| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 11 Apr 2020 : 22:55:07
I honestly want to know. Does anyone have any idea if The Vampire Manshoon is a regular Vampire that adheres to the nocturnal vampire template, OR is he a Vampire Lord who can walk in the daylight among other mortals?
From what snippets I could get from "The Herald", it seems the Vampire Manshoon has the Vampire Lord Template, as he can walk the city streets among mortals and drink alcohol in the taverns.
Not sure if I have that correct, but that's what I'm getting.
Anyone have any ideas, opinions or cannon they can share? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 09 May 2020 : 23:47:22
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
...I have to ask, why do you get so defensive about people arguing over canon Manshoon if your homebrew matters to you so much? If your Manshoon is really an amnesiac giant smurf that had an unfortunate painting accident, that's your Manshoon.
Also, epic level spellcasters walk around with all kinds of permanent magical effects. Does Manshoon expect epic mage duels every time he steps out for groceries?
Yes he does actually. Manshoon never leaves his place of safety unless he feels confident or alarmed.
It says in the book, The Herald... that Vampire Manshoon eluded to "WE" and "US" after talking about himself to Mirt. Also, any spellcaster as powerful as Manshoon could cast several spells to prevent Mirts item from enacting. I'm just confused as to the writing. Why didn't Vampire Manshoon come back and fry Mirt in the book? So very easily done. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 09 May 2020 : 09:32:32
...I have to ask, why do you get so defensive about people arguing over canon Manshoon if your homebrew matters to you so much? If your Manshoon is really an amnesiac giant smurf that had an unfortunate painting accident, that's your Manshoon.
Also, epic level spellcasters walk around with all kinds of permanent magical effects. Does Manshoon expect epic mage duels every time he steps out for groceries? |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 09 May 2020 : 02:35:59
Wow... you guys need stand up gigs. NOT!!
Fine. Manshoon clone Number "Vampire" is not a Vampire lord in your eyes. cool. I can dig that. But in our game he is a Vampire Lord! Top Dog in that guild.
Being able to walk in the daylight without the use of spells allows him to fill those spell slots with other killing spells of all levels. As a spell caster, when you hit epic level you need to focus on solitary crap in order to dominate. Why would an Epic Manshoon waste spell-slots on making sure he is immune to sunliught and other undead traits?
It seems obvious to me that such occured... Manshoon was bitten and turned into a Vamire by the leader and ruler of the Westgate thieves/Assassins guild. Manshoon being an epic NPC slew his captor and master and became the leader of the guild of Westgate. During this very quick change of power, Manshoon became a Vampire Lord, having destroyed his maker and taking on his power. Now Manshoon has all the abilities of his former self while adding on the Vampire Lord template to boot. That explanation alone should serve as a reason why he is a Vampire Lord and not just a powerful arcane casting vampire.
I've heard rumors that Vampire Lord Manshoon has acquired three Wild elf Werewolves as bodyguards. Each Green elf lycanthrope being a Ranger/ Cleric of Fenmarel Mestarine twisted to evil. Legend has it that all three were siblings. Two brothers and a sister.
Malakithiialil Thornbrow
Shressiifax Thornbrow
Melansandra Thornbrow
But whatever... it's just homebrew |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 05 May 2020 : 00:47:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Vampshoon has few of the weaknesses of vampires. The only weaknesses he seems to have is Elminster.
He has another weakness: he's terrified that someone might find out he's a brony. 
[morbid curiosity]Let's lure him to a place where a herd of pegasi live. [/morbid curiosity] |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 18:36:01
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Vampshoon has few of the weaknesses of vampires. The only weaknesses he seems to have is Elminster.
He has another weakness: he's terrified that someone might find out he's a brony. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 16:30:31
Yes, there's a reason why Manshoon is often compared to Pokemon's Team Rocket. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 04 May 2020 : 16:28:11
Vampshoon has few of the weaknesses of vampires. The only weaknesses he seems to have is Elminster.
|
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 03 May 2020 : 17:54:35
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
The Vampire Lord Manshoon: CE human Vampire Lord of The Moonsea. Wizard 15/ Archmage 5/ Arcane Lord 5. CR; 28. That would be my guess.
Canon Manshoons is a Wiz 20 Acm 5.
Your Manshoon... doesn't qualify for arcane Lord. He'd have to be a minimum of level 23 to qualify, as he needs Epic Spellcasting and Improved Spell Capacity.
I also think that from a lore standpoint, he doesn't fit either. An argument could be made for Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon during their mortal years, but when I think Arcane Lord, I think Larloch.anshoon doesn't have the kind of single minded dedication and obsession with magic needed for the class.
I'll have to get my books out to find Arcane lord again. I think you're correct. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 13:36:38
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
“Only A Woman Can Take This Sort Of Abuse” is one of the worst titles I’ve ever read in a long time. Like, that’s abhorrent. What is it?
Great stories for the 7 sisters. Or are we down to 4 now? lol.
Three: Alustriel, Storm and Laeral
Alustriel... unbeatable in Silverymoon. Vulnerable anywhere else, like any other wizard.
Storm... Gathered some power from her dead sisters and pretty much just kept being herself.
Laeral is dead like her husband, The Blackstaff. giving their life for the newly risen elven kingdom in the High Moors.
Maybe you mean The Simbul? The WitchQueen of Aglarond? The Third most powerful mortal on Faerun.
First would be The Shrinshee. Most powerful being on Faerun.
Second would be Larloch.
Third would be Elminster.
Fourth would be The WitchQueen.
Fifth would be The Magister?
A resounding No. I addressed your question about how many Silverhand Sisters are still alive. There was nothing about an inquiry into relative power among spellcasters.
- Four of the Seven Sisters are dead (or at least merged into the Weave). The only three that are alive and kicking are Alustriel, Storm and Laeral.
- Srinshee is an ancient moon elf born back long before the capital of Cormanthor became dubbed Myth Drannor. Clearly not a Sister.
- Elminster and Larloch cannot be sisters for rather obvious reasons.
- The Magister generally cannot be Chosen (let alone a Sister) and the Magister at the same time.
- Witch Queen is an appellation given to Alassra aka the Simbul. She gave her life to help Elminster and hence is dead.
- Laeral is the current Open Lord of Waterdeep. As with Mark Twain, rumors of her death are greatly exaggerated.
On the main topic, Manshoon is known more for his abilities and experience as an archmage than for any vampiric traits for one of the clones. As a wizard who is at ease tossing around 9th level wizard spells, the Vampshoon clone can handle sunlight with or without being a vampire lord. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 07:54:35
That's nice, but your build doesn't work mechanically on the basis of Manshoon not qualifying for it. If he has arcane Lord levels, he'd have to be a wizard 23 at minimum.
The other issue is that arcane Lord simply doesn't fit. It's the class for single minded devotion to magic, which isn't Manshoon's niche. Larloch and arguably Sammaster (who's actually an excellent fit for the Incantatar prc) fit in terms of single-minded devotion to magic as an art and a science. Manshoon, on the other hand, has other material concerns.
Incidentally, here's an updated Manshoon:http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22205
|
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 06:50:46
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
The Vampire Lord Manshoon: CE human Vampire Lord of The Moonsea. Wizard 15/ Archmage 5/ Arcane Lord 5. CR; 28. That would be my guess.
Canon Manshoons is a Wiz 20 Acm 5.
Your Manshoon... doesn't qualify for arcane Lord. He'd have to be a minimum of level 23 to qualify, as he needs Epic Spellcasting and Improved Spell Capacity.
I also think that from a lore standpoint, he doesn't fit either. An argument could be made for Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon during their mortal years, but when I think Arcane Lord, I think Larloch.anshoon doesn't have the kind of single minded dedication and obsession with magic needed for the class.
I object. Manshoon does have all the things he needs to pull this off. Not to say he intended to wake up a vampire at all. Manshoon is totally capable of pulling this off as a living being. Then enter Vampire Lord Manshoon. Orbakh if you will? Grandmaster of The Night Masks. As powerful as living Clone Manshoon, but with the added awesomeness of a powerful undead template added on.
To me alone... A Vampire Lord version of the wizard Manshoon is far more powerful than the living Manshoon clone/ clones. Just going by books and rules and such. I pull my Vampshoon at CR 28. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 06:22:58
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
The Vampire Lord Manshoon: CE human Vampire Lord of The Moonsea. Wizard 15/ Archmage 5/ Arcane Lord 5. CR; 28. That would be my guess.
Canon Manshoons is a Wiz 20 Acm 5.
Your Manshoon... doesn't qualify for arcane Lord. He'd have to be a minimum of level 23 to qualify, as he needs Epic Spellcasting and Improved Spell Capacity.
I also think that from a lore standpoint, he doesn't fit either. An argument could be made for Azuth, Savras and Velsharoon during their mortal years, but when I think Arcane Lord, I think Larloch.anshoon doesn't have the kind of single minded dedication and obsession with magic needed for the class. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 05:49:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
In no particular order, Larloch, the Srinshee, Rhangaun, Telamont, Kartak Spellseer, Shoon VII, Aumvor, Sharn, Ioulaum and the Teraseer. The Magister is nowhere near the top ten, she's a 20th level caster.
Alustriel suffers from being powerful enough to trivially solve most of Drizzts problems, so she gets worfed. Otherwise the entire drow invasion would have been looking at the business end of a pair of solar and an elemental army.
Yes, just brushed up on a thread about this on Candlekeep. Laeral is NOT dead. My bad. I confess I had bad lore. Her husband gave his life for the ancient elven kingdom in The High Moor.
I believe Alustriel Silverhand can hold her own in a spell duel. Bound to the SilverGate as she is. She wields great power as a arcane caster on top of being a Chosen of Mystra and pulling power from the Silverymoon Mythallar. (Not Mythal)
There's no mythallar in Silverymoon, that was a Netherese thing. Silverymoon's mythal is canon and, as I recently found out from Ed, not the retcon that I'd suspected it to be.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 05:39:06
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
In no particular order, Larloch, the Srinshee, Rhangaun, Telamont, Kartak Spellseer, Shoon VII, Aumvor, Sharn, Ioulaum and the Teraseer. The Magister is nowhere near the top ten, she's a 20th level caster.
Alustriel suffers from being powerful enough to trivially solve most of Drizzts problems, so she gets worfed. Otherwise the entire drow invasion would have been looking at the business end of a pair of solar and an elemental army.
I believe Alustriel Silverhand can hold her own in a spell duel. Bound to the SilverGate as she is. She wields great power as a arcane caster on top of being a Chosen of Mystra and pulling power from the Silverymoon Mythallar. (Not Mythal)
There's no mythallar in Silverymoon, that was a Netherese thing. Silverymoon's mythal is canon and, as I recently found out from Ed, not the retcon that I'd suspected it to be. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 05:36:50
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
“Only A Woman Can Take This Sort Of Abuse” is one of the worst titles I’ve ever read in a long time. Like, that’s abhorrent. What is it?
Great stories for the 7 sisters. Or are we down to 4 now? lol.
Three: Alustriel, Storm and Laeral
Alustriel... unbeatable in Silverymoon. Vulnerable anywhere else, like any other wizard.
Storm... Gathered some power from her dead sisters and pretty much just kept being herself.
Laeral is dead like her husband, The Blackstaff. giving their life for the newly risen elven kingdom in the High Moors.
Maybe you mean The Simbul? The WitchQueen of Aglarond? The Third most powerful mortal on Faerun.
First would be The Shrinshee. Most powerful being on Faerun.
Second would be Larloch.
Third would be Elminster.
Fourth would be The WitchQueen.
Fifth would be The Magister?
Laeral did not die. She's the current Open Lord of Waterdeep. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 04:52:15
The Vampire Lord Manshoon: CE human Vampire Lord of The Moonsea. Wizard 15/ Archmage 5/ Arcane Lord 5. CR; 28. That would be my guess.
|
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 04:40:29
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
In no particular order, Larloch, the Srinshee, Rhangaun, Telamont, Kartak Spellseer, Shoon VII, Aumvor, Sharn, Ioulaum and the Teraseer. The Magister is nowhere near the top ten, she's a 20th level caster.
Alustriel suffers from being powerful enough to trivially solve most of Drizzts problems, so she gets worfed. Otherwise the entire drow invasion would have been looking at the business end of a pair of solar and an elemental army.
I believe Alustriel Silverhand can hold her own in a spell duel. Bound to the SilverGate as she is. She wields great power as a arcane caster on top of being a Chosen of Mystra and pulling power from the Silverymoon Mythallar. (Not Mythal) |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 04:02:10
In no particular order, Larloch, the Srinshee, Rhangaun, Telamont, Kartak Spellseer, Shoon VII, Aumvor, Sharn, Ioulaum and the Teraseer. The Magister is nowhere near the top ten, she's a 20th level caster.
Alustriel suffers from being powerful enough to trivially solve most of Drizzts problems, so she gets worfed. Otherwise the entire drow invasion would have been looking at the business end of a pair of solar and an elemental army. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 03:33:03
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
“Only A Woman Can Take This Sort Of Abuse” is one of the worst titles I’ve ever read in a long time. Like, that’s abhorrent. What is it?
Great stories for the 7 sisters. Or are we down to 4 now? lol.
Three: Alustriel, Storm and Laeral
Alustriel... unbeatable in Silverymoon. Vulnerable anywhere else, like any other wizard.
Storm... Gathered some power from her dead sisters and pretty much just kept being herself.
Laeral is dead like her husband, The Blackstaff. giving their life for the newly risen elven kingdom in the High Moors.
Maybe you mean The Simbul? The WitchQueen of Aglarond? The Third most powerful mortal on Faerun.
First would be The Shrinshee. Most powerful being on Faerun.
Second would be Larloch.
Third would be Elminster.
Fourth would be The WitchQueen.
Fifth would be The Magister? |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 02 May 2020 : 00:51:42
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
“Only A Woman Can Take This Sort Of Abuse” is one of the worst titles I’ve ever read in a long time. Like, that’s abhorrent. What is it?
Great stories for the 7 sisters. Or are we down to 4 now? lol.
Three: Alustriel, Storm and Laeral |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 01 May 2020 : 22:36:32
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
“Only A Woman Can Take This Sort Of Abuse” is one of the worst titles I’ve ever read in a long time. Like, that’s abhorrent. What is it?
Great stories for the 7 sisters. Or are we down to 4 now? lol. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 11:38:42
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
“Only A Woman Can Take This Sort Of Abuse” is one of the worst titles I’ve ever read in a long time. Like, that’s abhorrent. What is it?
It was one of the Spin A Yarn stories. It was a thing for a while that Ed would go to GenCon and there would be an event where people would throw all sorts of crazy topics and references at Ed, and he would then go through and fold it all into some goofy Forgotten Realms story.
As I recall, the story in question wasn't referring to physical abuse or anything like that -- it was more a thing of "only a woman would be able to deal with this sort of situation." |
| keftiu |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 09:06:55
“Only A Woman Can Take This Sort Of Abuse” is one of the worst titles I’ve ever read in a long time. Like, that’s abhorrent. What is it? |
| AJA |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 04:51:25
Listen, just because you're SO MAD GRRR at Wooly and you've obviously been seething over something Krash said in another thread entirely doesn't mean you need to involve me in this. Also,
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire (in the first post of this thread)
As I remember... after The Manshoon wars... only 3 Manshoons remained. 1 was "The True" Manshoon. Another was The Vampire Manshoon of Westgate and a last and lonely Manshoon that sought to manipulate the others to his patient will.
Which is the true Manshoon, and is the Vampire Manshoon a Vampire Lord or not?
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
As far as I am concerned, the only "true" Manshoon is the one from Ed's 2003 spin-a-yarn Only a Woman Can Take This Sort of Abuse, who forgot how to stasis clone but learned to like fishnets.
This is the topic.
|
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 04:10:19
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
So, does that make Fzoul=Riff and Sememmon=Magenta?
Fzoul, definitely, although I think Semmemon (and Ashemmi) are better as Columbia and Meatloaf. And Volo is abso-lutely Dr. Scott.
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Must be from being cooped up in our homes for an extended period of time.
I told Wooly, I said hey, listen to me! Stay sane inside insanity. But he locked the door and threw away the key.
Can we stay on topic here please? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 03:45:31
It's "canon," not "cannon." And no one cares about combining homebrew and canon -- we all do it. The "insults" you refer to are people asking for asking for canon references to your assertions or saying something is problematic.
Finding fault with a person's statements or ideas, and finding fault with that person -- these are not the same thing. People are trying to help you, not attack you. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 03:18:02
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
No matter how someone conducts themself, ableist insults are uncalled for.
Insults? Have you read the insults I get on a daily basis on these boards, just because I combine cannon and homebrew? Whatever. This is my Thread, so please reply with anything Vampire Manshoon related, or just keep the insults to yourselves.
Keftiu, you're good. Just using your post as a final post to end the malarkey. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 02:48:46
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
To be honest I have no clue why you even bother to argue with Copper Elven Vampire. Each of his posts read like they have been written by an 8 year old and it's getting really annoying...
 Yeah, if an 8 year old was highly intelligent and articulate. But, SIGH... more trolls. BLOCKED!!! lol. Next?
I'll try not to dip down to your level. And who are you again? Jarlaxle?? lol. Prison fodder. |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 28 Apr 2020 : 02:41:24
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Yes, he's a very powerful wizard who happens to be a vampire. There's no reason for him to be a vampire lord when in universe his wizardry already explains why he's not bothered by sunlight.
Although, if you're so hung up on it, there are these lines in the template;
"A vampire lord was formerly a vampire under the control of another vampire (not a vampire lord) and has slain its creator. Further, the vampire lord must have created at least 10 vampires and survived an assassination attempt by one of its subjects before achieving vampire lord status."
So who was Vampshoon's boss, who were his ten creations, and who tried to kill him?
That's wonderful to think about. Along the lines of what I've been asking all this time. Thanks. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Apr 2020 : 11:56:41
Agreed. We've got enough to disagree about without insulting each other, as well. |
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