| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 02:15:13
This is one of my favourite deities in D&D of all time! She has to be one of the most unique and unexpected deities in all of D&D space. My question is- how might I easily bring her into FR?
I've been thinking of having her just be there, and then make out a story line with her followers in a conflict with Sune and other such deities. What do you guys think?
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| 29 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| glitter |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 11:53:20
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
This is one of my favourite deities in D&D of all time! She has to be one of the most unique and unexpected deities in all of D&D space. My question is- how might I easily bring her into FR?
I've been thinking of having her just be there, and then make out a story line with her followers in a conflict with Sune and other such deities. What do you guys think?
Well, the relation with "good" churches is difficult to imagine since that deity break the paradigm of "only evil undead".
But as an obviously small religion, with limited followers, it can be used anywhere in the Realms without always a bunch of paladins on a seek and destroy mission.
One friend is very fond of that goddess in fact, and the DM can easily bring some morals conflicts with such neutral undead that may looks pleasant for players but remains difficult to cope with according to the characters played and of course, with the potential vilalge, close to a black and frightening tower with a "nice couple" of vampire" living there.
So I would say the main difficulty is for the DM, who must have a clear idea about potential interactions with the rest of the world. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 17 Mar 2012 : 17:18:14
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wouldn't make her an aspect of Sune, if it were me. 'Death' should be anathema to 'beauty' , IMHO.
Death can't be beautiful?
That whole evacuating the bowels tend to have a rather uglifying effect. |
| xaviera |
Posted - 17 Mar 2012 : 16:54:20
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Sharess during her imprisonment by Shar
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - but I am not seeing them so much as 'opposites' (which you would then be correct - we have several examples of that, like the two aspects of Tyche), but rather, just related in some strange, creepy fashion. A 'love of death' is far stretch from love & beauty - its more of a 'fetish thing' (which is why she would work well as an aspect of Sharess).
I was going to say quite vehemently that I don't think Evening Glory could be Sharess or related to her, but now I'm having second thoughts. My own take on Sharess and undeath is as follows:
"Those [liches or baelnorns] who elect to remain [after death] out of a sense of duty or obligation and who do not do evil should perhaps be pitied, for by binding themselves to a dead shell have cut themselves off from many of the joys that life affords. I would prefer a short life full of pleasures than an eternity of half-pleasures, and would be tormented knowing that I could not experience the entirety of what the world has to offer. What good, after all, is eternal life if you can't have any fun?"
On the other hand, I can see Sharess, during her time as one of the Maidens of the Forbidden Fruit, getting into some really kinky, debased, hardcore and excessive stuff. While Shar herself isn't undead and probably doesn't have much to do with them, if she had managed to make Sharess into some sort of drugged-out emo-goth type then the latter might even turn undead purely out of sheer despair, in effect making her 'living death' under Shar a literal reality.
Whether or not Evening Glory as an aspect of Sharess would continue to exist after the latter is returned to life and beauty by Sune through the action of the waters of the Evergold is an open question, but I expect that phase of her existence could at least be a dirty secret (a 'skeleton in her closet', as it were) that Sharess might very well want put to rest once and for all.
Certainly this approach would be interesting in terms of fostering secret sects and cults for the players to interact with. If you're playing pre-4e and Sharess is only a demi-power (something I disagree with  ), Evening Glory would still be another step down the ladder of divinity, which doesn't give her a lot of power. For EG to avoid detection by Sharess she'd probably have to encourage her followers to be fanatically felicidal, for one thing (which wouldn't help matters between them). Or if EG's followers exist within Sharess's church they might have to be very rigid in the circumstances under which they express their 'demented lusts' - a control that is rather at odds with how the Princess of Passion's follower's usually behave. One could argue that they'd probably be borderline insane. Those with Sharran leanings might encourage EG's followers as a way of luring them back to Shar herself.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Leave her separate, she works better that way. She could just be an ascended mortal (demi-power/saint/exarch), under Sune's command (who may or may not be trying undermine Sune's church).
Or you can go with this. 
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| TBeholder |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 12:32:58
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Evening Glory has given DMs in the past a lot of trouble. They're too used to undead being evil.
What, in Realms? Weird. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 07:02:04
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Shadowflame
I read a description like that and go 'It's a goddess of necrophilia? Riiiiiiight...'
That's pretty much what I thought as well. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 20:57:27
Death isn't even an ending.
Its just another 'gate' people step through. 
{from a D&D perspective, of course} |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 15:37:55
Evening Glory has given DMs in the past a lot of trouble. They're too used to undead being evil. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 15:04:18
Death itself is neither beautiful nor ugly. It's the mere moments, the closest ones, that one experiences before his death that define its beauty or ugliness. Definition by association. Hardly accurate, but most people can't help themselves but think that way. |
| Eldacar |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 13:56:50
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Most people consider death as the untimely end of life. [So much more to do, but opportunities are crushed as Death comes knocking on the door.] Thus, they hardly think of death in the positive light. However, for people who died a "heroic" death (saving a damsel in distress, serving his patron deity, defending a village from orcs, etc.), and for those who've lived long enough and crave eternal rest, death can be that exactly---beautiful.
I don't know. I think there can be a whole range of emotions regarding death. By and large, I tend to think of it as a natural ending, one way or the other. That might just be me, though. And I'm certainly influenced by figures like Discworld's Death, Death of the Endless, or even Kelemvor (as he eventually came to treat it in 3E, anyway).
"You lived what anybody gets. You got a lifetime."
One way or the other, is death any more than just the inevitable next step? How can it really be ugly?
(Apologies if this goes into maudlin philosophy somewhat.) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 10:25:30
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wouldn't make her an aspect of Sune, if it were me. 'Death' should be anathema to 'beauty' , IMHO.
Death can't be beautiful?
Most people consider death as the untimely end of life. [So much more to do, but opportunities are crushed as Death comes knocking on the door.] Thus, they hardly think of death in the positive light. However, for people who died a "heroic" death (saving a damsel in distress, serving his patron deity, defending a village from orcs, etc.), and for those who've lived long enough and crave eternal rest, death can be that exactly---beautiful. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 10:21:00
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
That is one scary, creepy aspect of Sune.
Why? Not everyone who likes a vampire have to resemble, ahem, hardcore Twilight fans.
quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I'd introduce her to the Realms as a faith mostly ran by "beautiful" undead, you know the kind that look mostly human, but there's something off about them when you see them? That kind. This faith could believe that the state of undeath is the next natural evolution in humanity, much like how the Borg Queen on TNG felt the Borg were an improvement upon the weakness of the flesh.
Err... What's point to disneyify such a twisty concept to the point where already existing Velsharoon fits much better? |
| Eldacar |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 01:57:42
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wouldn't make her an aspect of Sune, if it were me. 'Death' should be anathema to 'beauty' , IMHO.
Death can't be beautiful? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 14:39:43
I have my own (very long and convoluted) theories about Sharess/Baast.
@Dennis - but I am not seeing them so much as 'opposites' (which you would then be correct - we have several examples of that, like the two aspects of Tyche), but rather, just related in some strange, creepy fashion. A 'love of death' is far stretch from love & beauty - its more of a 'fetish thing' (which is why she would work well as an aspect of Sharess).
I will have to (mentally, since I don't have my old notes) go over my theories regarding Sharess/Baast again - I have her pegged as an ever-evolving primal 'beast Lord' (similar to an archfey), that got enmeshed in the first godwar, and "its been a long, bumpy ride" ever since. The 'Evening Glory' thing fits canon Sharess, but doesn't mesh so well with my own theories. |
| Quale |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 14:11:23
Sharess during her imprisonment by Shar |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 04:19:21
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wouldn't make her an aspect of Sune, if it were me. 'Death' should be anathema to 'beauty' , IMHO.
Aspects can be opposites. There's a theory that Shar and Selune are aspects of one deity who, as part of her contingency, split her essence and became two separate entities. Going by that line of reasoning, one can say Evening Glory could well be Sune's aspect, or her long lost twin. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 16:21:48
I wouldn't make her an aspect of Sune, if it were me. 'Death' should be anathema to 'beauty' , IMHO.
Which is why I think this goddess is so cool - She breaks the mold. Leave her separate, she works better that way. She could just be an ascended mortal (demi-power/saint/exarch), under Sune's command (who may or may not be trying undermine Sune's church).
In other words, it should work (IMO) similar to how Velsharoon 'serves' Mystra.
Thanks for bringing this deity to my attention - she is uber kewl (and creepy). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 14:49:41
LOL, I can see her fitting in well as a secondary god on the isle of the necromancer kings.... but I also don't think Thasmudyan would like her much. |
| Lady Shadowflame |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 12:50:39
I read a description like that and go 'It's a goddess of necrophilia? Riiiiiiight...' |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 12:00:48
Is this a canonical goddess cause I have yet to come across any mention of her. Any idea where one might read up on her a bit more? |
| Varl |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 22:52:46
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Any ideas as to how to introduce her to the Realms and how to start off the feud would be much appreciated. I have some ideas floating around in my head, but I want to see if there are any more that I could use as inspiration.
Evening Glory sounds like a cross between Sune and Ilmater/Issek of the Jug, beauty and suffering intertwined.
I'd introduce her to the Realms as a faith mostly ran by "beautiful" undead, you know the kind that look mostly human, but there's something off about them when you see them? That kind. This faith could believe that the state of undeath is the next natural evolution in humanity, much like how the Borg Queen on TNG felt the Borg were an improvement upon the weakness of the flesh. They might enjoy turning Sunites and Lathanderites into prettier beings, helping them along with their physical augmentations into undeath. I like the excommunicated Sunites idea. A segment of the Sunite faith dedicated to achieving perfection through the beauty and longevity of undeath.
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| Bakra |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 22:04:08
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
I hate aspects and never use them. I'm thinking about starting a conflict between Evening Glory and Sune themselves, even. I'm just not sure as to how I'm going to go about it at first.
Any ideas as to how to introduce her to the Realms and how to start off the feud would be much appreciated. I have some ideas floating around in my head, but I want to see if there are any more that I could use as inspiration.
Heretics of Sune who were excommunicated from the church.
Or they haven't been discovered yet and still exist within Sune’s church.
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| Fellfire |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 21:50:00
Very creepy. Kind of a Twilight teenage angst/eternal love flavor. And those holes in her hands? Wtf? Get away from me. |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 21:16:37
I hate aspects and never use them. I'm thinking about starting a conflict between Evening Glory and Sune themselves, even. I'm just not sure as to how I'm going to go about it at first.
Any ideas as to how to introduce her to the Realms and how to start off the feud would be much appreciated. I have some ideas floating around in my head, but I want to see if there are any more that I could use as inspiration. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 21:09:04
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
If as a deity, I'd use her as an aspect of Sune instead of a new deity.
That is one scary, creepy aspect of Sune. |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 21:01:35
If as a deity, I'd use her as an aspect of Sune instead of a new deity. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 13:12:02
I might use her as a NPC instead of a goddess in my Realms. Unique motivations like Evening Glory's are perfect for attributing to recurring characters. Perhaps as one of the Masked Lords of Waterdeep? |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 02:59:32
Yep, that is the sourcebook she is from.
quote:
Evening Glory teaches that love need not ever die. Instead,
love may go on indefinitely, if the body’s remains are properly
preserved. The deity of love at any price, Evening Glory
appears as an exquisitely preserved woman with
ice-white (almost translucent) fl esh and platinumwhite,
neck-length hair. She has eyes of baby blue,
with lips, fi ngernails, and toenails the same
color. She is fl awless, despite (or because of)
her necrotic chill. Disdaining simple nudity,
the Deathless Beauty prefers extravagant,
backless gowns. A heart-shaped, oddly alluring
hole completely pierces the palm of each
of her bloodless hands. Evening Glory’s symbol is
an open hand, pierced through the palm with a heartshaped
hole.
The Eternal Lover appeals strongly to immortality
seekers, lovers, and undead. Still, anyone who has loved
and lost, or knows love and fears its end, is a potential worshiper
of Evening Glory. Most who worship her are undead, or soon
become undead after worshiping her for a time. Many of her
followers would rather welcome the followers of other faiths,
but it is hard to welcome members of faiths that believe undeath
must be eradicated.
Evening Glory teaches that desire is all that matters, and the
desire for the love of another should never be allowed to fail
through the depredations of age. Those whose love transcends
life should seek life everlasting through the grace of undeath.
The perfect preservation may freeze love forever. While the resurrection
of tragically slain lovers may do for some, nothing can
stay old age’s imperious fi nal call—nothing but the embrace of
undeath.
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| Fellfire |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 02:52:53
I've never heard of her either. From what I can determine she debuted in Libris Mortis.
edit: Confirmed. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 02:44:49
Hmm. Not a deity I'm familiar with. Can you give me a source, so I can go read up on her? |
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