| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Snow |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 00:42:10
There's not a lot of Candlekeep scrolls dedicated to the discussion of the deceased (albeit, with a hitch) god, Moander.
While Moander the Darkbringer was decisively destroyed and replaced by Finder Wyvernspur during the ToT, a few official canon sources have indicated that the Jawed God is still hanging on by a thread in a severely reduced form while he floats adrift on the Astral Plane. References include:
1. Volo's Guide to the Dalelands [2E] - At least a portion of Moander's power and sentience is still imprisoned in Darkwatch.
2. Powers of Faerun [3E - P. 117] - There is a flickering sentience of the 'dead' god" which has awakened. To be fully restored requires this spark to be fed more power (the likes of another avatar or a couple Chosen, etc).
3. Lost Empires of Faerun [3E P. 9] - The Servant of the Fallen feat mentions Moander as a possible patron deity. Okay, this may be a stretch, but it kinda implies that there's a glimmer of sentience left in the Darkbringer.
... and as of 3E, Lolth was reported to still be granting spells to the few remaining members of the Rotting God's clergy.
*******************
So my question to all of you is ... how would you see Moander returning back to the generous "deity recall" of 5E Forgotten Realms?
I realize it is perhaps odd for a woman like me to be intrigued with such an icky god. But the botanist and horticulturist in me finds the inevitableness of organic rotting and decay in the Cycle of Life ... to require a god properly befitting of that title. And Finder just doesn't do it for me (thematically). So yeah, I want the Big Lug back.  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Storyteller Hero |
Posted - 16 Dec 2019 : 00:15:12
As Moander was listed as a potential Warlock Patron for 5e DnD and deities are notoriously difficult to kill permanently, it's possible that at the very least a "remnant" of Moander remains active.
Moander's true nature seemed to be like a corrupting plague so it wouldn't be surprising if he left behind one or more "taints" in the mortal realms and beyond.
His cultists would certainly be an interesting foe to battle, if they are plotting to revive Moander as a fully-fledged deity.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Dec 2019 : 23:26:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Lolth had been corrupted by Moander, it still doesn't make sense that auto-cannibalism made her stronger.
If the split had been to purge herself of tainted elements, then there would be less, not more, at the end.
And as I recall, the description of what happened explicitly had all of the mini-Lolths being eaten -- so if she split to contain the corruption, she re-ingested it!
Think about that for a second... Moander infected Tyche... and we ended up with more beings in the end.
I don't necessarily believe that she got stronger as a result of that. One of the fallouts of it may be that Lolth literally went multiple personality disorder, and maybe that's why she was suddenly ineffective. She may have tried to portray herself as stronger, but maybe she wasn't. Maybe that's why she was desperate enough to start trying to feed on Kiaransalee and her children.
On the many spiders killing each other and eating each other... maybe that WAS the representation of Moander. I'll admit, its not a perfect explanation, but at least its a start of one, because what we have currently absolutely makes not a bit of sense. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Dec 2019 : 05:14:37
Even if Lolth had been corrupted by Moander, it still doesn't make sense that auto-cannibalism made her stronger.
If the split had been to purge herself of tainted elements, then there would be less, not more, at the end.
And as I recall, the description of what happened explicitly had all of the mini-Lolths being eaten -- so if she split to contain the corruption, she re-ingested it! |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Dec 2019 : 22:40:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Depends, later she separated herself out into multiple different entities. Perhaps we could finally say we have an explanation for the whole drow storyline that was put forth? Maybe she took on Moander and he split her up, kind of like he did with Tymora/Beshaba from Tyche?
Moander didn't split Tyche. The bolt of silver fire that Selūne threw at the corrupted Tyche is what caused the split.
Good point... so perhaps a better way to phrase it would be "Lolth took in Moander, it started corrupting/devouring her, and she split herself to purge herself". We even had all those little "chapter preludes" that discussed Lolth's spiders eating each other, and stuff. The gist being the same... Moander taken in... in order to survive split. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Dec 2019 : 03:34:46
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Depends, later she separated herself out into multiple different entities. Perhaps we could finally say we have an explanation for the whole drow storyline that was put forth? Maybe she took on Moander and he split her up, kind of like he did with Tymora/Beshaba from Tyche?
Moander didn't split Tyche. The bolt of silver fire that Selūne threw at the corrupted Tyche is what caused the split. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Dec 2019 : 00:26:19
I honestly see many of the "gods" as possibilities of being "something else" with the "god tag" thrown in. Talos fits one such mold in my book wherein he'd make a good primordial. Nobanion fits the mold of a primal spirit/great spirit, as does a being like Lurue. Since they started coming out with these other concepts, a lot of beings that were presented as beings who used to walk around the realms make sense to me as "something else" that somehow gained the ability to grant divine power.
Other gods like Mielikki, Eldath, and the Untheric/Mulhorandi gods that were in the realms physically prior to the ToT
. they all sound to me like entities that all possibly used the same method to enter the realms while the Imaskari godswall was up (i.e. they created some kind of manifestation of their power and sent it physically into the world). Then when the ToT was over, they suddenly had outer planar domains AND the godswall was gone. Others like Torm, Gwaeron Windstrom, possibly Siamorphe, etc.. who have a backstory of being raised up in the realms as a deity fit the mold of Ao created gods who would be loyal to Ao.
In fact, perhaps Ao allowed the creation of the godswall to prevent gods coming in who COULD challenge his power while he built up his own group of loyal "godlings". Thus, he could foster some lesser deities locally and possibly slowly allow them to gain access to an outer plane if they proved themselves worthy (because the godswall kept multispheric entities from coming in, but not necessarily stopping internally created gods venturing out to create a domain).
Hell, the dead three may have been something similar to the Mulan gods... a manifestation who was sent here and then sought to build their power (especially if Kiputytto was one of their comrades as some have suspected... and I wouldn't be surprised if Loviatar wasn't also going around with them). Myrkul being something like a Crown Prince of Murghom may just mean he was another stray Mulan manifestation. If we were to look at it through that lens, then perhaps these manifestations were "left behind" when they ascended to get an outer plane. This explanation could help explain away a LOT of returning gods actually.... Deneir, Azuth, Savras, Leira, Mask, Lathander, etc... from the sundering.... as in their "manifestations" which they'd left behind when they "ascended" were somehow reawakened by the spellplague or the sundering (which if the spellplague, perhaps they were in Abeir).
All that to basically say I bet a lot of gods are "something else and a god". |
| Irennan |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 23:28:15
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I just don't see Moander returning at all.
Page 120 of Faiths and Avatars says:
quote:
With the Darkbringer's death, Lolth has taken Moander's name as an alias of her own. The Spider Queen realized in the aftermath of the Fall of the Gods that, like other gods of the Realms, she, too, was vulnerable to the vagaries of the strength and number of her worshipers. Lolth seeks to add surface-dwelling humans, elves, and half-elves to the ranks of her faithful through her guise as the Darkbringer.
Once she has her claws into something, it isn't likely she would give it up easily.
Lolth has lost so many of the things she had her claws on, and ended up collecting massive defeats due to quite stupid plans recently. It's come to the point that she's been re-downgraded to lesser power in 5e, at the same level as EIlistraee and Vhaeraun are now.
Moander is back, not as a god, though. WotC listed him as a Great Old One, which is pretty nebulous, but hey... that's WotC's new thing. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 23:21:22
Yeah, I could see her "withdrawal" as actually a means to shed herself of the rot she ingested... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 22:49:35
Depends, later she separated herself out into multiple different entities. Perhaps we could finally say we have an explanation for the whole drow storyline that was put forth? Maybe she took on Moander and he split her up, kind of like he did with Tymora/Beshaba from Tyche? |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 22:38:00
I just don't see Moander returning at all.
Page 120 of Faiths and Avatars says:
quote:
With the Darkbringer's death, Lolth has taken Moander's name as an alias of her own. The Spider Queen realized in the aftermath of the Fall of the Gods that, like other gods of the Realms, she, too, was vulnerable to the vagaries of the strength and number of her worshipers. Lolth seeks to add surface-dwelling humans, elves, and half-elves to the ranks of her faithful through her guise as the Darkbringer.
Once she has her claws into something, it isn't likely she would give it up easily. |
| Regar Khorvaen |
Posted - 12 Dec 2019 : 22:09:32
I think Moander has learned something, even if none of the other gods have... Having just one home, no matter how unassailable it seems, is just not smart. Particularly if you're subject to Ao's whims, and particularly since pretty much everyone hates Moander... he doesn't have any allies, which means every other god is an enemy, and the potential for dozens of Elminsters running around means a god in his position would have a short lifespan.
So I think Moander will send spores to every world and plane it can reach, like a mold, and grow its power in all of these places simultaneously, so that even if it suffers setbacks again in the future, it will never again face extinction... even if it's eliminated in one world, it will be a simple matter to send a spore back.
This should be different than the powers that have their essences in an Outer Plane, and periodically send avatars to various worlds to punish those who work against them or advertise themselves to prospective worshipers... Moander is a different sort of being. He should be native to nowhere, and corrupting everywhere.
[/quote]
I think thats a real good idea for a Planescape-like campaign, traveling from world to world to destroy Moander seeds. |
| Nilus Reynard |
Posted - 14 Oct 2019 : 09:31:19
Moander, for all of his (it's) repugnant qualities was, in my opinion, a perfect picture of an unrepentant evil deity. Even more so than Cyric.
His avatar, The Abomination, was both impressive & terrifying. I do believe that he is a deity that deserves to make a comeback, in some form or another. |
| BadLuckBugbear |
Posted - 13 Oct 2019 : 14:34:17
My take (if I don't just ignore all the metaplot) is that Finder is an unwitting vessel of Moander, and that the bard-god slowly rots from within, finally splitting open to reveal Moander reborn.
The new Moander cult may retain some trappings of the old Finder cult. It may seek to convert bards and artists, so that they can produce works which promote Moander's themes of decay and rot, both physical and spiritual.
|
| shades of eternity |
Posted - 13 Oct 2019 : 14:00:59
In Saurials of the Lost Vale, I gave Moander a legacy on the Saurial's homeworld as well as a long-running influence and hit connection to the dark 3 gods who act in their dead friend's name.
|
| Nilus Reynard |
Posted - 13 Oct 2019 : 07:02:08
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
For myself I always pictured Finder rotting away from the inside. The hubris that he suffered from in the past returning to slowly turn him back into Moander (I also plan to tie it to the Harpers and the schism).
That's a good idea!
I like Finder as a demi-power, but his portfolio should have just been things to do with bards & creation, leave Moander's less admirable traits out of it. But I can definitely see his arrogance and self-importance turning him into something more like Moander, if he doesn't get ahold/ get over himself. |
| OliverWyvernspur |
Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 21:20:03
All elves despise Moander, even Drow and The Dark Seldarine. |
| OliverWyvernspur |
Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 18:44:41
Moander vampirized a bunch of creatures and gods during The Second Godswar, and gorged on Finder, making him at the same status as Ao, Savras, Deep Duerra's father,
and Anhur, which is indeed is old position, but none of it was his original stuff, only the status. I'm speaking Faerunian pantheon here, Moander is an amulgamation of many pantheons, all he does is shrink or grow. |
| OliverWyvernspur |
Posted - 28 Nov 2018 : 16:33:33
The deal with Moander was a forced thing. Ao decided he was a threat to all of Realmspace a bunch of other Gods joined in but mostly I took most of the damage effects brunt and everything. It had to be me because I may
have been the only Supreme Greater Power(God) at the time. Moander's true form is trapped in Shatterstone by Ao, it's power will always be halfed.
|
| Regcod |
Posted - 08 Oct 2014 : 13:55:12
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
There's not a lot of Candlekeep scrolls dedicated to the discussion of the deceased (albeit, with a hitch) god, Moander.
While Moander the Darkbringer was decisively destroyed and replaced by Finder Wyvernspur during the ToT, a few official canon sources have indicated that the Jawed God is still hanging on by a thread in a severely reduced form while he floats adrift on the Astral Plane. References include:
1. Volo's Guide to the Dalelands [2E] - At least a portion of Moander's power and sentience is still imprisoned in Darkwatch.
2. Powers of Faerun [3E - P. 117] - There is a flickering sentience of the 'dead' god" which has awakened. To be fully restored requires this spark to be fed more power (the likes of another avatar or a couple Chosen, etc).
3. Lost Empires of Faerun [3E P. 9] - The Servant of the Fallen feat mentions Moander as a possible patron deity. Okay, this may be a stretch, but it kinda implies that there's a glimmer of sentience left in the Darkbringer.
... and as of 3E, Lolth was reported to still be granting spells to the few remaining members of the Rotting God's clergy.
*******************
So my question to all of you is ... how would you see Moander returning back to the generous "deity recall" of 5E Forgotten Realms?
I realize it is perhaps odd for a woman like me to be intrigued with such an icky god. But the botanist and horticulturist in me finds the inevitableness of organic rotting and decay in the Cycle of Life ... to require a god properly befitting of that title. And Finder just doesn't do it for me (thematically). So yeah, I want the Big Lug back.
On my point of view, I'm more interested to keep him as a threat can could be resurrected by some fanatic found here and there sometimes. This is I play the Moander threat on my campaign as GM.
I don't know if finding him back again alive in the pantheon could be so beneficial |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Oct 2014 : 02:17:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Hmm, but I guess Wooly that you intended Moathan to be god of Life, Death and Rebirth, not connected to the sun?
Pretty much the entire natural cycle of life -- birth, growth, death and rebirth. And not death as the cessation of life, but as a step along the natural cycle, leading to new life.
Much as Selune split Tyche, perhaps Amaunator split Moathan.... and ended up absorbing a portion of him in the aftermath. Thus, the rebirth aspect.
Hmmmm, actually if there was some kind of conflict between Amaunator and Moathan.... then the sun "decayed out" and was reborn as a new sun... there could be something here. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 12:22:42
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Hmm, but I guess Wooly that you intended Moathan to be god of Life, Death and Rebirth, not connected to the sun?
Pretty much the entire natural cycle of life -- birth, growth, death and rebirth. And not death as the cessation of life, but as a step along the natural cycle, leading to new life. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 10:55:00
Hmm, but I guess Wooly that you intended Moathan to be god of Life, Death and Rebirth, not connected to the sun?
Also, Shar seems to have been neutral originaly, only has become evil, after her fatal argument with Selune. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Sep 2014 : 04:50:07
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Functioning under the (absolutely unofficial) assumption that Moander was once an unmalignant nature god sort and asking *when* his corruption occured doesnt seem meaningful to me.
There is an assumption in D&D lore that some Great Gu Ubergod created the cosmos and the world and (at least the first of) all the powers in his pantheon. And that they were initially all good and played nice and generally shared their candy and lived happily ever after until some terrible seed of dark nastiness sprouted in one, then others, from the forevermore divided once uniformly-Good pantheon.
Admittedly, D&D lore has thus far followed this formula. As did some versions of ancient mythology in our own world. Gutless, methinks. Strongly maligned deities (or characters of any sort) shouldnt mince words with meekness and a false veneer of pleasantries - they oughtta be bad from the moment of their inception, taking what they want at the cost of others with an arrogant mwoohaha without any pretense whatsoever. None of this Good-fallen-into-Evil trope, boring cliche which leads to the even more unimaginative Redemption cliche. Born Evil, Be Evil, Stay Evil, Die Evil - why not?
Moander could just as easily have been formed in a malformed way, perhaps a design flaw, perhaps just built wrong. He might have been an unpleasant force of nature right from the beginning, freshly made to start rotting.
Oh, I've no problem with deities being evil from the get-go. Shar, Bhaal, Myrkul, Malar, Bane, that bunch -- yeah, I'm doubting any of them ever went thru a kittens and My Little Pony phase. And that's fine.
I don't think it as likely, though, that rot and decay would naturally spring up as portfolios among a pantheon. Rot and decay are, in a sense, dark sides of nature, and nature is generally presented as being neutral -- sometimes soft and/or beautiful, sometimes merciless and deadly.
On top of that, we already have, in Realmslore, an example of a deity being corrupted.
So for me, the fact that divine corruption has happened before and the fact that rot and decay are unlikely portfolios, these add up to some interesting possibilities.
Now, I will point out that this isn't like my Xvim/Bane theory -- there is really nothing supporting the idea that Moander was at one time neutral, and there is similarly nothing indicating he was part of another deity. I just found a couple of possibilities that I like better than what we have. In particular, I like the Moander/Lathander origin idea a lot better than the tripartite sun deity idea. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Sep 2014 : 00:13:41
Functioning under the (absolutely unofficial) assumption that Moander was once an unmalignant nature god sort and asking *when* his corruption occured doesnt seem meaningful to me.
There is an assumption in D&D lore that some Great Gu Ubergod created the cosmos and the world and (at least the first of) all the powers in his pantheon. And that they were initially all good and played nice and generally shared their candy and lived happily ever after until some terrible seed of dark nastiness sprouted in one, then others, from the forevermore divided once uniformly-Good pantheon.
Admittedly, D&D lore has thus far followed this formula. As did some versions of ancient mythology in our own world. Gutless, methinks. Strongly maligned deities (or characters of any sort) shouldnt mince words with meekness and a false veneer of pleasantries - they oughtta be bad from the moment of their inception, taking what they want at the cost of others with an arrogant mwoohaha without any pretense whatsoever. None of this Good-fallen-into-Evil trope, boring cliche which leads to the even more unimaginative Redemption cliche. Born Evil, Be Evil, Stay Evil, Die Evil - why not?
Moander could just as easily have been formed in a malformed way, perhaps a design flaw, perhaps just built wrong. He might have been an unpleasant force of nature right from the beginning, freshly made to start rotting. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Sep 2014 : 04:55:30
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know, Baltas just gave me another thought...
I've never liked the idea of the Lathander-Amaunator-Myrkul cycle... What if, instead of those three being one continuously changing deity, they were all, originally, separate?
Here's the idea: At one point, there was just Amaunator, and some earlier, now-forgotten nature deity, whom I will dub Moathan.
Now, we know what happened when Moander corrupted Tyche -- Selūne zapped her, and out popped Tymora and Beshaba.
What if this wasn't the first time one deity had split into two?
What if Moathan covered the entire cycle of life, from rebirth to decay and back? And then somehow Moathan got corrupted, and split into two aspects -- Lathander (rebirth) and Moander (decay)?
The young Lathander could have been absorbed by Amaunator, who at that time covered all of the solar aspects. Absorbing all of that "good" from Lathander was kind of overwhelming, causing the dusk aspect of Amaunator to be lost -- eventually getting picked up by Myrkul.
And Lathander wasn't fully subsumed, so sometimes he's the prominent one, and other times Amaunator is.
Hmm, now I've got two theories for Moander's creation that I really like!
Edit: Cast banish typo. 
Hmmmm, could this somehow be tied into the death of the original sun by the Night Serpent? Would we want to? Just throwing it out as a possibility.
I've heard of that one, but I'm not familiar enough with it to try to make the connection... But I think the idea stands well enough without tying it to the original sun; throwing that one in there could make it overly complicated. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Sep 2014 : 17:54:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know, Baltas just gave me another thought...
I've never liked the idea of the Lathander-Amaunator-Myrkul cycle... What if, instead of those three being one continuously changing deity, they were all, originally, separate?
Here's the idea: At one point, there was just Amaunator, and some earlier, now-forgotten nature deity, whom I will dub Moathan.
Now, we know what happened when Moander corrupted Tyche -- Selūne zapped her, and out popped Tymora and Beshaba.
What if this wasn't the first time one deity had split into two?
What if Moathan covered the entire cycle of life, from rebirth to decay and back? And then somehow Moathan got corrupted, and split into two aspects -- Lathander (rebirth) and Moander (decay)?
The young Lathander could have been absorbed by Amaunator, who at that time covered all of the solar aspects. Absorbing all of that "good" from Lathander was kind of overwhelming, causing the dusk aspect of Amaunator to be lost -- eventually getting picked up by Myrkul.
And Lathander wasn't fully subsumed, so sometimes he's the prominent one, and other times Amaunator is.
Hmm, now I've got two theories for Moander's creation that I really like!
Edit: Cast banish typo.
Hmmmm, could this somehow be tied into the death of the original sun by the Night Serpent? Would we want to? Just throwing it out as a possibility. |
| Delwa |
Posted - 27 Sep 2014 : 17:02:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know, Baltas just gave me another thought...
I've never liked the idea of the Lathander-Amaunator-Myrkul cycle... What if, instead of those three being one continuously changing deity, they were all, originally, separate?
Here's the idea: At one point, there was just Amaunator, and some earlier, now-forgotten nature deity, whom I will dub Moathan.
Now, we know what happened when Moander corrupted Tyche -- Selūne zapped her, and out popped Tymora and Beshaba.
What if this wasn't the first time one deity had split into so?
What if Moathan covered the entire cycle of life, from rebirth to decay and back? And then somehow Moathan got corrupted, and split into two aspects -- Lathander (rebirth) and Moander (decay)?
The young Lathander could have been absorbed by Amaunator, who at that time covered all of the solar aspects. Absorbing all of that "good" from Lathander was kind of overwhelming, causing the dusk aspect of Amaunator to be lost -- eventually getting picked up by Myrkul.
And Lathander wasn't fully subsumed, so sometimes he's the prominent one, and other times Amaunator is.
Hmm, now I've got two theories for Moander's creation that I really like!
Now this idea I like. Combine that with the Great Cartographers' point about, "the PC's don't know everything," and I'll have my players swimming in alleged heresy for the rest of my life! If I leave ambiguous notes behind, they really will hate me!. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Sep 2014 : 16:05:00
You know, Baltas just gave me another thought...
I've never liked the idea of the Lathander-Amaunator-Myrkul cycle... What if, instead of those three being one continuously changing deity, they were all, originally, separate?
Here's the idea: At one point, there was just Amaunator, and some earlier, now-forgotten nature deity, whom I will dub Moathan.
Now, we know what happened when Moander corrupted Tyche -- Selūne zapped her, and out popped Tymora and Beshaba.
What if this wasn't the first time one deity had split into two?
What if Moathan covered the entire cycle of life, from rebirth to decay and back? And then somehow Moathan got corrupted, and split into two aspects -- Lathander (rebirth) and Moander (decay)?
The young Lathander could have been absorbed by Amaunator, who at that time covered all of the solar aspects. Absorbing all of that "good" from Lathander was kind of overwhelming, causing the dusk aspect of Amaunator to be lost -- eventually getting picked up by Myrkul.
And Lathander wasn't fully subsumed, so sometimes he's the prominent one, and other times Amaunator is.
Hmm, now I've got two theories for Moander's creation that I really like!
Edit: Cast banish typo. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Sep 2014 : 15:57:07
The only thing I can say about any of this and 5e is 'additive design'. We have been missing that for far too long.
What 1e/2e did was make the lore hazy, which lead to much speculation... and also gave DMs much leeway in how to spin things in their own campaigns. Towards the end of 2e and all throughout 3e they went with a 'set in stone' approach to everything, which is why we wound up with (IMO) a large amount of fans 'disgruntled', because they felt the canon (read: novel-plots pushing the setting forward) was diverging too far from their home games.
Whats this got to do with Moander and other 'lost gods'? EVERYTHING. All we need to know is that their are some folks out there (in FR) that are still worshiping all these beings. PCs don't need to know 'the truth of things', because even in the RW we don't know the truth of such things (ie, proof of 'God'). They worship them, and some of them might even be getting spells from them... but that doesn't mean the thing answering their prayers is anything close to what they think they are praying to.
5e is about 'old school' gaming, and what that means is, Players DON'T know everything... as it should be. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 17 Sep 2014 : 07:32:09
Very interesting comparison with the Wyrm Wooly! But in Werewolf: The Apocalypse, there is already a visible element of Lovecraft-like Misotheism, with the most powerful 'deities'(Triat and Gaia), beign either alien, cruell and/or to ruthless. Even Gaia, is pretty flawed, as her and Changing Breeds actions, like the culing, most probably caused humanity to turn away from nature in the first place, or at least had big part in it.
And Lovecraftian/Far Realm being can be, oddly enough, closely connected to nature, with the prime example being Shub-Niggurath.
[Edit]
Here's my (another) possiible origin for Moander, inspired mainly by Wooly, and his comparisons to Wyrm, but also a bit by dazzlerdal's and Ayrik's musings.
Moander was created originaly as a symbiotic being to Chauntea, with him/her handling the aspects of decay, and rebirth. He/She also cleared pollution and corruption that appeared on Toril, by demanifacturing it into components compatible with nature.
But when the struggle between Shar and Selune started, the destruction, as well as the actions of Shadevari polluted Toril horribly, both phisicaly and spiritualy. Moander desided to absorb all of the pollution into himself/herself, it's not known if s/he done to protect Chautea, or because Moander simply thought it as a ultimate extension of his/hers role and responcibilities. That action, warped him/her into the monstrous being of corruption we know. S/He latter was on Shar's side, but ultimately only cared for corrupting and decaying Toril's Crystal Sphere, and all other planes. If s/he does it as warped view of it's responsibilities, or if Moander just became force of pure evil, is also unknown.
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