| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 16:17:45
I was curious about people's use of technology and magical-based Technology in the realms. Like inventions from our times or even sci-fi stories which you have imported to the realms, once adapting to the Realms physics. Magtech is used more in Eberron then Forgotten Realms, but it is potentially able to develop in the FR.
In fact, magic seems to duplicate much of the technology of our world and Sci-fi, which might explain why their technology is not as developed as our (Like how the first Hybrid Cars were invented in the 1970's but were not used by the U.S. until the late Nineties and the Naughts).
But I am just curious how you have pushed the envelopes as well as how you explaining in game.
Any stories or comments? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 20:33:47
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ateth Istarlin
As I recall, the supplement "Old Empires" stated that Mulhorand had steam-powered tech. used in agriculture, etc.
It's centred around the creation of the pressure engine and the employment of arcane items like stones of everburning.
They also say the priesthood of Thoth and others have been barred from making more advancement. In my campaign, though, I'm having the new pharaoh lift that ban, leading to a recovery of pressure engine technology in the 1360s and the invention of a practical locomotive in the mid 1370s.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Really? And thats why I don't like mixing (high) tech and magic in my games. Obviously magic-users would be better at tech then everyone else, which is usually the exact opposite of how I see it portrayed (that science and magic don't mix well). I personally prefer magic and tech interfere with each other, as it was in the excellent (and oft-overlooked) video game Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. I normally don't like the blend done in worlds like Iron Kingdoms (although in that setting, I am fine with it). I call that magi-tech, but I recall someone on this site using a term I had never heard before (and I liked better) - anyone?
Arcanum was an awesome game. I don't particularly like the "magic and technoogy interfere with each other" thing, but they've done it (and lots of other things) well. |
| Delwa |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 19:32:28
My group is in the process of culturally incorporating tech to the Realms. How much tech is present when all is done will depend on what time period you're playing in.
Currently, in my campaign, it's 1383ish DR. Revolvers have just been introduced to the Realms. Meaning, one or two people have them. At present, only kobolds who were given the technology by a worlds-traveling character who took pity on a creative race who tends to get trampled by more "magical" races. The kobolds were essentially given instruction on how to create gunpowder and basic pistols and revolvers, and left to invent for themselves. How the tech advances from there (who steals tech from who, who makes breakthrough discoveries, etc) will evolve as game-play evolves and my circle of DM's determine it'll make for the best story to introduce X at Y point in history and the campaign.
The eventual goal is to use the "Spellplague" (as definded by my group, not the Spellplague done by WotC) to advance basic tech. The idea is, with the death of Mystra, magic goes dead for a thousand years. During that time, firearms and other more rudimentary technology advances in the absence of magic. Magical races fade to the background and less magical races, such as the kobolds, have their season of glory. When all is said in done, when magic returns, technology has advanced to keep on par with wizards and such, and the Realms of ~2383 DR will be more of a "Shadowrun" type of world in that magic and tech co-exist (though not as advanced as lasers yet, though that may come in the distant future).
Tech-wise, we're thinking WWI/WWII era technology existing alongside a "return to Netheril" level of magical ability, since we have no intetion of going to a Mystra 3.0 but rather making more of a "Mystryl 2." |
| Marc |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 18:39:54
I try to hide the technology behind magic. A sect called the Tekne Society are occult scientists who imitate magic with technology, they think magic will be gone one day, they search for hidden power in the Outlands' Spire. They believe that all superstitions, magic, abstract concepts given form, and gods will one day vanish when the truth, basic Tekne principles, are discovered. They originate from an alternate prime-crystal sphere where gods damn to hell anyone who uses magic. |
| Kris the Grey |
Posted - 10 Jan 2013 : 06:40:03
I think there have been a few fairly thorough discussions about the official rules limitations regarding technology in the Realms here in the past on Candlekeep. Basically, electronics and gunpowder (the Earth kind) are right out.
That said, I see nothing standing in the way of all sorts of clockworks, steam power, and smoke powder (the magical gunpowder of the Realms/Spelljammer) devices. It's only natural that such technologies would advance over time.
All that said, my game has wrestled with some of these issues (especially the ones related to advanced firearms in the Realms) owing to it's somewhat peculiar nature as a Realms/Earth crossover campaign. I've stayed faithful to the general rules with two key exceptions...
First, I've allowed people with knowledge of the operations and craftsmanship of basic firearms (old style flintlocks and what not) to craft and employ those technologies if they are able to show how they would construct such weapons under the more primitive conditions of the Realms (cue comments about Boomsticks). Smokepowder is a reasonable substitute for gunpowder for most basic firearms, so that's easily enough done.
Second, I operate my campaign under the conceit that, if the PCs can be on the Realms for a reason, so can OTHER people from Earth, some of whom are less than nice guys. Some of THEM may very well be military, mercenary, or other sorts of people reliant on and familiar with very advanced firearms. They'd no doubt endeavor to find a way to make their guns work if ANY such way could be found. I gave them a way...an alliance of sorts with a deity more than happy to break the magical rules of the Realms, someone with access to their own source of magical power, a source that, if it empowered such items to subvert the normal restrictions on their operation, would allow for the PCs to be confronted by some pretty bad people armed with some pretty bad weapons just as soon as they were feeling powerful enough to think they had the whole 'living in the Realms' thing figured out.
That's my take on things tech in the Realms. In any event, as I always say, your mileage my vary. Enjoy! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 14:57:04
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I seem to recall Anubis [from Stargate SG1] merging parts of "Ascended" magic with Goa'uld tech in order to produce the kinds of specialised technology he often employed against both Earth and the other System Lords. I think there were even official rules published for it in one of the old SGRPG books released in the early 00's.
Anyways, it's a system I've used in my own campaigns, though I've yet to find a way of incorporating it, satisfyingly, in the Realms.
The way I have it in my version of the Realms, the Imaskari were the Goa'uld, and the 'tech' they had was of the magitech variety. They had colonies on many worlds, and 'imported' folk (mostly as slaves) from many of them, and they were a major contributor to the cross-pollination of most of the 'generic' D&D worlds. They were the Baklunish of Greyhawk (until the Suel rebelled, and that did not end well), the Nithians of Mystara, the Osirions of Golarion, and the Atlanteans (which also ended badly - they had a war with a local pantheon... I haven't decided who yet). The early Egyptians were their mainland slave resource. When their empire fell they lost touch with all their colonies, which then continued on their own, without the help of their 'gods' (the Imaskari Artificers).
Ptah was NOT an Imaskari, he is... something else.
Blackmoor was the FIRST human civilization, pre-dating all known worlds, and never existed on any of them (although pieces of it can be found everywhere). It arose on the True World, which was shattered during the godwar. The Blackmoorians rose to such a magnificent height of power (super-science) that they rivaled the gods, which is why on most worlds (spheres) today technology is banned (in various degrees).
There is no 'FR setting'... there is only D&D.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 14:40:16
Oh, you mean like the 'soul train'. 
From Swords of the Iron Legion, I give you the Infinity Train. Demons are all gansta, YO.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 13:48:59
A D&D analogue might be weaponry and devices from the Lower Planes being deployed in the Realms, bringing along fiendish designs and meddling celestials. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 06:15:36
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Dalor Darden
I like the way the Movie Thor treated "magic" as a technology all together of a different line of reason...
I haven't seen the movie. I presume this is not Thor from Stargate, even though he might as well be using the same magic/technology. Stargates, Transporter Room 3, the Holodeck, Jedi lightsabers, and glowing crystals from Atlantis are all the same to me ... doesn't matter if you say they're built with tools or with spells.
I seem to recall Anubis [from Stargate SG1] merging parts of "Ascended" magic with Goa'uld tech in order to produce the kinds of specialised technology he often employed against both Earth and the other System Lords. I think there were even official rules published for it in one of the old SGRPG books released in the early 00's.
Anyways, it's a system I've used in my own campaigns, though I've yet to find a way of incorporating it, satisfyingly, in the Realms. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 05:00:50
Wow... I never even heard of that one. I thought I had all the Odyssey Books. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 04:56:15
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I've actually seriously considered throwing a particular module into the Forgotten Realms that has a LOT of tech in it.
It is packed away, and I can't remember the name of it right now...but it is a boxed module where a spaceship crashes in the world. The humanoid aliens are in a war to the death against a machine-based enemy that seeks to destroy all life that might be a threat to it.
I believe you speak of Tale of the Comet.
For some reason, I was particularly fascinated by one encounter in that one: the ghost of a cyborg, with the incorporeal ghost still bound to the corporeal cyberware. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 04:40:35
quote:
Dalor Darden
I like the way the Movie Thor treated "magic" as a technology all together of a different line of reason...
I haven't seen the movie. I presume this is not Thor from Stargate, even though he might as well be using the same magic/technology. Stargates, Transporter Room 3, the Holodeck, Jedi lightsabers, and glowing crystals from Atlantis are all the same to me ... doesn't matter if you say they're built with tools or with spells. |
| Kris the Grey |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 03:59:33
I think there have been a few fairly thorough discussions about the official rules limitations regarding technology in the Realms here in the past on Candlekeep. Basically, electronics and gunpowder (the Earth kind) are right out.
That said, I see nothing standing in the way of all sorts of clockworks, steam power, and smoke powder (the magical gunpowder of the Realms/Spelljammer) devices. It's only natural that such technologies would advance over time.
All that said, my game has wrestled with some of these issues (especially the ones related to advanced firearms in the Realms) owing to it's somewhat peculiar nature as a Realms/Earth crossover campaign. I've stayed faithful to the general rules with two key exceptions...
First, I've allowed people with knowledge of the operations and craftsmanship of basic firearms (old style flintlocks and what not) to craft and employ those technologies if they are able to show how they would construct such weapons under the more primitive conditions of the Realms (cue comments about Boomsticks). Smokepowder is a reasonable substitute for gunpowder for most basic firearms, so that's easily enough done.
Second, I operate my campaign under the conceit that, if the PCs can be on the Realms for a reason, so can OTHER people from Earth, some of whom are less than nice guys. Some of THEM may very well be military, mercenary, or other sorts of people reliant on and familiar with very advanced firearms. They'd no doubt endeavor to find a way to make their guns work if ANY such way could be found. I gave them a way...an alliance of sorts with a deity more than happy to break the magical rules of the Realms, someone with access to their own source of magical power, a source that, if it empowered such items to subvert the normal restrictions on their operation, would allow for the PCs to be confronted by some pretty bad people armed with some pretty bad weapons just as soon as they were feeling powerful enough to think they had the whole 'living in the Realms' thing figured out.
That's my take on things tech in the Realms. In any event, as I always say, your mileage my vary. Enjoy! |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 03:53:53
I've actually seriously considered throwing a particular module into the Forgotten Realms that has a LOT of tech in it.
It is packed away, and I can't remember the name of it right now...but it is a boxed module where a spaceship crashes in the world. The humanoid aliens are in a war to the death against a machine-based enemy that seeks to destroy all life that might be a threat to it.
One offs are fun...constant interaction with technology would be wrong.
I like the way the Movie Thor treated "magic" as a technology all together of a different line of reason... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 02:44:13
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think these fantastic fictional things are too blurred to draw any kind of line. Nanotechnology is basically interchangeable with magic.[snip]
Agreed. When seeing its use in G.I. Joe at the cinema, why little sister asked me, "What kind of magic is that?" |
| Thrasymachus |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 02:43:06
When I cut the umbilical cord at 4th Edition I began importing Warhammer Fantasy Battle technology. So while the Realms has Smoke Powder I went with Dragon Dung is an alternate new gunpowder that Warhammer uses.
Just another reason to shove them in front of a dragon.
@Wooly I have thought that at 14th Edition and a thousand years forth of jumps I could bring in Warhammer 40k.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 02:26:37
I think these fantastic fictional things are too blurred to draw any kind of line. Nanotechnology is basically interchangeable with magic, as far as we can tell it doesn't really exist (not in the sci-fi context, anyhow), it may or may not ever exist, and all manner of wondrous possibilities are attributed to it.
Magic is described countless ways by countless sources, but a fairly common explanatory theme is for the magic to work on "natural" principles ... that is, there are physical components and relationships in magic which overlap those in science, and at the rudimentary and ultimate levels it can be difficult to distinguish between them. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 02:17:51
Yeah, thats probably it. I think when magic mimics tech it should be 'magitech', but when science is used to bolster sorcery (like an electrical accumulator to power a magical device) then it falls under the category 'technomancy'.
In one case its magic mimicking tech, and in the other, Mages just use it as a power source or whatever (but sill having a more magical flavor). For instance, flesh golems are an example of technomancy. Advanced clockwork golems (effigies) would be an example of magitech (normal ones would just be steampunk). Its kinda weird, because its such a fine line in some cases. I think of the Netherese Mythalars as a type of magitech, and yet I don't think of the similar working Faerzress/Drow devices (psuedo-magical) as anything but purely magical. I think a lot of it might have to do with presentation.
I guess listening to me, people might feel the way I feel when someone says "I don't like vanilla ice cream, but I like chocolate chip ice cream". Underneath its still vanilla ice cream - its all about what you add to it that makes it different. |
| BlackAce |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 01:51:02
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I normally don't like the blend done in worlds like Iron Kingdoms (although in that setting, I am fine with it). I call that magi-tech, but I recall someone on this site using a term I had never heard before (and I liked better) - anyone?
Err, Technomancy? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 01:10:59
quote:
Markustay ... to burn a skill for something you may never encounter is just stupid ...
You may be right. Still, sometimes a skill (like, say, Disarm Nuclear Warhead) is too critical too ignore, no matter how rarely encountered. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 00:41:45
Well, I figure in fantasy we have three different types - Super Science, Steampunk, and 'magi-tech'. Super Science I prefer just with the scify genre, but the other two I like in vbery specific settings, not in fantasy in-general. Since I like to run fairly generic worlds for D&D, I don't run worlds I like otherwise (like I said, Iron Kingdoms).
In novels anything goes, and so long as the writing is good Ill enjoy it. I guess I am just a 'traditionalist' when it comes to RPGs.
As for what skill to use, thats the whole problem . Spellcraft makes sense only because there is nothing else close, and to burn a skill for something you may never encounter is just stupid (if there were a 'super-science skill'). I suppose if you planned on using this flavor a lot in your games, you probably should create a specific skill.
Mechanika isn't the word I was looking for.. maybe it was technomancy (or something similar?) Anyhow, if I do decide to add a little clockwork/steampunk to my Realms, I will probably borrow 'bodging' from Iron kingdoms - those rules are pretty cool. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 19:23:22
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Was reading through the stuff in the back of the (PF) Inner Sea Guide again last night.
In order to 'investigate' (figure-out how to use a found item) the Super-Science of Numeria one should use a spellcraft check, just as if they were investigating a new magical device. 
Really? And thats why I don't like mixing (high) tech and magic in my games. Obviously magic-users would be better at tech then everyone else, which is usually the exact opposite of how I see it portrayed (that science and magic don't mix well). I personally prefer magic and tech interfere with each other, as it was in the excellent (and oft-overlooked) video game Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. I normally don't like the blend done in worlds like Iron Kingdoms (although in that setting, I am fine with it). I call that magi-tech, but I recall someone on this site using a term I had never heard before (and I liked better) - anyone?
Well, would you prefer using a new skill, limited to that one function? Spellcraft makes a certain amount of sense, since with both magic and Numerian tech -- which often mimics magic -- one is trying to manipulate unseen forces.
The magitech in the Iron Kingdoms is called mechanika. It's a generic term, used for pretty much everything from a +1 sword to the overly large (and difficult to take down!) Colossals (very big versions of the steam-powered robots used in combat and labor). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 17:47:45
Was reading through the stuff in the back of the (PF) Inner Sea Guide again last night.
In order to 'investigate' (figure-out how to use a found item) the Super-Science of Numeria one should use a spellcraft check, just as if they were investigating a new magical device.
Really? And thats why I don't like mixing (high) tech and magic in my games. Obviously magic-users would be better at tech then everyone else, which is usually the exact opposite of how I see it portrayed (that science and magic don't mix well). I personally prefer magic and tech interfere with each other, as it was in the excellent (and oft-overlooked) video game Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. I normally don't like the blend done in worlds like Iron Kingdoms (although in that setting, I am fine with it). I call that magi-tech, but I recall someone on this site using a term I had never heard before (and I liked better) - anyone? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 17:42:33
DISCLAIMER FOR THE FOLLOWING: I'm specifically mentioning these ideas (and the previous section) only for the "new 5E realms". The third edition and prior realms are on the "cusp" of beginning to achieve this kind of ability to work together. Then the spellplague happened and the world became "points of light" and much was lost. If 5th edition is say 50-100 years later, perhaps a lot of the unity is being recovered again such that technology can advance.
note on all of the above, I see most of these things in a non-mobile factory like setting. There may be a restaurant by the river that uses some basic pulleys to have "river driven fans", but people won't have such in their homes. There may be a building using steam power to clean raw cotton/wool, weave such on a loom into cloth, and then there be essentially a sweatshop full of people with really basic sewing machines. They may even have sewing machines that can work with leather, for saddle and armor making, etc... This would be a major industry in a large city however, and might even make the big differences between city X and city Y(i.e. Cotton in flow in such a "sewing city" make it different than a city whose technology plants work around making basic metal implements like nails). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 17:26:36
The extent I've actually used "tech" in the realms has been limited to gunpowder and firearms. When I was a lot younger, I did allow a pair of revolvers to come over from the mask of the red death campaign (modified to use smokepowder). However, I wouldn't have a problem with steamtech and mills (water or wind) being used for gear driven technology for things that repeat over and over. I'm thinking things like a hammer/spike that continually pounds, a saw that turns, fans that spin to circulate air, a wheel to turn a conveyor belt, a loom to make fabric, a spinning contraption to mix food, wash clothes, etc.. and similar repetitive/stuck in one place types of contraptions. I could also see steam pipes that are used to move water elsewhere (say a tall water tower, where it empties and cools back into water and has aqueducts from it to deliver water elsewhere).
In a place like Lantan, I wouldn't have a problem with basic batteries and electricity being developed. However, nothing like the electronic circuit should be developed. They just may have learned to to use electricity to make objects spin for instance, and in turn they can apply such to the clockwork type things already discussed. In doing so, they can make slightly more portable versions of things. Also, nothing even remotely like alternating current should be discovered, such that any use of electricity involves huge power cables, etc... There would also be the blatant electrical attack perspective of electricity as well (i.e. one might be able to make the equivalent of a nasty cattle prod... but it would be wired to a huge battery... one might be able to make the equivalent of an electric fence or an electrically trapped door). However, the generation of this electricity might come from unusual resources for us. Perhaps they have tanks of electric eels or other similar captured creatures/monsters. Nothing like light bulbs, telegraphs, etc.... should be possible, as the level of "wire network creation" required versus the amount of creatures that would destroy said construction are anathema to one another. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 03:39:49
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
What about building the equalivalent of Modern Tech out of Realms Magic? Like making Golem based Robot servants?
Hell's Gate, by David Weber and Linda Evans, has something interesting like that...
The series (which sadly, is still awaiting a third book) focuses on two different parallel Earths. Both of these Earths have discovered portals to other parallel Earths, which have always been free of human life. And then both societies encounter one another, on an Earth that's pretty far from either one's homeworld... And we don't find out who shot first, but someone did, and the fecal matter hits the ventilation mechanism.
One of the Earths has tech that's roughly similar to nineteenth century RW Earth -- reliable firearms, steam engines, trains. And pretty much everyone has some psychic ability, and these abilities are used to allow for things like instantaneous communications and a worldwide communications network (on their homeworld).
The other Earth has pretty standard fantasy tech -- armor, swords, dragons and griffons that they've engineered... But they have also made magical versions of artillery and computers. They've got magic-propelled ships, and they use dragons the same way we use aircraft -- including in ground attack roles or for troop transport.
It's obviously not Realms-specific, but since the Realms has both magic and psionics, both of those Earths can be used to inspire Realms versions of modern tech. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 00:40:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ateth Istarlin
As I recall, the supplement "Old Empires" stated that Mulhorand had steam-powered tech. used in agriculture, etc.
It's centred around the creation of the pressure engine and the employment of arcane items like stones of everburning. |
| BlackAce |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 20:49:17
I did have an idea for an enchanted, brass bound rune-slate, that with a special stylus, could store multiple pages of writing. Each page could be recalled by touching the stylus to the correct rune that would magically etch itself on the brass frame every time the writer filled a page.
Kinda had it mind for places where vellum and paper would deteriorate. Never got a chance to use it in game though. |
| Ateth Istarlin |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 19:20:59
As I recall, the supplement "Old Empires" stated that Mulhorand had steam-powered tech. used in agriculture, etc. |
| Quale |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 17:50:11
I love magic technology and we have a lot of 3rd party products that deal with it. That happens mostly in planar campaigns, where's a sect called the Teknists based on Clarke's laws. Toril is a backwater world, but there are exceptions, like artifacts from Imaskar, Raumathar, Halruaa, Netheril, or people like Trobriand, Flamefist, ibn Arvalas ... Steam is only important in places that are near quasielemental sources, otherwise magic is superior. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 09:12:27
Ha, I'd never really thought of Lantan as a Realms equivalent of, say, England during the "second" Industrial Revolution ... things like Newcomen steam engine/pumps were horribly inefficient, canals were used to move mountains of coal and iron, the abundance of ironwork foundries make the skies red at night and black in the day. My kinda place this Lantan, gotta replace those silly gnomes with nicely efficient orcs and rename it Mordor. |
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