| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 01:28:07
When Mystra died (and disappeared for a century) did her Chosen lose their silverfire? I ask because they didn't seem to lose it when her predecessor died but the last round of El novels seemed to indicate that he no longer possessed it. Did it deplete over time or was it lost altogether? (assuming it was lost at all).
Part of my confusion lies in the fact that he found Symrustar in the Underdark with her silverfire intact, or am I remembering wrongly? Also, Manshoon had silverfire upon his death in El Enraged.
Personally, since the silverfire was only supposed to be lost if it were willingly given up I prefer that they kept it (and perhaps it was depleted w/o the Weave to replenish it). |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Diffan |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 22:34:13
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
Thanks for the explanation! I'm still a little confused about where the power comes from if the Weave is not the source of magic anymore? Is it not explained? Does it draw on whatever the new source of magic is?
I was thinking after the spellplague, chosen only had a finite amount of Sliver Fire. It wasnt "recharged" by the weave and that partially why El was stealing magic items in Cormyr....To feed the Simbul and keep her sane due to her loss of it.
That's my thought as well. I'm more confused on this power that the champions of Aglarond use. They're calling it silver fire, but I'm not able to figure out how that can be the case if the Weave is kaput.
Maybe it's drawn directly from The Simbul.....and thats whys she went batcrap crazy...a bunch of jumped up, self titled "champion of Aglarond"s running about all willy nilly leeching her of her silver fire?
I don't think the Weave was destroyed, just completely unraveled and destroyed the way casters have been accessing it for centuries. Those of Aglarond who have been studying The Simbul ajd learning from her might have gleaned how to draw a bit of the Weave directly. That could explain why its only usable in short durations and not upon command like the Chosen could do.
Of course one of the "charms" of 4E is that its open enough to interpretation so that the Player or DM can devise their own reasoning and not completely go against Canon. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 22:24:24
It is a VERY real possibility that Manshoon is unique in this regard. This is why I hate NDA's. It should really be a simple matter to get clarification on this.  |
| Therise |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 22:11:51
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
Thanks for the explanation! I'm still a little confused about where the power comes from if the Weave is not the source of magic anymore? Is it not explained? Does it draw on whatever the new source of magic is?
Just jumping back in here for a comment. In the era 4E, I'm not sure we can say that the Weave was completely destroyed. Frayed, seriously damaged, unraveled maybe, but perhaps not destroyed.
That said, becoming a Chosen (and getting silver fire) is like being invested with a shard or fragment of Mystra's essence. Mystra literally "gives it up" and can't get it back by force (well, aside from killing the Chosen). So her Chosen literally hold a portion of the goddess within themselves.
Now with Manshoon, he doesn't care about gods really, just power. He would use that power a lot, and perhaps he used it so much that it became intimately tied to his soul - such that it wouldn't dissipate "normally" like when another Chosen dies. That may be the reason he had multiple clones activate at once - perhaps his soul has fragmented and yet each of those fragments is comingled with Mystra's essence such that "mere death" won't cause the Silver Fire to go "back to the source" upon his death. Elminster had to literally rip the Silver Fire from vamp-Manshoon in that clone, which isn't something we've seen. Manshoon may be unique.
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| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 22:02:27
I just had another thought about Larloch. Markustay please chime in if you read this as it's based on your opinion on the nature of the Shadowking. Markustay's opinion is that the Shadowking (currently Larloch, others have had this title) is the Shadow Weave equivalent to Mystra's Magister. If so, it may have once been possible for Larloch to touch silverfire but no longer...he has been tied to the Shadow Weave far too intimately for that. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 21:58:27
Just to respond to the discussion about the soul, multiple stasis clones and silverfire: Might it be possible for the stasis clone spell to work that Manshoon must leave a miniscule piece of his lifeforce in them? If so, this could mean that each one has a bit of silverfire in it (I know I'm basically repeating Emma's comment above here). The point I'm driving at is that Manshoon never had the FULL power of the Chosen b/c his fire is subdivided so much, but the fewer that remain the stronger the active clone becomes. Just food for thought.
Since my own opinion (and if anyone knows of canon references that support, alters, or destroys this opinion please tell me) of silverfire is that it is spellfire comingled with Mystra's divine essence (her soul, if you will) it stands to reason that mortals who receive silverfire have their souls fundamentally altered to house it.
Oh and just an afterthought that is actually off topic. In Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, there is a discussion that refers to the search by wizards everywhere for the UNIVERSAL COMPONENT. That component should be silverfire. |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 19:22:11
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Maybe it's drawn directly from The Simbul.....and thats whys she went batcrap crazy...a unch of self title "champion of Aglarond" running about all willy nilly leeching her of her silver fire?
Haha. I can see it now. Some sort of ritual that bound her power/soul to the land. Seemed like a good idea at the time... 100 years later: "It's so good to be sane again. Wonder what keeps making me crazy? Must be careful not to cast spells. Lalala. Wait, noooo... Now I remember! Not again, you twits! Ahhhhh! Oooh, look, bird! Bird bird bird bird MOUSE. Nom nom nom." And then Elminster comes and it begins again. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 19:17:19
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
Thanks for the explanation! I'm still a little confused about where the power comes from if the Weave is not the source of magic anymore? Is it not explained? Does it draw on whatever the new source of magic is?
I was thinking after the spellplague, chosen only had a finite amount of Sliver Fire. It wasnt "recharged" by the weave and that partially why El was stealing magic items in Cormyr....To feed the Simbul and keep her sane due to her loss of it.
That's my thought as well. I'm more confused on this power that the champions of Aglarond use. They're calling it silver fire, but I'm not able to figure out how that can be the case if the Weave is kaput.
Maybe it's drawn directly from The Simbul.....and thats whys she went batcrap crazy...a bunch of jumped up, self titled "champion of Aglarond"s running about all willy nilly leeching her of her silver fire? |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 19:13:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
Thanks for the explanation! I'm still a little confused about where the power comes from if the Weave is not the source of magic anymore? Is it not explained? Does it draw on whatever the new source of magic is?
I was thinking after the spellplague, chosen only had a finite amount of Sliver Fire. It wasnt "recharged" by the weave and that partially why El was stealing magic items in Cormyr....To feed the Simbul and keep her sane due to her loss of it.
That's my thought as well. I'm more confused on this power that the champions of Aglarond use. They're calling it silver fire, but I'm not able to figure out how that can be the case if the Weave is kaput. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 18:54:25
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
While Manshoon and Elminster don't have Silver Fire listed in their blocks I don't think it would be a stretch for them to be able to use it since they were tied into the Weave at some point. Those who've chosen to champion Aglarond can use a form of Silver Fire. It uses the same name and the description reads as follows:
You summon a jet of pure magical power that burns through all defenses and empowers your other spells.
It's an encounter power for that Paragon path that has a range of 50 ft. and targets one creature. The attack uses Intelligence but with a heafty +8 to the roll so even if your primary stat is say....Wisdom or Charisma you can still benefit from it since it's SUCH are large bonus. The damage appears meager (only 1d6 + Intelligence modifier) but the damage is consistant thoughout the REST of the battle due to the target taking additional damage = to 1/2 your level whenever you hit it again. So a 14th level Wizard would hit the target with Silver fire for say, 1d6 + 5 + other stuff like enchantment bonuses, items, feats, yadda-yadda and for the entirety of the battle each attack would deal an additional 7 damage on top......just cuz'.
Now if your not familiar with the rules for 4E, this is pretty strong since you can make multiple attacks via Action Points and other gimmicks. And having TWO people with Silver Fire have an easier chance of ending the lives of strong monsters quicker.
Thanks for the explanation! I'm still a little confused about where the power comes from if the Weave is not the source of magic anymore? Is it not explained? Does it draw on whatever the new source of magic is?
I was thinking after the spellplague, chosen only had a finite amount of Sliver Fire. It wasnt "recharged" by the weave and that partially why El was stealing magic items in Cormyr....To feed the Simbul and keep her sane due to her loss of it. |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 18:43:05
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
While Manshoon and Elminster don't have Silver Fire listed in their blocks I don't think it would be a stretch for them to be able to use it since they were tied into the Weave at some point. Those who've chosen to champion Aglarond can use a form of Silver Fire. It uses the same name and the description reads as follows:
You summon a jet of pure magical power that burns through all defenses and empowers your other spells.
It's an encounter power for that Paragon path that has a range of 50 ft. and targets one creature. The attack uses Intelligence but with a heafty +8 to the roll so even if your primary stat is say....Wisdom or Charisma you can still benefit from it since it's SUCH are large bonus. The damage appears meager (only 1d6 + Intelligence modifier) but the damage is consistant thoughout the REST of the battle due to the target taking additional damage = to 1/2 your level whenever you hit it again. So a 14th level Wizard would hit the target with Silver fire for say, 1d6 + 5 + other stuff like enchantment bonuses, items, feats, yadda-yadda and for the entirety of the battle each attack would deal an additional 7 damage on top......just cuz'.
Now if your not familiar with the rules for 4E, this is pretty strong since you can make multiple attacks via Action Points and other gimmicks. And having TWO people with Silver Fire have an easier chance of ending the lives of strong monsters quicker.
Thanks for the explanation! I'm still a little confused about where the power comes from if the Weave is not the source of magic anymore? Is it not explained? Does it draw on whatever the new source of magic is? |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 18:41:33
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Now you guys are taxing my memeory here...but I remeber reading(in and Ed novel I think) that upon death of the weilder....silver fire is reabsorbed into the weave and kind of meanders through until Mystra can redistribute it. and that a rough summation of my fuzzy recollection. but it seem pretty clear that it wasnt just "left hanging".
And the short Story "Tears So White" is a must read for any interested in Larloch and his hunger for/inability to touch the silver fire.
I think the crux here is how you view what happens with a clone. You can either see it as a fragment of the soul (broken off from the caster during creation), the soul traveling to the clone upon death, or something with a new/no soul.
My personal view, which is informed by my coming to age in the era of 3.5/3.P is that someone who has a clone doesn't actually die, but that their soul travels to the clone upon the death of the physical vessel they were using previously. This would mean, if silver fire is all bound up in the soul/base essence of an individual, that it would travel to the clone (along with the soul) upon the death of Manshoon's current body. This is one reason I don't like the idea of fragmented silver fire in all of his clones during the Clone Wars. It doesn't fit with my view of how cloning works. But then again, neither does having all of his clones active at once. Heh. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 18:40:23
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
That's true, I don't recall any overt use of silverfire on his part. He could still have bonus spells and what have you though...or would it be bonus uses of encounter spells under 4e?
From Manshoon's 4E Stat-block he does not have Silver fire but it woudln't be hard to incorporate it or change a power to emulate Silve Fire. Also, just because he doesn't show having it doesn't mean that the character no longer has that ability, it just probably isn't something he resorts to very often.
Silve Fire power, however, is very nice and something a Simbarch of Aglarond can use 1/encounter.
Please forgive my ignorance, as I've not read any of the 4e materials, but isn't silver fire pulled from the Weave? And if there is no Weave, how do people have it? Is there something else called silver fire in 4e that is not the same as the silver fire that the Chosen of Mystra use?
While Manshoon and Elminster don't have Silver Fire listed in their blocks I don't think it would be a stretch for them to be able to use it since they were tied into the Weave at some point. Those who've chosen to champion Aglarond can use a form of Silver Fire. It uses the same name and the description reads as follows:
You summon a jet of pure magical power that burns through all defenses and empowers your other spells.
It's an encounter power for that Paragon path that has a range of 50 ft. and targets one creature. The attack uses Intelligence but with a heafty +8 to the roll so even if your primary stat is say....Wisdom or Charisma you can still benefit from it since it's SUCH are large bonus. The damage appears meager (only 1d6 + Intelligence modifier) but the damage is consistant thoughout the REST of the battle due to the target taking additional damage = to 1/2 your level whenever you hit it again. So a 14th level Wizard would hit the target with Silver fire for say, 1d6 + 5 + other stuff like enchantment bonuses, items, feats, yadda-yadda and for the entirety of the battle each attack would deal an additional 7 damage on top......just cuz'.
Now if your not familiar with the rules for 4E, this is pretty strong since you can make multiple attacks via Action Points and other gimmicks. And having TWO people with Silver Fire have an easier chance of ending the lives of strong monsters quicker.
|
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 18:27:08
Ah yes, I knew we had a conversation here that touched on that short story......just didnt think 7 1/2 years had passed already!
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6026 |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 18:25:21
Now you guys are taxing my memeory here...but I remeber reading(in and Ed novel I think) that upon death of the weilder....silver fire is reabsorbed into the weave and kind of meanders through until Mystra can redistribute it. and that a rough summation of my fuzzy recollection. but it seem pretty clear that it wasnt just "left hanging".
And the short Story "Tears So White" is a must read for any interested in Larloch and his hunger for/inability to touch the silver fire. |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 23 Aug 2013 : 16:43:13
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Larloch can't touch Silver Fire because he is intimately tied into the Shadow Weave. Being undead may not be a problem in and of itself, because many undead (baelnorn, for example) can use high-end Weave magics.
That's basically what I knew about Silver Fire. Thanks for clarifying the point about Larloch. I haven't read those books yet, so I wasn't sure about the context. Based on what you say about his connection to the Shadow Weave, I think there is no contradiction in Manshoon being able to use Silver Fire. It's magic and undead can use magic.
Wouldn't it be interesting if you're right about the fracturing of the silver fire. That means each time a clone died, the silver fire grew within all of the others... Interesting. I don't like the idea of all powerful Silver Fire wielding Manshoons running around though. And I can't imagine Mystra would like something she granted to a precious few suddenly bouncing around all over the place. Unless he became Chosen after the Clone Wars. In which case, the spark may just jump to the next clone in line every time he dies. But I imagine we will learn more about Manshoon's Chosen status and how that works in the coming book from Ed. Or at least I hope so! |
| Therise |
Posted - 22 Aug 2013 : 20:10:37
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
Please forgive my ignorance, as I've not read any of the 4e materials, but isn't silver fire pulled from the Weave? And if there is no Weave, how do people have it? Is there something else called silver fire in 4e that is not the same as the silver fire that the Chosen of Mystra use?
Silver Fire is unique to Mystra's Chosen and has multifaceted powers associated with it. I can't be specific to how Silver Fire operates under the rules set of 4E, but it has several properties that I'll describe. There is also Spellfire, but it's quite different (though has some of the same effects, magically).
Silver Fire is pure Weave magic, given to an individual by Mystra. It IS the Weave and part of the Weave, but also made inherent to that Chosen (i.e. they don't "draw it" so much that it's a really exhausting divine ability to use). It violently clashes with Shadow Weave magic, and when the two come in contact you can generate dead magic zones, a breach in the fabric of reality, damage to the physical world, or rifts between planes.
By itself, Silver Fire can be used as a weapon: a beam of magical white flame (width and shape determined somewhat by the user. It can destroy magical and physical barriers of all kinds and inflicts tremendous damage to anyone hit by it. Nonliving objects are completely destroyed.
Alternately, it can take the form of a silvery cloud (quite large) which causes no damage but permanently reverses dead magic zones - making magic permanently and fully available again in that area. For some reason, Mystra didn't want her Chosen to use this form of the ability much, except in emergencies.
It can be used to teleport (no chance of error) to any location where that Chosen has used silver fire in the past.
Finally, silver fire can purge a Chosen of all external magical and psionic compulsions. It may have certain physical healing properties as well.
It may have other, as yet unknown (to us), abilities.
As to Manshoon... it's been said that Manshoon was once a Chosen and that he had Silver Fire. It is not clear (at least to me) whether Silver Fire can also be "cloned" (or distributed to his clones) and might therefore useable by his clones. It's possible that the amount of Silver Fire given originally may divide among the clones, but that's just a theory. Bear in mind that the "real" (or at least the eldest, possibly original) Manshoon either has left Toril for other planes or has been extremely quiet. Other things are also possible: since Mystra's Silver Fire becomes linked essentially to a person's soul, it may be that Manshoon's spirit fragmented with the activation of multiple clones. Each one may have part of the Silver Fire Manshoon was originally given, because each has a part of his soul.
Manshoon may also have Spellfire, or his Silver Fire may have been warped in some way by his experiments or using in ways that Mystra warns against.
Larloch can't touch Silver Fire because he is intimately tied into the Shadow Weave. Being undead may not be a problem in and of itself, because many undead (baelnorn, for example) can use high-end Weave magics.
As to whether or not Mystra's Chosen "lost" their silver fire upon her "death" or near-death in 4E, I don't think they did. However, it may have been dangerous to use it because of the general collapse/fraying of the Weave, it might not have been recoverable if used during that time, or it could have been warped in some way. But I don't think they lost it entirely, given that once Silver Fire is granted to a Chosen it becomes inherently linked with that Chosen's life (and perhaps soul).
|
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 22 Aug 2013 : 19:32:05
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
That's true, I don't recall any overt use of silverfire on his part. He could still have bonus spells and what have you though...or would it be bonus uses of encounter spells under 4e?
From Manshoon's 4E Stat-block he does not have Silver fire but it woudln't be hard to incorporate it or change a power to emulate Silve Fire. Also, just because he doesn't show having it doesn't mean that the character no longer has that ability, it just probably isn't something he resorts to very often.
Silve Fire power, however, is very nice and something a Simbarch of Aglarond can use 1/encounter.
Please forgive my ignorance, as I've not read any of the 4e materials, but isn't silver fire pulled from the Weave? And if there is no Weave, how do people have it? Is there something else called silver fire in 4e that is not the same as the silver fire that the Chosen of Mystra use? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 22 Aug 2013 : 19:29:41
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
That's true, I don't recall any overt use of silverfire on his part. He could still have bonus spells and what have you though...or would it be bonus uses of encounter spells under 4e?
From Manshoon's 4E Stat-block he does not have Silver fire but it woudln't be hard to incorporate it or change a power to emulate Silve Fire. Also, just because he doesn't show having it doesn't mean that the character no longer has that ability, it just probably isn't something he resorts to very often.
Silve Fire power, however, is very nice and something a Simbarch of Aglarond can use 1/encounter. |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 22 Aug 2013 : 19:03:45
As for Manshoon as a villain... He is complex and layered and I like that in my villains. But he's a little too crazy to take seriously. In the last Elminster trilogy, he starts off fine - evil, measured, calculating. (I don't think you have to be Lawful Evil to be a good villain, but flailing about doing ridiculous things never got anyone much of anywhere.) By the end of Elminster Enraged he's back to twisting his mustache and blowing up his own plans as if he hadn't been laying them ever-so-carefully for the last hundred years (or more). He hates Elminster a little too much to really succeed as a central villain.
If the reinstitution of the weave were to somehow make Manshoon a little less cray-cray, he has a lot of potential. In the shape he was in at the end of Elminster Enraged, he's a joke. |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 22 Aug 2013 : 18:58:30
My interpretation is that the Chosen retained silver fire but in a finite amount. As we saw from both The Simbul and Symrustar giving Elminster silver fire, that source of power is inextricably with life for the Chosen. Upon death absorption of another Chosen's remnants of silver fire also transfers their consciousness, at least for a little while, and transferring too much can result in the death of the wielder.
There also may be a chance of using Silver Fire causing insanity in the chosen after the fall of the weave. It seems that the most powerful magics have the highest chance of causing those sorts of problems, so it may apply to silver fire as well.
The question of whether Manshoon "should" be able to wield silver fire didn't even occur to me until this post brought it up. Can someone explain to me why that would be the case? Isn't silver fire pure magical power? And undead can cast spells and access the weave, so why wouldn't they be able to use/hold silver fire? |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 21 Aug 2013 : 02:16:28
I'd like to see him rise to control something. I'm not so sure I'd say he's the best villain so much as the villain with the most potential. I often felt he was treated as a 'stupid' villain (as were most, if not all, of them) and yet he always seemed to have the capability to achieve so much more. The last set of Elminster novels showed that he had learned from past mistakes...so hopefully we will get a good trilogy showing his rise to power. I would also like to see a trilogy featuring the genesis of the Brotherhood as well. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 21 Aug 2013 : 01:26:08
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Perhaps Manshoon had silverfire before becoming a vampire and was somehow able to retain it. I guess we will know in the next book. Which reminds me, I would really like a Manshoon series.
As would I! Manshoon has a strong argument for being the best villain in the Realms. He should be set to make some gains in 5e. I'm sure they won't let him take over Cormyr, but with everyone's focus on Shade, he's bound to do something big. |
| Euranna |
Posted - 21 Aug 2013 : 01:08:17
If I remember correctly from the recent El books, they did not lose their silverfire, but it became a finite amount within them. There is a scene when El senses silverfire loose and races to it almost like an addict (in a way). |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 19:15:03
That's true, I don't recall any overt use of silverfire on his part. He could still have bonus spells and what have you though...or would it be bonus uses of encounter spells under 4e? |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 18:54:43
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
A vampire can use Silverfire? 
From what I've read in previous lore, that makes no sense at all.
For whatever it's worth, he doesn't appear to actually use it at any point that I noticed. It leaves his body upon death. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 17:41:45
Perhaps Manshoon had silverfire before becoming a vampire and was somehow able to retain it. I guess we will know in the next book. Which reminds me, I would really like a Manshoon series. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:57:43
An undead (the ghost-paladin Mirror) was still able to wield the purifying light of his god despite the debilitating effects it had on hm. The case of Manshoon could be the same. The nature of his existence (vampire) and the nature of the silverfire must have put a considerable strain on him, mentally and physically. (Never bothered to read past EMD, so I cannot tell for sure.) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:23:38
A vampire can use Silverfire?
From what I've read in previous lore, that makes no sense at all. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 13:40:36
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
meh who needs silver fire, Sammaster has dragons to breath dragon fire!
had dragons, didnt he die off with those paladins went and partied making the dracorage mythal blow up and died?
Read the series a long time ago (about four years, I think). But I am rereading book 1, The Rage, right now.
Yes, he was, unfortunately, destroyed completely (or as completely as D&D death can be). Dorn’s party battled him and his legions of dragon “underlings,” but ultimately, it was Pavel, a priest of the Morninglord, who destroyed him by channeling the power of his deity into Sammaster’s very own sole surviving phylactery that time. The Dracorage mythal was fed by negative energies from some other planes, and Sammaster’s phylactery was used as the conduit. Destroy the phylactery, and you destroy the mythal. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 07:24:42
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
meh who needs silver fire, Sammaster has dragons to breath dragon fire!
had dragons, didnt he die off with those paladins went and partied making the dracorage mythal blow up and died? |
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