| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Realms Voyager |
Posted - 12 Dec 2017 : 04:51:33
It is known that the illithid god Ilsensine was present on Toril during the Time of Troubles (ToT) and that it possesed the Elder Brain that rules the illithid city of Oryndoll during that time (which is why that particular Elder Brain still has tentacles that other Elder Brains lack). But what about other aberration gods ?
I would say that for an entity to be classified as a god it has to grant divine spells to some of its worshippers and if it is a god then Ao must have banished them to Toril during the ToT. Ilsensine meets that standard since Oryndoll has an illithid that is an 18th level cleric of Ilsensine and surely other illithids are also clerics of Ilsensine in other illithid cities. The Great Mother of the beholders just barely meets that standard since we know that Zormarq the Phantyrant an undead doomsphere is a 9th level cleric of the Great Mother (almost no beholders receive clerical powers from the Great Mother). Ghaunadaur has a significant number of worshippers among the drow and some of them receive divine spells from Ghaunadaur so he definitely qualifies as a god. The sourcebook Waterdeep City of Splendors by Eric Boyd (an excellent author of lore , I would buy anything written by him) on the pages describing Skullport there appears an aboleth which is a cleric of the Blood Queen (I don't remember the clerical level). Therefore this aboleth must be a worshipper of the Blood Queen in spite of the book Lords of Madness that claims that the aboleth only respect , not worship , the Blood Queen. So the Blood Queen must then actually grant divine spells to at least some few aboleths. Therefore the aboleth and beholder gods should definitely have been on Toril during the ToT as well as Ghaunadaur.
So my question is how and where would these gods avatars have appeared during the ToT ?
One likely place for the avatar of Ghaunadaur to appear would be in the Underdark drow city of Llurth Dreier where Ghaunadaur has many drow worshippers and , surely , clerics. Who do you think Ghaunadaur would take as its avatar ? A drow or something else and if so what would you propose ?
Where would the avatar of the Great Mother be and what would it possess ? Maybe some elder hive mother beholder in the beholder city of Zokir ? Would this avatar seek to free the beholders of Ooltul from phaerimm enslavement ?
What about the Blood Queen ? I can't imagine her possesing anything other than an aboleth but which particular one and where would you have the avatar appear ? Remember it should be a far off place (even for the Underdark) since the Underdark sourcebook makes no mention of the Blood Queens's avatar in any of the Underdark cities described there.
Kind regards
Realms Voyager
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BrennonGoldeye |
Posted - 29 Dec 2017 : 17:54:12
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
In 5e they say Ilsensine is a state of mind instead of a God. Being present for ToTs says otherwise.
5E can say what ever it wants. Iisensine cares not and knows of its own Godhood. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 23 Dec 2017 : 04:26:30
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Gotcha. Bane, we do know was a multispheric deity, first highlighted in Finder's Bane (and in the core 4e setting), so that rationale may just hold. With the others, there's still blanks, but I think Masked Mage's point was more that Ao does whatever he wants to do, and casually brought back Torm, allowed Mystra to be reborn through Midnight, allowed Bhaal to be reborn through his Bhaalspawn, going against the rules that he was supposedly instituting.
Oh, I'm not saying the current situation of bringing back *every* dead deity isn't a mess, just that there is precedence for deities to re-establish themselves because the Time of Troubles was, in essence, local*, and a deity killed in the Realms at that point or later isn't necessarily dead across the multiverse.
Jeff
* I think there would be wider ranging repercussions as complacent deities "woke up" and became more active everywhere. But I also think that is "more fun" from a gaming point of view, as well. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 22:30:24
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-The majority of the deities (or most notable) that were killed were "native" deities (Mystra, Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Torm) that just kinda came back.
There has been a considerable time jump that hasn't been fully detailed; to my knowledge we don't know the how or why they came back. I was pointing out that there is in fact an already existing mechanic for a deity to re-establish themselves in a Crystal Sphere they lost access to, on top of the other existing ways they can return to life. Just because we don't know of other spheres the deities may be worshiped in doesn't mean they don't exist; Malar is a good example of knowing he is a multisphere power without knowing where else he is actually worshiped.
Jeff
-Gotcha. Bane, we do know was a multispheric deity, first highlighted in Finder's Bane (and in the core 4e setting), so that rationale may just hold. With the others, there's still blanks, but I think Masked Mage's point was more that Ao does whatever he wants to do, and casually brought back Torm, allowed Mystra to be reborn through Midnight, allowed Bhaal to be reborn through his Bhaalspawn, going against the rules that he was supposedly instituting. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 22:08:14
Ao snaps his fingers and new gods form, to take the place of dead ones. Portfolios can now be shared. Glad to see Ibrandul's back though, even if it is in a sideways mention.
This is why I say Ao is MUCH MORE than just the 'Overpower of Realmspace'. Thats part of his job, but only because Realmspace occupies so much of his actual job. I peg him as an Eternal now - something 'beyond' the titles of Estelar or Primordial (so, something different than a god - a god that has power over other gods, but only when it pertains to its specific job description). So if you were to say Ao was a God, then his portfolio would be 'the gods', and thats why he has power over them. It doesn't actually mean he has more power - it just means he has final say on THEM. He's basically one of the 'laws of the universe' made incarnate. Or rather, he represents the abstract of said rules.
So what he does for Realmspace, he can do for any sphere. We just don't hear about him in regards to them, because they don't have as much need for him to intercede. That's how I spin him these days (not that that has ANY impact on the setting itself, other than what is already canon). The Living Tribunal (stolen from Marvel comics) and The LoP are two other Eternals - they sit outside the normal categories. They exist to maintain order among the Gods. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 21:48:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't think any of the aberrational gods 'died' during the ToT, so they'd still all have their presences. Think of Worlds as VG servers. All Ao did was disconnect his server from the internet. The 'user' (Gamer) was still out there somewhere, playing on other servers. However, the game was 'still running', and if your avatar died while you were cut-off, you were out-of-luck. You can't even retrieve your items (Hardcore Mode). 
Of course, the divine reset doesn't address issues like deities camping on the corpses of prior deities... Ibrandul comes immediately to mind, there.
It's one of the many reasons I hate the divine reset -- Ibrandul never had any screentime at all before his death, but he died during the ToT, so if Bhaal and Myrkul are back, Ibrandul should be back, too. Yet, so far as I know, there's been no mention of Ibrandul since we first found out he was dead -- which was the same time we found out he existed. 
With issues like that, portfolios having changed hands, and the issue of deities that fell before the ToT, the whole "all the gods are back!" thing is just too much of a mess.
Actually, one of the modules revolving around the sundering DID have a chosen of Ibrandul.
From Dead in Thay, page 66
102. Temple of Shadows
The shrine of binding takes up most of this black marble chamber, which has no light sources.
Light. Bright light from a source other than a spell of 3rd level or higher becomes dim light in this chamber.
Creatures. Six shadows lurk in this chamber.
Poisoned Shadows. Whenever a living creature in this area takes damage, it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or it can’t see, as if shrouded in darkness that darkvision can’t penetrate. In addition, any light source the creature has that is not from a 3rd- or higher-level spell is extinguished and can’t be relit until the effect ends 1 minute later. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns to end the effect early, but on each failed saving throw, the creature takes 5 (2d4) poison damage.
Chosen of Ibrandul. A chaotic evil female drow named Ashdra is the Chosen of Ibrandul. Ibrandul is a god of darkness and underground places once primarily worshiped by humans in southern lands such as
Calimshan. He was worshiped as a comforter and protector of those who travel and work in darkness. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 21:44:01
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
It also doesn't explain how the three survived in their various states
I didn't assume they had survived -- I assumed that the return was a resurrection. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 19:54:20
It also doesn't explain how the three survived in their various states |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 18:57:29
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't think any of the aberrational gods 'died' during the ToT, so they'd still all have their presences. Think of Worlds as VG servers. All Ao did was disconnect his server from the internet. The 'user' (Gamer) was still out there somewhere, playing on other servers. However, the game was 'still running', and if your avatar died while you were cut-off, you were out-of-luck. You can't even retrieve your items (Hardcore Mode).
Of course, the divine reset doesn't address issues like deities camping on the corpses of prior deities... Ibrandul comes immediately to mind, there.
It's one of the many reasons I hate the divine reset -- Ibrandul never had any screentime at all before his death, but he died during the ToT, so if Bhaal and Myrkul are back, Ibrandul should be back, too. Yet, so far as I know, there's been no mention of Ibrandul since we first found out he was dead -- which was the same time we found out he existed.
With issues like that, portfolios having changed hands, and the issue of deities that fell before the ToT, the whole "all the gods are back!" thing is just too much of a mess. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 18:31:52
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
That's what was stated in Faiths&Avatars. Except the deity could not just make a new avatar within Realmspace, as her access to Realmspace was cut by Ao as consequence of losing this one avatar.
Except all the gods that were "killed" came back after about 100 years. So Ao's rules were basically bullshit.
While thats true, the Spellplague and then Sundering was a 'reset' to just before the ToT, and thats why everyone is there. Unfortunately, so are newcomers, like Zehir and tRQ (although both are probably just aspects of previously known deities - Zehir is most certainly Set).
Bane is a special case, and one we can have a lot of fun with. He died, but he came back well before most of the others. I think in this case Wooly is correct - that was really Xvim. At least enough 'Xvim' to allow him to bypass Ao's mandate about 'no more Bane'. So it was Bane, but it also wasn't Bane.
However, Bane was also smart enough to establish himself elsewhere (or we can go with my theory that 'The Bane' is an archtype). Planer Bane was slightly different than FR Bane - we can either chalk that up to time, or my archtype theory (that planer Bane actually came first, which he MUST HAVE, considering he's in all the 4e proto-cosmology).
So when you get the Sundering reset, (our) Bane goes back to being Xvim (and absolutely HATING on that), and Planer Bane enters the Realms ('old Bane' is restored... but he's a little different). Thus, the current Xvim does NOT consider himself related to the current Bane (because he really isn't - thats a new aspect created for FR). What makes matters worse, old Bane (Xvim) is now just an Exarch of New Bane... how that must vex him.
I don't think any of the aberrational gods 'died' during the ToT, so they'd still all have their presences. Think of Worlds as VG servers. All Ao did was disconnect his server from the internet. The 'user' (Gamer) was still out there somewhere, playing on other servers. However, the game was 'still running', and if your avatar died while you were cut-off, you were out-of-luck. You can't even retrieve your items (Hardcore Mode). |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 18:07:12
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-The majority of the deities (or most notable) that were killed were "native" deities (Mystra, Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Torm) that just kinda came back.
There has been a considerable time jump that hasn't been fully detailed; to my knowledge we don't know the how or why they came back. I was pointing out that there is in fact an already existing mechanic for a deity to re-establish themselves in a Crystal Sphere they lost access to, on top of the other existing ways they can return to life. Just because we don't know of other spheres the deities may be worshiped in doesn't mean they don't exist; Malar is a good example of knowing he is a multisphere power without knowing where else he is actually worshiped.
Jeff |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 16:20:51
My point exactly, if they can just kinda come back like they all just kinda did, through whatever their various plans were then how much simpler would it be for one with all the power of an active multispheric god pushing their own plans forward. Seems like a huge hole in reasoning to me. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 13:14:08
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Except all the gods that were "killed" came back after about 100 years. So Ao's rules were basically bullshit.
Except that perfectly lines up with what was described in Spelljammer material about introducing deities to Crystal Spheres they don't have access to: New, sustained worship over a period of time. In the case of the Forgotten Realms, they basically have to re-apply for access to the sphere after bringing in new outside worship.
Jeff
-The majority of the deities (or most notable) that were killed were "native" deities (Mystra, Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Torm) that just kinda came back. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 21 Dec 2017 : 06:15:03
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Except all the gods that were "killed" came back after about 100 years. So Ao's rules were basically bullshit.
Except that perfectly lines up with what was described in Spelljammer material about introducing deities to Crystal Spheres they don't have access to: New, sustained worship over a period of time. In the case of the Forgotten Realms, they basically have to re-apply for access to the sphere after bringing in new outside worship.
Jeff |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 20:42:28
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
That's what was stated in Faiths&Avatars. Except the deity could not just make a new avatar within Realmspace, as her access to Realmspace was cut by Ao as consequence of losing this one avatar.
Except all the gods that were "killed" came back after about 100 years. So Ao's rules were basically bullshit. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 20:16:41
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
That's what was stated in Faiths&Avatars. Except the deity could not just make a new avatar within Realmspace, as her access to Realmspace was cut by Ao as consequence of losing this one avatar. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 17:28:17
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I love Candlekeep. 
One person mentions, "This multispheric stuff is too convoluted for my liking", and the very next response uses a Planescape reference. 
Here's the way I handle everything these days (both in-game, and real life) - just except that EVERYTHING IS A LIE. Nothing you hear about is real - it is all filtered through other people's perceptions, or an out-right fraud. Even 'The Gods' don't understand whats going on.
And since we have canon (now) that clearly indicates that the 'past can be rewritten', and we've seen some examples of that in past editions (Ravenloft is one huge LIE, and we have FR canon that says Ao "makes people forget stuff", etc.), I am not even going off the reservation here. Hell, according to Elaine's Evermeet novel, the world was rewritten by the elves when they created their 'island paradise', and simply erased entire cultures as if they never existed. Thus, I take anything that happened during the Spellplague (4e) years as apocryphal - it may or may not be true.
And we have to sort of do that, because I keep finding inconsistencies within that lore. You know, like goddesses becoming goddesses by stealing power from a being who didn't even exist yet. That sort of thing. 
So take 'canon' with a grain of salt - its all Fake News.
Beyond that we have Ed's say so from way way back. The premise of the Forgotten Realms is that all the information we have been given is just relayed storied passed on to us through the writers; told to them either by Elminster or another. Nothing "canon" is true, its all just someone's version of what might be true. Love that. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 17:16:50
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Is that a planescape thing. I cant say i know much about planescape
-They're a group that deny gods are actually gods (as opposed to really powerful beings that have fooled everyone into worshiping them) and shouldn't be worshiped. They line up perfectly for your concept. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 16:53:43
I love Candlekeep.
One person mentions, "This multispheric stuff is too convoluted for my liking", and the very next response uses a Planescape reference.
Here's the way I handle everything these days (both in-game, and real life) - just except that EVERYTHING IS A LIE. Nothing you hear about is real - it is all filtered through other people's perceptions, or an out-right fraud. Even 'The Gods' don't understand whats going on.
And since we have canon (now) that clearly indicates that the 'past can be rewritten', and we've seen some examples of that in past editions (Ravenloft is one huge LIE, and we have FR canon that says Ao "makes people forget stuff", etc.), I am not even going off the reservation here. Hell, according to Elaine's Evermeet novel, the world was rewritten by the elves when they created their 'island paradise', and simply erased entire cultures as if they never existed. Thus, I take anything that happened during the Spellplague (4e) years as apocryphal - it may or may not be true.
And we have to sort of do that, because I keep finding inconsistencies within that lore. You know, like goddesses becoming goddesses by stealing power from a being who didn't even exist yet. That sort of thing.
So take 'canon' with a grain of salt - its all Fake News. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 16:34:06
Is that a planescape thing. I cant say i know much about planescape |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 16:05:00
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The time of troubles was a lie, a massive continent wide hysteria that people were happy to join in with and that secret organisations used to spread misinformation to limit the ever growing power of the big religions.
By making people believe a god was dead, you limit his worship sometimes to the point where he is dead.
Well thats how i play it. This multispheric stuff is too convoluted for my liking.
-The Great Athar Conspiracy. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 07:50:09
The time of troubles was a lie, a massive continent wide hysteria that people were happy to join in with and that secret organisations used to spread misinformation to limit the ever growing power of the big religions.
By making people believe a god was dead, you limit his worship sometimes to the point where he is dead.
Well thats how i play it. This multispheric stuff is too convoluted for my liking. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 01:07:42
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
Except there was a lttle rule Ao seems to have forgotten to mention to them - you die in the game, YOU DIE FOR REAL.
Now, that probably wasn't relevant to multispheric powers (and I I'm not going to beat that dead horse yet again), at least not "in the grand scheme of things". But on a local level, it meant that if that one tiny, teensy-weensy, itsy-bitsy avatar died during the Avatar Crisis, that god NO LONGER HAD A PRESENCE IN REALMSPACE.
And THAT is kind of a big deal... especially given that we know Toril is somehow 'central to the universe' (a 'hub of the Prime Material). What happens on Toril does NOT 'stay on Toril'. Just ask Azuth and Asmodeus.
And in the end, our Bane died (and then came back), but there was an Archtype Bane that we didn't even know about, and he wasn't affected at all. He probably never even heard of the ToT. Our Bane was just that 'pinky tip' I mentioned above. Now Bhaal & Myrkul, they had no back-up plan.
And coincidentally, notice that the guy who DID wind-up having a multispheric (Archtypical) presence in the planes was the one that came back right away - he didn't need a Spellplague to do it. This is why its such a big deal when an Archtype dies - then all the "mini me's" CAN'T come back anymore. That's what the Whole dawn War was about, and why all those powers were shocked when it happened. Killing an Aspect Avatar is like throwing a pebble in a lake - tiny perturbations fan out. But killing the archtype is like throwing a 100-ton boulder into a pond (or a fat guy doing cannonball into the swimming pool). Its gonna hurt... EVERYWHERE. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 23:47:03
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Imagine if you will (I've just become that dude from The Twilight Zone!) That someone wants to punish you and all your friends. A LOT of friends. In fact, its your whole senior class. Whatever you did must have been pretty damn bad, though, because the 'man' is gonna cut off one finger from each of you. The pinky. Well... just the very tip, really. Then they throw all those pinky-tips in a garbage pail marked 'Toril'.
You all look at each other (with cute little Scooby-Doo band-aids) and think, "Heck, that wasn't so bad", and go about your business. Maybe not for you, but what about those pinky-tips? And that poor garbage pail? And the worst part is, 'the man' said he'll sew all those pinky tips back on eventually. *yech*
Except that the garbage pail turns out to be its own ecosystem (most probably are, and a cellular level), and those pinky tips have a devastating effect on that ecosystem. In fact, they turn into little, angsty versions of YOU (crazy what divine DNA can do ).
Outside the garbage pail, life goes on as usual, and no-one knows the difference.
And then came the local chaos hound, and he began eating fingertips.... BAD DOG... BAAAADDDDD DDDOOOGGGGG.... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 23:44:55
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I think this is a huge oversight by the writers - does this mean that all the illithids in all the spheres outside of Toril were also cut off from their god? Why did the gith nations not wipe them all out then? How easy would it be to take down your enemy that you are fairly evenly matched with when a major source of their power is disrupted. Especially when the VAST majority of illithids are outside of Realmspace (including their fabled home sphere and the hundreds that they control absolutely - mentioned in one of the illithid books).
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
The more ridiculous option (which I don't find ridiculous at all... gods aren't physical entities) is what happened. In fact, that god wasn't even given a physical form... they had to share their body with a mortal. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 20:39:00
Imagine if you will (I've just become that dude from The Twilight Zone!) That someone wants to punish you and all your friends. A LOT of friends. In fact, its your whole senior class. Whatever you did must have been pretty damn bad, though, because the 'man' is gonna cut off one finger from each of you. The pinky. Well... just the very tip, really. Then they throw all those pinky-tips in a garbage pail marked 'Toril'.
You all look at each other (with cute little Scooby-Doo band-aids) and think, "Heck, that wasn't so bad", and go about your business. Maybe not for you, but what about those pinky-tips? And that poor garbage pail? And the worst part is, 'the man' said he'll sew all those pinky tips back on eventually. *yech*
Except that the garbage pail turns out to be its own ecosystem (most probably are, on a cellular level), and those pinky tips have a devastating effect on that ecosystem. In fact, they turn into little, angsty versions of YOU (crazy what divine DNA can do ).
Outside the garbage pail, life goes on as usual, and no-one knows the difference. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 17 Dec 2017 : 18:16:02
Outside of Realmspace, deities and their followers were completely unaffected, other than any changes to motivations and such (I think a number of complacent multispheric deities would have gotten a prod to do more afterwards, even if it was relatively local). I think Ao would have informed them of the loss of contact with Realmspace and that the portion of their power that is local there was formed into an avatar.
In cases where the avatar of a multispheric power was slain and absorbed by another deity, they would just be cut off from Realmspace and would need to have followers establish a new foothold again (per the Spelljammer rules of maintaining a following there for a year).
Jeff |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 17 Dec 2017 : 15:57:55
I think this is a huge oversight by the writers - does this mean that all the illithids in all the spheres outside of Toril were also cut off from their god? Why did the gith nations not wipe them all out then? How easy would it be to take down your enemy that you are fairly evenly matched with when a major source of their power is disrupted. Especially when the VAST majority of illithids are outside of Realmspace (including their fabled home sphere and the hundreds that they control absolutely - mentioned in one of the illithid books).
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 14 Dec 2017 : 20:08:44
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey man.... I was sucking on that dude's skull over there, and it was like... I went all Ilsensine.... you should go try some....
-iLSeDsine |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Dec 2017 : 00:09:46
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
In 5e they say Ilsensine is a state of mind instead of a God. Being present for ToTs says otherwise.
-What does that even mean? Ilsensine is some kind of Mindflayer nirvana?
Hey man.... I was sucking on that dude's skull over there, and it was like... I went all Ilsensine.... you should go try some.... |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 20:28:49
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
In 5e they say Ilsensine is a state of mind instead of a God. Being present for ToTs says otherwise.
-What does that even mean? Ilsensine is some kind of Mindflayer nirvana? |
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