguely touches on things that are not a new PrC, magic item or new feat. The back cover states “60 cities and sites of interest”, yet most of those only are given a minor blurb in the form of a few paragraphs with only a few getting any kind of map…. And yet this is supposed to spark our interest in the realms and spur us to continue to buy future sourcebooks. I honestly have little hope that Serpent Kingdoms will be any better, but I hope I am wrong.
You see the argument that CotSQ is a module and many DMs want sourcebooks to make their own adventures just does not hold water with me. CotSQ is a sourcebook. If I ever want to run adventures dealing with drow from say Szith Morcane….well there are the maps, there are the surviving NPCs,….even if I never run that adventure, I have city layouts, political structures, house names, etc etc….I can make my own stuff. Yet as I read through Underdark, there is little for me to work with. A brief history, maybe an NPC….but mostly it is all icing with no cake underneath.
Yeah I can go back and source other books from 1e/2e and even convert old mods as was discussed on another thread….but if I have to do all that, then why would I want to shell out another US $32.95 for more of the same? If you ask me…it is not so much a case of me (and other fans) losing interest in the realms but rather WOTC losing interest in the fans.
sorry for the rant... |
| 3catcircus |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 16:15:45
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
Indeed!  Thank ye, SiriusBlack. 3catcircus please refrain from wording in this manner. Whilst its understandable that you do not agree with certain WotC staff, please try to be polite. Thank ye.
T'wasnt't intended as namecalling (which is why I posted that particular sentence in quotes.) Rather, I intended it to be a description of my internal thought process on the subject - no offense was intended. Actually, if you read his own bio information, you'll see that he did, in fact, start out at TSR doing website tech support - so it was at least accurate in that regard. As to the term "puke" - I was referring to a low-pay thankless job rather than as a description of his character. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 14:13:42
Well met
Indeed! Thank ye, SiriusBlack. 3catcircus please refrain from wording in this manner. Whilst its understandable that you do not agree with certain WotC staff, please try to be polite. Thank ye. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 14:01:53
quote:
Originally posted by 3catcircus
When I read SKR's explanation of why he chose to change the cosmology, it tends to make my blood boil - I get a sense of outrage along the lines of "How DARE you - a glorified TSR website technical support puke who was given an opportunity to be a game designer because TSR had to let a lot of their staff go (or the staff chose to leave) prior to WOTC's buyout - make an arbitrary decision to change the planar cosmology and have the nerve to tell long-time players and DMs (and authors) that the prior cosmology was stupid!"
I have not always enjoyed the way Sean K. Reynolds conducts himself online. Additionally, I have not enjoyed some of his gaming decisions/explanations. However, to label him "a glorified TSR website technical support puke" seems to me to be crossing a line especially when a person isn't here to defend himself.
I think you can make your point without resorting to name calling. |
| 3catcircus |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 13:26:03
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
This is not a 3E phenomenon. Both 1E and 2E had their fair share of product turkeys. If I was you I'd wait to see the next 4 or so products before passing judgement.
I agree - however, most of the 1E/2E writers at least tried to make it *look* like they had done some research on prior works... My impression is that for 1E/2E, the game writers were less of a problem than the novel writers in this regard. Now, it seems it is the other way around.
quote:
You see, I just can't get sparked up about this one. Not in the slightest. This only has significance if you are running an FR campaign that has your PCs plane-hopping. It doesn't affect the Realms per se. Waterdeep is still Waterdeep and Larloch is still Larloch - whatever planar cosmology you subscribe to. But hey, YMMV.
-- George Krashos
While I understand your point and I generally don't run plane-hopping campaigns, I want the *options* presented in 1E/2E (Spelljammers, the Planes, Kara-Tur, etc.) to still be a viable option.
When I read SKR's explanation of why he chose to change the cosmology, it tends to make my blood boil - I get a sense of outrage along the lines of "How DARE you - a glorified TSR website technical support puke who was given an opportunity to be a game designer because TSR had to let a lot of their staff go (or the staff chose to leave) prior to WOTC's buyout - make an arbitrary decision to change the planar cosmology and have the nerve to tell long-time players and DMs (and authors) that the prior cosmology was stupid!"
When I read that WOTC has no plans for Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica because sales of the original were not as good as core 1E/2E D&D products (and also the reason why we will never see a 3E sourcebook like Silver Marches - mostly fluff rather than crunch), it also tends to make my blood boil. While I know (and agree with) the idea that people are in business to make money, we also have to realize that the TSR of Gygax and Arneson (hobby that surprisingly and happily made money) is now the WOTC of Hasbro, whose bottom line is more important than the quality of the product they produce - lets face it - if Hasbro could make a ton of money by infecting people with cancer, they'd do it.
As I said before - I've found that with 3.x FR (and 3.x D&D in general), that I spend more time attempting to catalogue the thousands of feats and prestige classes, attempting to reconcile blatant errors in fluff between 1E/2E and the latest edition, and generally being a beancounter than I do creating and playing the game - which makes things tedious and causes me to lose interest in favor of returning to a simpler version of the game.
I know that I didn't lose interest in the Realms when 2E came out - even though there were changes, they weren't so grossly different as to be incompatible. I *liked* that I could pick up a 1E/2E supplement and find *useful* information that still left me enough room as a DM to maneuver - I wasn't locked into "This NPC needs these feats and these prestige classes to do the things he is describes in the novels as being capable of doing." |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 04:06:43
quote:
Originally posted by 3catcircus
As to the "...current batch of writers..." doing a "...fine job...", perhaps I'll be starting to rant, but I simply don't see that all of them are doing an acceptable job - many are, a few aren't.
This is not a 3E phenomenon. Both 1E and 2E had their fair share of product turkeys. If I was you I'd wait to see the next 4 or so products before passing judgement.
quote:
The biggest offender - well - I can't accept the arguments for the Tree cosmology (even given Ed's pre-D&D cosmology set-up) - which I see as the most egregious ret-con for the worse.
You see, I just can't get sparked up about this one. Not in the slightest. This only has significance if you are running an FR campaign that has your PCs plane-hopping. It doesn't affect the Realms per se. Waterdeep is still Waterdeep and Larloch is still Larloch - whatever planar cosmology you subscribe to. But hey, YMMV.
-- George Krashos
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