| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 06:55:33
I would like to compile a list of Realms events that everyone has decided to leave out of their games, or even decided to change, because I want to see what the most popular unpopular events are.
Mine.
1: Spellplague never happened.
2: Shade never fell on Myth Drannor.
3: Myth Drannor was never retaken.
4: Szass Tam was not successful in his conquest of Thay. The Zulkirs managed to defeat him and drive him out. He now resides in the Mere of Dead Men slowly gathering an army of undead.
5: Primordials don't exist.
That's all I have at the moment. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Feb 2017 : 04:19:22
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So, they brought back the Moonstars (which infers the Harper schism still exists)?
The schism was never written out of existence, it was just given the "it's over and done with, moving on" treatment. So instead of being an ongoing conflict, it was more a "okay, these groups don't like each other, but we're not going to devote any space at all into their issues with each other. We're just going to ignore it."
Kinda like the way that pretty much every evil group that wasn't Shade, the Zhents, or the Red Wizards simply didn't get mentioned after 3E came out. Nothing said they were gone, but nothing said they were still around, either. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Feb 2017 : 02:04:06
So, they brought back the Moonstars (which infers the Harper schism still exists)?
{UGH} - at least I know Wooly will be happy. 
It could only get worse if Elmonster joins the Moonstars.  |
| bloodtide_the_red |
Posted - 19 Feb 2017 : 01:52:54
I ignore just about everything after 1370 DR or so. Often I just do it the easy way and set the game ''in the past''. Like in 1300 DR, for example. I never like the ''disaster a month'' that filled the end of 3E, and hate all the 4E and 5E changes. I use some stuff in the past....like a Shadow Weave...but ignore the rest. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 10:09:39
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Didn't the son of Dagult Neverember revived the Moonstars in 1479 DR?
Not really. Renaer had a group of people together in 1479 DR that he wanted to call the Moonstars, and he wanted to work with the Blackstaff of that time (Vajra Safahr), but the book in question ended before it was revealed what name the group actually used.
The real Moonstars made an appearance in 1487 DR in The Herald. They were mentioned again in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide as being active but underground. By 1491 DR and Death Masks, Laeral and Vajra still don't exactly seem to be best buds, so it's likely the two groups weren't yet joined at that time. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 06:26:54
Didn't the son of Dagult Neverember revived the Moonstars in 1479 DR? |
| goatmeal |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 04:40:06
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They didn't undo the Harper Schism, they just brushed it aside and acted like it wasn't a big deal, and like it was over and done with, with no impact on anything.
The Moonstars did get a little attention in 3E, but the overall concept of a schism amongst the good guys was unceremoniously dropped.
So brushed aside, as in they ignored it, I suppose? So if I were to write something in which it was still there, it probably wouldn't be against canon.
|
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 03:11:17
I also ignored the "death" of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. I know it was later revealed they never actually died, but I still would have preferred that whole event never happened in the first place. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 02:39:32
Hmmmm, below from the 4e campaign set, perfect timing on the Dambrathans rising up if it happened during the spellplague and if it was because maybe many of the Crintri simply disappeared to Abeir and then the humans rebelled against the remainder. The humans may not have even known about the disappearance. They may have just known they had less Crintri suddenly and took advantage, and the Crintri fled or were killed. It would make sense that in the midst of some kind of massive uprising that put whole towns to the torch that the core reason that triggered the uprising could have been lost.
Having a core group of Crintri who arrive in Abeir, absent the power of their goddess, and maybe they learn that a portion of the Shaar also transferred and head north. Maybe some would pick up Leira as a goddess and focus on illusion and enchantment magics. I don't see Deneir, Auppenser, Savras, Velsharoon, the elemental lords, Talos, Gargauth, Lathander, Helm, or Tyr really fitting. Maybe make them a little more "fey".... hmmm, and the black unicorns of the red wizards... maybe some nightmares.....
From the 4e campaign set
Native Dambrathans, who call themselves Arkaiuns, rebelled during the Spellplague. Turning to their totems and nature spirits, they drove the half-bloods from their lands and burned every priest of Loviatar they could catch. Surviving overlords fled to T’lindhet, a drow enclave under the Gnollwatch Mountains, but the city proved no refuge. The drow offered a cold and deadly welcome, thinking little of the newcomers’ mixed heritage and devotion to a foreign goddess. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 16 Feb 2017 : 17:40:07
Dambrath is nice place more so that it is also a remnant of ancient Ilithiri empire |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 16 Feb 2017 : 14:18:24
quote:
Originally posted by goatmeal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A couple of plot elements ignored in the 2E-3E transition should have been expanded on, not kicked to the curb -- the Harper Schism and the Manshoon Wars.
Wait, is this the Moonstars schism? They got rid of it? That was one of the more interesting new things I'd come across recently.
What I've somewhat noticed is that at the end of both 2nd edition and 3.5 they had this massive pushout of really good lore products. For 2e, it was cloak and dagger. For 3.5, no one can doubt that the Grand History of the Realms was amazing (personally, I liked most of what they did in Serpent Kingdoms as well for discovery of "nooks" in the corners of the realms.... another realm near Nimbral that was into Leira, and a realm strong with Savras and Talona). However, in those instances, the people writing those books were people who loved the game, but weren't part of the team working on the new edition (could be wrong, but that's my outsider's view). So, as they developed the new edition campaign setting for release just following the new edition, they developed their OWN new things to add. As a result, when editions changed, some really good things got dropped or wiped. From 3.5 to 4e, at least for me, it was that at the end of 3.5 they had really just started to make the old empires REALLY good again.... then they reset the whole region... not that this didn't happen throughout Faerun, but they really hit the south and east hard.
Speaking on that, I miss Dambrath as it was with the Crintri elves.... and I'll be damned if that doesn't just give me an idea for something to do with my idea of the Underchasm/Shaar actually filling back in because its actually returned from Abeir. I wanted to have some expert horse riders. Where was that dark elf city, and would it have been affected? What if some major contingent of Crintri had been there. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 16 Feb 2017 : 03:34:52
I am with some others here: the Spellplague didn't happen, gods weren't killed, and Shade didn't fall on Myth Drannor. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 20:11:47
They didn't undo the Harper Schism, they just brushed it aside and acted like it wasn't a big deal, and like it was over and done with, with no impact on anything.
The Moonstars did get a little attention in 3E, but the overall concept of a schism amongst the good guys was unceremoniously dropped. |
| goatmeal |
Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 18:25:00
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A couple of plot elements ignored in the 2E-3E transition should have been expanded on, not kicked to the curb -- the Harper Schism and the Manshoon Wars.
Wait, is this the Moonstars schism? They got rid of it? That was one of the more interesting new things I'd come across recently. |
| goatmeal |
Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 18:19:53
My main interest has always been the Moonsea region, circa Mysteries of the Moonsea. Those were some interesting times. I’ve been running games in that era with Pathfinder, generally ignoring whatever happened in 4e and later 5e.
More recently, I’ve begun to read up on all the changes in 4e and 5e in order to have the background for a setting I’ve always wanted to run set in a future Moonsea. I could just do this from the setting I’m most familiar with, but I figured it would be worth incorporating the more recent changes in order to have something that could be published via DMs Guild.
|
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 01:41:15
To speak for the relative newcomers to the Realms, I don't leave anything out. It's a big hot mess of a setting with crazy amounts of things having happened, but I happen to like it that way! The most complex thing for a 5e game is explaining the last decade, with allegedly 100s of Chosen running around during the Sundering, but very little info on it. Most of the other stuff (ToT, Spellplague) is distant history, which as far as I'm concerned just makes for a more vibrant setting.
That said, I sympathise with those who have played and read in the Realms for a long time. Changes to the status quo that you've grown to love always hurt, and I'm not looking forward to the next RSE (there's always another one, no matter what the bosses say).
Having read through a lot of source material from across the different editions, it's clear to me that the 1e/2e stuff is the best on average, though every edition has some gems. I remain optimistic for the Realms's future, and I'm loving integrating every dirty bit of its past. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 00:47:54
There surely are, but the majority of FR fans tend to ignore at least the destruction brought by 4e and by the end of 3e. WotC knee-jerk reaction is kinda telling too. In a quite large FR Facebook group (5k people), the question "which timeline do you use" comes up farily often, and the answers tend to gravitate towards the 2e/3e eras, or 5e. Spellplague is often left out (in 5e the Spellplague might as well have never happened). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 22:33:50
We do have people here that quite like the 4E and 5E Realms. They've not been vocal in this thread; likely because they don't leave any events out. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 22:09:02
Very well put.
I think its telling that as realms fans we agree on almost nothing about the realms an what it is, but most of us agree that 4E 5E and the later stages of 3E never happened |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 21:30:23
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I'm sure i will get told off for this but I thought I should sum up most of the choices above I can see people have made.
Realms Events You've Decided to Ignore:
1 - 4E
2 - 5E
3 - The last few years of 3E
What a series of own goals by WoTC.
Can't disagree with such a simple truth, lol. "With a few exceptions of course". "Nothing is unsalvageable".
Many opinions from Candlekeep's scribes (including mine) are 1E- and 2E-centric, we're grognards who were introduced to a vast array of creative Realms products during the "golden age" of the setting.
We're also vehemently dissatisfied with Wizbro's unoriginal, heavy-handed, and rather petulant Orwellian retcons. We would've accepted dramatic changes to the setting far more readily if they were handled in a more sophisticated, elegant, plausible, and interesting fashion: Machiavellian, Faustian, Kafkaesque, even Pyrrhic.
Those whose portal to the Realms appeared in 3E or later will offer different details about which particular setting changes they find noxious, but I think given time (and a few more editions/revisions) they will inevitably form similar animosity towards Wizbro's destruction of the game and the setting we love. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 20:10:25
I'm sure i will get told off for this but I thought I should sum up most of the choices above I can see people have made.
Realms Events You've Decided to Ignore:
1 - 4E
2 - 5E
3 - The last few years of 3E
What a series of own goals by WoTC. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 04 Feb 2017 : 15:32:45
quote:
Originally posted by farinal
1: Spellplague never happened.
2: Vhaerun and Eilistraee never died.
Yeah. I still can't believe that they literally decided to axe an entire pantheon and leave all their followers out of the picture just because "We want Drizzt to be the most speshul evah". And they even made their return a footnote (and we would know even less if Ed didn't add some more info through novels and answers). |
| farinal |
Posted - 04 Feb 2017 : 11:17:00
1: Spellplague never happened.
2: Vhaerun and Eilistraee never died. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 01:00:30
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I would like to compile a list of Realms events that everyone has decided to leave out of their games, or even decided to change, because I want to see what the most popular unpopular events are.
Mine.
1: Spellplague never happened.
2: Shade never fell on Myth Drannor.
3: Myth Drannor was never retaken.
4: Szass Tam was not successful in his conquest of Thay. The Zulkirs managed to defeat him and drive him out. He now resides in the Mere of Dead Men slowly gathering an army of undead.
5: Primordials don't exist.
That's all I have at the moment.
I'd play in this Realms any day. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 22:39:41
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I like the Talos one. Most of the players always underestimate Gruumsh intelligence because he is the god of orcs, but Gruumsh is actually cunning. And this seems like a good idea for increasing his worshiper numbers while Talos was away doing... whatever gods do when they are away...
As for Amaunator/Lathander, the problem is that the god himself said to his Chosen that he was the same being. Your idea will be contradicting canon right away.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and on the idea of NOT having a long drawn out Thayan civil war being a missed opportunity.... that's an additional thing I hope to alleviate with re-introducing the red wizards who flourished in Abeir. Let the war start again.
Hard for that to have happened. In canon, in Abeir magic is even more difficult to cast that in Toril (there is no Weave in Abeir).
In canon, all we know about for the weave in Abeir is from prior to the spellplague OR in the area immediately surrounding the body of a dead primordial (unless there was another novel that actually went to Abeir besides the Devil You Know). Farideh never traveled beyond the area which was the crystallized body of the primordial Petron. Quite frankly, we don't know WHAT was happening with the rest of the world. The only person who tells us anything is Caisys the Vice Lord, and he's far from a reliable source. Honestly, we find out that there were links from the Abyss to Abeir, so just how much changed in Abeir as a result of the spellplague?
This is why I specify the weave was still strong in "the lands of belief"... or to put it more succinctly, in the lands where belief in the gods held sway because it was land transferred from Abeir. Personally, since "Returned Abeir" had its own Steelsky, I don't even see why the "lands of belief" might not have had the same blue sky they had on Toril. If the plane of dweomerheart became local to Abeir instead of Toril, then the lands of belief in Abeir may have even suffered less form the spellplague than Toril did.
On the Amaunator telling Lathander's priests that he's Lathander.... we also had Xvim telling Bane's priests that he was Bane in that 2nd edition Moonshae's adventure (forget the name). It wouldn't be the first time that deities do things for their own self interests. |
| Dewaint |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 15:14:58
Basically I kept to the main published plot(s)
I left out from my long running FR campaign the following:
1: Shade never fell on Myth Drannor.
2: ~ 100 year jump never happened.
Spellplague and Sundering are a consecutive major event lasting ~ 5 years + major tweaks like no Abeir ever appeared.
3: As Cyric's plans whas been blown and exposed, no gods killed, only Bhaal and Myrkul are back + Asmodeus
4: Primordials don't exist.
5: almost nothing 4e-published happened
now current year is 1390 DR and running 5e with plots and adventures as published... well more or less   |
| Arivia |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 14:19:53
I'm running 3e FR in Pathfinder pretty much from the books right now, so the 3e canon at Shieldmeet 1372 DR is in place. I've carved a couple things out that my players will be interacting with - we're following the game and not the novels, so Obould is still a big threat. And I really like the daemonfey and one of my players wants to hunt for Myth Adofhaer, so that trilogy definitely won't be happening as planned. As for other stuff? We'll see. We're in the Silver Marches, so a trip to Menzoberranzan would be cool - and then what do I do with Lolth's Silence? I'm fine with going off the plot and my players are too, so we'll see where our tastes lead us. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 04:12:40
As a 2nd Edition player, my canon stops with the end of that edition, although I will draw on some elements of 3rd Edition that don't conflict and are interesting, although I don't like the big events, like the Dragonrage or the over-detailing of things I think should be mysterious, like the creator races (I really don't like practically everything being an offshoot/magical creation of them). And, often, rumors are just rumors; I didn't like that that it seemed like every rumor in 2nd edition books (often in the Current Clack sections) turned out to be true or at least a reflection of the truth when those areas were detailed in 3e; many of those should absolutely be false.
I also don't acknowledge a number of the back-end changes that happened with the edition changeover. Orcs are still Lawful Evil, kobolds are not reptiles, etc.
Jeff |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 03:15:35
I like the Talos one. Most of the players always underestimate Gruumsh intelligence because he is the god of orcs, but Gruumsh is actually cunning. And this seems like a good idea for increasing his worshiper numbers while Talos was away doing... whatever gods do when they are away...
As for Amaunator/Lathander, the problem is that the god himself said to his Chosen that he was the same being. Your idea will be contradicting canon right away.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and on the idea of NOT having a long drawn out Thayan civil war being a missed opportunity.... that's an additional thing I hope to alleviate with re-introducing the red wizards who flourished in Abeir. Let the war start again.
Hard for that to have happened. In canon, in Abeir magic is even more difficult to cast that in Toril (there is no Weave in Abeir).
|
| Darkmeer |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 00:15:43
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I would like to compile a list of Realms events that everyone has decided to leave out of their games, or even decided to change, because I want to see what the most popular unpopular events are.
Mine.
1: Spellplague never happened.
2: Shade never fell on Myth Drannor.
3: Myth Drannor was never retaken.
4: Szass Tam was not successful in his conquest of Thay. The Zulkirs managed to defeat him and drive him out. He now resides in the Mere of Dead Men slowly gathering an army of undead.
5: Primordials don't exist.
That's all I have at the moment.
I prefer to TRY and walk the curve of the unreliable narrator in all things. Also, a lot of them are more flavor and god related, so their effect on the game is less, but the effect on the backstory of the world is a lot more interesting. So for me:
1) The idea that Leira was killed by Cyric is incorrect. He was fooled.
2) The idea that Dweomerheart was destroyed when Mystra died. Something else happened, and this was the explanation that simply caught on with mortals
3) The idea that while the transferred lands were in Abeir, all divine and arcane magic was disrupted for them is incorrect. In the "lands of belief" ... as the transferred lands began to be called by Abeirans... actually the weave seemed to persist. Slowly, the weave began to spread through that world, though certain areas, such as near the dead bodies of the dawn titans, remained magic dead.
4) The idea that during the spellplague era there were no gods in Abeir is incorrect.
5) The idea that Cyric was "locked away" by the other gods following the spellplague is incorrect.... especially since two of those 3 gods are ones that were either "dead" just following the spellplague or were replaced following it... When Dweomerheart disappeared... guess what, Cyric was in there too... so he went where it went.
6) The idea that Lathander and Amaunator are the same deity is wrong. They are separate entities vying for the "sun" ... whether they are friendly to one another or not is up for debate.
7) The idea that Talos is an aspect of Gruumsh is false. Gruumsh was taking advantage of Talos' absence.
That's the ones that come immediately to mind.
I really like your Leira/Cyric and Lathander/Amaunator comparisons. Since I did no tfollow Talos/Gruumsh, I cannot speak here, but it looks interesting for something with the Spellplague happening. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Feb 2017 : 23:00:25
Oh, and on the idea of NOT having a long drawn out Thayan civil war being a missed opportunity.... that's an additional thing I hope to alleviate with re-introducing the red wizards who flourished in Abeir. Let the war start again.
I gotta say though, there were definitely some parts of that storyline I loved even as I hated them. |
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