| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 01:31:05
Being elected zulkir does not only mean one is politically influential, but most importantly, it also means he or she is magically competent and powerful. Ruling Thay is not easy, especially when you have to always watch your back for assassins and envious rivals.
The zulkirs, past and present, have different personalities that in one way or another appeal to us. Their common traits, I believe, are boundless selfishness, unflagging haughtiness, and formidable power. As often as not, those zulkirs that we like most either mirror our personality or possess one that is opposite our own. And sometimes, neither of the two---we simply find them interesting.
So, who is your favorite zulkir and why?
Some personages below might be unfamiliar to you as they did not appear in any novels. Hence, I include descriptions, which are all by Ed.
Iyrith Telgahlagar (Enchantment): described as a darkly handsome, bearded man who was urbane, soft-spoken, and a master strategist and diplomat, the most dominant of the zulkirs through his skilled forging of alliances with his fellow zulkirs and among the tharchions and tharchionesses; ruthless in slaying rivals who act against him, often through spells delivered by bats that fly under his direction; once described by a Red Wizard as “Asmodeus among us,” and probably the closest of any individual to being the true ruler of Thay, at the time.
Hahlomede Teeos (Abjuration): known as “Blackwyrm” for his everpresent tattered black robes and cloaks, that rendered him immune to dragon attacks and made dragons actively avoid him, Teeos loved to act mysterious and to track down lost treasures, old magics, and deceptions, this last sort of hunting quickly making him very unpopular with many Thayans; he became the feared, tireless, and increasingly hated “investigator” of the First Zulkirate.
Dlueae Sharshyndree (Evocation): the first female zulkir, Dlueae [pronounced “Dul-LOO-ay”] was a curvaceous woman with a melodious voice and alluring walk—who also had a coarse-featured and mannish face; she “had to shave like a man” and had acquired several disfiguring facial scars in her youthful adventuring career, and as a result customarily hid her face behind full head masks, which she sometimes augmented with a warrior’s battle-helm; a bold and calm battle-leader and a good tactician, she served Thay well in warfare and built ever-increasing influence over her fellow zulkirs, both by taking them as lovers and befriending them with aid and assistance for their personal projects, and by often stating and refining successful policies for Thay that she got her fellow zulkirs to support (and that they therefore took pride in); a mediator and peacemaker among her fellow zulkirs. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 10:36:06
Anyone think Maligor survived and was rebuilding his power after Red Magic? While he's not my favorite Red Wizard, the art of him is my favorite red wizard art. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 13:13:35
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
the history Ed has provided needs to be read in a way that understands that the "bitter power struggle" he mentions after the fall of Thayd, reflects centuries of strife between covert mage cabals in present-day Thay, not occurring immediately - with Escalthar as the first "ustakir" - and secretly Azuth bringing wizardly order to the spell chaos of newly-formed Thay.
-- George Krashos
I'd say i can be read that way - but I think it is more interesting if Escalthar is not Azuth. Instead, its much more interesting for him to be another mighty mage who's out and about and either has ties to the gods of magic OR wants people to think Azuth had a hand it things and so left a little evidence in this or that history (very much like Khelben did in the Blackstaff novel) suggesting he was Azuth.
One of the things that bothered me the most in the last couple editions is that all Eds little wink wink hints - the cornerstone of Ed's style - were changed by the newer writers into THIS IS NOW WRITTEN IN STONE statements. This started near the end of 2nd Edition and ran right up into 4th. Especially since many of these ware the least interesting interpretation of the hints AND it often caused all the problems we have with canon conflicting with canon conflicting with the grand history conflicting with this or that article from Dungeon or Dragon.
Yeah, I'd like this as well (that he not become Azuth), after some thinking on it. I do like the idea that he becomes the "Chairmaster" which is just a "referee" with no real political power, and he only acts to make Zulkirate Council meetings go smoothly. Not sure if we can fit it into it timeframe wise, but what if he impresses Azuth enough that he becomes the magister (or he actually uses his "everlasting curse" on an existing magister without realizing who they are and they can't remove it)... and that's why he disappears. There would obviously be an announcement from all temples of Azuth that a new magister is chosen. He can't very well be the magister and sit in Thay... that's like putting a target on his head. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 04:56:08
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
the history Ed has provided needs to be read in a way that understands that the "bitter power struggle" he mentions after the fall of Thayd, reflects centuries of strife between covert mage cabals in present-day Thay, not occurring immediately - with Escalthar as the first "ustakir" - and secretly Azuth bringing wizardly order to the spell chaos of newly-formed Thay.
-- George Krashos
I'd say i can be read that way - but I think it is more interesting if Escalthar is not Azuth. Instead, its much more interesting for him to be another mighty mage who's out and about and either has ties to the gods of magic OR wants people to think Azuth had a hand it things and so left a little evidence in this or that history (very much like Khelben did in the Blackstaff novel) suggesting he was Azuth.
One of the things that bothered me the most in the last couple editions is that all Eds little wink wink hints - the cornerstone of Ed's style - were changed by the newer writers into THIS IS NOW WRITTEN IN STONE statements. This started near the end of 2nd Edition and ran right up into 4th. Especially since many of these ware the least interesting interpretation of the hints AND it often caused all the problems we have with canon conflicting with canon conflicting with the grand history conflicting with this or that article from Dungeon or Dragon. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 02:38:33
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Okie dokie, I think you guys should be thinking in terms of small "z" zulkirs and capital "Z" zulkirs. When Thay is formed there are no capital "Z" zulkirs. They form afterward when the realm puts in place a formal system of government. Ythazz, Jorcmagdon and the rest are small "z" zulkirs who adopt that moniker when they rebel against Mulhorand, harking back to the first, great doomed rebellion of Thayd. In turn we know nothing about Ythazz et. al. They are likely the renegade Halruaans noted by Ed.
In addition, it should be noted that realmslore confirms that the capital "Z" zulkirs are not necessarily the most powerful wizards of that school of magic (save probably in regard to Szass Tam). Many of the more powerful small "z" zulkirs would have continued on doing their thing alongside the capital "Z" zulkirs of Thay, not wanting to rule directly but manipulating and retaining independence outside the formal constraints of power. In all that, the concept of Lynn Abbey's "Chairmaster" has to be incorporated (I term the that individual title as "ustakir" - in Mulhorandi, "kir" is master, and "usta" is chair; "zula" is a bastardized Mulhorandi word peculiar to the region of Thay meaning "trusted" or "loyal" - the Mulhorandi equivalent is "sul") and in my view, relates to a situation where Ythazz had to deal with a disparate group of conniving, fractious wizards following the defeat of Mulhorand.
He sought to retain sole power with his powerful cronies, culminating in civil war. He and his group were "defeated" (some like Ythazz linger still in altered forms) by Escalthar and his group - the history Ed has provided needs to be read in a way that understands that the "bitter power struggle" he mentions after the fall of Thayd, reflects centuries of strife between covert mage cabals in present-day Thay, not occurring immediately - with Escalthar as the first "ustakir" - and secretly Azuth bringing wizardly order to the spell chaos of newly-formed Thay. As to where a successor ustakir got the chairs in question, and the power to magically bind the capital "Z" zulkirs to respect that office, I'd look north to a hill in present-day Narfell and an accomodation with a certain ultralich ...
-- George Krashos
This is perhaps the first time someone has mentioned the "Chairmaster" concept to me that didn't make me want to retch. Escalthar as the "independent" referee between factions with little power would maybe work.
Hmmmm, a raid on Jiksidur during the formation of Thay wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd hate to involve Larloch himself though in the formation of Thay. I'd also maybe wonder what might be left in Jiksidur worth taking after so much time....
George, please come to the other thread... I want to try to contain this stuff there, so that a year from now when I'm hunting this stuff down again its easy to find. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 02:01:34
Okie dokie, I think you guys should be thinking in terms of small "z" zulkirs and capital "Z" zulkirs. When Thay is formed there are no capital "Z" zulkirs. They form afterward when the realm puts in place a formal system of government. Ythazz, Jorcmagdon and the rest are small "z" zulkirs who adopt that moniker when they rebel against Mulhorand, harking back to the first, great doomed rebellion of Thayd. In turn we know nothing about Ythazz et. al. They are likely the renegade Halruaans noted by Ed.
In addition, it should be noted that realmslore confirms that the capital "Z" zulkirs are not necessarily the most powerful wizards of that school of magic (save probably in regard to Szass Tam). Many of the more powerful small "z" zulkirs would have continued on doing their thing alongside the capital "Z" zulkirs of Thay, not wanting to rule directly but manipulating and retaining independence outside the formal constraints of power. In all that, the concept of Lynn Abbey's "Chairmaster" has to be incorporated (I term the that individual title as "ustakir" - in Mulhorandi, "kir" is master, and "usta" is chair; "zula" is a bastardized Mulhorandi word peculiar to the region of Thay meaning "trusted" or "loyal" - the Mulhorandi equivalent is "sul") and in my view, relates to a situation where Ythazz had to deal with a disparate group of conniving, fractious wizards following the defeat of Mulhorand.
He sought to retain sole power with his powerful cronies, culminating in civil war. He and his group were "defeated" (some like Ythazz linger still in altered forms) by Escalthar and his group - the history Ed has provided needs to be read in a way that understands that the "bitter power struggle" he mentions after the fall of Thayd, reflects centuries of strife between covert mage cabals in present-day Thay, not occurring immediately - with Escalthar as the first "ustakir" - and secretly Azuth bringing wizardly order to the spell chaos of newly-formed Thay. As to where a successor ustakir got the chairs in question, and the power to magically bind the capital "Z" zulkirs to respect that office, I'd look north to a hill in present-day Narfell and an accomodation with a certain ultralich ...
-- George Krashos |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 01:43:55
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
How about Ythazz and Escalthar arranged for the resurrection of Thayd because they needed a symbol that the common folk would fall behind.
I like this idea. I actually think Ythazz, Escalthar, and Velsharoon. My version of Velsharoon in 3.5e is non-specialized wizard/dread necromancer/binder with anima mage and ultimate magus, so I picture him having some involvement with releasing Thayd from the place where Vestiges go. I picture Ythazz having the knowledge of Thayd and his history, but not the knowledge of how to free him (otherwise he would have done it long ago). So, maybe Escalthar brings something else to the party? Maybe he has knowledge of the "Black Star" (which may be the artifact beneath Amruthar), and he helps use it in coordination with a binding ritual?
Hmmm, I'm going to take this conversation over to the other thread.... I'd like some input on this for improvement. |
| Zeromaru X |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 13:59:33
The one only Zulkir I'm familiar with is Szass Tam, so... I guess I'm going to vote for him. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 13:29:25
How about Ythazz and Escalthar arranged for the resurrection of Thayd because they needed a symbol that the common folk would fall behind. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 13:21:08
Yep - that is a perfect summary of the problems I was referring to - very complete :)... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 13:06:58
Well, the problem is one that you and I and all of us are trying to fix multiple different "sets" of the formation of the Zulkirate and the revolution. Basically, Ed wrote up Halruaa and dropped that there were some exiles from Halruaa that were a founding force of the red wizards (even though they weren't Mulan). Another person wrote up Dreams of the Red Wizards and name dropped Jorgmacdon as the first Zulkir of Conjuration AND that it was a Mulan uprising (with no mention of Halruaans). Then Scott Bennie writes up Old Empires and invents Thayd, hinting that Thay was named in homage of Thayd.
However, Ed then wrote up the one we're talking about with a guy named Escalthar and saying that Thayd was involved with the creation of Thay and gave it out at GenCon, and in it he writes up Tlantros Tulhoond as the first Zulkir of Conjuration in the "First Zulkirate", in contradiction to Dreams of the Red Wizards. Ok, so then we have to adjust and say as a result that Jorgmacdon was one of these "lieutenants" of Thayd before there was a Zulkirate .
By the way, for those who might be say from later editions and wanting to follow along, you can find that post about the GenCon Handout from the Hooded one here:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13186&whichpage=80
Then along comes someone else who wrote up Spellbound, and he not only DOESN'T mention Thayd, but he invented Ythazz Buvaar, who apparently in the last four centuries became a demilich (implying he had been a lich for a long time prior to that). Also, this guy is the "lynchpin" to Thay's formation right? Why'd he name the country after some two thousand year old Theurgist Adept? Alright, so what do we do with this? Well, we can say that Ythazz was a Theurgist Adept and is a two thousand year old lich now (maybe he was a lower rung lieutenant of Thayd's back then). We can't have Thayd riding Ythazz, because Ythazz is undead himself though. Also, where has Thayd been? This is where I had Thayd having become a vestige upon his death in my homebrew. SOMEONE or SOME GROUP found and released a weakened Thayd, taking on his soul and letting him ride them. Who... ahhh, work through that later, but definitely I would think have Ythazz Buvaar in that group.
Then comes an entry in the 3e Shining South which cements Velsharoon as a Haluraan and fighting in the skies against another wizard prior to the formation of Thay. Thus, it can be assumed that that long ago link of Halruaa to the formation of Thay must have some involvement with Velsharoon and likely some compatriots of his which are not documented. What to do with this? Well, what I've documented before was to have had Ythazz Buvaar entrapped in his phylactery for a while and getting freed by Velsharoon.
Then along comes the author of Red Gold, and they do some visions of the past, and they show Ythazz Buvaar . I will give him props, because he DOES mention Jorgmacdon, but has him playing second fiddle to Ythazz in the summoning (personally, don't agree with... the red wizard uprising wasn't a one man show... he did one thing and one thing well, so why steal Jorgmacdon's thunder... share the wealth... but hey, at least he REMEMBERED the guy)
From Dreams of the Red Wizards about Jorgmacdon
Mapping the city is a problem because it is built in the form of an immense glyph. This is actually the symbol that keeps the demon prince Eltab imprisoned and available to the Red Wizards. This was a mighty magic devised by Jorgmacdon, the first Zulkir of the School of Conjuration, and his family is still powerful in the country, even though it has not produced anyone to match him since that time
By the way, I think I may take a look at a history of Ythazz Buvaar I wrote up about 6 years ago and see if I can make some additions that maybe take into account some of the things I didn't learn until later (for instance, I never knew about the GenCon handout until about 3 years ago when I read it here, which means despite my rapacious love of Thay, some of the stuff I'm still having to adjust) |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 06:02:32
There were zulkirs before there were zulkirs. Thayd's trusted lieutenants had that title. When the Red Wizards formed and after some time, they adopted that title and type of organization also.
-- George Krashos |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 14:45:16
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The bigger question would be what happened to the missing 2000 years there... since the Grand History does not come anywhere close to sinking up with these years.
Are you talking about Thayd? At the time of the Thayan revolution, he was dead (akin to something like a Suel Lich riding bodies and burning them out). I'd imagine that he found some means to enter some kind of magic "phylactery" for a while there (maybe a living body in stasis?), before Ythazz Buvarr freed him (note, Ythazz freeing him isn't canon, but I've always thought Ythazz may have been a lesser theurgist adept who escaped and became a lich). By the way, I've vascillated over time between Thayd being a Suel Lich or a vestige, and it just now occurs to me that maybe he was both. Maybe at some point he "died" as a Suel Lich (let's call it Imaskari Lich) and he was this kind of lich when he was a theurgist adept, but he then became a vestige (which I actually have a story written up for that). At some point, Ythazz "rescues" him from the places where vestiges go (maybe from the wells of darkness), but he's still an "Imaskari Lich" and burning through bodies. Then finally, at some point after the revolution, he's betrayed, he can't jump bodies, and he becomes a vestige again. This makes the possibility of "warlocks" of Thayd an interesting possibility.
Yes. Specifically Ed stated:
It was only after the death of Thayd that their [the Zulkir's] numbers became set, and linked to specific “schools” of wizardry.
To me, this means he was alive right up to about 1030 DR. This is in direct contradiction to the Grand History which states he was executed in -1081 DR. And not the usual kind of discrepancy of a couple years or even a century or so. That is a gap of 2111 years.
While it is possible he was undead this entire time AND founded his nation while undead, that is a pretty big oversight in writing to never say it anywhere.
Maybe there were 2 Thayds the latter taking the earlier one's name... but then again someone should have said so. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 14:24:38
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Read it again. In that article it states that there were Zulkirs before the group of Zulkirs called the first Zulkirate and appointed during the Black Star Council. Some or all of these were dead by the time Thayd became undead (it talks about the numbers of Zulkirs changing as a result of deaths). These pre-Zulkirate Zulkirs are not named; it is possible that Ythazz was one of them or that he was merely one of the appointees. The language used makes this debatable.
You are right in that aspect, and I get where you're going now. Yes, there were the "thugs of Thayd"... many of whom weren't even mages. They were in essence the first Tharchions, but called Zulkirs. I could buy Escalthar in THAT role. Just to note, Jorgmacdon was one of those as well I believe, as I BELIEVE Ed wrote up a "first conjuration zulkir" in his list in this article.
Yeah, I was likening them to the Magelords - a loosely assembled group who were just there for power and only held in check by the power of their leader. Seems apt. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 13:26:55
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The bigger question would be what happened to the missing 2000 years there... since the Grand History does not come anywhere close to sinking up with these years.
Are you talking about Thayd? At the time of the Thayan revolution, he was dead (akin to something like a Suel Lich riding bodies and burning them out). I'd imagine that he found some means to enter some kind of magic "phylactery" for a while there (maybe a living body in stasis?), before Ythazz Buvarr freed him (note, Ythazz freeing him isn't canon, but I've always thought Ythazz may have been a lesser theurgist adept who escaped and became a lich). By the way, I've vascillated over time between Thayd being a Suel Lich or a vestige, and it just now occurs to me that maybe he was both. Maybe at some point he "died" as a Suel Lich (let's call it Imaskari Lich) and he was this kind of lich when he was a theurgist adept, but he then became a vestige (which I actually have a story written up for that). At some point, Ythazz "rescues" him from the places where vestiges go (maybe from the wells of darkness), but he's still an "Imaskari Lich" and burning through bodies. Then finally, at some point after the revolution, he's betrayed, he can't jump bodies, and he becomes a vestige again. This makes the possibility of "warlocks" of Thayd an interesting possibility. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 13:17:58
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Read it again. In that article it states that there were Zulkirs before the group of Zulkirs called the first Zulkirate and appointed during the Black Star Council. Some or all of these were dead by the time Thayd became undead (it talks about the numbers of Zulkirs changing as a result of deaths). These pre-Zulkirate Zulkirs are not named; it is possible that Ythazz was one of them or that he was merely one of the appointees. The language used makes this debatable.
You are right in that aspect, and I get where you're going now. Yes, there were the "thugs of Thayd"... many of whom weren't even mages. They were in essence the first Tharchions, but called Zulkirs. I could buy Escalthar in THAT role. Just to note, Jorgmacdon was one of those as well I believe, as I BELIEVE Ed wrote up a "first conjuration zulkir" in his list in this article. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 03:55:37
The bigger question would be what happened to the missing 2000 years there... since the Grand History does not come anywhere close to sinking up with these years. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 03:46:11
Read it again. In that article it states that there were Zulkirs before the group of Zulkirs called the first Zulkirate and appointed during the Black Star Council. Some or all of these were dead by the time Thayd became undead (it talks about the numbers of Zulkirs changing as a result of deaths). These pre-Zulkirate Zulkirs are not named; it is possible that Ythazz was one of them or that he was merely one of the appointees. The language used makes this debatable. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 02:35:14
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
To respond to the poll, I'd argue that Escalthar is clearly the best. :) And he could still be alive, because "there are many rumors and fear-whispered tales, down the years since, of his being seen by dying Red Wizards or watching crucial events in the unfolding governance of Thay."
Ah, but Escalthar "the Black Star" was never a Zulkir.... he just forced the Zulkirate to meet and form.
I don' think that is correct. The Zulkirs existed as supporters of Thayd, before he became undead - basically it was kind of a Mage-Lords of Athalantar system. My belief is that Escalthar was among THESE Zulkirs. After Thayd passed on, "the Black Star" beat the rest into submission with his curse spell and formed the first modern Zulkirate - the system of Zulkirs as is currently exists based upon specialty. This imposed organization on a system that otherwise was doomed to chaotic self destruction. Then a short time later (we have no idea how long) he also moves on - to what we don't know.
Both Khelben and El believe he was in fact Azuth, but since Azuth and Mystra won't confirm that, I think it is more likely that Escalthar was a mortal servant of one or both of these gods; another chosen perhaps.
The problem being Ythazz Buvarr was one of the first Zulkirs and the article that introduces the story of Escalthar ALSO lists all the other first zulkirs. Ergo, Escalthar was not a Zulkir. He simply got them together with the threat of his spell (he didn't necessarily use it), and made them talk through the formation of the government. Then he went on his own way. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 02:31:29
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Lynn Abbey's portrayal of Lauzoril in the Simbul's Gift (still my single favorite Realms novel) will always make him my favorite.
Yes, it was this portrayal of him that made me want to portray him twice. I want two Lauzoril's... one of whom has had his two daughters for the last hundred years, and the other who HASN'T. I liked the storyline they did with him and his daughter Mimuay, though I'm having her break away from him and going her own path as a necromancer. Meanwhile, the younger daughter, Nyasia, who was pretty, loved dolls, etc.... that one will have stayed with him and pursued the path of either a bard or an arcane trickster (or possibly both). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 02:24:27
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I like Lauzoril, too. But his mindset is too...'domesticated.' He'd rather spend his time in his lab, mutilating creatures for magical experiment (or for amusement) than expand the reaches of Thay and make it a bigger, stronger empire. And about the hair, well, it's vanity, which he himself admitted. I suppose all enchanters are vain to a certain degree, and handsome. Even Iyrith Telgahlagar was just that.
He was the leader of the Imperialist party whose main goal was to expand the reaches of Thay and make it a bigger, stronger empire. He just didn't think it needed to be done militarily and would be better done with subtlety (which I agree does work.... guide the leaders of other countries into doing what you need... makes them happier and less likely to balk). |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 01:01:05
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Lynn Abbey's portrayal of Lauzoril in the Simbul's Gift (still my single favorite Realms novel) will always make him my favorite.
I also enjoyed Red Magic from those days. Zulkir's were so interesting once upon a time :P |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 00:59:28
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
To respond to the poll, I'd argue that Escalthar is clearly the best. :) And he could still be alive, because "there are many rumors and fear-whispered tales, down the years since, of his being seen by dying Red Wizards or watching crucial events in the unfolding governance of Thay."
Ah, but Escalthar "the Black Star" was never a Zulkir.... he just forced the Zulkirate to meet and form.
I don' think that is correct. The Zulkirs existed as supporters of Thayd, before he became undead - basically it was kind of a Mage-Lords of Athalantar system. My belief is that Escalthar was among THESE Zulkirs. After Thayd passed on, "the Black Star" beat the rest into submission with his curse spell and formed the first modern Zulkirate - the system of Zulkirs as is currently exists based upon specialty. This imposed organization on a system that otherwise was doomed to chaotic self destruction. Then a short time later (we have no idea how long) he also moves on - to what we don't know.
Both Khelben and El believe he was in fact Azuth, but since Azuth and Mystra won't confirm that, I think it is more likely that Escalthar was a mortal servant of one or both of these gods; another chosen perhaps. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 22:48:05
Lynn Abbey's portrayal of Lauzoril in the Simbul's Gift (still my single favorite Realms novel) will always make him my favorite. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 13:46:50
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
To respond to the poll, I'd argue that Escalthar is clearly the best. :) And he could still be alive, because "there are many rumors and fear-whispered tales, down the years since, of his being seen by dying Red Wizards or watching crucial events in the unfolding governance of Thay."
Ah, but Escalthar "the Black Star" was never a Zulkir.... he just forced the Zulkirate to meet and form. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 09:46:54
To respond to the poll, I'd argue that Escalthar is clearly the best. :) And he could still be alive, because "there are many rumors and fear-whispered tales, down the years since, of his being seen by dying Red Wizards or watching crucial events in the unfolding governance of Thay."
|
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 08 Jan 2018 : 08:29:13
Ditto. Tam's a tool. :P |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 17 Jul 2014 : 21:02:02
Szass Tam was a lot more interesting as one of the few Only Sane Men among the Zulkirs while being an undead horror. Generic Undead Overlord Tam is boring. Thay being a necromantic hell is boring.
I dunno, I just like the idea of Szass Tam being Thay's Dogbert, rising to the top just to show that he could and then retiring to sit on a nice chair while the other Zulkirs flounder about wondering what the hell just happened. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 17 Jul 2014 : 20:56:41
Lauzoril. He got +5 Cajones of Disruption - and enchanted them himself - after all.  |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 15 Jul 2014 : 18:52:57
I just voted Iyrith because...well...'Asmodeus among us' just makes him awesome. Of the zulkirs that have novel time: Lauzoril. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 02:29:18
I like Lauzoril, too. But his mindset is too...'domesticated.' He'd rather spend his time in his lab, mutilating creatures for magical experiment (or for amusement) than expand the reaches of Thay and make it a bigger, stronger empire. And about the hair, well, it's vanity, which he himself admitted. I suppose all enchanters are vain to a certain degree, and handsome. Even Iyrith Telgahlagar was just that.
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Originally posted by Firestorm
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Originally posted by Dennis
Given that some pre-Szass Tam zulkirs just vanished without trace, as I conjectured before, it's possible they have been acting as Hidden Guardians and one day will say enough is enough and kick the lich lord out.
I don't think so personally. But to each his own.
In my world, The one's who disappeared were killed. Zulkir's above all always wanted power and prestige and would not willingly give up their titles. Witness all the remaining Zulkir's spending 90 years just plotting ways to get back to Thay and regain what they have lost.
Those sorts so not strike me as the types to work from the shadows when they have so much more power in Thay out in the open.
It's been noted before, (I think Ed himself said so) that some zulkirs eventually tired of their "games," or no longer found dodging assassins every waking second of their lives much appealing, and so rather chose to live a relatively peaceful life. Lurking in the shadows, like puppet masters, they still send out a handful of their lackeys to further their agenda. |
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