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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 00:42:10
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There's not a lot of Candlekeep scrolls dedicated to the discussion of the deceased (albeit, with a hitch) god, Moander.
While Moander the Darkbringer was decisively destroyed and replaced by Finder Wyvernspur during the ToT, a few official canon sources have indicated that the Jawed God is still hanging on by a thread in a severely reduced form while he floats adrift on the Astral Plane. References include:
1. Volo's Guide to the Dalelands [2E] - At least a portion of Moander's power and sentience is still imprisoned in Darkwatch.
2. Powers of Faerun [3E - P. 117] - There is a flickering sentience of the 'dead' god" which has awakened. To be fully restored requires this spark to be fed more power (the likes of another avatar or a couple Chosen, etc).
3. Lost Empires of Faerun [3E P. 9] - The Servant of the Fallen feat mentions Moander as a possible patron deity. Okay, this may be a stretch, but it kinda implies that there's a glimmer of sentience left in the Darkbringer.
... and as of 3E, Lolth was reported to still be granting spells to the few remaining members of the Rotting God's clergy.
*******************
So my question to all of you is ... how would you see Moander returning back to the generous "deity recall" of 5E Forgotten Realms?
I realize it is perhaps odd for a woman like me to be intrigued with such an icky god. But the botanist and horticulturist in me finds the inevitableness of organic rotting and decay in the Cycle of Life ... to require a god properly befitting of that title. And Finder just doesn't do it for me (thematically). So yeah, I want the Big Lug back. 
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Edited by - Snow on 14 Sep 2014 00:42:59
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 01:35:26
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I agree that Finder doesn't work for the role he was given in 3e.
I haven't read the Sundering series yet, but from what I understand there's a bunch of Chosens running around. And presumably a bunch of godlings trying to return or gain power or whatever. A few of the inconspicuous ones might get lost in Cormanthor and disappear, fueling Moander's rebirth without anyone realizing it until later. If Kiaransalee or Savras don't come back, this could be why.
If it's just a matter of sucking the life out of some magically significant source (Chosen, avatar, maybe an artifact, I dunno)... that wouldn't be hard to accomplish, particularly if it still has devoted cultists.
To tack another question on: what will Moander do once it regains its god-level power? Its domain in the plains has been "desecrated" by Finder. Undoubtedly it will want to destroy Finder and reclaim its home, but I think homelessness has been an eye-opening experience for Moander. I'm guessing it won't want to hoard its power in Faerun... too much danger of being attacked again, especially if some of the Chosen remain. However, it wouldn't want to invest itself fully in a new planar home, either.
I think Moander has learned something, even if none of the other gods have... Having just one home, no matter how unassailable it seems, is just not smart. Particularly if you're subject to Ao's whims, and particularly since pretty much everyone hates Moander... he doesn't have any allies, which means every other god is an enemy, and the potential for dozens of Elminsters running around means a god in his position would have a short lifespan.
So I think Moander will send spores to every world and plane it can reach, like a mold, and grow its power in all of these places simultaneously, so that even if it suffers setbacks again in the future, it will never again face extinction... even if it's eliminated in one world, it will be a simple matter to send a spore back.
This should be different than the powers that have their essences in an Outer Plane, and periodically send avatars to various worlds to punish those who work against them or advertise themselves to prospective worshipers... Moander is a different sort of being. He should be native to nowhere, and corrupting everywhere.
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 09:56:42
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Well, as xaeyruudh mentioned, and was written in the Power of Faerun, Moander must really lure a entity with divine power to Darkwatch, in order to absorb it. The Power of Faerun specificaly described Moander needs to eat one avatar, or two chosen, in order to regain demigod status.
Actualy, contary to what some write, Moander had at least one ally - Ghaunadaur.
Beshaba also was largely created from Moander corrupting Tyche, so I think she may play a role in Moander's rebirth, or the Darkbringer will try to control somehow Lady Doom. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 14:14:45
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| Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Moander back. The role Talona took on with the Talontar Blightlords would have so fit Moander more. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 14:41:18
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| Moander is someone I'd rather see stay dead. I think there is more role-playing potential in the threat of his return than there is in just popping him back into godhood, which seems to be what they're doing with the other slain deities. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 15:26:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Moander is someone I'd rather see stay dead. I think there is more role-playing potential in the threat of his return than there is in just popping him back into godhood, which seems to be what they're doing with the other slain deities.
I'd almost like to have my cake and eat it too, here. I'd like to see him stay dead. But I also would like to see him as a deity. Maybe make him a very small deity, and thus his M.O. would be to corrupt people/places and draw individuals to those people/places to be part of a ritual or act that would give him enough power to rise in the ranks of godhood to become a worse threat with other methods and options available to him that he couldn't fully act on before. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 17:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well, as xaeyruudh mentioned, and was written in the Power of Faerun, Moander must really lure a entity with divine power to Darkwatch, in order to absorb it. The Power of Faerun specificaly described Moander needs to eat one avatar, or two chosen, in order to regain demigod status.
Actualy, contary to what some write, Moander had at least one ally - Ghaunadaur.
Beshaba also was largely created from Moander corrupting Tyche, so I think she may play a role in Moander's rebirth, or the Darkbringer will try to control somehow Lady Doom.
I'd be curious as to the canon source of the Moander~Ghaunadur alliance. I've read were Ghaunadur actually claims to have no allies at all.
That said, I like the alliance idea - a lot. Although I don't see it being a friendly alliance. I see it being more of a symbiotic relationship on a completely alien level of understanding that us mere mortal would have trouble being able to articulate.
It kinda makes me wish for a 3rd related god to merge into this alliance for the ultimate in a Slime/Ooze/Decay/Corruption Triumvirate. Although the only possible god I could see wanting to share such a mission would possibly be Laogzed, god of the trogs. Who's aesthetic, projections, schticks and domains/portfolios all seem to have a gluttony, ooze/slime, wanton descruction angle going on besides that of tending to the advancement of the Troglodyte race. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 18:10:17
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If Moander is allied with Ghaunadaur it's just because they're not direct competitors, and in fact might arise from the same source. I could see Moander as a piece of the much greater "old dark power" for which Ghaunadaur is supposed to be the Realms alias.
I totally agree with Wooly on Moander having more potential as a threat than he does if you write him back into the pantheon in a big way. I've made the same argument about Shade and the resurrection of Myth Drannor.
But I also think it's possible to have your cake and eat it too. Nothing will be known by common folks or sages, about what Moander is up to. It's part of its nature to lie under the surface, corrupting from within, apparently dormant but quietly spreading. Its actions in moments of desperation don't always reflect that nature, but when it's weakened and trying to recover its power it's going to be as sneaky as possible. So there's no "whoa, Moander is a god again" moment. Just color it into your campaign with bits of fungus on the trees, a rotting wooden palisade around an abandoned keep, small proliferations of toadstools in the forest, etc. Nothing huge or eye-grabbing. But unbeknownst to the PCs, maybe they're being shadowed by its spies, or maybe one of their hirelings or even one of the PCs is an unwitting agent... maybe Moander heard reports of the PCs' derring-do and suspects them of being or becoming Chosen, and it wants to know more, and wants its agents in place to bring the party to it if needed. Or maybe it realizes that they're not Chosen but it wants to use them to bring an actual Chosen to him. *shrug*
I just think you can set Moander actively on the path to becoming a major power again, and use him, without anyone (especially the other powers) knowing what's going on, and it will look the same to everyone else as if it's just languishing in a pit somewhere dreaming of godhood but doing nothing to retake it. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 19:40:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Moander is someone I'd rather see stay dead. I think there is more role-playing potential in the threat of his return than there is in just popping him back into godhood, which seems to be what they're doing with the other slain deities.
I'd almost like to have my cake and eat it too, here. I'd like to see him stay dead. But I also would like to see him as a deity. Maybe make him a very small deity, and thus his M.O. would be to corrupt people/places and draw individuals to those people/places to be part of a ritual or act that would give him enough power to rise in the ranks of godhood to become a worse threat with other methods and options available to him that he couldn't fully act on before.
That's exactly how I feel. In fact, in terms of being a deity... I'd prefer he be so weak in planar power that he is a Toril-bound deity (as in he has a physical form / avatar / manifestation and not an outer planar presence). Now, where he is staying can be well hidden. I actually wouldn't mind if there were several of the returned deities who were of this status level... many possibly hiding in plain sight. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 19:49:12
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
For myself I always pictured Finder rotting away from the inside. The hubris that he suffered from in the past returning to slowly turn him back into Moander (I also plan to tie it to the Harpers and the schism).
I like this idea for Finder. I don't think hubris (which I'll define as similar to pride but an order of magnitude bigger) is something you get over/past. I think it's a defining character flaw, and it's like a hunger that's never sated. He can hide it, and he can even vow to change his ways, and he can even want to keep that promise, but you don't just turn off something that has devoured your conscience and shaped your view of the universe and your place in it. Just my 2 cents, but I'm definitely on board with a dark seed of Moander growing within Finder. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 19:49:38
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well this is completely non canon, but I view moander as a primeval power of rot and corruption.
What I mean to say is that the god we know as Moander was just the latest incarnation of many super powered beings of rot, and decay.
The Moander that caused the death of the creator races need not have been the same Moander that battled Alias and Garnet.
Such a juggernaut of one of the basic constants of the universe is birthed by cataclysmic events that cause the death of many (dead things rot), then in times of peace and prosperity it died out only to be reborn again at the next event.
Are they the same creature reborn each time, perhaps, perhaps not. You could imagine that within every micro-organism is a tiny little mote of Moander, when one of those organisms grows to monstrous size, Moander has returned - but is always slightly different.
Of course that's just my take on it.
The Moander unleashed upon Tsornyl may not be the same as the Moander that died since it was written that it was a piece of Moander separated and imprisoned beneath Darkwatch (and therefore no longer part of the whole). That was several thousand years ago, I would imagine even deities change in a few thousand years.
For myself I always pictured Finder rotting away from the inside. The hubris that he suffered from in the past returning to slowly turn him back into Moander (I also plan to tie it to the Harpers and the schism).
I like this idea of Moander being like a conglomeration deity, and possibly he survives by spinning off/reproducing small portions of himself, such that if he's killed those portions may grow to recreate the original. Alternatively, he may "infect" willing mortal bodies, rotting them from within, so that they may serve as future incarnations. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 21:19:24
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
For myself I always pictured Finder rotting away from the inside. The hubris that he suffered from in the past returning to slowly turn him back into Moander (I also plan to tie it to the Harpers and the schism).
I like this idea for Finder. I don't think hubris (which I'll define as similar to pride but an order of magnitude bigger) is something you get over/past. I think it's a defining character flaw, and it's like a hunger that's never sated. He can hide it, and he can even vow to change his ways, and he can even want to keep that promise, but you don't just turn off something that has devoured your conscience and shaped your view of the universe and your place in it. Just my 2 cents, but I'm definitely on board with a dark seed of Moander growing within Finder.
Agreed. This is a terrific idea for the ongoing storyline of Finder. He's arguably one of the least interesting deities out there and his portfolios are an awkward mess of a mix. So seeing him evolve (heh, devolve) this way gives him a more compelling angle for campaign integration. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 21:54:57
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The information that Ghaundaur and Moander being alies, is from Demihuman Deities, section about Drow deities.
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
I'd be curious as to the canon source of the Moander~Ghaunadur alliance. I've read were Ghaunadur actually claims to have no allies at all.
That said, I like the alliance idea - a lot. Although I don't see it being a friendly alliance. I see it being more of a symbiotic relationship on a completely alien level of understanding that us mere mortal would have trouble being able to articulate.
It kinda makes me wish for a 3rd related god to merge into this alliance for the ultimate in a Slime/Ooze/Decay/Corruption Triumvirate. Although the only possible god I could see wanting to share such a mission would possibly be Laogzed, god of the trogs. Who's aesthetic, projections, schticks and domains/portfolios all seem to have a gluttony, ooze/slime, wanton descruction angle going on besides that of tending to the advancement of the Troglodyte race.
Hmmm, about that trio idea, I have in my homebrew that the 3 Lost Gods from the Monster Mythology(The Dark God(Tharizdun), Juiblex(The Faceless Lord), and The Elder Elemental God)(different from the 7 Faerunian ones), manifest, and merge differently, depending on the world were talking about. On Oerth The Dark God absorbed the Elder Elemental God, becoming Tharizdun, while on Toril The Elder Elemental God Absorbed Juiblex, becoming Ghaunadaur. The Dark God on Toril in turn became Moander the Darkbringer.
I based it on few facts:
- I only saw Moander and Tharizdun to have the ability to corrupt a deity easily, compare the dark gem corrupting Aurilandür into the Queen of Air and Darkness, with the flower form of Moander corrupting Tyche, ultimately resulting in her her split into Tymora, and Beshaba. Even Shar had to corrupt Sharess slowly.
- The Darkbringer, and Dark God titles are very similar.
- While Shar, has the portfolio of entropy in the Realms, The Rotting Death, and Corruption portfolios, are more similar to the type of entropy Tharizdun represents, at least to me. And the general feel of Moander and Tharizdun are much more similar.
- both are ancient enemies of civilisation.
- both have the portfolio of Decay.
- Auril(now identical with The Queen of Air and Darkness) has Moander among her foes, and the Darkbringer is the only evil deity among her enemies. This suggest some story between them. My theory is that Auril isn't exacly happy about her corruption, and the fact Moander wanted to control her. |
Edited by - Baltas on 14 Sep 2014 23:33:52 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 00:41:18
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This is also entirely non-canon, but I view Moander as a once-healthy god who has been corrupted and mutated into a thing of half-insane rot and living decay by something else even greater and far more sinister than any mere deity or portfolio of some single little world like Toril. I like to think Moander was originally some sort of neutral benign nature god (of druids) whose portfolio governed growing, living things in the natural world.
Gods and Powers can be slain. So it seems unwise to assume these beings are immune to superdivine sicknesses, corruptions, and afflictions not unlike those they are able to inflict upon lowly mortals. Even gods must be cautious of utterly incomprehensible, alien aberrations and abominations from the Far Realms and beyond, none (that we know of from lore) have ever attempted to expand their influence outside of what they (and we) can readily understand. |
[/Ayrik] |
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nblanton
Seeker
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 05:23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Snow
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well, as xaeyruudh mentioned, and was written in the Power of Faerun, Moander must really lure a entity with divine power to Darkwatch, in order to absorb it. The Power of Faerun specificaly described Moander needs to eat one avatar, or two chosen, in order to regain demigod status.
Actualy, contary to what some write, Moander had at least one ally - Ghaunadaur.
Beshaba also was largely created from Moander corrupting Tyche, so I think she may play a role in Moander's rebirth, or the Darkbringer will try to control somehow Lady Doom.
I'd be curious as to the canon source of the Moander~Ghaunadur alliance. I've read were Ghaunadur actually claims to have no allies at all.
That said, I like the alliance idea - a lot. Although I don't see it being a friendly alliance. I see it being more of a symbiotic relationship on a completely alien level of understanding that us mere mortal would have trouble being able to articulate.
It kinda makes me wish for a 3rd related god to merge into this alliance for the ultimate in a Slime/Ooze/Decay/Corruption Triumvirate. Although the only possible god I could see wanting to share such a mission would possibly be Laogzed, god of the trogs. Who's aesthetic, projections, schticks and domains/portfolios all seem to have a gluttony, ooze/slime, wanton descruction angle going on besides that of tending to the advancement of the Troglodyte race.
There isn't such a deity currently, but the third could be a dwarven or gnomish god of rust and corrosion. I could see that being a counter to several of the craft and forge deities. |
It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game.
Afterword, DMG pg 230. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 12:15:05
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| I dont think I would like to see Moander return. Too many dead deities have returned as it is. |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 18:22:41
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| As a god of rotting and decay, it would be perfectly natural for Moander to be locked in an eternal cycle of dying only to arise again from his own corpse. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 18:38:18
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quote:
Originally posted by see
As a god of rotting and decay, it would be perfectly natural for Moander to be locked in an eternal cycle of dying only to arise again from his own corpse.
Actually, it would be more natural for him to die and for something else to arise from his corpse -- under natural circumstances, dead things don't get back up and back in motion after a while. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 19:32:49
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quote:
Originally posted by nblanton
There isn't such a deity currently, but the third could be a dwarven or gnomish god of rust and corrosion. I could see that being a counter to several of the craft and forge deities.
Another related deity is the Orcish god of death & disease - Yurtrus. With associated titles like The Lord of Maggots and The Rotting One, you can see why. Still, not as tight a fit as Ghaunadaur is to Moander.
@Baltas - I like your exposition on the way you integrated the 3 Lost Deities in your homebrew FR campaign world. I completely forgot about Juiblex (in an ascended/amplified mode, presumably). |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 20:56:51
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well this is completely non canon, but I view moander as a primeval power of rot and corruption.
What I mean to say is that the god we know as Moander was just the latest incarnation of many super powered beings of rot, and decay.
The Moander that caused the death of the creator races need not have been the same Moander that battled Alias and Garnet.
Such a juggernaut of one of the basic constants of the universe is birthed by cataclysmic events that cause the death of many (dead things rot), then in times of peace and prosperity it died out only to be reborn again at the next event.
Are they the same creature reborn each time, perhaps, perhaps not. You could imagine that within every micro-organism is a tiny little mote of Moander, when one of those organisms grows to monstrous size, Moander has returned - but is always slightly different.
Of course that's just my take on it.
The Moander unleashed upon Tsornyl may not be the same as the Moander that died since it was written that it was a piece of Moander separated and imprisoned beneath Darkwatch (and therefore no longer part of the whole). That was several thousand years ago, I would imagine even deities change in a few thousand years.
For myself I always pictured Finder rotting away from the inside. The hubris that he suffered from in the past returning to slowly turn him back into Moander (I also plan to tie it to the Harpers and the schism).
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
This is also entirely non-canon, but I view Moander as a once-healthy god who has been corrupted and mutated into a thing of half-insane rot and living decay by something else even greater and far more sinister than any mere deity or portfolio of some single little world like Toril. I like to think Moander was originally some sort of neutral benign nature god (of druids) whose portfolio governed growing, living things in the natural world.
Gods and Powers can be slain. So it seems unwise to assume these beings are immune to superdivine sicknesses, corruptions, and afflictions not unlike those they are able to inflict upon lowly mortals. Even gods must be cautious of utterly incomprehensible, alien aberrations and abominations from the Far Realms and beyond, none (that we know of from lore) have ever attempted to expand their influence outside of what they (and we) can readily understand.
Hmm, taking some inspiration from Zon-Kuthon here, Ayrik  ? Actually, my version of Moander is a bit similar to yours, but more to dazzlerdals', as in my campaign, Moander isn't a god corrupted by an alien disease, but he/she/it is the alien disease itself. That's why in my canon, Moander was an alien monstrosity of tentacles, eyes and mouths in Curse of the Azure Bonds, yet in Pools of Darkness, his vestige looks just like a giant, decayed human corpse. The vestige was just Moander's last host/victim. This also is, in my homebrew at least, the reason why he/she/it corrupted Tyche and Auril, was in order to take them later, as it's new hosts/incarnations. Although I have Moander as keeping more of his/her/it's previous personality, than, for example, Mystra did between her incarnations.
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
quote:
Originally posted by nblanton
There isn't such a deity currently, but the third could be a dwarven or gnomish god of rust and corrosion. I could see that being a counter to several of the craft and forge deities.
Another related deity is the Orcish god of death & disease - Yurtrus. With associated titles like The Lord of Maggots and The Rotting One, you can see why. Still, not as tight a fit as Ghaunadaur is to Moander.
@Baltas - I like your exposition on the way you integrated the 3 Lost Deities in your homebrew FR campaign world. I completely forgot about Juiblex (in an ascended/amplified mode, presumably).
Thanks  . Your idea with Yurtrus, is itself pretty brilliant, he really fits with Ghaunadaur and (especialy)Moander. This guy is one of the creepiest racial deities, along with Urdlen. Also, another of Ghaunadaur's old allies, was Bwimb, Archomental of the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze. Sadly, he's also dead, like Moander, killed by Tenebrous/Orcus during his infamous rampage with the Last Word, and his daughter, Bwimb the Second, doesn't keep relationships with Ghaunadaur... |
Edited by - Baltas on 15 Sep 2014 20:58:01 |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 21:07:01
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He just makes to good of an evil force in the Realms to not show back up again.
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 21:11:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
the threat of his return than
Threat to whom? The the dozen other evil deities who'd groan at seeing the waiting line toward their next turn to try to destroy/conquer the world get even longer (while glaring even more at their colleagues who sold their turns to Shar in exchange for her desert during lunch at Cynosure.)? |
Edited by - Mirtek on 15 Sep 2014 21:13:46 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2014 : 02:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
This is also entirely non-canon, but I view Moander as a once-healthy god who has been corrupted and mutated into a thing of half-insane rot and living decay by something else even greater and far more sinister than any mere deity or portfolio of some single little world like Toril. I like to think Moander was originally some sort of neutral benign nature god (of druids) whose portfolio governed growing, living things in the natural world.
Gods and Powers can be slain. So it seems unwise to assume these beings are immune to superdivine sicknesses, corruptions, and afflictions not unlike those they are able to inflict upon lowly mortals. Even gods must be cautious of utterly incomprehensible, alien aberrations and abominations from the Far Realms and beyond, none (that we know of from lore) have ever attempted to expand their influence outside of what they (and we) can readily understand.
That is a very good take as well. If Auril was affected by the black gem and that turned her more evil.... who is to say that Moander himself wasn't previously something less evil who was himself infected. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2014 : 16:37:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
the threat of his return than
Threat to whom? The the dozen other evil deities who'd groan at seeing the waiting line toward their next turn to try to destroy/conquer the world get even longer (while glaring even more at their colleagues who sold their turns to Shar in exchange for her desert during lunch at Cynosure.)?
Well, as Moander is credited with orchestrating the fall of the Creator Races, this may mean s/he is indirectly, or directly responcible for all connected with this Fall. Like Asgoroth's summoning, the second Primordial/God war, the split between Abeir and Toril, and all of the resulting carnage. Moander's methods of recruitment, controling and keeping his/it's/hers worshippers loyal was also horryfying. Guy/Gal was a pretty compentent villian, while active, and pretty disturbing when you read about him/her/it in detail. There was a reason why Moander was known as "The Great Dread God". |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2014 : 20:38:52
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| Dunno, Moander seems not very serpentine. And pretty much everything made by Sarrukh seems to be at least a bit related to snakes. He seems more connected to Far Realm entities, specificaly Beholders. He/she/it seems to love transforming them into Death Tyrants, and Moanders Deepspawn, are somewhat Beholder-like, with some octopi-like traits. And I think that it was suggested that Moander was either created by the first war of Selune and Shar, or came into the Realms interested by it. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2014 : 21:09:07
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Well Moander being created is not really enough for a being like Moander to exist.
I pictured Moander rising from the rot and decay that the Sarrukh caused when they attempted to drown the phaerimm.
The Sarrukh being reptilian in nature appear to have liked dwelling in tropical jungle environments. The Anauroch/Netheril Basin was probably very forested and was definitely very fertile.
The Narrow Sea ran north to south bordering the Greypeaks and the Sarrukh used land shaping magic to alter the course of the sea and drown the phaerimm in the Underdark beneath.
Following that event the Narrow Sea ran east to west (or was it west to east I can never remember). Either way one can assume the event was quite sudden and the sea disappeared in a matter of moments otherwise it would never have succeeded in drowning the phaerimm.
So the forested land the sea now covers is submerged in water creating a massive rotting soup. The fish and life in the area that the Narrow Sea once occupied are left lying all over the land east of the Greypeaks. Couple that with the probably change in climate of the basin (large bodies of water can have quite a profound effect on winds which can alter the environment (I believe Africa is an example of areas scoured by wind into desert and then other areas adjacent to it are tropical rainforests because the moisture is trapped by mountains).
Netheril occupied the same area some 10s of millennia later and it was definitely not forested (and the northern areas were almost arctic tundra) so I pictured the vast forests dying and rotting and decaying.
From out of the new Narrow Sea crawls this oozing rotting monstrousity (land shaping magics merging with the rotting matter to create a kind of living spell primordial) kind of like that big nasty monster in the animated cartoon Ferngully.
He rampages across the basin and finishes off the Sarrukh and runs out of steam somewhere in the mountains known as Moander's Footsteps where he cocoons himself and lies undiscovered for ages until people from Netheril find him again.
Of course none of this makes him a god at this point, just an unstoppable juggernaut of rot and decay. The ascent to godhood I pinned during/after the fall of Netheril when the Netherese spread and took their beliefs with them. Thereby gaining enough worshippers to make Moander a god, and possibly because silly Tyche touched the rotting flower that was all that remained of the previous Moander and he consumed enough of her to become a god himself - although who knows really.
But again I picture Moander appearing (during the fall of Isstosseffifil), dying off when there is nothing left to rot (he runs out of food), forming some kind of cocoon where he can survive indefinitely, until someone stumbles across him and wakes him up (although he "evolves" constantly so his new form is different).
Anyway that's my take on it and I'm working on a Netheril rewrite for Issue 7 of my fan mag which includes this story. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2014 : 21:12:29
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| I don't know if I'm just a sucker for happy endings or what, but if Moander comes back and absorbs Finder or some such, I hope it has an effect on him that leads to a more neutral alignment or even good. This way, the whole Finder storyline doesn't become a waste of time and there is a lasting positive affect on the realms rather than just a colossal reset button. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 16 Sep 2014 21:13:35 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2014 : 21:16:23
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| Finder is included in the sample list of FR deities in the PHB. They are active in the current era (they can be chosen for PCs in the official organized play), so I highly doubt that the eventual Moander's return will happen at Finder's expense. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Moander ... Returning to the 5E Realms?
