| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Master Katarn |
Posted - 29 Mar 2023 : 16:50:44
Just today, the comic book 'Dungeons & Dragons: Saturday Morning Adventures #1' went on sale, intended by WOTC and IDW to be a continuation of the tv show (when this takes place in relation to the audio play Reqiuem isn't clear, but possibly before that).
In literally the first page, it says in the prose recap "In the early 1980s, six kids... were enjoying a day at the amusement park. That is, until a fateful ride on a D&D themed roller coaster transported them to the Forgotten Realms!"
Isn't this a HUGE retcon? I think before now it was long assumed that the cartoon took place on some generic D&D setting, or maybe Greyhawk. Yes, the D&D cartoon protagonists have featured in Realms works before, notably the Grand Tour comic book with Elminster, a painting in Baldur's Gate 2 jokingly referring to them rumored to have been killed and most recently (minor spoilers for upcoming D&D movie)
unnamed people who look like them, with no lines, in Dungeons & Dragons Honor Among Thieves
However, in all of the above cases, it could be handwaved that the D&D protagonists traveled to the Realms AFTER the events of the cartoon, not that the cartoon was set in the Forgotten Realms itself.
Now however, this comic book outright says that the show was taking place in the Realms the whole time and appears to be the current official stance on the matter by WOTC. This would also retroactively make the cartoon the first Realms products as they came out 1983-1985, predating 1987's Darkwalker on Moonshae and even the Forgotten Realms Campaign set that debuted the whole setting!
Thoughts? Any cartoon/Realms experts who can point out any possible contradictions in this retcon? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Aug 2023 : 04:40:07
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Did anyone actually read these new comics!
I read the first one. It was not enough to motivate me to get the rest. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 25 Aug 2023 : 23:55:20
Did anyone actually read these new comics! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Aug 2023 : 02:16:04
quote:
Originally posted by Master Katarn
So we have an appearance in the 1300s with Elminster in the Grand Tour comic, and then suddenly the kids are still alive in 1490s Faerun for the movie. All alive too, despite a very deadly Spellplague in between that should've turned Presto at least into a goner.
I'm guessing they got home and were on Earth at least during the Spellplague. How or why they came back in time for the movie is still unclear.
It's possible that they were in the Realms for over a century, and like many others, found some convenient "keep them in play" McGuffin that brought them back after the Spellplague.
But I think it's all a moot point. The comic retcons the cartoon and prior appearances by them in the Realms, and thanks to WotC's stance on canon, the comic, the movie, and the current published Realms are all different canons -- so they're not even going to think about explaining anything. |
| Master Katarn |
Posted - 10 Aug 2023 : 01:11:37
So we have an appearance in the 1300s with Elminster in the Grand Tour comic, and then suddenly the kids are still alive in 1490s Faerun for the movie. All alive too, despite a very deadly Spellplague in between that should've turned Presto at least into a goner.
I'm guessing they got home and were on Earth at least during the Spellplague. How or why they came back in time for the movie is still unclear. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 09 Aug 2023 : 20:08:58
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My headcanon is that they made it home, decided to go back to the Realm, and then later moved from the Realm to the Realms.
I say they made it home because there was an episode with a girl who dreamed of the future, and she dreamed of seeing Bobby at her school where he returned the necklace she'd given him. In my opinion, this makes it clear they returned home and back to their previous lives.
But the (horrible!) Grand Tour comic puts them in Shadowdale, and they're referenced in one or more of the Baldur's Gate games, and there's also the movie cameo... So either they left Earth and went to Toril, or they went back to the Realm and then took one of the gates there to Toril. I lean towards the latter since there seemed to be some long-lasting connection between the Realm and that theme park, and we know that both the Realm and the Realms have a lot of gates to other places.
As for why they would return to the Realm in the first place... This is all pure homebrew, not supported by anything at all:
I figure both Presto and Eric had some home situation they weren't happy with and wanted to get away from (because of their personalities). Everyone else had at the least normal home lives... But then there was an accident, and Bobby and Shiela lost their parents, and both of them suffered permanent injuries as well -- like a lost limb or paralysis. One of the other kids said something about wishing they were still in the Realm where healing magic was available, and the idea took hold. Bobby and Shiela no longer had anything tying them to Earth, and Presto and Eric were more than willing to bail, so Diana and Hank agreed, as well, and they all went back to the theme park and then to the Realm. Maybe there was some caveat about healing or their voluntary return meaning they couldn't leave, or maybe they just collectively preferred the Realm, but the end result was that they stayed there.
Again, pure homebrew, not supported by anything. It was just me trying to make everything make sense.
Here’s an addition with slight alterations. Presto remained in the Realm after with the redeemed Venger when all the kids went home in Requiem.
Perhaps Presto, slightly older and having been mentored by Venger, found his way to Toril through a portal.
Here he tried to apprentice to Elminster like mentioned in that awful book, but then when setting out on his own he came across a threat he couldn’t overcome in his own, thus using his magic to contact his old buddies back on Earth using Els contacts. Voila
It seems they also got their weapons back which perhaps Venger helped with. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Aug 2023 : 05:40:58
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
My stance is to use the Nick Fury quote from the Avengers movie about councils making decisions.
Funny that there's an exactly opposite stance using a Mace Windu quote from the Star Wars movie about councils making decisions.
I have a custom Lego Minifigure I made by putting the head of Nick Fury on the body of Mace Windu.
I call him Darth Fury. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Aug 2023 : 02:44:15
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
My stance is to use the Nick Fury quote from the Avengers movie about councils making decisions.
Funny that there's an exactly opposite stance using a Mace Windu quote from the Star Wars movie about councils making decisions. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Aug 2023 : 01:27:52
My headcanon is that they made it home, decided to go back to the Realm, and then later moved from the Realm to the Realms.
I say they made it home because there was an episode with a girl who dreamed of the future, and she dreamed of seeing Bobby at her school where he returned the necklace she'd given him. In my opinion, this makes it clear they returned home and back to their previous lives.
But the (horrible!) Grand Tour comic puts them in Shadowdale, and they're referenced in one or more of the Baldur's Gate games, and there's also the movie cameo... So either they left Earth and went to Toril, or they went back to the Realm and then took one of the gates there to Toril. I lean towards the latter since there seemed to be some long-lasting connection between the Realm and that theme park, and we know that both the Realm and the Realms have a lot of gates to other places.
As for why they would return to the Realm in the first place... This is all pure homebrew, not supported by anything at all:
I figure both Presto and Eric had some home situation they weren't happy with and wanted to get away from (because of their personalities). Everyone else had at the least normal home lives... But then there was an accident, and Bobby and Shiela lost their parents, and both of them suffered permanent injuries as well -- like a lost limb or paralysis. One of the other kids said something about wishing they were still in the Realm where healing magic was available, and the idea took hold. Bobby and Shiela no longer had anything tying them to Earth, and Presto and Eric were more than willing to bail, so Diana and Hank agreed, as well, and they all went back to the theme park and then to the Realm. Maybe there was some caveat about healing or their voluntary return meaning they couldn't leave, or maybe they just collectively preferred the Realm, but the end result was that they stayed there.
Again, pure homebrew, not supported by anything. It was just me trying to make everything make sense. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 08 Aug 2023 : 23:22:54
Long story short: The Realm is not The Forgotten Realms. My stance is to use the Nick Fury quote from the Avengers movie about councils making decisions. |
| Master Katarn |
Posted - 07 Aug 2023 : 20:16:26
The comic run has been over for some time now, yet none of the questions brought up here were ever answered. I guess it's just a given now that the kids were in the Realms the entire time, but even the timeframe is not clear nor is any attempt made in the comic to connect with the cameos in the movie. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jun 2023 : 16:05:02
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I saw those D&D kids running around a gaming arena/gauntlet in Neverwinter once ...
I suppose if the movie is canon set in the Realms, then the characters in the movie are canon set in the Realms.
I suppose the people I saw on screen might just be some randoms who happened to share physical appearances and costumes. Though the resemblance is strikingly and uncanny so I think they must be the cartoon characters.
I admit the short barbarian seemed older and tougher than I expected. Isn't he a 10-year-old kid in the cartoon?
The movie credits list the kids by name, and it's the same names as the kids from the cartoon.
It could be a coincidence that they more or less look the same, have the same names, and wear the same clothes... But I for one won't put money on that possibility. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 10 Jun 2023 : 14:54:51
I saw those D&D kids running around a gaming arena/gauntlet in Neverwinter once ...
I suppose if the movie is canon set in the Realms, then the characters in the movie are canon set in the Realms.
I suppose the people I saw on screen might just be some randoms who happened to share physical appearances and costumes. Though the resemblance is strikingly and uncanny so I think they must be the cartoon characters.
I admit the short barbarian seemed older and tougher than I expected. Isn't he a 10-year-old kid in the cartoon? |
| Gyor |
Posted - 10 Jun 2023 : 13:16:51
quote:
Originally posted by redking
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So yeah, this is a huge retcon, and it's another sign that the current "design" team just doesn't care about continuity and thinks the Realms is a salad bar they can pick and choose from and ignore anything they don't like.
I am sick of hearing about how the current design team "loves the Forgotten Realms setting" as the excuse for every loathsome thing that they do to the setting. They may love the setting, but they don't respect it.
The Realm is great but it's a different setting that is worth exploring separately.
Finally watched the cartoon, dispite the name the realm, its not the Forgotten Realms so its left unexplained how they got FR,especially since only Presto was left in the Realm at the end.
I never saw the cartoons as a kid and then watched the entire series again last year. Retcons aside, "the Realm" is not Toril. It could be a demiplane as you say. It could even be another world on the prime material plane. |
| Athreeren |
Posted - 06 May 2023 : 10:22:44
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Next we're going to hear all about how Greyhawk was Faerun all along.
You didn't know? https://web.archive.org/web/19970424044506/http://tsrinc.com/info/tabloid.html |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 06 May 2023 : 07:54:43
Next we're going to hear all about how Greyhawk was Faerun all along. |
| Vinzor Burrow |
Posted - 03 May 2023 : 10:40:43
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and I would be surprised if anyone in FR referred to it as the "forgotten" realms.... the realms maybe... Toril, Faerun, Realmspace, Abeir-Toril... maybe... but I just can't buy anyone in setting calling it "the forgotten realms".
But somebody visiting with a different frame of reference might.
|
| redking |
Posted - 30 Apr 2023 : 11:23:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So yeah, this is a huge retcon, and it's another sign that the current "design" team just doesn't care about continuity and thinks the Realms is a salad bar they can pick and choose from and ignore anything they don't like.
I saw the cartoons as a kid and then watched the entire series again last year. Retcons aside, "the Realm" is not Toril. It could be a demiplane as you say. It could even be another world on the prime material plane.
I am sick of hearing about how the current design team "loves the Forgotten Realms setting" as the excuse for every loathsome thing that they do to the setting. They may love the setting, but they don't respect it.
The Realm is great but it's a different setting that is worth exploring separately. |
| Master Katarn |
Posted - 27 Apr 2023 : 04:16:55
Issue 2 came out this week. Not to spoil too much but there is no insight added into what was already discussed here. There is absolutely nothing to identify what timeframe of the Realms this issue takes place in. Nor are there any shout outs or tie-ins to the movie that I noticed. |
| Azar |
Posted - 06 Apr 2023 : 03:02:06
Some of you folks give the creative talent working at behest of these IP owners way way way too much credit when you attempt to attribute an impressive amount of foresight to people who probably deserve none whatsoever. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Apr 2023 : 01:34:49
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
4 bucks for a virtual comic book that I'm not expecting to be well researched? Call me cheap, but I'll pass. A dollar maybe... or 4 bucks for the complete collection of 4... It's just not that important to me, and if they wrote themselves into a corner from the get go by putting dates in it.... well, I'm not impressed with their forethought.
The specific facts don't matter to me.
I'm more annoyed by the poor characterization. Hank wants to go home and is whining, Eric is okay with staying, and everyone else is going along with Eric.
I take it you read it? Yeah, that does sound odd. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Apr 2023 : 22:37:42
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
4 bucks for a virtual comic book that I'm not expecting to be well researched? Call me cheap, but I'll pass. A dollar maybe... or 4 bucks for the complete collection of 4... It's just not that important to me, and if they wrote themselves into a corner from the get go by putting dates in it.... well, I'm not impressed with their forethought.
The specific facts don't matter to me.
I'm more annoyed by the poor characterization. Hank wants to go home and is whining, Eric is okay with staying, and everyone else is going along with Eric.
This!
And the artwork -- it's more cartoonish than the original cartoon was. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Apr 2023 : 21:50:00
quote:
4 bucks for a virtual comic book that I'm not expecting to be well researched? Call me cheap, but I'll pass. A dollar maybe... or 4 bucks for the complete collection of 4... It's just not that important to me, and if they wrote themselves into a corner from the get go by putting dates in it.... well, I'm not impressed with their forethought.
The specific facts don't matter to me.
I'm more annoyed by the poor characterization. Hank wants to go home and is whining, Eric is okay with staying, and everyone else is going along with Eric. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Apr 2023 : 18:21:33
quote:
Originally posted by Master Katarn
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I haven't... link?
You may have to adjust the Amazon URL to match whatever country you're in: https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Saturday-Morning-Adventures-ebook/dp/B0BQRV163M
4 bucks for a virtual comic book that I'm not expecting to be well researched? Call me cheap, but I'll pass. A dollar maybe... or 4 bucks for the complete collection of 4... It's just not that important to me, and if they wrote themselves into a corner from the get go by putting dates in it.... well, I'm not impressed with their forethought. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Apr 2023 : 02:49:06
I'm also not sure what's so weird about them being in the Realms during two vastly different time periods. Mirt is alive and back to lending money in 5th Edition.
I'm actually pissed off Alusair ISNT back from the dead. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Apr 2023 : 00:09:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So yeah, this is a huge retcon, and it's another sign that the current "design" team just doesn't care about continuity and thinks the Realms is a salad bar they can pick and choose from and ignore anything they don't like.
To be fair, I think it's more likely that they wanted to throw a recognizable reference, easter egg, or "homage" into the new film. With the intention of pleasing the audience, not with the intention of stomping on lore.
Those stupid kids in the cartoon kept stumbling around from place to place every week. A lot of recognizable generic 1E adventures in a recognizable generic Greyhawk-like D&D setting, they also fought German aircraft from WW2, they ventured into the the planar domain of a "demodragon" thing, they found a Blackmoor-like spaceship, they travelled through time (a few times), they were teleported and portalled all over the place (sometimes to different worlds, Earth among them). There were even one or two episodes which looked, if you squinted a little, like they could've been set in the mists of Ravenloft.
So it seems perfectly plausible that they'd find themselves in the middle of movie set in the Realms. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 04 Apr 2023 : 20:10:43
I say Time of Troubles would be better, yeah. |
| Athreeren |
Posted - 04 Apr 2023 : 18:24:55
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Wasn't there some issue with the number of moons... might be wrong.
Which could be a sign of the world's merging (Spellplague) or just a sign Selune is utterly out of sync without its goddess.
If it takes place during the Time of Troubles as you suggested, we know that there could be three suns at once in the sky on some days and in some places when no god is there to control the sun's trajectory. So I'd say it's a given that the number of Moons could be wrong. If it's the Spellplague though, I don't know how chaotic those years were in comparison with the ToT. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 04 Apr 2023 : 03:07:14
quote:
Wasn't there some issue with the number of moons... might be wrong.
Which could be a sign of the world's merging (Spellplague) or just a sign Selune is utterly out of sync without its goddess. |
| Master Katarn |
Posted - 04 Apr 2023 : 01:17:44
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I haven't... link?
You may have to adjust the Amazon URL to match whatever country you're in: https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Saturday-Morning-Adventures-ebook/dp/B0BQRV163M |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Apr 2023 : 00:09:04
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The cartoon is clearly not set in the Forgotten Realms during its airing because the Forgotten Realms didn't exist yet.
HOWEVER, it's not like the original recipe Ed Greenwood Forgotten Realms didn't have places that bizarre eclectic adventures couldn't happen. Part of the charm of the D&D cartoon was it was very much about small communities and moving from town to town like a Western. There was never any huge kingdoms or territories that would require sticking something big into Faerun.
The bigger issue is the absolute bizarrity of stuff they ran along and the fact that the stars and constellations were often very of.
My solution?
Proposed: The cartoon is, indeed, set in the Forgotten Realms retroactively the same way that Maztica, Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, and the Moonshaes novels were added to it. They take place in the Border Kingdoms that were never deliberately defined and it is set during the Time of Troubles. Why the Time of Troubles? Because that explains why magic and reality are so damned weird. It might also explain why the party is having so much trouble getting home, regardless of Dungeonmaster being a dick. This is why the party keeps encountering Tiamat and she's so vastly weaker than normal.
And yes, I enjoyed reading the comic but there's no room for them NOT being in the Realms. Which is fine. That's the direction they're going with.
Wasn't there some issue with the number of moons... might be wrong. |
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