| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 06 Jan 2015 : 21:34:39
Does anyone know what Ed's influence on the Realms is so far? I mean I look at these modules that are out and coming out soon and what we are getting are more direct interactions with the gods. I thought Ed wanted less of this?
I've really been looking forward to a return of the older a Realms that I love and I'm afraid, from the looks of it, we will be getting a continuation of the same thing.
 |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 06:52:32
quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
I asked this someplace else, but instead of a retcon or alternate history, what about a Faerun campaign box set millennium, give or take a few centuries, into the past of Fareun, relative to the 1357-ish starting date assumed in the Old Gray Box materials?
I'm think 1st century, DR.
That would be very cool, as I said in that other thread.
If WotC/Hasbro decide to publish at some point a new campaign guide for the Realms, (in my opinon) their template for the book (or part of it at least) is seen in Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Great book, as it is not set for any specific edition, let alone time period.
I haven't seen it, but I've heard good things.
|
| Rymac |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 05:07:13
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
I asked this someplace else, but instead of a retcon or alternate history, what about a Faerun campaign box set millennium, give or take a few centuries, into the past of Fareun, relative to the 1357-ish starting date assumed in the Old Gray Box materials?
I'm think 1st century, DR.
That would be very cool, as I said in that other thread.
If WotC/Hasbro decide to publish at some point a new campaign guide for the Realms, (in my opinon) their template for the book (or part of it at least) is seen in Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Great book, as it is not set for any specific edition, let alone time period. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 04:59:16
112 DR, The Year of the Tusk would be perfect. That map from the old grey box has ALWAYS fascinated me.
I'd be curious to know how much it'd cost to have a map commissioned to enlarge and pretty it up. A 1 or 2 page foldout poster showing ruins and various areas of that era would be /drool!
I've always loved frontier like areas myself. |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 04:18:52
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
If WotC and Ed wanted to do some kind of Kickstarter for a big Realms campaign guide, I would honestly want to know exactly what was going to be in it before I considered spending even a dime.
I would support an expanded "Old Gray Box" with high-quality maps and fleshed-out regional detail (perhaps pulled from Volo guides, in that style).
I wouldn't be interested in buying a post-Spellplague, post-Sundering campaign guide. There's just way too much disagreeable metastory overlay for my tastes. I don't want or need AO and the gods' drama, I don't want or need twinned planets, massive nuking, spellplagues, past-present Sunderings, or sudden reversals that pull old NPCs into the new era. I don't want to buy cheese that I won't eat.
If they went alternate reality, though, and planned a book detailing the Realms that Ed actually uses at home, that might be interesting enough to support.
Thing is, Kickstarters have to appeal to a large number of fans, and usually that means a very straightforward product that all of those people will like. I think the fans of the Realms are too fractured and divided on what they like and don't like to really count as a solid fanbase any more.
I asked this someplace else, but instead of a retcon or alternate history, what about a Faerun campaign box set millennium, give or take a few centuries, into the past of Fareun, relative to the 1357-ish starting date assumed in the Old Gray Box materials?
I'm think 1st century, DR.
Cormyr as a wild frontier kingdom
The Dales as tiny freeholds
Elves well past their great age of glory, but not yet in full Retreat mode
None of the usual suspects/big wheels have been born yet, including Elminster and the Seven Sisters
|
| combatmedic |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 03:53:09
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
It's funny, you can never predict what random word will be blown out of proportion on this site. Someone, somewhere is always watching and waiting to be offended.
Sure, Greyhawk is alive insofar as there are DMs and others out there who do fan-created works and play in it. Commercially, and officially, I wouldn't call it alive and thriving. How many people know about these fan sites? Do they do outreach or is it insular?
YMMV, as always.
If it means anything, I wasn't saying that it was dead simply to be offensive. I was actually lamenting the fact that it was treated pretty badly and hasn't seen very much love lately from the company that could be producing new official material.
Oh, I think you've misread me.
I'm not offended.
Nothing you have written even so much as irks me, Eltheron.
I wasn't even a wee bit peeved by your word choice. That would be silly. We're only discussing games.
I save my limited capacity for taking offense for actual rudeness and bad behavior, and most of that I just chuckle at.
Nothing you've written strikes me as rude, crude, offensive, pushy, or anything like that.
I just didn't think you knew much about post 1993-ish GH publishing history, fansites, fan projects, and so on, given the word you used. .
GH isn't dead or even dormant. It's got a quite vibrant fan base and plenty of people run games with it.
It's just not got a WotC written, for-sale 4E or 5E official conversion.
But that's true of most of the TSR settings.
DMs and players have converted material, and shared their work free of charge.
I don't measure the "health" of campaign settings by how many books are in print. I'm coming at this as a DM and a player, not somebody running a gaming company.
Thus "commercially" doesn't mean a whole lot to me. But of course a wealth of GH (and FR) materials are currently available for purchase from WotC, as PDFs.
I prefer used hardcopy books, but those aren't hard to buy, either.
That other idea, "officially" confuses me a bit. How is that different from commercially?
YMMV
|
| BEAST |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 03:44:10
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
It's funny, you can never predict what random word will be blown out of proportion on this site. Someone, somewhere is always watching and waiting to be offended.
Sure, Greyhawk is alive insofar as there are DMs and others out there who do fan-created works and play in it. Commercially, and officially, I wouldn't call it alive and thriving. How many people know about these fan sites? Do they do outreach or is it insular?
YMMV, as always.
If it means anything, I wasn't saying that it was dead simply to be offensive. I was actually lamenting the fact that it was treated pretty badly and hasn't seen very much love lately from the company that could be producing new official material.
Perhaps "deemed 'dead'" would better encapsulate what you were intending to say?
Or "neglected"? |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 02:06:04
It's funny, you can never predict what random word will be blown out of proportion on this site. Someone, somewhere is always watching and waiting to be offended.
Sure, Greyhawk is alive insofar as there are DMs and others out there who do fan-created works and play in it. Commercially, and officially, I wouldn't call it alive and thriving. How many people know about these fan sites? Do they do outreach or is it insular?
YMMV, as always.
If it means anything, I wasn't saying that it was dead simply to be offensive. I was actually lamenting the fact that it was treated pretty badly and hasn't seen very much love lately from the company that could be producing new official material.
|
| combatmedic |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 01:29:16
quote:
Originally posted by froglegg
Like combatmedic said, just zip on over to Dragonsfoot and tell them Greyhawk is dead.
Warning it will get very ugly very fast.
John
Or zip over to Canonfire and see how GH fans are still putting out new stuff for the great old setting.
I'm a member of both sites, but I haven't been heavily involved in any big GH projects.
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 01:07:53
I'd love to Kickstarter a bunch of things for the Realms, but first and foremost it would have to be a revised GHotR which was referenced, gaps filled in, errors eliminated and with a searchable PDF available also. Of course, that would ultimately mean that no one would buy it long term as someone would post the PDF for free on the internet, but hey the Realms isn't about money.
-- George Krashos |
| froglegg |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 00:48:50
Like combatmedic said, just zip on over to Dragonsfoot and tell them Greyhawk is dead.
Warning it will get very ugly very fast.
John |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 00:20:57
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I always had the impression (from my personal conversations with Ed), that the Realms were always intended to be everyone's Realms. Meaning, it was never designed to be his playground. Rather, the playground of all of our shared imaginations.
I'd agree this is true of Greenwood, but not really how it's played out through the latter period of TSR and now WotC.
On the one hand, it's a relatively sandbox setting that some will encourage you to customize. On the other hand, the metastory-novels have taken more and more precedence since the ToT. NDA prevents us from knowing everything about the Realms and being able to work with it that way, and the majority of Realmsians are greatly disappointed if a DM doesn't match the canon Realms or at least get as close to it as possible. So it's a catch-22 unless your players don't care about perfection.
quote:
Gygax stymied Greyhawk with his dominate control over it.
I don't think this is true at all. Greyhawk had a quirky flavor that not everyone liked, but Gygax didn't do anything that the original "Realms cops" didn't do for the early Realms.
Greyhawk died because modules/publications for it were greatly diminished, and then new people wanted to update and transform it with the "Greyhawk Wars" period. The Wars material wasn't well-liked at all, just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
Greyhawk never died.
Plenty of people play it, and material is still being released online by DMs and designers.
It's just not currently in commercial publication, expect as PDFs.
GH received further books in the later 90s, after the Carl Sargent era.
GH was the default setting for 3.0.
It had the Gazetteer.
Later, the LG Gazetteer.
Oerth Journal and other stuff on the web has continued development.
It's doing quite fine as a campaign setting. Some GH fans want "official" updates to the setting, but I've run into few who seem to think that's imperative.
|
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 23:36:13
I have full faith in Ed so he has my money. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 23:06:52
If WotC and Ed wanted to do some kind of Kickstarter for a big Realms campaign guide, I would honestly want to know exactly what was going to be in it before I considered spending even a dime.
I would support an expanded "Old Gray Box" with high-quality maps and fleshed-out regional detail (perhaps pulled from Volo guides, in that style).
I wouldn't be interested in buying a post-Spellplague, post-Sundering campaign guide. There's just way too much disagreeable metastory overlay for my tastes. I don't want or need AO and the gods' drama, I don't want or need twinned planets, massive nuking, spellplagues, past-present Sunderings, or sudden reversals that pull old NPCs into the new era. I don't want to buy cheese that I won't eat.
If they went alternate reality, though, and planned a book detailing the Realms that Ed actually uses at home, that might be interesting enough to support.
Thing is, Kickstarters have to appeal to a large number of fans, and usually that means a very straightforward product that all of those people will like. I think the fans of the Realms are too fractured and divided on what they like and don't like to really count as a solid fanbase any more.
|
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 21:37:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Funny thing is, George, he doesn't really have to spend a dime.
All we need to happen is for them to 'forget' to allow him to publish a book one year, and all rights revert to him. 
Considering their skeleton crew, and Hasbro's disinterest in D&D, for the 1st time there is actually a (slim) chance of that happening.
And that would be GLORIOUS - Elminster's Forgotten Realms indeed. 
Can he do it on his own? He wouldn't have to, and we both know that. He'd have folks lining-up out the door to help, for nothing else then just to help 'save the Realms'. The writing would go to a profit-sharing model, and I see WotC is already using something similar for their artists (allowing the cartographer to sell the maps himself, to offset their up-front costs). Could be pure win for everyone.
Screw capitalism... I want to move to an FR commune. 
I can't speak to profit-sharing, but there is precedent for what you're speaking about.
Some time ago, during my meanderings in the Webways, I saw a Kickstarter campaign for, of all things, Traveller, one of the few RPGs (as old bastards like me were around to see) that was available in the 1970s.
How could this be? Is someone trying to cheat Marc Miller out of his copyri - oh wait...the Kickstarter was started by Marc Miller.
Long story short, that campaign kicked out a massive book after being funded at over 1,200% (not a typo...1,200% +), and the main source of input for the universe of the Imperium in the book was the man who started it all: Marc Miller.
Could we do something like this for the Realms if the opportunity ever presented itself? I would say that I'd bet serious money that we could, except that I'd be saving said serious money to contribute to the project (and as a rule, I do not trust Kickstarter). If Ed got control back, and decided to do what Marc Miller did (and realizing that what was produced would likely be pure Lore, or if there were game mechanics, it would likely be a different, rather generic sort), I think the Realms folk would step up with Mastercards held up and at the ready. I know I would.
- OMH |
| Rymac |
Posted - 15 Jan 2015 : 18:39:57
quote:
Originally posted by Austin the Archmage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'll tell you one thing, Greyhawk is FAR more consistent then The Realms, despite all its short-comings.
Well, it also had far less written about it, so.
Going off on a brief tangent...
Greyhawk even has its purists. There is the Gygax Greyhawk, and then there is the post-Gygax Greyhawk. Purists only go with the first, when Gary left TSR. Basically, they only go with Gygax's vision. If there are competing visions of Greyhawk, Gary's version if the word of God. I could go into more detail, but Candlekeep probably isn't the place for it. |
| Austin the Archmage |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 17:11:38
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'll tell you one thing, Greyhawk is FAR more consistent then The Realms, despite all its short-comings.
Well, it also had far less written about it, so. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 14:52:46
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
One thing to remember is Ed Greenwood is the "true voice of the Realms" if not in print. Ed retained certain rights, anything he does say is canon unless over ruled by what TSR or WotC had/has decided is canon.
Yes there are many that design the Realms and determine canon these days, however all unanswered questions can only be answered from the source (Which becomes canon, unless WotC writes something else).
You mean like how Ed had albino (white) Drow, and TSR changed them to be more like Greyhawk's?
Like I said, I think Ed should be tapped when one is writing something in the Realms, just so that some of those 'deeper secrets' don't get screwed-over. NOT because "ED knoweth all!", but because it has a 'domino effect', as I said earlier. For example: Once they created the Shadow Weave and started redefining what the Weave was, it made lots of other things fall apart. The fact that I can't find two designers who even agree on what the relationship is between the two weaves is very telling. I am sure Ed knows - it may have even been one of his 'deeper secrets', but when you let others 'play with your toys', sometimes they get broken.
And thats precisely what Gary Gygax was worried about. The folks who had to work with him were probably pissed-off because all their 'kewl' ideas weren't getting used, and they now portray him as a tyrant. Suppose you had a new car - would you let everyone on the block spray paint all over it? Which is worse - GG's anal control over GH, or Ed's complete lack of control over FR? I'll tell you one thing, Greyhawk is FAR more consistent then The Realms, despite all its short-comings.
I cant answer your question about GH since I know next to nothing about that setting. I will say though, that I do find that perhaps a mix of the two would be the best. For instance the whole change from the great wheel to the great tree cosmology is still really dificult for me to understand, so too the whole understanding of what and how magic excist on other planes where the weave is not present. I think that or whould like to think, that these are some of the problems with letting anyone loose in your creation. Although I cant say for sure.
If I had my own setting, I think I would want to have the last say in terms of canon lore and happenings. Yes that would demand a lot of work, but thats how I am.
These are all just personal speculations of mine. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 13:25:11
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
One thing to remember is Ed Greenwood is the "true voice of the Realms" if not in print. Ed retained certain rights, anything he does say is canon unless over ruled by what TSR or WotC had/has decided is canon.
Yes there are many that design the Realms and determine canon these days, however all unanswered questions can only be answered from the source (Which becomes canon, unless WotC writes something else).
You mean like how Ed had albino (white) Drow, and TSR changed them to be more like Greyhawk's?
Like I said, I think Ed should be tapped when one is writing something in the Realms, just so that some of those 'deeper secrets' don't get screwed-over. NOT because "ED knoweth all!", but because it has a 'domino effect', as I said earlier. For example: Once they created the Shadow Weave and started redefining what the Weave was, it made lots of other things fall apart. The fact that I can't find two designers who even agree on what the relationship is between the two weaves is very telling. I am sure Ed knows - it may have even been one of his 'deeper secrets', but when you let others 'play with your toys', sometimes they get broken.
And thats precisely what Gary Gygax was worried about. The folks who had to work with him were probably pissed-off because all their 'kewl' ideas weren't getting used, and they now portray him as a tyrant. Suppose you had a new car - would you let everyone on the block spray paint all over it? Which is worse - GG's anal control over GH, or Ed's complete lack of control over FR? I'll tell you one thing, Greyhawk is FAR more consistent then The Realms, despite all its short-comings. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 11:26:44
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
Actually, once WotC published something that contradicted Ed, their lore would be correct. Ed's word is canon until superseded by WotC.
As for why someone would contradict him... Not knowing what Ed said or intended would be one reason. Having a different creative vision would be another; this would include the sad tendency to throw something in because the designer thinks it's cool, not because it works for the setting.
Indeed... My point being that I would always follow Ed's word before any random designer. Not that I dont respect the designers, but I respect Ed more, if that makes sense. I personally still, despite what he and others have said, think its his and that he just allows others to design within his sphere.
I do think however, that a lot of good have come from other designers, but that in terms of the last years I have to be honest and say that I dont like what has happened. That might be sort of the reason formy animosity of other designers of late. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 05:15:40
My "quasi-insider", likely biased and definitely jaundiced view is that the best FR work has always come from people who 'cared' about the Realms. Now that's a fairly broad, subjective, oblique descriptor I know, but if you analyse it, that element of care can be exhibited in many ways. From Erin Evans leaning on the 'go to guy' for Cormyr (our very own Brian "Garen Thal" Cortijo - a fantastic bloke) to make sure that her writing was 'true' to the Cormyr in print, to Eric Boyd re-writing Under Illefarn for the fun of it, to Steven Schend sending out a call for lore to the fanbase when he was preparing to write "Lands of Intrigue", to Ed and THO graciously fielding our Realms questions here on a daily basis, to Brian James working his butt off on a fan project that utimately saw print - all of these examples spoke to me about their passion for the setting, their attempt to give the fans "what they want" and their commitment to trying to get it right, thinking and writing deeply about their subject matter and wanting to leave a better Realms behind after they'd had a turn in the sandbox.
Now I'll declare that I know most of the examples above well enough (save for Erin who I only met at the last GEN-CON) to be biased in my view on them, their work and motivations. While that may be the case, it isn't suprising that when you see threads on "My Favourite FR product", most of the names noted above feature prominently. Fiction is a slightly different beast because people like what they like and my opinion on what makes a "good Realms novel" likely revolves around very different factors to a lot of other people. That said, the FR fiction I like is the FR fiction that showcases the Realms, provides sneaky realmslore (mentions of people, places, events, plants, drinks, magic ... you name it) and tips the hat to "what has gone before" (loved Salvatore's use of the lich Ebonsoul in his Sundering novel - brilliant!). Again, IMO the only writers who bother to do this are the ones that "care".
Through all this, in my experience, those that "care" about the Realms, care also for a certain Ed Greenwood, respect his views and his "baby" and talk to him about their turn in the sandbox. That doesn't mean they do what Ed wants, far from it; it means that they respect and understand that anything he tells them or comments on isn't to pander to his own ego, but rather is to help create and grow a better Realms.
So IMO, Ed's influence is enormous - with those individuals who care about the Realms. For those who care less or don't care at all and just want to be paid for their labours (and understandably so), his influence is likely far less.
-- George Krashos |
| BEAST |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 04:17:07
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
Or how about saying that some orcs are red, and some others are green, and your DM gets to decide which particular flavor of orcs that your party will face in any given gaming session?
I mean, it's not as if humans and elves only come in one color, is it?
In general, I try to approach lore discrepancies in such a way as to hold up newer material as supplementing older lore as much as possible, rather than necessarily outright supplanting it. I like to be able to keep the good stuff from whatever source, and pad it with even more good stuff from other sources, and in so doing concoct a joyous Frankenstein monster of good stuff. And I'm rather proud of the abstract mutt floating around in my head as a result of all that, too.  |
| BEAST |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 04:09:54
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
If you get the chance to come listen to the original TSR folks, you might be surprised to find just how unbending Gygax was in allowing others to work on Greyhawk, and why it was a detriment to the setting.
A detriment to the setting, and players? Or just a detriment to the designers who wanted to inject ideas and themes Gygax didn't think would work well in the setting?
Listening to "insiders" you're only getting their personal opinion, not necessarily the truth.
In my experience, many insiders are so color-blinded by their own personal views and values that they can't be objective. And many of them don't even try to be, they're so convinced they're right. Precisely because they're insiders.
Whether Gygax was right or not in thinking that others' ideas would not fit, and whether or not the others were right in thinking their ideas would fit, it should still be fairly simple to determine as a matter of fact and not opinion whether Gygax was unbending towards their ideas. This need not be turned into a Gygax-good, insiders-bad kinda-sorta thing. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 04:04:34
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
No other author/creator is given credibility by some people here unless they have "Ed's seal of approval". One just needs to look at the scroll concerning Fire in the Blood to see it.
Or how about any RAS-related scroll, like, ever.
And sometimes not even then. Ed's stamp of approval gets waved away as him simply being kind. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 03:43:12
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
Actually, once WotC published something that contradicted Ed, their lore would be correct. Ed's word is canon until superseded by WotC.
As for why someone would contradict him... Not knowing what Ed said or intended would be one reason. Having a different creative vision would be another; this would include the sad tendency to throw something in because the designer thinks it's cool, not because it works for the setting. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 01:11:02
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I have never met Ed Greenwood, but this has always been my impression whenever I've read interviews with him.
Which is why I get annoyed when I see people act like Ed is the only true voice of the Realms. The Realms stopped being Ed's personal playground since other creators started adding to it over 20 years ago.
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
One thing to remember is Ed Greenwood is the "true voice of the Realms" if not in print. Ed retained certain rights, anything he does say is canon unless over ruled by what TSR or WotC had/has decided is canon.
Yes there are many that design the Realms and determine canon these days, however all unanswered questions can only be answered from the source (Which becomes canon, unless WotC writes something else).
|
| Kentinal |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 21:50:57
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I have never met Ed Greenwood, but this has always been my impression whenever I've read interviews with him.
Which is why I get annoyed when I see people act like Ed is the only true voice of the Realms. The Realms stopped being Ed's personal playground since other creators started adding to it over 20 years ago.
One thing to remember is Ed Greenwood is the "true voice of the Realms" if not in print. Ed retained certain rights, anything he does say is canon unless over ruled by what TSR or WotC had/has decided is canon.
Yes there are many that design the Realms and determine canon these days, however all unanswered questions can only be answered from the source (Which becomes canon, unless WotC writes something else). |
| Irennan |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 21:10:52
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
At most I'd say that only really applies to the Spellplague, and I'm still convinced even that was due to the time-jump.
I'd say more that the whole changes between the end of 3e and 4e have been disliked because they -as a whole- nuked lands and got rid of a lot deities, characters and organizations that people liked about the setting. It was a giant explosion and its main effect basically was removing stuff (and dropping some lands from the skies).
There's a reason why they are reverting so much of that, or why they have so extensively talked about the return of the old faces and feel. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 20:49:36
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
A detriment to the setting, and players? Or just a detriment to the designers who wanted to inject ideas and themes Gygax didn't think would work well in the setting?
Listening to "insiders" you're only getting their personal opinion, not necessarily the truth.
In my experience, many insiders are so color-blinded by their own personal views and values that they can't be objective. And many of them don't even try to be, they're so convinced they're right. Precisely because they're insiders.
Ok |
| Laeknir |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 20:32:30
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
I don't think this is true at all. Greyhawk had a quirky flavor that not everyone liked, but Gygax didn't do anything that the original "Realms cops" didn't do for the early Realms.
Greyhawk died because modules/publications for it were greatly diminished, and then new people wanted to update and transform it with the "Greyhawk Wars" period. The Wars material wasn't well-liked at all, just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
If you get the chance to come listen to the original TSR folks, you might be surprised to find just how unbending Gygax was in allowing others to work on Greyhawk, and why it was a detriment to the setting.
A detriment to the setting, and players? Or just a detriment to the designers who wanted to inject ideas and themes Gygax didn't think would work well in the setting?
Listening to "insiders" you're only getting their personal opinion, not necessarily the truth.
In my experience, many insiders are so color-blinded by their own personal views and values that they can't be objective. And many of them don't even try to be, they're so convinced they're right. Precisely because they're insiders.
|
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 19:46:53
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I always had the impression (from my personal conversations with Ed), that the Realms were always intended to be everyone's Realms. Meaning, it was never designed to be his playground. Rather, the playground of all of our shared imaginations.
I have never met Ed Greenwood, but this has always been my impression whenever I've read interviews with him.
Which is why I get annoyed when I see people act like Ed is the only true voice of the Realms. The Realms stopped being Ed's personal playground since other creators started adding to it over 20 years ago.
As for the gods of the Realms, even Ed Greenwood had them directly interacting with mortals, so I wouldn't like to see that gone. I like my gods to be actual characters and not just some abstract thing way in the background. That's what makes the setting fun for me. Some people may hate ToT, but the Avatar trilogy, despite its flaws (and it sure has its fair share of them) to me was the best depiction of an edition transition with allowing us to see the changes happening directly. The Spellplague and the Sundering both seem to have very interesting background stories, the problem is the lack of information given to us. The Spellplague only had the Empyrean Oddyssey touching it from a distance, and the Sundering was even worse.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It comes down to this - he knows the truth about the 'inner workings' and 'deeper secrets' of the Forgotten Realms, and usually when major inconsistencies crop-up (*cough* The Weave *cough*). Others have felt they could change some of those things - knowingly or unknowingly - and thats where problems begin to snowball. You see, when you really 'look under the hood' you begin to see the deeper story, and its all very consistent, and has a certain glorious logic it to it. Everything is connected on some level.
But that's just the thing, this functions on the premise that Ed is the only true voice of the Realms, even though the Realms have certainly deviated greatly from its original incarnation. No other author/creator is given credibility by some people here unless they have "Ed's seal of approval". One just needs to look at the scroll concerning Fire in the Blood to see it.
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
At most I'd say that only really applies to the Spellplague, and I'm still convinced even that was due to the time-jump. |
|
|
