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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jan 2015 : 21:34:39
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Does anyone know what Ed's influence on the Realms is so far? I mean I look at these modules that are out and coming out soon and what we are getting are more direct interactions with the gods. I thought Ed wanted less of this?
I've really been looking forward to a return of the older a Realms that I love and I'm afraid, from the looks of it, we will be getting a continuation of the same thing.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2015 : 21:45:06
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I suspect that the threats presented in the modules will all be of escalating reach. IMO by starting off with saving the world from the dragons and their goddess, they have set a sort of standard: anything less than that will look tame and will pale in comparison with the ''kewlness'' of facing a world-threatening menace. As I see it, in order to keep it ''interesting'' (according to them), they will keep dishing out modules based on apocalytic-like storylines where the fate of the universe is in the hands of a few awesome heroes and yada yada yada, which means more interaction with evil cosmic forces.
Granted, these are just my 2 cents, but if I'm right about this, then I see it getting very old, very fast -especially if they just use the same plot template and apply it to every module (recover the X artifacts of doom and prevent the big bad thing from happening -which seems to apply to the Elemental Evil story as well, with those prophets' magical swords IIRC-).
But then again, I think (or more precisely, I hope) that Ed's influence will be seen in the FRCS, when/if it will get released. If I understood it correctly, these adventures are meant to be D&D modules before being FR stories. My guess is that they chose FR as a pseudo-setting for those because they have to release some Realms gaming material every year, otherwise the ownership reverts to Ed, AFAIK.
If these modules are all that we'll be getting for the Realms, then I guess that the published FR are near their death  |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 06 Jan 2015 22:01:18 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2015 : 22:13:43
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My guess is that Ed had zero input/approval on Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I haven't read Rise of Tiamat yet, but I don't see anything in HotDQ that reminds me of Ed. He's not given any love in the credits, though, so I'm pretty sure they didn't even talk to him about it. (Sure would be awkward if I turned out to be wrong about that.)
Ed's really busy writing, lately, so I'm confident that his input is coming... but I don't think much of his work is here yet, outside of Ed Greenwood Presents and The Herald... and maybe some online articles? (I don't have DDI, so I dunno what's there.)
Is there a source for the ownership of the Realms reverting to Ed if WotC stops publishing? That would be crazyawesome, but it's tough to imagine TSR/WotC agreeing to that. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2015 : 23:12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Is there a source for the ownership of the Realms reverting to Ed if WotC stops publishing? That would be crazyawesome, but it's tough to imagine TSR/WotC agreeing to that.
It was a clause in the original agreement with TSR.
Considering that Ed is not a publishing company, though, I don't think that having the rights revert to him is the best idea. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2015 : 23:13:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Does anyone know what Ed's influence on the Realms is so far? I mean I look at these modules that are out and coming out soon and what we are getting are more direct interactions with the gods. I thought Ed wanted less of this?
I've really been looking forward to a return of the older a Realms that I love and I'm afraid, from the looks of it, we will be getting a continuation of the same thing.
What we're getting right now is more "filler" material than anything else, it seems.
We've been promised that Ed will have more involvement, and he told me himself he was excited... So I'm expecting to see heavy Ed influence on the campaign setting book, which is likely quietly being worked on right now. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2015 : 23:54:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It was a clause in the original agreement with TSR.
Considering that Ed is not a publishing company, though, I don't think that having the rights revert to him is the best idea.
Nice! Hopefully it's still in place.
It's good because of the worst-case scenario, where WotC gets downsized to zero employees (rather than sold) by Hasbro. My understanding is that corporate entities normally retain control over copyrights they've purchased, even if they fold and nobody works there anymore. In that situation, nobody could legally publish Realms material.
Ed may not be a publishing company, but he has friends and fans who are publishers. I'm just glad if "the bases are covered."
It means we can rest easy knowing that somebody will be publishing Realms material. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4696 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2015 : 00:09:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Is there a source for the ownership of the Realms reverting to Ed if WotC stops publishing? That would be crazyawesome, but it's tough to imagine TSR/WotC agreeing to that.
It was a clause in the original agreement with TSR.
Considering that Ed is not a publishing company, though, I don't think that having the rights revert to him is the best idea.
As I understand it the clause was that if Ed was not published a novel once a year or that he accepted payment in lieu of a published novel, the rights to FR would (perhaps could) revert to him.
As noted it is unlikely that Ed would even want the rights back considering the lack of infrastructure to be able to publish and do all the other things required to change the realm to his view of what it should be ongoing. I suspect in some ways if rights did revert is that he would want to rewrite the history, however the legal complications of trying to do so would be extreme.
So basically it is unlikely, based on what I understand, that Ed would want the rights back. As also noted WotC clearly would not just give away anything that is earning a profit. Hasbro might want better profit, however they also will not give away anything that has a positive bottom line.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Corwyn the Errant
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 09:31:18
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I imagine, with the possibility of crowdfunding, a kickstarter would raise more than enough money for Mr. Greenwood to publish just about anything our lore-hungry hearts could desire. That would be quite the task for him to undertake, but, as someone above mentioned, I'm sure there would be no lack of knowledgeable folks willing to lend a hand.
Of course, he'd have to get the rights back first....well, a fellow can dream, can't he?... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 13:16:25
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This is a tough one for me. I know Ed is "hard at work on Realmslore", but I don't know how much it impacts the current line of (gaming) products.
I'm fairly certain he gave the 'general direction' the lore needs to take moving forward, but thats just 'backdrop'. It wouldn't really matter what was happening in the world; the current crop of modules could be inserted anywhere, anytime, with very little effort.
So basically, IMO, we won't see his true influence until they come out with a more lore-driven product, like a campaign guide. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jan 2015 13:18:04 |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 20:21:38
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I don't think that Ed will ever be the Messiah that so many people here seem to believe that he is.
Do you guys really think it's feasible for Ed to have a personal involvement in all Realms material? He's the creator of the Realms, but he's stil human. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 20:40:18
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1)As far as I can tell, it could be possible for a single person to be involved in all the FR material, given that at the moment very little is being made, far far less than 3e and even than 4e (I mean, their announced pace of 1-2 adventure arcs/year and 3-4 novels/year, with the FRCS being a huge ''?'', is not exactly fast or impressive).
2)I think that what many people wish for is more something along the lines of Ed being at the ''helm'' of FR, having ''authority''/influence on the direction that the setting and lore will take, on what will happen to locales, organizations, deities and so on. He is/has been writing lore and story bibles for all the post Sundering Realms AFAIK, so I guess that it is totally possible. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Jan 2015 20:44:22 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 00:01:22
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I think Ed would certainly be capable of taking the Realms forward if publishing rights were ever to revert to him, or he was able to gain those publishing rights. He has many friends in and out of the industry and Kickstarter would be an obvious first move. He could even do a re-boot of the lauded Ol' Grey Box - but better. I'd have lots of $$$ to pony up for something like that.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 00:25:54
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"I don't think that Ed will ever be the Messiah that so many people here seem to believe that he is."
I think he is, and always has been, Tanthalas.
But then I define "Messiah" as the guy who holds the Realms in his head, spins new lore and tales of the Realms constantly, and whom we can personally turn to, to get a taste of the "real" Realms by his answers to our questions, no matter what happens with the published products.
I think he does have personal involvement in everything Wizards lets him have involvement in. What he doesn't have is control.
But he's been here for me whenever I've asked him for something. That's a "Messiah" to me.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 00:47:02
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Funny thing is, George, he doesn't really have to spend a dime.
All we need to happen is for them to 'forget' to allow him to publish a book one year, and all rights revert to him. 
Considering their skeleton crew, and Hasbro's disinterest in D&D, for the 1st time there is actually a (slim) chance of that happening.
And that would be GLORIOUS - Elminster's Forgotten Realms indeed. 
Can he do it on his own? He wouldn't have to, and we both know that. He'd have folks lining-up out the door to help, for nothing else then just to help 'save the Realms'. The writing would go to a profit-sharing model, and I see WotC is already using something similar for their artists (allowing the cartographer to sell the maps himself, to offset their up-front costs). Could be pure win for everyone.
Screw capitalism... I want to move to an FR commune. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Jan 2015 00:47:28 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2015 : 04:03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Screw capitalism... I want to move to an FR commune.
Would that make you a hippie-dragon, or a hippodragon? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 14:42:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm
I think he is, and always has been, Tanthalas.
Well, I guess that's the big difference between me and many people here.
I was first exposed to the Realms through the PC BG games, then the IWD games and after that the Drizzt and Elminster novels and a lot of lore that I came upon over the net.
Basically, the Realms isn't just Ed for me, it's something that Ed first created and that has since had the influence of a myriad of other creators.
I simply don't share this ridiculous notion that everything that is "wrong" in the Realms is automatically because Ed didn't have a hand in it. Worse, I also don't subscribe to the notion that when Ed makes something bad then it's TSR/WotC/Hasbro's fault for forcing him to do it.
In respect to this specific scroll. One of the most interesting aspects of the Realms to me is how the presence of the gods can be felt. I certainly don't want the gods to become something that is just mentioned in passing. Hell, even Ed has the gods taking direct action in several of his stories. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 15:14:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
In respect to this specific scroll. One of the most interesting aspects of the Realms to me is how the presence of the gods can be felt. I certainly don't want the gods to become something that is just mentioned in passing. Hell, even Ed has the gods taking direct action in several of his stories.
I too like that aspect of the gods in FR, but it has been stretched far too much, with divine drama being all over the place, at times even portraying the involved deities in a ridiculous way or out of their character. I like having them getting involved when the situation requires them to do so (and it does make sense, for example when mortals' decisions or actions which are critical to the deity's goal could be guided by said god's giving a simple word, clarification or help, instead of being ''mysterious'' --and stupidly so--).
Of course, as usual balance is key. If every (or most of the) important or 'big' events is about a deity doing whatever thing, or about some uber evil elder/cosmic/pseudo-divine being threatening the world, then it gets very old, very fast. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 10 Jan 2015 15:17:18 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 15:45:21
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In the 2E trilogy of god books, each deity has a section on manifestations. It discusses how they show pleasure or displeasure with minor, not as "Oh My Deity!" displays as some authors have portrayed. A deity might have a coin or gemstone show up in an odd place, or the worshipper might hear a particular sound or taste something no one else does... Taking it to the next level would be a favored critter or something similar, like the White Stag in the Chronicles trilogy of Dragonlance -- more than just a minor sign, but still far less than an avatar coming round for tea.
That's the kind of divine influence I would prefer to see more of, and if I was running a campaign in the Realms, that's what I would do.
I actually did use something similar, when writing up one of my Lords of Waterdeep -- first, the three characters all had similar dreams, then the dreams included Corellon's holy symbol, and eventually, a series of crescent-shaped stones pointed them in the right direction to go do what he wanted. Minor efforts on the part of the deity, aiming folks in the right direction. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 15:55:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In the 2E trilogy of god books, each deity has a section on manifestations. It discusses how they show pleasure or displeasure with minor, not as "Oh My Deity!" displays as some authors have portrayed. A deity might have a coin or gemstone show up in an odd place, or the worshipper might hear a particular sound or taste something no one else does... Taking it to the next level would be a favored critter or something similar, like the White Stag in the Chronicles trilogy of Dragonlance -- more than just a minor sign, but still far less than an avatar coming round for tea.
That's the kind of divine influence I would prefer to see more of, and if I was running a campaign in the Realms, that's what I would do.
I actually did use something similar, when writing up one of my Lords of Waterdeep -- first, the three characters all had similar dreams, then the dreams included Corellon's holy symbol, and eventually, a series of crescent-shaped stones pointed them in the right direction to go do what he wanted. Minor efforts on the part of the deity, aiming folks in the right direction.
Yes, I remember those info, and that's how deities are felt, in addition to -I'd say- emotions for a more 'intenese' communication.
In some rare cases that require it, IMO it would also make sense for a deity to intervene or get involved more personally/clearly, but gods soap operas cheapen the deities to mere hyper-powered mortals (who have a tendency to die like flies, at that). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 10 Jan 2015 15:58:21 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 16:00:15
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I am not going to sit here and say "everything Ed does is golden". I'm also not going to be saying everything others have placed in The Realms is garbage.
It comes down to this - he knows the truth about the 'inner workings' and 'deeper secrets' of the Forgotten Realms, and usually when major inconsistencies crop-up (*cough* The Weave *cough*). Others have felt they could change some of those things - knowingly or unknowingly - and thats where problems begin to snowball. You see, when you really 'look under the hood' you begin to see the deeper story, and its all very consistent, and has a certain glorious logic it to it. Everything is connected on some level.
That means the published Realms is like jenga - every time someone decides to remove a piece, there is a chance of a bunch of other stuff comes tumbling down. THIS is what they need Ed for - to tell them when something is going to have a domino effect on dozens of other things. No-one else can do that nearly as well as him, since he created it all originally. So when it comes to the published Realms, then NO, Ed "doesn't know everything"... and shouldn't have to. All he needs to see is the Big Picture, and he does, and he knows precisely when that picture is out-of-focus.
As for the gods - he portrays them correctly (how could he not?) They are aloof, have 'bigger things on their minds', not beyond using mortals as disposable tools (even the 'good' ones), and when they do make rare appearances, it's almost never as full-body avatars (except to their Chosen and specific 'blessed' individuals). The deities need mortals to know 'they are watching', so they send a sign every now and then. I believe the modern term for this is 'getting stroked'.
What they don't do is walk around the planet in mortal bodies, acting like a pack of spoiled children, making idiotic mistakes! Even if they are really like that (like the Greek pantheon), they would not show that side of themselves to 'mere mortals', who are supposed to 'tremble in their boots at the mere sight of them'. The last thing a god wants is for mortals to lose respect (fear?) for them! Thus, the avatar crisis created a VERY bad precedent, and any authors who followed that format after the ToT shouldn't have.
IMO, of course. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jan 2015 13:26:58 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 17:49:13
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I always had the impression (from my personal conversations with Ed), that the Realms were always intended to be everyone's Realms. Meaning, it was never designed to be his playground. Rather, the playground of all of our shared imaginations.
Gygax stymied Greyhawk with his dominate control over it. |
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Laeknir
Seeker
68 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 18:21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I always had the impression (from my personal conversations with Ed), that the Realms were always intended to be everyone's Realms. Meaning, it was never designed to be his playground. Rather, the playground of all of our shared imaginations.
I'd agree this is true of Greenwood, but not really how it's played out through the latter period of TSR and now WotC.
On the one hand, it's a relatively sandbox setting that some will encourage you to customize. On the other hand, the metastory-novels have taken more and more precedence since the ToT. NDA prevents us from knowing everything about the Realms and being able to work with it that way, and the majority of Realmsians are greatly disappointed if a DM doesn't match the canon Realms or at least get as close to it as possible. So it's a catch-22 unless your players don't care about perfection.
quote:
Gygax stymied Greyhawk with his dominate control over it.
I don't think this is true at all. Greyhawk had a quirky flavor that not everyone liked, but Gygax didn't do anything that the original "Realms cops" didn't do for the early Realms.
Greyhawk died because modules/publications for it were greatly diminished, and then new people wanted to update and transform it with the "Greyhawk Wars" period. The Wars material wasn't well-liked at all, just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 19:45:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
I don't think this is true at all. Greyhawk had a quirky flavor that not everyone liked, but Gygax didn't do anything that the original "Realms cops" didn't do for the early Realms.
Greyhawk died because modules/publications for it were greatly diminished, and then new people wanted to update and transform it with the "Greyhawk Wars" period. The Wars material wasn't well-liked at all, just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
If you get the chance to come listen to the original TSR folks, you might be surprised to find just how unbending Gygax was in allowing others to work on Greyhawk, and why it was a detriment to the setting. |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 19:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I always had the impression (from my personal conversations with Ed), that the Realms were always intended to be everyone's Realms. Meaning, it was never designed to be his playground. Rather, the playground of all of our shared imaginations.
I have never met Ed Greenwood, but this has always been my impression whenever I've read interviews with him.
Which is why I get annoyed when I see people act like Ed is the only true voice of the Realms. The Realms stopped being Ed's personal playground since other creators started adding to it over 20 years ago.
As for the gods of the Realms, even Ed Greenwood had them directly interacting with mortals, so I wouldn't like to see that gone. I like my gods to be actual characters and not just some abstract thing way in the background. That's what makes the setting fun for me. Some people may hate ToT, but the Avatar trilogy, despite its flaws (and it sure has its fair share of them) to me was the best depiction of an edition transition with allowing us to see the changes happening directly. The Spellplague and the Sundering both seem to have very interesting background stories, the problem is the lack of information given to us. The Spellplague only had the Empyrean Oddyssey touching it from a distance, and the Sundering was even worse.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It comes down to this - he knows the truth about the 'inner workings' and 'deeper secrets' of the Forgotten Realms, and usually when major inconsistencies crop-up (*cough* The Weave *cough*). Others have felt they could change some of those things - knowingly or unknowingly - and thats where problems begin to snowball. You see, when you really 'look under the hood' you begin to see the deeper story, and its all very consistent, and has a certain glorious logic it to it. Everything is connected on some level.
But that's just the thing, this functions on the premise that Ed is the only true voice of the Realms, even though the Realms have certainly deviated greatly from its original incarnation. No other author/creator is given credibility by some people here unless they have "Ed's seal of approval". One just needs to look at the scroll concerning Fire in the Blood to see it.
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
At most I'd say that only really applies to the Spellplague, and I'm still convinced even that was due to the time-jump. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 13 Jan 2015 19:59:34 |
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Laeknir
Seeker
68 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 20:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
I don't think this is true at all. Greyhawk had a quirky flavor that not everyone liked, but Gygax didn't do anything that the original "Realms cops" didn't do for the early Realms.
Greyhawk died because modules/publications for it were greatly diminished, and then new people wanted to update and transform it with the "Greyhawk Wars" period. The Wars material wasn't well-liked at all, just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
If you get the chance to come listen to the original TSR folks, you might be surprised to find just how unbending Gygax was in allowing others to work on Greyhawk, and why it was a detriment to the setting.
A detriment to the setting, and players? Or just a detriment to the designers who wanted to inject ideas and themes Gygax didn't think would work well in the setting?
Listening to "insiders" you're only getting their personal opinion, not necessarily the truth.
In my experience, many insiders are so color-blinded by their own personal views and values that they can't be objective. And many of them don't even try to be, they're so convinced they're right. Precisely because they're insiders.
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Edited by - Laeknir on 13 Jan 2015 20:35:27 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 20:49:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
A detriment to the setting, and players? Or just a detriment to the designers who wanted to inject ideas and themes Gygax didn't think would work well in the setting?
Listening to "insiders" you're only getting their personal opinion, not necessarily the truth.
In my experience, many insiders are so color-blinded by their own personal views and values that they can't be objective. And many of them don't even try to be, they're so convinced they're right. Precisely because they're insiders.
Ok |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 21:10:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
just as massive RSEs in the Realms have been disliked.
At most I'd say that only really applies to the Spellplague, and I'm still convinced even that was due to the time-jump.
I'd say more that the whole changes between the end of 3e and 4e have been disliked because they -as a whole- nuked lands and got rid of a lot deities, characters and organizations that people liked about the setting. It was a giant explosion and its main effect basically was removing stuff (and dropping some lands from the skies).
There's a reason why they are reverting so much of that, or why they have so extensively talked about the return of the old faces and feel. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 13 Jan 2015 21:13:32 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4696 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 21:50:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I have never met Ed Greenwood, but this has always been my impression whenever I've read interviews with him.
Which is why I get annoyed when I see people act like Ed is the only true voice of the Realms. The Realms stopped being Ed's personal playground since other creators started adding to it over 20 years ago.
One thing to remember is Ed Greenwood is the "true voice of the Realms" if not in print. Ed retained certain rights, anything he does say is canon unless over ruled by what TSR or WotC had/has decided is canon.
Yes there are many that design the Realms and determine canon these days, however all unanswered questions can only be answered from the source (Which becomes canon, unless WotC writes something else). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 01:11:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I have never met Ed Greenwood, but this has always been my impression whenever I've read interviews with him.
Which is why I get annoyed when I see people act like Ed is the only true voice of the Realms. The Realms stopped being Ed's personal playground since other creators started adding to it over 20 years ago.
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
One thing to remember is Ed Greenwood is the "true voice of the Realms" if not in print. Ed retained certain rights, anything he does say is canon unless over ruled by what TSR or WotC had/has decided is canon.
Yes there are many that design the Realms and determine canon these days, however all unanswered questions can only be answered from the source (Which becomes canon, unless WotC writes something else).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 03:43:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Why would anyone write stuff about Forgotten Realms, that contradicted what Ed had said? If Ed said that Orc are red skinned and WotC says green, that does not change that orcs are red-skinned. It would just be aother one of these typos that has found its way into the products.
Actually, once WotC published something that contradicted Ed, their lore would be correct. Ed's word is canon until superseded by WotC.
As for why someone would contradict him... Not knowing what Ed said or intended would be one reason. Having a different creative vision would be another; this would include the sad tendency to throw something in because the designer thinks it's cool, not because it works for the setting. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 04:04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
No other author/creator is given credibility by some people here unless they have "Ed's seal of approval". One just needs to look at the scroll concerning Fire in the Blood to see it.
Or how about any RAS-related scroll, like, ever.
And sometimes not even then. Ed's stamp of approval gets waved away as him simply being kind. |
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Does anyone know what Ed's influence is so far?
