| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 05:36:17
A few friends and I were discussing the proper term for groups of creatures, of course we quickly moved on to fantasy creatures.
We eventually got to Beholders... all our searching yielded nothing. Even dug up the old Ecology article from Dragon 76 that Ed had a hand in still nothing.
Anyone have any ideas or "definitive" source?
Our top two contenders were a Bunch of Beholders or, my favorite, a Bouquet of Beholders. We figured it would be amusing the compare them to flowers, beauty in the eye of and all, but also all the eye stock kind of reminded us of a bunch of flowers. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 20 Jun 2018 : 05:20:23
Yeah I had searched out the old Dragon article nothing there.
I do remember hive being used maybe it was in the BG games. Cluster is another good catch I would have never found.
My favorite so far has to be:
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
A tyranny of beholders?
But I prefer using it as a tyranny of eye tyrants. Think I am going to run with it next time the occasion arises. |
| Thraskir Skimper |
Posted - 16 Jun 2018 : 05:15:26
Corps (core) as in Mulmaster Beholder Corps.
https://issuu.com/kaltses/docs/_1983___dragon_magazine__the_ecolog
Ed & Roger don't say. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 18:53:27
There was once a glimpse of beholders.... but that referred more to how much the person saw after turning the corner before he was blasted to death. |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 17:23:32
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The "black cover" 2E Monster Manual (TSR 2140B) has a large section on beholders and beholder-kin. In which the plural is passingly referenced as a "cluster of beholders".
A "float of beholders" also sounds pretty good to me. Old Monster Manuals assert that "sphere of many eyes" and "eye tyrant" are (supposedly) more common names for these monsters than "beholder", although 2E later defined "eye tyrant" as a specific subspecies. So maybe a "globe of beholders". Or even an "orbit of beholders" (if you like double-entendres).
A cluster of Beholders, interesting. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 16:17:42
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But how about an eyeful of beholders? 
Well, you know how they say — beauty is in the eye of the beholder... but the rest of the party is in its stomach.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The "black cover" 2E Monster Manual (TSR 2140B) has a large section on beholders and beholder-kin. In which the plural is passingly referenced as a "cluster of beholders".
Yup. See the previous page. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 13:08:40
The "black cover" 2E Monster Manual (TSR 2140B) has a large section on beholders and beholder-kin. In which the plural is passingly referenced as a "cluster of beholders".
A "float of beholders" also sounds pretty good to me. Old Monster Manuals assert that "sphere of many eyes" and "eye tyrant" are (supposedly) more common names for these monsters than "beholder", although 2E later defined "eye tyrant" as a specific subspecies. So maybe a "globe of beholders". Or even an "orbit of beholders" (if you like double-entendres). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 10:47:54
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
A tyranny of beholders?
-- George Krashos
That's a good one. 
But how about an eyeful of beholders? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 10:08:58
A tyranny of beholders?
-- George Krashos |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 05:51:47
I like goggle - like a gaggle with many eyes :P |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 04:44:59
I've suggested a goggle of beholders, in the past. Or maybe a glare.
Or flock. That is my general collective term for just about anything. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 03:35:48
Beholders living in "hives" has many sources in FR, the actual den of such a hive sometimes being called "warrens." It also comes from 1st & 2nd Ed AD&D sources and spelljammer... most likely there are a couple Dragon Mag articles as well but that's just a guess. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 03:29:54
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think I'd go with a "torment of tyrants" or a "spectrum of beholders".
I like torment, but spectrum alludes to a light... I'm guessing you're going for something about the eyes, but to me its more like spectrum means the source of light not its endpiont. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 03:24:42
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.
Worth discussing as a sidebar. I can think of Formians and Bacar (both are ants) and Abeil (bee people) and illithids.
I'm not sure that I'd include illithids, there... To me, a hive mind implies one mind controlling many bodies, with each body being either entirely dependent on that hive mind or greatly diminished when apart from it. Illithids gain from being part of the mental collective, but they can function perfectly well independently, and even when part of the collective are still independent entities.
My favorite hive minds from fantasy and sci-fi are the cho-ja from the Riftwar books, and Rook Gestalt from the book The Rook.
The cho-ja were much like the thri-kreen, physically. They lived in hives, and the Queen of each hive bred workers, soldiers, and other queens. And like many insects, the workers were specialized for one function, like feeding others, mating, providing ventilation, or crafting. The warriors had some independence, but the rest were fully part of the hive mind. And the Queen acted as a sort of node for the hive mind; the hive mind contained all the memories of all the cho-ja to have lived -- so it was a racial memory, as well as a hive mind. It also meant that the entire race was essentially one eternal consciousness.
Gestalt, from The Rook, was one human mind with four bodies: a brother and sister that were fraternal twins, and two other brothers. Gestalt could control any one or all four of his bodies simultaneously, to the point of having martial arts sparring matches with himself or acting as 4 members of a special forces unit. Gestalt could also withdraw from any of his bodies, leaving that body mindless and inactive. Other people, when discussing upcoming meetings with Gestalt or something, would have to ask which bodies were going to be in attendance.
|
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 23:27:06
A pension of Beholders! ??? |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 23:22:16
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just found two things, since I had some time for the Google-Fu:
A prior discussion, here in our halls: Terms of Venery - Names for groups of things
And a graphic:
The Stoakes-Whibley Natural Index of Supernatural Collective Nouns, some of which can be used for D&D critters.
Two Words
Holy Cr@p
Good link!
I was thinking, would you consider a Beholder almost alien like to the realms? (Also, now I think of it Mind Flayers Are infact alien to Toril) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 22:38:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.
Worth discussing as a sidebar. I can think of Formians and Bacar (both are ants) and Abeil (bee people) and illithids.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 22:35:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just found two things, since I had some time for the Google-Fu:
A prior discussion, here in our halls: Terms of Venery - Names for groups of things
And a graphic:
The Stoakes-Whibley Natural Index of Supernatural Collective Nouns, some of which can be used for D&D critters.
Two Words
Holy Cr@p |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 19:50:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.
I agree that there is no one instance of a hive Beholders in lore, but this is D&D, you never know.
I was looking around, and Cranium Rats (and supposedly at one time) a group of Mind Flayers (but I'm unsure of that). I would also assume Insects fall in that hive mind category |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 19:20:18
I believe one of Eds forging the realms articles deals with how beholder operate (or at least one of them) I think it was entitled the xorlarrin (sp) but I could be making that up |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 18:39:56
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that. |
| Elren_Wolfsbane |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 18:26:39
Beholder's have immense telepathic powers that could indicate hive mind (hell, they give birth by just thinking of another beholder
Take in consideration what a hive mind means. Here I will focus on the second meaning of the definition.
Hive mind:
Psychology, Sociology.
a collective consciousness, analogous to the behavior of social insects, in which a group of people become aware of their commonality and think and act as a community, sharing their knowledge, thoughts, and resources.
such a group mentality characterized by uncritical conformity and loss of a sense of individuality and personal accountability.
So, can you really say each individual Beholder is not their own being, with it's own personality, etc... |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 16:20:39
Beholder hives are mentioned occasionally in realmslore, the alimir hive, etc. |
| Starshade |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 15:23:52
Like in a tower of giraffes, a cauldron of bats?
Tbh this is the first time 'hive' is mentioned related to beholders. Not sure it's a good match, but it is at least more meaningful than speaking of flying cauldrons. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 13:36:00
Use the words you would say upon meetingnsuch a group of monsters.
So for example a group of adventurers encounters 5 beholders and the first thing they say is.
"Oh holy merciful mother of aaargh, the eyes, urrrrgh, the teeth, heeeelllllppppp . . . . . . . ."
And that is the term used to describe a group of beholders |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 13:25:11
Just found two things, since I had some time for the Google-Fu:
A prior discussion, here in our halls: Terms of Venery - Names for groups of things
And a graphic:
The Stoakes-Whibley Natural Index of Supernatural Collective Nouns, some of which can be used for D&D critters. |
| Storyteller Hero |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 11:17:25
A gaggle of beholders.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 08:46:56
I think I'd go with a "torment of tyrants" or a "spectrum of beholders". |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 00:20:01
quote:
Originally posted by Taleras
I like a "murder of Beholders" personally!
I had thought of that, but I like keeping that reserved for crows :) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 16:23:23
Many years ago, I saw a list someone did online that named groups of various D&D monsters... Unfortunately, if I saved it, I don't know what I saved it under, so I can't find it now.  |
| Taleras |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 14:04:15
I like a "murder of Beholders" personally! |
