| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gyor |
Posted - 22 Jul 2021 : 18:17:40
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-canon-roleplaying-game-novels/
All FR novels, video games, comics, aren't considered none canon, they just had press release.
RIP Forgotten Realms 1987-2021
I look forward to the day whoever was involved in this gets the firing they so richly deserves.
I'm thinking of writing a petition not to not decanonize the novels. Any suggestions welcome. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TKU |
Posted - 22 Aug 2021 : 20:24:45
I feel like there's two things here. One thing-the curation of what content to use and what not to use, and what to homebrew yourself-is something that all DMs and players have always done, no matter the setting, or even the system-that's a trait that holds true whether you are doing Forgotten Realms, Star Wars Saga, or World of Darkness. The other thing is WoTC basically admitting that their design philosophy is to invalidate setting material from previous editions with 5e. It makes business sense, I guess-if your bookhelf of old material is invalidated each edition, that certainly creates an incentive to buy into the new material. But I don't see what's essentially a reboot of the various D&D settings in any way liberating and empowering players and DMs to do what they have always done, but it does seem to me that they are attempting to conflate one with the other when the latter is very obviously purely being done entirely for financial reasons and the talk about doing it for the players is marketing PR. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 22 Aug 2021 : 02:30:40
No one is disputing that you can take what you like and leave what you don't. Yes, the Realms is a "buffet", but it still felt like a living, breathing world. Sure, there were inconsistencies along the way, but WotC is basically saying that all the stuff that happened prior to 2014 (ie, basically everything that built the Realms!) is no longer canon. It's like gutting a program of all but the bare minimum but keeping the name of that program that same, in the hopes it will still be "familiar" and draw people in because of the name. |
| Kelcimer |
Posted - 21 Aug 2021 : 23:44:48
I can't say as that I mind this. Each one of us determines what Forgotten Realms material is canon for us.
For myself, two best Forgotten Realms products are "The City of Ravens Bluff" and the" Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting" book from 2001. I have some of the books they published until maybe 2005 or so, but none of them are essential. I remember reading "The Year of Rogue Dragons" trilogy and had a good time reading it, but the events within it are not canon for my game.
The reason why Forgotten Realms is so successful as a setting is that it is a buffet. You are bound to find some part of the Realms that you like and other parts that aren't all that useful to you. In you game you focus on those parts that work for you and those parts come to the fore. Those other bits that don't work for you, well, you might discard them or change them or whatever. And that is great! But the parts you like might be the parts that someone else dislikes and overwrites in their game. And that is great!
I haven't bought a Forgotten Realms product since 4th edition came out. Sometimes when I am researching some part of Forgotten Realms on some wiki I'll read a little about what came later, but that has nothing to do with my Realms. It might be somebody else's idea of the Realms. And if so, okay. Everybody is entitle to play the game they want to play. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 10:43:06
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
So Thay can be ruled by smurfs,
Hmm, Papa Smurf practiced magic, was the ruling authority in the village, and the only one to wear red...
Gargamel was the Simbul?
Yes. FWIW, Azriel was Lady Yhelbruna. Bigmouth was Fyldrin of the Eleven Chairs. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 03:42:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
So Thay can be ruled by smurfs,
Hmm, Papa Smurf practiced magic, was the ruling authority in the village, and the only one to wear red...
Gargamel was the Simbul? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 16:48:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
So Thay can be ruled by smurfs,
Hmm, Papa Smurf practiced magic, was the ruling authority in the village, and the only one to wear red...
He's one of those Fire Uldras (not to be confused with the frost uldras from frostburn). They've secretly been at war with the inhabitants of Sossal for centuries. Thayans don't actually realize how many of their compatriots are actually secret fire uldras in disguise, and many of them came from the gnomish community of Songfarla nearby, but they are no longer welcome there. They were once frost uldra, but contact with the artifact known as Daarthos Koruna changed them and made them more aggressive. It seems to only affect the males.
Information source - Fibean Lysander, noted gnome mystic theurge of Baravar Cloakshadow ... who was absolutely not telling a lie in order to increase paranoia amongst the red wizards. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 14:55:42
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
So Thay can be ruled by smurfs,
Hmm, Papa Smurf practiced magic, was the ruling authority in the village, and the only one to wear red...
|
| Demzer |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 09:15:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
WotC has NEVER had to follow along, fixing anything Ed might say. Never.
1) Usually Ed is either filling in the blanks WotC has left open, or
2) he's fixing what they've said, reconciling it with prior lore.
The agreement was that Ed was canon until they said something superseding him.
I agree they never had to follow-up on his stuff because he never gave them cause too. In this kind of "gentlemen agreement" he has always been very sensitive and alert at working in the (quite big) design spaces left open by the publisher (like the excellent DM he is) and he was always in the loop so he never spoiled anything the publisher was working on and he had to do very minor rearrangings/retellings to fix random hiccups here and there.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So they didn't have to pay any attention at all to what he said on a web forum -- their canon has always overwritten his, by default. If he says A and they say B, B wins and there's no reason to acknowledge that he said A.
And whether here or on Twitter, Ed's never had the reach that WotC does.
Quite frankly, I doubt they pay any attention to him at all if he's not writing something specifically for their use.
I agree on this also but in my mind the statement that sparked this topic makes a world of difference in the actual practice of the disregard they can have towards Ed's lore.
Before, they didn't pay attention because they knew he would not pull shenanigans, but his stuff still mattered until game products arrived (and really, how much of his stuff has been overwritten, beside passage of time? The Spellplague was the worst event and it wasn't even targeted, it was just a nuke, and he rebuilt from there).
Now, they don't pay attention because his stuff doesn't matter to the setting. It's like the creator of the setting has been downgraded to a DM like everybody else. Which doesn't look particularly good to me.
Also, another slight tangent on the main topic, but in practice we don't have "canon" for most of the stuff outside the Sword Coast, right? So Thay can be ruled by smurfs, Vaasa be a skiing resort for giffs and Cormyr never actually existed.
Are these extreme examples? Yes.
Could they happen before? No, because they had to adhere to canon.
Can they happen now? Yes, because they said there is no canon anymore.
That's why you need canon in a shared setting. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 04:26:53
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
WE ARE DONE with the topic of Mike Krahulik. 
We have more important questions, like whether Wooly Rupert is really a woolly mammoth, a woolly rhinoceros, or a mouse with a keyboard.
I'm leaning towards a mouse. It's why he banhammers people instead of goring them to death with his oversized tusks or horns.
Nope, we have already established he is indeed a giant space hamster. His preferred method of execution is his giant hamster ball of death. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 10 Aug 2021 : 03:44:19
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
WE ARE DONE with the topic of Mike Krahulik.
We have more important questions, like whether Wooly Rupert is really a woolly mammoth, a woolly rhinoceros, or a mouse with a keyboard.
I'm leaning towards a mouse. It's why he banhammers people instead of goring them to death with his oversized tusks or horns. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 16:28:07
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
regarding legal issues over canon and what Ed says.... I don't think Ed's got the money to fight Hasbro... and quite frankly, IF I WERE HIM, at this point in my life, I don't know that I'd care unless they told him to desist writing things or came after him legally somehow. The only thing he might care about is if they quit letting him write things for money, but he's doing a lot of side work (and he is 62 guys... I know after 60, I don't want to work anymore... probably won't happen, but I'm shooting for that). Let's face it, the published realms is far from what he originally had in mind at this point. His ideas are great and I'm happy to hear them, but the idea that Hasbro/WotC would have to follow along mopping up behind him to fix anything he might say is untenable, especially since he's an outside contractor. Throw into the arena as well that those contracts were written up with TSR, not WotC, not Hasbro... and any lawyer worth his salt would be able to argue and win a case that ends up with Ed getting some kind of pay off (hopefully) and a polite thank you. Now, if something does happen, you can make me eat my words, but that's how I see things, especially in this crazy new world we live in where litigation is often "litigation by whim of the court".
WotC has NEVER had to follow along, fixing anything Ed might say. Never.
1) Usually Ed is either filling in the blanks WotC has left open, or
2) he's fixing what they've said, reconciling it with prior lore.
The agreement was that Ed was canon until they said something superseding him. So they didn't have to pay any attention at all to what he said on a web forum -- their canon has always overwritten his, by default. If he says A and they say B, B wins and there's no reason to acknowledge that he said A.
And whether here or on Twitter, Ed's never had the reach that WotC does.
Quite frankly, I doubt they pay any attention to him at all if he's not writing something specifically for their use. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 16:22:24
WE ARE DONE with the topic of Mike Krahulik. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 16:14:04
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Mike Krahulik has been viciously transphobic in the past and broadly has a checkered record; consider leaving him out of your public ‘complain at a soulless corporation about their IP” campaign.
Never heard of the guy before you brought him up, but since you did....
Michael Krahulik is an American artist for the webcomic Penny Arcade and co-founder with Jerry Holkins of Child's Play, a charity that organizes toy drives for children's hospitals.
sounds like a horrible person.....
A quick google will show you over a decade of transphobia controversies and an incident where his webcomic featured a sexual assault joke that he sold merchandise referencing after outcry. Him having done charitable work does not erase his prior misdeeds.
You say you’ve never heard of the man. Why defend him?
Gasp, he made a controversial joke, in this day and age, lets string him up! /s
I don't know this guy for the record, I'm just sick of cancel culture on Principle.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 13:33:45
regarding legal issues over canon and what Ed says.... I don't think Ed's got the money to fight Hasbro... and quite frankly, IF I WERE HIM, at this point in my life, I don't know that I'd care unless they told him to desist writing things or came after him legally somehow. The only thing he might care about is if they quit letting him write things for money, but he's doing a lot of side work (and he is 62 guys... I know after 60, I don't want to work anymore... probably won't happen, but I'm shooting for that). Let's face it, the published realms is far from what he originally had in mind at this point. His ideas are great and I'm happy to hear them, but the idea that Hasbro/WotC would have to follow along mopping up behind him to fix anything he might say is untenable, especially since he's an outside contractor. Throw into the arena as well that those contracts were written up with TSR, not WotC, not Hasbro... and any lawyer worth his salt would be able to argue and win a case that ends up with Ed getting some kind of pay off (hopefully) and a polite thank you. Now, if something does happen, you can make me eat my words, but that's how I see things, especially in this crazy new world we live in where litigation is often "litigation by whim of the court". |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 12:11:38
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
On the original topic: I'm trying to wrap my mind around what type of legal obligations WotC/Hasbro would have with Ed, because this statement basically disregards anything the public knew about the relationship between Ed and Realms canon and I'm very curious to understand what happens now.
Nothing happens now.
-- George Krashos |
| Demzer |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 10:13:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Mayhaps we can move on from the entire slavery in Mulhorand discussion and swing back to something closer to the original discussion?
I agree with not wanting "personal attacks" and trying to keep things civil, but if someone says that the Realms present slavery (or any other despicable thing) in a favorable light while being dead wrong they NEED to be challenged and those assumptions NEED to be shown invalid until hard proof has been given.
I've said this in another scroll a long while back: misconceptions of the kind of morals and ethics presented in the Realms should not be tolerated.
On the original topic: I'm trying to wrap my mind around what type of legal obligations WotC/Hasbro would have with Ed, because this statement basically disregards anything the public knew about the relationship between Ed and Realms canon and I'm very curious to understand what happens now. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 04:07:36
Mayhaps we can move on from the entire slavery in Mulhorand discussion and swing back to something closer to the original discussion? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Aug 2021 : 03:05:56
-No need to be rude to the guy. |
| deserk |
Posted - 08 Aug 2021 : 12:44:06
Zeromaru X, I think what's worst is that you are making a lot insidious assumptions about the books without bothering to back up your claims with evidence. First you claim that slavery was shown to be a good thing in the books, which I would say has now thoroughly been debunked as shown in the previous posts. Now you make claims that the Mulani don't enslave anyone of Mulani descent. There might be some truth that a fair chunk of the slaves in Thay and the Old Empires might be outlanders, but there is nothing explicitly says that the Mulani are not taken as slaves in their own homelands. This seems very unlikely in both Unther and Mulhorand where slaves make up the largest percentage of the overall population, and both of those lands are predominantly Mulani. The slavery of these lands resembles the slavery of the Ancient Greece, Rome and Egypt. Anyone severely down on their luck could potentially end up as slaves in these societies. That could be anyone, from those those abducted by bandits, unfortunates whom owe massive debts, political prisoners that have ended up on the losing side of a civil conflict or war, etc. Not to mention these lands have had a lot of internal strife as well as many wars between each other (Unther vs Mulhorand, Thay vs Mulhorand, Unther vs Chessenta, etc). |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 08 Aug 2021 : 11:27:05
Given that the Mulan are heavily implied to have been real world Egyptians and Mesopotamians that were enslaved and then went on to enslave in turn, I have no idea how this could possibly be construed as an issue with American 'POC'. Slavery predated the US, and I doubt the designers were thinking of American slavery when they designed the Egyptian/Mesopotamian stand-ins.
I mean, go look at games like Morrowind, where the entire game takes place among a culture that promotes slavery without casting moral judgment. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 08 Aug 2021 : 05:42:40
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Definitely more tribes please. Different origin for some tribes works for me.
I just read today that the kobolds of the ice lakes by old Illusk wiped out local Uthgardt, could have been a whole tribe unnamed. Same goes for any area suspiciously devoid of the Uthgardt.
Part of me doesn't want to derail this scroll anymore than it already has been. But I must ask what resource is that kobold reference from? Been researching kobolds lately and would love to read more about them.
Dragon #216 - "Elminster's Notebook - Kobold Commotions".
-- George Krashos |
| Scars Unseen |
Posted - 08 Aug 2021 : 04:51:46
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-So anything distasteful should not be featured? Not trying to put words in your mouth, trying to understand.
I would not go that far. I'd say that if that stuff is featured, it either should be downplayed or displayed in a way it shows us that this is something negative.
I get what you're saying here, but I think there's a difference between the characters (including the victims) thinking slavery is okay and the audience thinking it's okay. The former would essentially be a fantasy dystopia setting, and would be prime material for a campaign that revolves around the culture shock of PCs coming from outside, and the conflict of wanting to do the right thing versus trying to avoid sparking a war.
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Just sticking with the slavery thing, if the original products made it very obvious that Mulhorandi or Thayvian slavers were paper thin stand-ins for antebellum southern merchants/plantation owners, that they only enslaved dark skin peoples seized from another land that they considered subhuman, and were very graphic and almost took glee in the writing, I would 100% agree that crosses the line. But when enough detail is made to create a distinct culture (the Mulhorandi are a little too Ancient Egyptian, but close enough) that incorporates slavery in some wider societal manner, I think it becomes devoid of intent and becomes simply a world building device to make of it whatever every individual person does.
The thing with Mulhorand is that goes borderline with racial supremacism. They enslave anyone of non-Mulan heritage, for instance. As for the POC stuff, you should remember they displaced the turami from their homeland...
Call me "woke" or whatever, but I just don't like that kind of stuff.
If we remove aspects of a campaign world because they're distasteful, you'll soon have a campaign world that only tastes bland. The way to address racial supremacy is not to pretend it doesn't exist. If you want to do that, it's pretty easy to do at gaming table. But whether treated in a quasi-historical context or bringing modern sensibilities to the table, issues we consider problematic can be a valuable source of conflict. Mind you, no one is suggesting that we turn the game into FATAL or anything. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 08 Aug 2021 : 02:26:43
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-So anything distasteful should not be featured? Not trying to put words in your mouth, trying to understand.
I would not go that far. I'd say that if that stuff is featured, it either should be downplayed or displayed in a way it shows us that this is something negative.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Just sticking with the slavery thing, if the original products made it very obvious that Mulhorandi or Thayvian slavers were paper thin stand-ins for antebellum southern merchants/plantation owners, that they only enslaved dark skin peoples seized from another land that they considered subhuman, and were very graphic and almost took glee in the writing, I would 100% agree that crosses the line. But when enough detail is made to create a distinct culture (the Mulhorandi are a little too Ancient Egyptian, but close enough) that incorporates slavery in some wider societal manner, I think it becomes devoid of intent and becomes simply a world building device to make of it whatever every individual person does.
The thing with Mulhorand is that goes borderline with racial supremacism. They enslave anyone of non-Mulan heritage, for instance. As for the POC stuff, you should remember they displaced the turami from their homeland...
Call me "woke" or whatever, but I just don't like that kind of stuff. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 08 Aug 2021 : 02:02:33
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Celebrating slavery because "is just fantasy" is not right. Depriving a person of their freedom (freedom of speech, freedom of choice, whatever other freedom you may think about) is never a positive thing. So, portraying slavery (whether they are well treated or not) as a good thing is like saying that oppression is a good thing.
-So anything distasteful should not be featured? Not trying to put words in your mouth, trying to understand.
-Products where the lines between featuring things we consider problematic from a moral point of view and actually being harmful propaganda become blurred, like The Turner Diaries or a written compilation of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion for example, yes, I agree. But something that presents whatever that distasteful thing is in a dispassionate or informative way (as in explaining that X occurs and this is how it occurs), why does that also need to be shied away from?
-Just sticking with the slavery thing, if the original products made it very obvious that Mulhorandi or Thayvian slavers were paper thin stand-ins for antebellum southern merchants/plantation owners, that they only enslaved dark skin peoples seized from another land that they considered subhuman, and were very graphic and almost took glee in the writing, I would 100% agree that crosses the line. But when enough detail is made to create a distinct culture (the Mulhorandi are a little too Ancient Egyptian, but close enough) that incorporates slavery in some wider societal manner, I think it becomes devoid of intent and becomes simply a world building device to make of it whatever every individual person does. |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 07 Aug 2021 : 23:14:07
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Definitely more tribes please. Different origin for some tribes works for me.
I just read today that the kobolds of the ice lakes by old Illusk wiped out local Uthgardt, could have been a whole tribe unnamed. Same goes for any area suspiciously devoid of the Uthgardt.
Part of me doesn't want to derail this scroll anymore than it already has been. But I must ask what resource is that kobold reference from? Been researching kobolds lately and would love to read more about them. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Aug 2021 : 23:05:41
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Great Worm, or Golden Eagle?
It's the "the unknown one"..... the tribe of the Purple Panther... the ones who were thought to have died out long ago fighting the tribe of the yellow snowman.
Black Lions actually. Who I've decided (for my personal canon ...   ) to have a rather different origin than the other tribes.
But I was thinking that I'd like to make more defunct Uthgardt tribes. Flabbergasted that there was never a White Boar tribe or Green Stag tribe, etc. Hmm ...
-- George Krashos
I like the idea of a "green stag" tribe, if its using wildleaf stags (something I came up with in Anchorome, but have yet to actually stat... but kind of unicorn like deer... and I say unicorn like only in the way they fit in the ecosystem, not duplicating abilities). Me and AJA were discussing using some in his 5 NPC's thread like last month'ish (he had a "Yellow Birch-Stag" in the Westwood, and I said basically what if its multiple stags and they're using connecting portals from around the world, and these got here via "The Place of the Unicorn" which is near there).
If you are interested, some notes from the thread below. AJA seemed amenable to the idea. Could be that these stags are found in the High Forest as well, but deep in there, such that only elves know about them. They might live amongst hybsil as well.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
The Yellow Birch-Stag
A glorious golden buck, long-spotted throughout the Westwood. Said to be a woodland companion of Mielikki herself, and to be able to barkskin at will through some unknown weal or innate ability. Legend has it that only the most skillful and fleet hunter could win past its defenses and bring it down. Many have tried, and it seems that the Birch-Stag enjoys sporting with them on occasion, sometimes leading them on a merry chase before disappearing, and sometimes leading them right into the midst of an orc hunting camp or owlbear den.
regarding this buck, I have a sneaking suspicion that it should be "bucks", and I believe that they may have come through a portal in "The Place of the Unicorn" west of Leilon from the Adusgee Forest of Anchorome. They may be wildleaf stags, seen mainly in autumn when the coloring of their hide changes to a rich golden hue. It's been rumored that the site known as Raelkath's Sprout is the source of a randomly moving portal network that seems to open all over Toril for very brief moments (rumors of it periodically opening into the southern portion of the Yuirwood near Relkath's Foot have been mentioned at least thrice in the past millenium). It may be that either these are distinctly wildleaf stags OR a wildleaf stag has come through and mated with a regular elk and produced a new breed (or even a unicorn, for the truth of the birthing of wildleaf stags is unusual as well, being as they result from a breeding of shatjan and dryad that occasionally results in offspring that is like neither parent).
from the "Brainstorming Anchorome" thread
Wildleaf Stag of the Adusgee Forest : This unusual form of reindeer possesses horns and hooves of evergrowing wood, as well as a coat not of fur, but rather leaves. In the spring and summer, these leaves are a vibrant green, but in the fall they turn rich reds, browns, and oranges. In the winter, they do not lose their wooden antlers, but they do lose all of their leaves, revealing a pale white fibrous skin. These creatures are notedly hard to track for their natural ability to pass without trace. They also possess a latent ability to perform the druidcraft cantrip, but only in the form of making seeds sprout, flowers bloom, etc.... Their fecal matter is a prized fertilizer, and the snow elves of the north like to trim their leaves before they fall off for winter in order to treat them alchemically to be woven into armor. There are at least three different varieties of Wildleaf stag, each variety possessing different druidic powers in relation to plants, but all seem to possess an ability to transport via plant. These creatures are primarily found in the northwestern portion of the forest, near Raelkath's Sprout, but a large number of them also appear in the vale currently held by the Abeil in the center of the forest.
|
| PattPlays |
Posted - 07 Aug 2021 : 10:24:09
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Definitely more tribes please. Different origin for some tribes works for me.
I just read today that the kobolds of the ice lakes by old Illusk wiped out local Uthgardt, could have been a whole tribe unnamed. Same goes for any area suspiciously devoid of the Uthgardt. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 07 Aug 2021 : 08:26:46
Definitely more tribes please. Different origin for some tribes works for me. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Aug 2021 : 06:19:46
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Great Worm, or Golden Eagle?
It's the "the unknown one"..... the tribe of the Purple Panther... the ones who were thought to have died out long ago fighting the tribe of the yellow snowman.
Black Lions actually. Who I've decided (for my personal canon ... ) to have a rather different origin than the other tribes.
But I was thinking that I'd like to make more defunct Uthgardt tribes. Flabbergasted that there was never a White Boar tribe or Green Stag tribe, etc. Hmm ...
-- George Krashos |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Aug 2021 : 20:19:42
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Great Worm, or Golden Eagle?
It's the "the unknown one"..... the tribe of the Purple Panther... the ones who were thought to have died out long ago fighting the tribe of the yellow snowman. |
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