| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bhaal |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 19:13:11
Now that I'm back, how will you plan to use the Lord of Murder in your games?
Will you have a game set in the Age of Upheaval, with lots of murders happening in Baldur's Gate? Will you wait until the Age of Upheaval is over and things have settled into a more peaceful state with gods that are more distant?
And perhaps most important of all, should I murder that tool Cyric? Or make him my slave, a lesser demi-power? 
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| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Therise |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 14:48:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
I think Bhaal should definitely kill Cyric. While I've never been fond of the Lord of Murder, I like the Prince of Lies even less (if there's any god that deserves to be assassinated, IMHO, it's Cyric).
I'd be happier if they killed off each other. Or if the survivor was weakened enough to be immediately picked off by someone else, like Mask. 
I wouldn't want Mask to be a god of murder, though. Especially considering recent events in Godborn. Bhaal is definitely back and has the portfolio of death with murder, and I'd find it -very- odd if they just get rid of him again. So that makes Cyric extremely redundant. What portfolios does he have left? Intrigue? Deception (illusion~lies)?
If portfolios can't be shared, and because Mask really does need the portfolio of intrigue back, it's Cyric that should be reduced to mortality - or killed outright. I have zero interest in Cyric as a replacement for Leira. I'd prefer Leira as the goddess of deception and illusion. Cyric's soul should go to Shar's domain, sealing the deal on getting rid of him permanently.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 14:24:50
quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
I think Bhaal should definitely kill Cyric. While I've never been fond of the Lord of Murder, I like the Prince of Lies even less (if there's any god that deserves to be assassinated, IMHO, it's Cyric).
I'd be happier if they killed off each other. Or if the survivor was weakened enough to be immediately picked off by someone else, like Mask. |
| Drustan Dwnhaedan |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 07:40:33
I think Bhaal should definitely kill Cyric. While I've never been fond of the Lord of Murder, I like the Prince of Lies even less (if there's any god that deserves to be assassinated, IMHO, it's Cyric). |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 01:18:40
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
"But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
At first it seems counterintuitive, doesn't it?
They key lay in understanding that if Ed had been responsible all these years for plotting the course of the Realms and deciding which characters would receive attention in novels, then no, the deities of the Realms wouldn't have been so much at the forefront as they have been.
But since Ed has never had that power or responsibility, he's had to write what other people--i.e. his bosses at TSR and later WotC--wanted, which meant a focus on the likes of Elminster and the other divine go-betweens in the Realms.
*******
Regarding Bhaal: I'm not running a Realms campaign right now, but I hope to include priests and worshipers of Bhaal in future NPC writeups.
I hope to see more of Bhaal in future Realms novels too. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 00:35:02
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Wasn‘t there a little conflict between Tempus and Talos, both claiming dominion over the lesser portfolio of Violent Death? Or maybe it was Sudden Death? Either way, this seems like the sort of thing which should interest the god of murder and assassins.
I wonder if a god of murder could assassinate another god? And for what sort of payment? To my knowledge, the only gods who have accomplished this are Shar, Mask, Talos, Tempus, perhaps Bane, and useless little Cyric. Of these, unbelievably, only Cyric behaved in proper accordance with his divine mandate.
Mask created intrigue, Talos caused destruction, etc... |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 00:17:08
Mass murder throughout the Realms to apease you oh Lord of Murder. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 22:51:03
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
Bhaal? Psh, please. I'd rather bring back Jergal. ;)
•••••••
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Bhaal, along with all of the other gods, is going to take a more mysterious/backseat (not-in-your-face) role in my campaign. I much prefer they be objects of faith, worship, awe, and fear than beings who essentially act like 'supers' in the world.
Ya know, I was watching the Gencon FR panel on youtube, and I heard Mr. Greenwood discussing just this - that the gods were never supposed to be as "in your face" as they became.
And then I couldn't help but think, "But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
I dunno, I think Troy Denning has had his characters in more face-to-face situations with deities than Ed has. Heck, Malik attended a meeting of the gods -- I didn't see Elminster there.
Heck, even Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak have put characters in face-to-face situations with their gods; Holly Harrowslough and Joel the Rebel Bard have spoken with multiple deities at once.
Elminster may see his goddess more oft than other characters, but Ed was not the first to have his characters face-to-face with divinity, and he's not been the worst. |
| Therise |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 21:55:19
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
Ah, but Ed's home games aren't how the majority of the world gets to perceive the Realms; It's his novels that most people know, and those are the culprits. 
Audience perception of a few popular novels isn't any kind of evidence of personal hypocrisy, though. Have you read everything he's written? I suspect you're thinking of a rather small subset of his Elminster and Chosen novels.
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| Neo2151 |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 19:25:29
Ah, but Ed's home games aren't how the majority of the world gets to perceive the Realms; It's his novels that most people know, and those are the culprits. |
| Therise |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 15:26:31
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
Ya know, I was watching the Gencon FR panel on youtube, and I heard Mr. Greenwood discussing just this - that the gods were never supposed to be as prolific and "in your face" as they became.
And then I couldn't help but think, "But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
Well, yes and no. Ed's home game tended to have the deities much more behind the scenes, 99% of the time. A flash of rose-colored light on an altar, or a catching sight of a unicorn in the forest, things like that were common - for PCs. Not for everyday commoners, though. Did the gods walk Faerun sometimes? Yes, perhaps. Did some gods have relationships with NPCs? Yes, sometimes, perhaps. But typically those were "reveals" after the fact, or assumptions and beliefs by other NPCs (which may have been true, or not) rather than making them "in-your-face" DMPCs or full-on novel characters. Was a goddess truly incarnated as a serving wench in an Inn? Well, that's up to your DM. Perhaps it was real, or perhaps your PC had a little too much Amnian pipeweed that night.
Also, how people perceive the Chosen is critical, particularly their extremely high-powered novel activities during late 2E and early 3E. Those novels were rather popular, but they also were extremely "epic level" and pulled massively far away from the day-to-day Realms.
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| Neo2151 |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 15:16:25
Bhaal? Psh, please. I'd rather bring back Jergal. ;)
•••••••
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Bhaal, along with all of the other gods, is going to take a more mysterious/backseat (not-in-your-face) role in my campaign. I much prefer they be objects of faith, worship, awe, and fear than beings who essentially act like 'supers' in the world.
Ya know, I was watching the Gencon FR panel on youtube, and I heard Mr. Greenwood discussing just this - that the gods were never supposed to be as "in your face" as they became.
And then I couldn't help but think, "But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
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| Therise |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 14:59:14
Because of the way that the Companions and Godborn have developed, I am seriously considering putting my home Realms (actively developed since "Old Gray Box") on hiatus and trying out the 5E Realms when it launches. Still have to wait for the rest of the novels to come out, of course, and then it's not certain when a 5E Realms guide will get published - probably late 2014 at the earliest, I'd guess.
But I've been -very- pleasantly surprised by the novels and things like Murder in Baldur's Gate and Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle. At minimum, I might just fast-forward my own Realms to the current age. But they're doing a lot of things that I'm liking right now. One of which is the return of the unreliable narrator. Another is an insight in how gods/ascension works with portfolios (e.g. see the end of Godborn... no spoilers here). A third is the promise that Spellplague will be reduced (and they made good on that). A fourth is the promise that gods will eventually become more distant and RSEs will tone down.
So from my perspective, WotC is delivering on the Realms. Slowly, and organically through the narrative/novel process, and that's how things should be done IMO. So WotC is going to get my support. That might mean updating my own Realms to the current era, or it might mean fully adopting 5E Realms with all the 4E warts. Even at this somewhat early point, they've done enough to win me back as a customer.
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul will be featured in my future games.
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| Lord Bane |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 13:26:40
Bhaal seeking to murder Cyric. Divine drama unfolds. Main cast Bhaal and Cyric, former one aided by Bane and as suprise act Myrkul. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 04:16:29
I won't. I think he's redundant and better off dead.
I've got no problem with a deity having the portfolio of murder, but I don't think that should be the only thing they have. |
| Derulbaskul |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 03:38:18
I'm staying with the 4E Realms - no more RSEs for me ever again unless I cause them - but Bhaal has already started making his play within the Zhentarim. I don't know whether the end result will be his return and Cyric's complete banishment or simply more disappointment for [Undercover Blues]Morty[/Undercover Blues]. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:42:15
Bhaal, along with all of the other gods, is going to take a more mysterious/backseat (not-in-your-face) role in my campaign. I much prefer they be objects of faith, worship, awe, and fear than beings who essentially act like 'supers' in the world. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:22:24
Wasn‘t there a little conflict between Tempus and Talos, both claiming dominion over the lesser portfolio of Violent Death? Or maybe it was Sudden Death? Either way, this seems like the sort of thing which should interest the god of murder and assassins.
I wonder if a god of murder could assassinate another god? And for what sort of payment? To my knowledge, the only gods who have accomplished this are Shar, Mask, Talos, Tempus, perhaps Bane, and useless little Cyric. Of these, unbelievably, only Cyric behaved in proper accordance with his divine mandate. |
| Bhaal |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:15:34
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Bhaal‘s presence almost demands the inclusion of a PC assassin class. Hopefully a decent specialist, as it was back in AD&D (1E). Hopefully not a fits-the-new-template like, say, the 2E versions of bard and monk subclasses which lost much of their 1E-era flavour and uniqueness. Not many of my players were ever particularly concerned about being targeted by a 2E assassin, yet they greatly feared and respected being targeted in 1E.
Indeed! While most assassins don't need a class per se, it's always nice to have crunchy options.
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| Bhaal |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:12:42
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Good thing your just the god of murder, most the other gods do a much better job having followers that actually kill things
Fear clings to you like the stench of a charnel house.
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 22:50:56
Bhaal‘s presence almost demands the inclusion of a PC assassin class. Hopefully a decent specialist, as it was back in AD&D (1E). Hopefully not a fits-the-new-template like, say, the 2E versions of bard and monk subclasses which lost much of their 1E-era flavour and uniqueness. Not many of my players were ever particularly concerned about being targeted by a 2E assassin, yet they greatly feared and respected being targeted in 1E. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 22:49:19
Good thing your just the god of murder, most the other gods do a much better job having followers that actually kill things |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 19:34:37
Well, I will kill him again *wink* |
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