| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 31 Dec 2017 : 15:44:49
So, as I was just discussing what I would maybe like to see happen with the western shaar and chondalwood, I noted that Innarlith is in ruins in 4e. So, the first thing that pops in my head when I see ruins these days is "it went to Abeir partially".... and it being so close to the Chondalwood that's not out of the picture. So, then I noted that the last magister (Talatha Vaerovree) that we have documented (from Secrets of the Magister and Magic of Faerun) is from Innarlith. Given the idea of "why kill off all our old archmages" my thoughts are... why not have her transfer to Abeir. In fact, maybe she worked with the Halruaans on their spell to stabilize and transfer their homeland. Afterwards maybe she finds her city beset by danger, and she and her people flee south to Halruaa. Thus, we can have after the spellplague the city of Innarlith returned but entirely inhabited by whatever we like. The city may not be repaired, and in fact it may now be surrounded by jungle with a century to grow up.
My first thought here is to turn Innarlith into a surface city of evil drow. Maybe they've enslaved a portion of the human populace that was in the city.
Anyway, this would put the current magister as having spent the last century in Halruaa and possibly wanting to lead her people back to their homeland. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2018 : 18:09:57
So now this - and things bouncing-around in other threads - has made me reevaluate my theories on the 'colors of magic'.
I was way off-base thinking it is about Mystra and Shar, when really it was about Selūne (Silver) and Primordial RAW Magic (Blue).
We also have red & purple in the lore, so now I'm thinking its more of an 'alignment' kind of thing, then 'schools' or 'types', but not in the way we used to think about alignments - more like how 4e handled 'power sources'. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 05 Jan 2018 : 17:41:12
quote:
Originally posted by Gareth
Its in "The Many Murders of Manshoon" in the Realms of the Dead anthology.
The story starts 9 Kythorn 1385.
K - definitely not where I thought it was then :P |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Jan 2018 : 12:59:51
quote:
Originally posted by Gareth
Its in "The Many Murders of Manshoon" in the Realms of the Dead anthology.
The story starts 9 Kythorn 1385.
So about a month and a half after the Mystra's Death since it happened somewhere between the 16th-29th of Tarsakh according to the brotherhood of the Griffin novels.
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| Gareth |
Posted - 05 Jan 2018 : 11:43:23
Its in "The Many Murders of Manshoon" in the Realms of the Dead anthology.
The story starts 9 Kythorn 1385.
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| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 03 Jan 2018 : 22:05:08
I think it was WAY post spellplague. I think something about Larloch's magic is connected to the blue-fire of spellplague in Eds books. This is based mostly on the blue-fire items. However, perhaps his magical protections link him to the weave and dole out such punishments from those attempting to impersonate him - similar in many ways to Mystra's curse involved with coping another wizard's sigil. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 03 Jan 2018 : 13:58:57
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
It's actually a bit hard to say. She spews up blue flame after taking the shape of Larloch and Elminster comments that to get his permission would have been "costly". She then expires weeping blue tears. I guess in simple terms, the Spellplague burned her out.
-- George Krashos
Ahh... even more intrigued... so it was not pre or post spellplague, but MID. I'll hunt this down tonight. It may not be, but this seems like some kind of gem we can do something with (as many things are until I actually get into the details).
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 03 Jan 2018 : 07:15:51
It's actually a bit hard to say. She spews up blue flame after taking the shape of Larloch and Elminster comments that to get his permission would have been "costly". She then expires weeping blue tears. I guess in simple terms, the Spellplague burned her out.
-- George Krashos |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 03 Jan 2018 : 02:45:09
If no one does in the next day or two I'll dig em up and look... been a while since I've read Ed anyhow. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 03 Jan 2018 : 02:38:45
Well I can't find the book. I suspect that it was packed with my daughter's books when she moved. Perhaps GK will drop in and offer some insight. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 22:20:56
Think that is either Die El Die or Bury El Deep |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 22:16:57
I'm going to look it up now (if I can find the book that is) but if memory serves, Talatha actually took the appearance of Elminster as bait for Manshoon. I'll get back to you on it in a bit.
@Shadowsoul: As for as I know there isn't one but I could be wrong. |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 17:32:41
Who is the current Magister BTW? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 14:02:06
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I can't remember the exact details but she was killed by Manshoon after the Spellplague hit. As I recall, she was working with Elminster to thwart one of his schemes. Sorry I can't provide more info at the moment. If someone hasn't chimed in by tomorrow I'll try to find the book the story is in and look it up for you.
Hmmm, now I'm even more intrigued because I hadn't even considered the story possibly being post-spellplague. I may have to dig it up myself and reread it. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 02:02:40
I can't remember the exact details but she was killed by Manshoon after the Spellplague hit. As I recall, she was working with Elminster to thwart one of his schemes. Sorry I can't provide more info at the moment. If someone hasn't chimed in by tomorrow I'll try to find the book the story is in and look it up for you. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 01:42:03
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Oh and one other thing. Talatha was killed off as GK mentioned...but that doesn't mean Elminster, who knows many secrets and could reasonably deduce Mystra's will despite the fact that she was 'gone' at the time, couldn't have transformed Talatha into something else. So she could still be around, just as someone or something else.
Don't feel like pulling up the book. How exactly did she die and possibly just as importantly where? Not that I plan on using her now, but it could be interesting if there's some weave ghost or something similar stuck in this ruined city of Innarlith whenever "bad things" show up..... or maybe she was a weave ghost when the spellplague happened and the Halruaans did their spell and she went crazy and someone needs to restore her sanity. Hell, maybe she "sacrificed herself" to create a fledgling mythal to protect some of the populace from the sweeping blue fire (and you can still talk to that sentience). Maybe afterward, due to her sacrifice, the people of this city on Abeir still could cast magic. Hell, maybe her sentient mythal became an "avatar" form for Auppenser on Abeir, because the people in that area had so much Jhaamdathi blood that they were "awakened" psionically. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 00:13:06
quote:
The Choice is not given to EVERY Magister - only those deemed worthy. Several Magisters were magisters for only a moment for example. Imagine one such had a Velsharoon's death pact in effect at the time he accidentally became Magister - this would not be undone. So he or she would be Magister, die and then be ress'd by Velsharoon. I'd argue the same applies for Lichnee.
True, but then I'd argue that such individuals aren't actually Magisters in Mystra's view and I am aware that some individuals weren't worthy because they didn't have time to spread magic and gain the option of Mystra's Choice. Obviously, I didn't mean 'always' to be taken literally, but your point is taken.
quote:
Also, I believe the "restored" Mystra is the old Mystra - pre TOT Mystra.
As for this: Do you have a source for this (because I'd reeeeeally love to read it) or is this supposition? Or at least deduced from evidence you've seen (if so, please point me to it). |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 02 Jan 2018 : 00:02:31
The Choice is not given to EVERY Magister - only those deemed worthy. Several Magisters were magisters for only a moment for example. Imagine one such had a Velsharoon's death pact in effect at the time he accidentally became Magister - this would not be undone. So he or she would be Magister, die and then be ress'd by Velsharoon. I'd argue the same applies for Lichnee.
Also, I believe the "restored" Mystra is the old Mystra - pre TOT Mystra. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 23:36:29
Oh and one other thing. Talatha was killed off as GK mentioned...but that doesn't mean Elminster, who knows many secrets and could reasonably deduce Mystra's will despite the fact that she was 'gone' at the time, couldn't have transformed Talatha into something else. So she could still be around, just as someone or something else. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 23:33:31
quote:
That's what I don't get about the Magister gig... The Magister is supposed to be a servant of Mystra, but a large part of Magister-ing is running from mages who want to take that title from you.
To me, it would be more reasonable if the Magister was basically hidden from all other mages, so they could go about their service in peace and actually accomplish something. Or maybe if only Mystra and her most trusted servants even knew there was a Magister.
One Magister referred to the position as Mystra's Honeyed Trap. I think the previous Mystra (the Lawful Neutral one that fell during the Avatar Crisis) created the office to give mages something to strive for (as in those that she would never consider making her Chosen). It also seems to me that the office carried an important lesson: That all power comes with a price.
As to your second point/idea. I agree. With Mystra now restored it's possible that a new Magister could be elevated in secret with no chance of losing the position by being challenged and defeated. They can work in secret with Mystra's blessing and, when the time comes, they may step down or be removed from office by Mystra to appoint another.
I rather like the idea of the Magister being secret, in fact. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 23:28:49
quote:
They are also allowed their own means of self restoration, as the Mantle of office passes with their death, any post-death contingency (like an Elminster's Evasion, for example). Also, there is nothing about being Magister that prevents undeath.
I figure many of them have done so..
One of my fun little Realms hobbies is to give details to res'd or undead former Magisters :)
Mystra's Magister is always given a choice upon their defeat (which does not, necessarily, mean death) to transform into something else. Some have become Chosen (Noumea Darthchuld took this option), others have become shadowstaves, others have become dragons, magical 'fields' or items of power. I suppose one could become undead but I don't know of any that took that option and I think Mystra would frown/prevent such a choice because one cannot become Magister if they're undead...but I may be wrong on that point. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 23:22:43
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I agree with Wooly - I could never really wrap my head around The Magister. Seems more like a curse bestowed by a cruel god.
As for whether The Magicter is alive or dead; Canon-schmanon. The only people who care about continuity any more are the people at WotC...
Oh wait... no they don't. 
The Magister makes perfect sense to me. The office of Magister is the spectacle... which is the core of every advertising campaign ever: the wizard they can point to and say see - THAT is real power.
It is also the outlet for the foolish and power mad to direct their spell upon instead of the world at large, as well as the coveted prize that drives all such in the creation of ever new and greater magic.
The Magister is the most "Mystra" thing about the realms if you ask me. It was the preponderance of goody-goody Chosen that never made sense to me - Mystra's choice of Chosen is not even a little Neutral.
Well of course not. She wants magic spread for the benefit of all -- and benefitting everyone is something goodly folk would be inclined to do, not neutrals, and certainly not evil folk. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 23:11:13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I agree with Wooly - I could never really wrap my head around The Magister. Seems more like a curse bestowed by a cruel god.
As for whether The Magicter is alive or dead; Canon-schmanon. The only people who care about continuity any more are the people at WotC...
Oh wait... no they don't.
The Magister makes perfect sense to me. The office of Magister is the spectacle... which is the core of every advertising campaign ever: the wizard they can point to and say see - THAT is real power.
It is also the outlet for the foolish and power mad to direct their spell upon instead of the world at large, as well as the coveted prize that drives all such in the creation of ever new and greater magic.
The Magister is the most "Mystra" thing about the realms if you ask me. It was the preponderance of goody-goody Chosen that never made sense to me - Mystra's choice of Chosen is not even a little Neutral. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 17:03:38
Im turning the magister into a clerical symbol.
The fledgling church of mystra needed to spread its worship far and wide among the disparate peoples of netheril, jhaamdath, etc.
So the church devises a ritual (with divine help if you prefer that sort of thing) which imbues the target with super magic powers.
They then offer this gift to mages in far off lands to try and gain converts (the imbued has to agree to convert to mystra) so they gain a single convert immediately and when people see how awesome this new mystra worshipper is they gain more converts.
The downside is that the power passes to whoever slays the imbued (although it can be withdrawn and given to another by the church).
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| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 16:13:29
I agree with Wooly - I could never really wrap my head around The Magister. Seems more like a curse bestowed by a cruel god.
As for whether The Magicter is alive or dead; Canon-schmanon. The only people who care about continuity any more are the people at WotC...
Oh wait... no they don't. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 15:31:36
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
On a sidenote, man becoming magister MUST be effectively a death sentence.
That's what I don't get about the Magister gig... The Magister is supposed to be a servant of Mystra, but a large part of Magister-ing is running from mages who want to take that title from you.
To me, it would be more reasonable if the Magister was basically hidden from all other mages, so they could go about their service in peace and actually accomplish something. Or maybe if only Mystra and her most trusted servants even knew there was a Magister. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 12:48:00
Oh, just a sidenote, because even if Talatha is no longer the magister, we can make still use Innarlith... but one thing I didn't note above but its something to think about in scenarios like this... so I was saying possibly a dragonlord and dragonborn servants (which isn't concrete), but I would specify that the dragonlord would likely stay in Abeir, and he's simply lost a small city filled with dragonborn. It could also be interesting if these aren't dragonborn but something that is similar enough that the local populace is confused and dragonborn are accused of atrocities (say dragonkin ... or half-dragon lizard folk). Of course, this can also be done whether we transfer Innarlith to Abeir or not. If the city was just ruined by the spellplague and no one wanted to visit there anymore (which is a very likely reason for it to fail actually.... sometimes it helps to talk stuff out....) but now the second sundering has happened.... it may very well be that a portion of the Chondalwood has been taken over by forces from abeir. Maybe the wild elves and ghostwise halflings gave up territory, and when things stabilize, these forces from Abeir find Innarlith (still standing, but covered in vines), and they begin recovering it and using it as a base to raid from (there's probably no treasure here, but simply having viable stone structures helps).
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 12:16:20
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
She may have, but very unlikely. You see, Ed killed her off in his short story "The Many Murders of Manshoon" in the Realms of the Dead anthology.
-- George Krashos
Thank you George. That's exactly the information I was looking for (i.e. is she still the Magister). At this point then, I'll drop the thought of using her then. I don't recall that story, just curious, what happened with her? On a sidenote, man becoming magister MUST be effectively a death sentence.
I'll take it from this that we have no knowledge of any replacement magister, and the next major servant of Azuth was the one from the Brimstone Angels series. So, in theory, she may have been the last magister? |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 10:31:53
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Remember this is a magic world - contingent resurrection anybody? :P
Magisters do have options to return to existence after their time as a Magister, though not as a mortal spellcaster. It's in Secrets of the Magister.
They are also allowed their own means of self restoration, as the Mantle of office passes with their death, any post-death contingency (like an Elminster's Evasion, for example). Also, there is nothing about being Magister that prevents undeath.
I figure many of them have done so..
One of my fun little Realms hobbies is to give details to res'd or undead former Magisters :) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 05:45:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Remember this is a magic world - contingent resurrection anybody? :P
Magisters do have options to return to existence after their time as a Magister, though not as a mortal spellcaster. It's in Secrets of the Magister. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 01 Jan 2018 : 05:29:50
Remember this is a magic world - contingent resurrection anybody? :P |
