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Realms Voyager
Acolyte
6 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Dec 2017 : 04:51:33
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It is known that the illithid god Ilsensine was present on Toril during the Time of Troubles (ToT) and that it possesed the Elder Brain that rules the illithid city of Oryndoll during that time (which is why that particular Elder Brain still has tentacles that other Elder Brains lack). But what about other aberration gods ?
I would say that for an entity to be classified as a god it has to grant divine spells to some of its worshippers and if it is a god then Ao must have banished them to Toril during the ToT. Ilsensine meets that standard since Oryndoll has an illithid that is an 18th level cleric of Ilsensine and surely other illithids are also clerics of Ilsensine in other illithid cities. The Great Mother of the beholders just barely meets that standard since we know that Zormarq the Phantyrant an undead doomsphere is a 9th level cleric of the Great Mother (almost no beholders receive clerical powers from the Great Mother). Ghaunadaur has a significant number of worshippers among the drow and some of them receive divine spells from Ghaunadaur so he definitely qualifies as a god. The sourcebook Waterdeep City of Splendors by Eric Boyd (an excellent author of lore , I would buy anything written by him) on the pages describing Skullport there appears an aboleth which is a cleric of the Blood Queen (I don't remember the clerical level). Therefore this aboleth must be a worshipper of the Blood Queen in spite of the book Lords of Madness that claims that the aboleth only respect , not worship , the Blood Queen. So the Blood Queen must then actually grant divine spells to at least some few aboleths. Therefore the aboleth and beholder gods should definitely have been on Toril during the ToT as well as Ghaunadaur.
So my question is how and where would these gods avatars have appeared during the ToT ?
One likely place for the avatar of Ghaunadaur to appear would be in the Underdark drow city of Llurth Dreier where Ghaunadaur has many drow worshippers and , surely , clerics. Who do you think Ghaunadaur would take as its avatar ? A drow or something else and if so what would you propose ?
Where would the avatar of the Great Mother be and what would it possess ? Maybe some elder hive mother beholder in the beholder city of Zokir ? Would this avatar seek to free the beholders of Ooltul from phaerimm enslavement ?
What about the Blood Queen ? I can't imagine her possesing anything other than an aboleth but which particular one and where would you have the avatar appear ? Remember it should be a far off place (even for the Underdark) since the Underdark sourcebook makes no mention of the Blood Queens's avatar in any of the Underdark cities described there.
Kind regards
Realms Voyager
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2017 : 13:55:32
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From GHotR
The god Moander returns to the Forgotten Vale and takes control of this saurial settlement, but is driven back into the planes by Alias [1367] and friends. Finder Wyvernspur, The Nameless Bard, destroys Moander and
becomes a demipower.
On others... just how extreme WAS the casting down of the gods. By that, I mean that realmspace is big. Its not just Toril. Glyth is a world of mind flayers. H'catha is a world of beholders. Karpri is a world of seas, and it would be a great place for an aboleth society. I submit that maybe one of the reasons we don't know where certain gods went is because they didn't even come to Toril. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2017 : 18:02:06
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I submit that maybe one of the reasons we don't know where certain gods went is because they didn't even come to Toril.
Or the location wasn't exactly public. I'd expect that Ilsensine, for example, would have shown up in an illithid city -- perhaps taking its elder brain as his avatar.
Since the illithids don't exactly send out Yuletide letters to everyone, no one beyond that city would have known of their guest. |
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Realms Voyager
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2017 : 21:38:53
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Hi Wooly , that actually did happen. The very first sentence in my post says "It is known that the illithid god Ilsensine was present on Toril during the Time of Troubles (ToT) and that it possesed the Elder Brain that rules the illithid city of Oryndoll during that time (which is why that particular Elder Brain still has tentacles that other Elder Brains lack).".
Regarding a comment by sleyvas I hadn't thought about having avatars on other worlds in Realmspace. I agree with you that it sounds quite reasonable for the Great Mother's avatar to appear in H'catha (a world of beholders like you say) since beholders are so extremely xenophobic. Gzemnid might choose to be on Toril since the Great Mother always tries to eat him. For Ilsensine we already know that its avatar was not in Glyth since it is confirmed that it was on Toril in the city called Oryndoll. About there being aboleth in Karpri it is quite reasonable since its an ocean world but the aboleth are so evil I would hope that Karpri only has lesser evils like maybe morkoth. I actually like the idea of Karpri being a , mostly , safe refuge for the sea elves that inhabit it.
Kind regards
Realms Voyager
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 01:11:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Realms Voyager
Hi Wooly , that actually did happen. The very first sentence in my post says "It is known that the illithid god Ilsensine was present on Toril during the Time of Troubles (ToT) and that it possesed the Elder Brain that rules the illithid city of Oryndoll during that time (which is why that particular Elder Brain still has tentacles that other Elder Brains lack).".
Regarding a comment by sleyvas I hadn't thought about having avatars on other worlds in Realmspace. I agree with you that it sounds quite reasonable for the Great Mother's avatar to appear in H'catha (a world of beholders like you say) since beholders are so extremely xenophobic. Gzemnid might choose to be on Toril since the Great Mother always tries to eat him. For Ilsensine we already know that its avatar was not in Glyth since it is confirmed that it was on Toril in the city called Oryndoll. About there being aboleth in Karpri it is quite reasonable since its an ocean world but the aboleth are so evil I would hope that Karpri only has lesser evils like maybe morkoth. I actually like the idea of Karpri being a , mostly , safe refuge for the sea elves that inhabit it.
Kind regards
Realms Voyager
Bear in mind, Ilsensine isn't the only mind flayer deity. There was also Maanzecorian at that time. He may have gone down on Glyth.
There's also some other places with beholders in realmspace. The eye of the sky is a beholder base in the tears of Selune with hundreds of beholders.
On not wanting to use Karpri, there's also a second water world.. I just didn't mention it. Chandos is another water world. It has islands too unlike Karpri, but they're constantly shifting. Its actually bigger than Toril, but its mostly water. BTW, Chandos is also filled with mosses and fungi, and with its constantly shifting nature, I wouldn't be surprised to find oozes here. Ghaunadaur would probably love the place.
That being said, I'm not sure that making Karpri a world with no aboleth is needed. They can still be few in number, and maybe whenever sea elves find them they hunt them down.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 01:12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Realms Voyager
Hi Wooly , that actually did happen. The very first sentence in my post says "It is known that the illithid god Ilsensine was present on Toril during the Time of Troubles (ToT) and that it possesed the Elder Brain that rules the illithid city of Oryndoll during that time (which is why that particular Elder Brain still has tentacles that other Elder Brains lack).".
Regarding a comment by sleyvas I hadn't thought about having avatars on other worlds in Realmspace. I agree with you that it sounds quite reasonable for the Great Mother's avatar to appear in H'catha (a world of beholders like you say) since beholders are so extremely xenophobic. Gzemnid might choose to be on Toril since the Great Mother always tries to eat him. For Ilsensine we already know that its avatar was not in Glyth since it is confirmed that it was on Toril in the city called Oryndoll. About there being aboleth in Karpri it is quite reasonable since its an ocean world but the aboleth are so evil I would hope that Karpri only has lesser evils like maybe morkoth. I actually like the idea of Karpri being a , mostly , safe refuge for the sea elves that inhabit it.
Kind regards
Realms Voyager
Bear in mind, Ilsensine isn't the only mind flayer deity. There was also Maanzecorian at that time. He may have gone down on Glyth.
There's also some other places with beholders in realmspace. The eye of the sky is a beholder base in the tears of Selune with hundreds of beholders.
On not wanting to use Karpri, there's also a second water world.. I just didn't mention it. Chandos is another water world. It has islands too unlike Karpri, but they're constantly shifting. Its actually bigger than Toril, but its mostly water. BTW, Chandos is also filled with mosses and fungi, and with its constantly shifting nature, I wouldn't be surprised to find oozes here. Ghaunadaur would probably love the place.
That being said, I'm not sure that making Karpri a world with no aboleth is needed. They can still be few in number, and maybe whenever sea elves find them they hunt them down.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1632 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 02:36:57
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| In 5e they say Ilsensine is a state of mind instead of a God. Being present for ToTs says otherwise. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
1023 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 02:40:15
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| I thought we knew Ghaunadaur's location and I think it was Lurth Drier (which also doubles as washer, or so I hear). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 02:55:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Realms Voyager
Hi Wooly , that actually did happen. The very first sentence in my post says "It is known that the illithid god Ilsensine was present on Toril during the Time of Troubles (ToT) and that it possesed the Elder Brain that rules the illithid city of Oryndoll during that time (which is why that particular Elder Brain still has tentacles that other Elder Brains lack).".
Regarding a comment by sleyvas I hadn't thought about having avatars on other worlds in Realmspace. I agree with you that it sounds quite reasonable for the Great Mother's avatar to appear in H'catha (a world of beholders like you say) since beholders are so extremely xenophobic. Gzemnid might choose to be on Toril since the Great Mother always tries to eat him. For Ilsensine we already know that its avatar was not in Glyth since it is confirmed that it was on Toril in the city called Oryndoll. About there being aboleth in Karpri it is quite reasonable since its an ocean world but the aboleth are so evil I would hope that Karpri only has lesser evils like maybe morkoth. I actually like the idea of Karpri being a , mostly , safe refuge for the sea elves that inhabit it.
Kind regards
Realms Voyager
My bad, didn't read all of the first post.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 11:06:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Realms Voyager
So my question is how and where would these gods avatars have appeared during the ToT ?
One likely place for the avatar of Ghaunadaur to appear would be in the Underdark drow city of Llurth Dreier where Ghaunadaur has many drow worshippers and , surely , clerics. Who do you think Ghaunadaur would take as its avatar ? A drow or something else and if so what would you propose ?
Where would the avatar of the Great Mother be and what would it possess ? Maybe some elder hive mother beholder in the beholder city of Zokir ? Would this avatar seek to free the beholders of Ooltul from phaerimm enslavement ?
Ghaunadar should appear as a slime of some sort that can transform into any form. I would imagine him appearing in some deep sea but drow outpost with lots of followers seems also good.
Great Mother should appear near Lake of Steam where beholders originaly first came to Faerun. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 12:12:19
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Also, just to throw out other options, since honestly, I'd rather not all the gods having to be explained on Toril (because honestly realmspace is big, and there's got to be gods on these other worlds, and so I'd rather fit what we can there... there will be some that are unknown to Toril, obviously, but....)... Karpri or Chandos, the water worlds.... they could also have hosted the other beholder god in a group of eyes of the deep. That would definitely be a way for him to have kept away from the other goddess' minions by putting a barrier of water around himself. Granted not insurmountable, but it would be a smart move.
I will also note that no matter what, there were certain "deities" that weren't cast down... the ones we call cults of fiends. So, there is something to these various differences in gods. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3765 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2017 : 20:28:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
In 5e they say Ilsensine is a state of mind instead of a God. Being present for ToTs says otherwise.
-What does that even mean? Ilsensine is some kind of Mindflayer nirvana? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2017 : 00:09:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
In 5e they say Ilsensine is a state of mind instead of a God. Being present for ToTs says otherwise.
-What does that even mean? Ilsensine is some kind of Mindflayer nirvana?
Hey man.... I was sucking on that dude's skull over there, and it was like... I went all Ilsensine.... you should go try some.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3765 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2017 : 20:08:44
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey man.... I was sucking on that dude's skull over there, and it was like... I went all Ilsensine.... you should go try some....
-iLSeDsine |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2017 : 15:57:55
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I think this is a huge oversight by the writers - does this mean that all the illithids in all the spheres outside of Toril were also cut off from their god? Why did the gith nations not wipe them all out then? How easy would it be to take down your enemy that you are fairly evenly matched with when a major source of their power is disrupted. Especially when the VAST majority of illithids are outside of Realmspace (including their fabled home sphere and the hundreds that they control absolutely - mentioned in one of the illithid books).
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2017 : 18:16:02
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Outside of Realmspace, deities and their followers were completely unaffected, other than any changes to motivations and such (I think a number of complacent multispheric deities would have gotten a prod to do more afterwards, even if it was relatively local). I think Ao would have informed them of the loss of contact with Realmspace and that the portion of their power that is local there was formed into an avatar.
In cases where the avatar of a multispheric power was slain and absorbed by another deity, they would just be cut off from Realmspace and would need to have followers establish a new foothold again (per the Spelljammer rules of maintaining a following there for a year).
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 20:39:00
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Imagine if you will (I've just become that dude from The Twilight Zone!) That someone wants to punish you and all your friends. A LOT of friends. In fact, its your whole senior class. Whatever you did must have been pretty damn bad, though, because the 'man' is gonna cut off one finger from each of you. The pinky. Well... just the very tip, really. Then they throw all those pinky-tips in a garbage pail marked 'Toril'.
You all look at each other (with cute little Scooby-Doo band-aids) and think, "Heck, that wasn't so bad", and go about your business. Maybe not for you, but what about those pinky-tips? And that poor garbage pail? And the worst part is, 'the man' said he'll sew all those pinky tips back on eventually. *yech*
Except that the garbage pail turns out to be its own ecosystem (most probably are, on a cellular level), and those pinky tips have a devastating effect on that ecosystem. In fact, they turn into little, angsty versions of YOU (crazy what divine DNA can do ).
Outside the garbage pail, life goes on as usual, and no-one knows the difference. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Dec 2017 00:54:46 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 23:44:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I think this is a huge oversight by the writers - does this mean that all the illithids in all the spheres outside of Toril were also cut off from their god? Why did the gith nations not wipe them all out then? How easy would it be to take down your enemy that you are fairly evenly matched with when a major source of their power is disrupted. Especially when the VAST majority of illithids are outside of Realmspace (including their fabled home sphere and the hundreds that they control absolutely - mentioned in one of the illithid books).
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
The more ridiculous option (which I don't find ridiculous at all... gods aren't physical entities) is what happened. In fact, that god wasn't even given a physical form... they had to share their body with a mortal. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2017 : 23:47:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Imagine if you will (I've just become that dude from The Twilight Zone!) That someone wants to punish you and all your friends. A LOT of friends. In fact, its your whole senior class. Whatever you did must have been pretty damn bad, though, because the 'man' is gonna cut off one finger from each of you. The pinky. Well... just the very tip, really. Then they throw all those pinky-tips in a garbage pail marked 'Toril'.
You all look at each other (with cute little Scooby-Doo band-aids) and think, "Heck, that wasn't so bad", and go about your business. Maybe not for you, but what about those pinky-tips? And that poor garbage pail? And the worst part is, 'the man' said he'll sew all those pinky tips back on eventually. *yech*
Except that the garbage pail turns out to be its own ecosystem (most probably are, and a cellular level), and those pinky tips have a devastating effect on that ecosystem. In fact, they turn into little, angsty versions of YOU (crazy what divine DNA can do ).
Outside the garbage pail, life goes on as usual, and no-one knows the difference.
And then came the local chaos hound, and he began eating fingertips.... BAD DOG... BAAAADDDDD DDDOOOGGGGG.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2017 : 01:07:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
Except there was a lttle rule Ao seems to have forgotten to mention to them - you die in the game, YOU DIE FOR REAL.
Now, that probably wasn't relevant to multispheric powers (and I I'm not going to beat that dead horse yet again), at least not "in the grand scheme of things". But on a local level, it meant that if that one tiny, teensy-weensy, itsy-bitsy avatar died during the Avatar Crisis, that god NO LONGER HAD A PRESENCE IN REALMSPACE.
And THAT is kind of a big deal... especially given that we know Toril is somehow 'central to the universe' (a 'hub of the Prime Material). What happens on Toril does NOT 'stay on Toril'. Just ask Azuth and Asmodeus.
And in the end, our Bane died (and then came back), but there was an Archtype Bane that we didn't even know about, and he wasn't affected at all. He probably never even heard of the ToT. Our Bane was just that 'pinky tip' I mentioned above. Now Bhaal & Myrkul, they had no back-up plan.
And coincidentally, notice that the guy who DID wind-up having a multispheric (Archtypical) presence in the planes was the one that came back right away - he didn't need a Spellplague to do it. This is why its such a big deal when an Archtype dies - then all the "mini me's" CAN'T come back anymore. That's what the Whole dawn War was about, and why all those powers were shocked when it happened. Killing an Aspect Avatar is like throwing a pebble in a lake - tiny perturbations fan out. But killing the archtype is like throwing a 100-ton boulder into a pond (or a fat guy doing cannonball into the swimming pool). Its gonna hurt... EVERYWHERE. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Dec 2017 01:08:14 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3765 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 16:05:00
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The time of troubles was a lie, a massive continent wide hysteria that people were happy to join in with and that secret organisations used to spread misinformation to limit the ever growing power of the big religions.
By making people believe a god was dead, you limit his worship sometimes to the point where he is dead.
Well thats how i play it. This multispheric stuff is too convoluted for my liking.
-The Great Athar Conspiracy. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 16:53:43
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I love Candlekeep. 
One person mentions, "This multispheric stuff is too convoluted for my liking", and the very next response uses a Planescape reference. 
Here's the way I handle everything these days (both in-game, and real life) - just except that EVERYTHING IS A LIE. Nothing you hear about is real - it is all filtered through other people's perceptions, or an out-right fraud. Even 'The Gods' don't understand whats going on.
And since we have canon (now) that clearly indicates that the 'past can be rewritten', and we've seen some examples of that in past editions (Ravenloft is one huge LIE, and we have FR canon that says Ao "makes people forget stuff", etc.), I am not even going off the reservation here. Hell, according to Elaine's Evermeet novel, the world was rewritten by the elves when they created their 'island paradise', and simply erased entire cultures as if they never existed. Thus, I take anything that happened during the Spellplague (4e) years as apocryphal - it may or may not be true.
And we have to sort of do that, because I keep finding inconsistencies within that lore. You know, like goddesses becoming goddesses by stealing power from a being who didn't even exist yet. That sort of thing. 
So take 'canon' with a grain of salt - its all Fake News. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3765 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 17:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Is that a planescape thing. I cant say i know much about planescape
-They're a group that deny gods are actually gods (as opposed to really powerful beings that have fooled everyone into worshiping them) and shouldn't be worshiped. They line up perfectly for your concept. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 20 Dec 2017 17:17:21 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 17:28:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I love Candlekeep.
One person mentions, "This multispheric stuff is too convoluted for my liking", and the very next response uses a Planescape reference.
Here's the way I handle everything these days (both in-game, and real life) - just except that EVERYTHING IS A LIE. Nothing you hear about is real - it is all filtered through other people's perceptions, or an out-right fraud. Even 'The Gods' don't understand whats going on.
And since we have canon (now) that clearly indicates that the 'past can be rewritten', and we've seen some examples of that in past editions (Ravenloft is one huge LIE, and we have FR canon that says Ao "makes people forget stuff", etc.), I am not even going off the reservation here. Hell, according to Elaine's Evermeet novel, the world was rewritten by the elves when they created their 'island paradise', and simply erased entire cultures as if they never existed. Thus, I take anything that happened during the Spellplague (4e) years as apocryphal - it may or may not be true.
And we have to sort of do that, because I keep finding inconsistencies within that lore. You know, like goddesses becoming goddesses by stealing power from a being who didn't even exist yet. That sort of thing.
So take 'canon' with a grain of salt - its all Fake News.
Beyond that we have Ed's say so from way way back. The premise of the Forgotten Realms is that all the information we have been given is just relayed storied passed on to us through the writers; told to them either by Elminster or another. Nothing "canon" is true, its all just someone's version of what might be true. Love that. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 20:16:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
That's what was stated in Faiths&Avatars. Except the deity could not just make a new avatar within Realmspace, as her access to Realmspace was cut by Ao as consequence of losing this one avatar. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2017 : 20:42:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other option - even more ridiculous in my mind - is that only one avatar of that god was trapped in mortal form and cut off from the rest of the god's power elsewhere. This eliminates the danger to the god, who can just make a new avatar after the crisis is over if needs be.
That's what was stated in Faiths&Avatars. Except the deity could not just make a new avatar within Realmspace, as her access to Realmspace was cut by Ao as consequence of losing this one avatar.
Except all the gods that were "killed" came back after about 100 years. So Ao's rules were basically bullshit. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2017 : 06:15:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Except all the gods that were "killed" came back after about 100 years. So Ao's rules were basically bullshit.
Except that perfectly lines up with what was described in Spelljammer material about introducing deities to Crystal Spheres they don't have access to: New, sustained worship over a period of time. In the case of the Forgotten Realms, they basically have to re-apply for access to the sphere after bringing in new outside worship.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 13:14:08
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Except all the gods that were "killed" came back after about 100 years. So Ao's rules were basically bullshit.
Except that perfectly lines up with what was described in Spelljammer material about introducing deities to Crystal Spheres they don't have access to: New, sustained worship over a period of time. In the case of the Forgotten Realms, they basically have to re-apply for access to the sphere after bringing in new outside worship.
Jeff
-The majority of the deities (or most notable) that were killed were "native" deities (Mystra, Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Torm) that just kinda came back. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2017 : 16:20:51
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| My point exactly, if they can just kinda come back like they all just kinda did, through whatever their various plans were then how much simpler would it be for one with all the power of an active multispheric god pushing their own plans forward. Seems like a huge hole in reasoning to me. |
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Topic |
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Avatars of aberration gods during ToT
