| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Dec 2011 : 15:11:45
Several fictional characters have the initials J.B.---Jason Bourne, James Bond, Jack Bauer, Jack Bristow, and of course, the Realms' Jarlaxle Baenre. Pure coincidence? Or is there some cosmic conspiracy behind the replications of these initials?  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 09:59:22
'Twas a good film. Any film that has Charlize Theron on it is either good or great, never bad nor awful. For me, of course. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 09:22:14
Ah, Aeon Flux. Awesome spandex, awful movie. At least it had a few neato ideas worthy of adapting into D&D. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 07:55:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfhound75
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But what about Jessica Biel?
Not sure about the spy thing but we know she looks damned good with a blade and a bow....
...and she hunts vampires.
Could be the makings of a mini adventure there.
I'm not sure if it's due to stereotyping or whatever, but if you notice, there are very few female spies in films, and most of them are supporting characters (save Aeon Flux, Fiona Birch, and Violet Song Jat Shariff ). |
| Wolfhound75 |
Posted - 22 Dec 2011 : 21:45:24
It's five o'clock somewhere, right?
What about Jim Beam and Jimmy Buffett?
And because it is uncommonly slow at work today, I had a chance to find this interesting, if somewhat banal, discussion that parallels this one.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.62475-James-Bond-Jack-Bauer-Jason-Bourne-Whats-with-the-JBs
You might want to arm yourself with an espresso +3 before wading into this one. Some of the replies are base at best. I skipped them in favor of the wittier responses.
Good Hunting!
Edit: Added the link for another similar post. |
| Wolfhound75 |
Posted - 22 Dec 2011 : 21:00:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But what about Jessica Biel?
Not sure about the spy thing but we know she looks damned good with a blade and a bow....
...and she hunts vampires.
Could be the makings of a mini adventure there. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 22 Dec 2011 : 07:44:30
I don't know him. And I'm lazy to wiki him. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 23:33:32
Dennis, I should smack yyou with a newspaper- you forgot Jim Belushi! (You know, the other one?) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 05:27:10
There are actually A LOT of JB's in the world of entertainment: Jonas Brothers, J.B. Gaynor, J.B. Smoove, J.B. Lenoir, J.B. Rogers, Jim Boeheim, James Blunt, James Blake, Jason Bateman, John Belushi, Jessica Biel, Joe Buck, Jake Burton, Jack Benny, John Boehner, Joe Biden, Jim Brown, Josh Brolin, Jeff Bridges, and Johnny Bepp. JB is like the John Smith (John Bith) of the celebrities' world. Who among them can be a good superspy? I'd wager Jonas Brothers. No spy has ever made Ursula's song sound...childish. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 05:13:26
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But what about Jessica Biel?
She can spy on me any time.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 05:03:25
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Justin Bieber could be a superspy?
Him and James Brown.
But what about Jessica Biel? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 01:46:27
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Justin Bieber could be a superspy?
 That's worse than seeing Jack Black play Jason Bourne. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 01:22:57
Justin Bieber could be a superspy? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 23:38:22
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ah-ha! Sage, that may be the very source I was thinking of for the post above! I'd kiss you, if you weren't in Aussie-land....
Hehe. Now, now, we don't want to cause the Lady K any kind of jealousy, eh? 
...
Seriously, though, the only reason I'm remembering this issue [correctly, I hope], is that it's one of my all-time favourite FF tales.
I'm looking through my digital archives of the early 60's issues now.
Shh... I won't tell if you won't..... 
Oooo! I like secrets. I'm too much like Thoth in that regard. *wink*
quote:
Kidding. I'm also eager to see whether you find that source you mentioned. I'd love to refresh my memory on that. I recall that Stan Lee went into quite some detail about his naming conventions. And it has helped me in coming up with names for some of my own characters- particularly those I created that live in the MU- like Parker's (future) son Hunter. (Whom I named to evoke the image his powers reflect- ie, he is a spider-powered mutant who LOOKS the part....)
I think it may have been the same issue with the images of the Marvel production stuff of the era. Do you remember that issue? It had nifty mid-60's images of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and practically everyone else working on a Marvel book at the time? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 23:03:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ah-ha! Sage, that may be the very source I was thinking of for the post above! I'd kiss you, if you weren't in Aussie-land....
Hehe. Now, now, we don't want to cause the Lady K any kind of jealousy, eh?
...
Seriously, though, the only reason I'm remembering this issue [correctly, I hope], is that it's one of my all-time favourite FF tales.
I'm looking through my digital archives of the early 60's issues now.
Shh... I won't tell if you won't.....
Kidding. I'm also eager to see whether you find that source you mentioned. I'd love to refresh my memory on that. I recall that Stan Lee went into quite some detail about his naming conventions. And it has helped me in coming up with names for some of my own characters- particularly those I created that live in the MU- like Parker's (future) son Hunter. (Whom I named to evoke the image his powers reflect- ie, he is a spider-powered mutant who LOOKS the part....) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 15:27:56
I heard a rumor that upon the conception of Mission Impossible, the protagonist's name was supposed to be Jake Blaze. But they thought having another JB would make the people associate the character with James Bond. Well, not that people would need another JB initials for them to associate spy/secret agent characters with James Bond.
---
Side note: Anyone watched MI4: Ghost Protocol? I think it's decent. Lots of action with a rather convincing plot. I'm not a Tom Cruise fan. (He's old, and looks like it.) But he's a good actor, and he played Ethan Hunt well.
One of the reasons I watched the movie is Jeremy Renner. I'm a great fan of the Bourne series. And having learned that Matt Damon is not going to be in the next film, The Bourne Legacy, I was very disappointed. Renner will replace him, though he'd be playing a different character, just in case Damon comes back. In MI4, Renner showed a good performance, almost good enough to steal the limelight from Cruise. So, maybe, just maybe, there's hope for the next Bourne film. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 16:03:13
Wow, somehow this post about a minute issue not worth fighting about turned into an actual "no, you're stupid!" argument. Huh.
Anyway, my post above comes largely out of the fact that "as a writer, that's what I would have done." Names, after all, have power, and alluding to a concept or character you want to reflect imbues your character with some of that power as well. Also, in general, writers tend to weave in allusions to other works the better to offer homages to other writers. I myself am totally guilty of both of these (Downshadow alone contains homages to Ed, Elaine, Bob, Paul, Steven, James Davis, Jess Lebow, and so on).
Cheers |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 14:13:26
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In my vocabulary, all the names mentioned above are spies.
Since that's what the creator called James Bond, that's probably fine. Just be aware that what they do has very little to do with what real spies do.
You are correct and wrong at the same time. I would love to elaborate on this further, but such attempt would shed too much light on the nature of my work.
Just be careful in your assumptions, especially if you yourself do not engage in espionage. Or do you? |
| Icelander |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 14:02:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In my vocabulary, all the names mentioned above are spies.
Since that's what the creator called James Bond, that's probably fine. Just be aware that what they do has very little to do with what real spies do.
This is similar to how the characters in many bad action movies are called 'cops', but do not actually do anything that real cops do. |
| Wolfhound75 |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 14:02:07
Not to add fuel to the fire but, if you remember, JamesBond was not originally "Licensed to Kill" though he did engage in that sort of activity in defense of his person.
All semantics aside, it's safe to say that a 'spy' is someone, who according to common usage, engages in espionage, not merely the gathering of information (LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage). The key points being the information gathered is considered secret and that the gathering is inherently clandestine in nature. The target of that espionage I will leave open for discussion but as someone pointed out, it could be against government entities, corporate entities, or even political enemies. Most organized intelligence agencies exist primarily for the gathering of information. There are, however, several stark examples of assassin teams also being in the employ of several notable and notorious government affiliated intelligence agencies. These groups being the arm that engages in what is often known as 'wet work' by those familiar with the jargon.
Suffice it to say, simply gathering information, which I would consider could be done overtly does not make one a spy by use of the common definition. If that were the case, we are all collaborating to gather information here at Candlekeep which makes us an organized spy ring.
Food for thought....
Good Hunting!
edit: added link |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 13:30:03
In my vocabulary, all the names mentioned above are spies. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 09:21:08
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I see a spy as being someone who works for a government and whose primary mission is either gathering intelligence and/or sabotaging enemy plans, only concentrating on threats to his government, and doing it all without getting caught. Bond does fit into that category...
That's good for you.
However, that is nonsense both etymologically and according to usage. A spy is a spy whether he is employed by a private company, a freelancer or in government service. In fact, the word 'spy' had been in use for centuries before organised government intelligence agencies were ever thought of. The root of the word lies in the Indo-European 'spek-', to look or to see. If you were to say that you defined spy as someone who gathered intelligence, you would be closer to the meaning of the term.
In any case, James Bond, Jason Bourne and Jarlaxle Baenre all have more or less the same job. They are not spies in any real sense, they are covert operators. They do not gather information except as an incidental sideline, they mostly do killing people and breaking stuff. They are supposed to do it in secret, but, ironically, the one living in the fantasy world and whom you are most hesistant about calling a 'spy' is the one who is most successful at secrecy. |
| Thauramarth |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 08:42:26
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
Well you know, sometimes there is a think called chance is like asking why all of Stan Lee's characters have the same initials, Peter Parker, Stephen Strange, Matt Murdock, Bruce Banner, Reed Richards, John Jonnah Jameson Junior.....
Michael Moorcock occasionnally did this: Jerry Cornelius, Jerry Cornell, Jehamiah Cohnalias, Jhary-a-Conel, Lord Jagged of Canaria and even (although reversed) Corum Jhalen Irsei.
But, then again, most of those guys were supposed to be the same guy anyway  . |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 02:56:43
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ah-ha! Sage, that may be the very source I was thinking of for the post above! I'd kiss you, if you weren't in Aussie-land....
Hehe. Now, now, we don't want to cause the Lady K any kind of jealousy, eh?
...
Seriously, though, the only reason I'm remembering this issue [correctly, I hope], is that it's one of my all-time favourite FF tales.
I'm looking through my digital archives of the early 60's issues now. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 02:47:29
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7_3xxQXgFs
That is part of the reason.
Link does not work. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 02:44:35
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I suspect the J.B. for spy characters isn't a coincidence, all of them being a subtle homage to James Bond. Jarlaxle is sort of a spy and runs a sort-of spy organization, so his name could indeed be the same sort of homage.
Maybe that's the connection you're looking for?
Cheers
I suspect the opposite, myself. I'm inclined to think it's a coincidence.
Particularly with Jason Bourne... In the books, David Webb assumed the name Jason Bourne, after executing the original one for being a traitor and trying to get his companions killed. The name was selected to capitalize on and add to the rep held by the original Bourne.
Perhaps. But let's remember that only Carlos was based on a real person's name, and to some extent, personality. David Webb/Cain/Jason Bourne was purely Ludlum's creation. And who's to say he didn't have James Bond in mind when he brainstormed for a protagonist's name in his books? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 02:40:21
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
A spy who was playing both sides. Gee, who does that sound like....?
Don't forget Sydney Bristow. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 02:36:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7_3xxQXgFs
That is part of the reason. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 00:54:53
Not all "spies' are sponsored by a government- some are free-lance. As you siad, in it for the benefit to their own agendas. Jarl certainly fits that mold. Matta Hari comes to mind. A spy who was playing both sides. Gee, who does that sound like....? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 00:18:23
We are most fortunate in not having to endure Jrizzt Bo'urden, Jelamont Banthul, Jelminster, Banshoon, Jerevis Bale, Jrasek Biven, and Jzass Bam. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 00:13:38
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Isn't that really what Bond himself was? "spy" seems to be the generic term for any sort of "hush-hush" killer/infiltrator/secret ops type of character. And Jarlaxle has done some of those at one point or another. Working for one House while secretly taking orders from another, etc....
I see a spy as being someone who works for a government and whose primary mission is either gathering intelligence and/or sabotaging enemy plans, only concentrating on threats to his government, and doing it all without getting caught. Bond does fit into that category...
But Jarlaxle is just in it for himself -- he doesn't really do infiltration, and he's not about gathering intelligence, as much as he just sells his troops to whoever pays the most, with the proviso that this could change at a moment's notice. If he does gather intelligence, it's for his own purposes -- mainly to know what angle to play to best benefit himself. He can do these things for a particular House, but he's just as likely to do the same thing for their rivals next week.
Jarlaxle does little that does not benefit or amuse Jarlaxle. He is the quintessential mercenary.
And Bourne's only objective was Carlos the Jackal. It was a single, special mission. All intelligence gathered, all plans sabotaged, it was all towards that one single goal. |
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