| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Katriona |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 08:01:05
Recently I've made a character who, among other things, is a real literature buff. I thought of this, since she's a worshipper of Deneir, who is supposed to be god of literature.
But what sort of things can I say she reads? Do novels exist in the realms? I assume that epic poems and the like exist, since Earth humans invented those pretty early, and I vaguely remember something about Sun Elves being into epic poetry.
Could someone with some knowledge of the topic please shed some light? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 05:51:19
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
More interestingly, Ed wrote at least a solid uninterrupted page of every last book he's invented for the Realms, down the years. I've been pushing TSR and later WotC to publish a collection of them for DM use, thus far without success.
THO, you are my Don Quixote (and I would welcome the chance to be your Sancho  ). Pushing TSR and WotC to print something is akin to tilting at windmills. It must be done, but stands very little chance of success.
Keep up your heroic efforts, for they will be rewarded in time.
You can't be Sancho! "Because I- I am Sancho...." (Those who have seen the movie "Orgasmo" will get this one...) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 02:48:36
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
More interestingly, Ed wrote at least a solid uninterrupted page of every last book he's invented for the Realms, down the years. I've been pushing TSR and later WotC to publish a collection of them for DM use, thus far without success.
I'd love to see that page.
What's the likelihood that Ed could one day share snippets of it with us here at Candlekeep?
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 22:57:41
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Of course Ed did. It's based on a real 1950s lurid paperback, "The Nude Said No." Which was incredibly tame by the standards of nowadays. Ed has many times related finding and reading this book in his father's den, and spending years searching the den (and later, everywhere else) for the mythical sequel, "The Nude Said Yes." 
More interestingly, Ed wrote at least a solid uninterrupted page of every last book he's invented for the Realms, down the years. I've been pushing TSR and later WotC to publish a collection of them for DM use, thus far without success.
love,
THO
Add game stats. That'll get it published.  |
| Halidan |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 22:16:08
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
More interestingly, Ed wrote at least a solid uninterrupted page of every last book he's invented for the Realms, down the years. I've been pushing TSR and later WotC to publish a collection of them for DM use, thus far without success.
THO, you are my Don Quixote (and I would welcome the chance to be your Sancho ). Pushing TSR and WotC to print something is akin to tilting at windmills. It must be done, but stands very little chance of sucess.
Keep up your heroic efforts, for they will be rewarded in time. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 18:39:34
Of course Ed did. It's based on a real 1950s lurid paperback, "The Nude Said No." Which was incredibly tame by the standards of nowadays. Ed has many times related finding and reading this book in his father's den, and spending years searching the den (and later, everywhere else) for the mythical sequel, "The Nude Said Yes."
More interestingly, Ed wrote at least a solid uninterrupted page of every last book he's invented for the Realms, down the years. I've been pushing TSR and later WotC to publish a collection of them for DM use, thus far without success.
love,
THO |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 18:09:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I still make use of this web article that Steven made so many years ago.
http://www.wizards.com/forgottenrealms/FR_20001129b_P2.asp
Wow, this so rarely happens, they actually had to make it a book title, "The Nymph Says No". Hmmm, I wonder if Greenwood invented that one.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 17:08:39
Not as of yet. That is still an ongoing project as well, for the most part. The majority of published Realms sources have all been reviewed... it's simply a matter of translating my hand-written notes to the electronic medium. |
| GMWestermeyer |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 16:25:06
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You need not fret, GM. I'm committed to ensuring each and every reference is properly sourced.
I'm the same with practically everything I work on that's based on shared-world material. My extensive composition of musical Realmslore, for example, notes author, creator-of-lore, page reference, chapter [where applicable], source-title, edition, and, finally, year published.
I've tried to maintain much the same for my work on the book lists.
Awesome. :) Is the music lore available for download somewhere? I'd love that as well. :) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 05:52:12
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Just a note to let you guys know that much of the "meat" of Steven's C-Keep book list came as a whole (likely from that wellspring of ideas known as his noggin' and likely with the input of Ed as well). This original list is not gleaned from the FR sources and was created "whole cloth".
The later additions to the list are from Ed's (and others) FR writings. The product citations for these latter books etc. can be noted, but there will be gaps.
-- George Krashos
That's great, but it would have been helpful if they had noted that in the work.
Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine, I have to cite sources religiously at work, it's the only way to ethically do history, and I get upset when i can determine where something originated.
But since that list is free, I shouldn't complain.
You need not fret, GM. I'm committed to ensuring each and every reference is properly sourced.
I'm the same with practically everything I work on that's based on shared-world material. My extensive composition of musical Realmslore, for example, notes author, creator-of-lore, page reference, chapter [where applicable], source-title, edition, and, finally, year published.
I've tried to maintain much the same for my work on the book lists. |
| GMWestermeyer |
Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 04:39:52
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Just a note to let you guys know that much of the "meat" of Steven's C-Keep book list came as a whole (likely from that wellspring of ideas known as his noggin' and likely with the input of Ed as well). This original list is not gleaned from the FR sources and was created "whole cloth".
The later additions to the list are from Ed's (and others) FR writings. The product citations for these latter books etc. can be noted, but there will be gaps.
-- George Krashos
That's great, but it would have been helpful if they had noted that in the work.
Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine, I have to cite sources religiously at work, it's the only way to ethically do history, and I get upset when i can't determine where something originated.
But since that list is free, I shouldn't complain. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 08:57:37
Just a note to let you guys know that much of the "meat" of Steven's C-Keep book list came as a whole (likely from that wellspring of ideas known as his noggin' and likely with the input of Ed as well). This original list is not gleaned from the FR sources and was created "whole cloth".
The later additions to the list are from Ed's (and others) FR writings. The product citations for these latter books etc. can be noted, but there will be gaps.
-- George Krashos
|
| GMWestermeyer |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 01:20:29
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'll likely make the announcement here at Candlekeep, since it originally started as a Candlekeep-specific project.
Many thanks and I look forward to it! |
| Halidan |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 02:19:54
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you're interested in a little collaborative effort, I'd be happy to see what we can manage together on this?
Sorry for the delay. One of my frineds had a family emergency this weekend, and I was caught up in helping to pick up the pieces.
Sage, I'd love to co-operate on this project with you and anyone else who want's to jump in.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I haven't yet included any book-references from the majority of latter 2e and all the 3e adventures. I'm not sure whether you've covered them already?
I've done nothing with any FR sourcebooks or adventures, reguardless of edition. My notes come fron FR novels only. That said, once I get my current notes typed up, I can always start, as I have a complete FR collection through the end of 3.5 edition. Unfortunatly, I have no 4th edition FR material at all.
What I'll do is type up a couple all the literature information I have from a couple of books, format it into a pdf and post it here on Candlekeep as a sample. That way, Sage and anyone else who mwnts to be involved can comment on what I've done, we can change it around, and establish a common format.
Once that's done, we can add books as we discover them. Sound like a plan? Let me know. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 01:17:57
Well, to be fair, he's already well-hung!  
Seriously, though, if you are curious, it's the link in my siggy- the one that says mickeys-tavern in the address. Good yarn, and some unusual twists.... (Okay, enough self-advertizing....) I'll look for those pm's! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 01:04:34
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Will that be in Sage-Time?  JK. No rush- I've got other stuff keepme occupied for now. At least until I finish hanging a certain drow bard.....
Heh. I'll look forward to that.
Re: the PMs, I'll try to get to them this week. 
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That is, essentially, how I set out my reference citations, though I include publishing year and edition for the source also.
I think I'm in love...
I believe I'm spoken for already, my friend.
quote:
please let me know when this is available to download! 
Indeed. I'll likely make the announcement here at Candlekeep, since it originally started as a Candlekeep-specific project. |
| GMWestermeyer |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 23:40:28
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That is, essentially, how I set out my reference citations, though I include publishing year and edition for the source also.
I think I'm in love...
please let me know when this is available to download! |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 18:46:46
Will that be in Sage-Time? JK. No rush- I've got other stuff keepme occupied for now. At least until I finish hanging a certain drow bard..... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 18:16:29
Ah, yes. I was meant to get back to you on that.
Just let me review the PMs we sent back and forth, to refresh my mind on the project.  |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 18:12:23
That reminds me, Sage- do you still want help compiling that list of songs and the lyrics for them? I'm still looking forward to sinking my teeth into that music project. Might even be some overlap between that and the literature listing. Just something to think about. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 07:09:07
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
That sounds awesome, I hope you do make it available as a pdf download... does it include citations? I mean, does each entry cite which Realms book it came from?
i.e.:
Musings of a Witch-Queen in Exile by Athaeal of Evermeet, Year of the Black Flame (from Elminster: The Making of a Mage, Ch 5, p82
That is, essentially, how I set out my reference citations, though I include publishing year and edition for the source also. |
| GMWestermeyer |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 04:57:41
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
That sounds awesome, I hope you do make it available as a pdf download... does it include citations? I mean, does each entry cite which Realms book it came from?
i.e.:
Musings of a Witch-Queen in Exile by Athaeal of Evermeet, Year of the Black Flame (from Elminster: The Making of a Mage, Ch 5, p82
I'd do this myself, but I don't have a complete collection of FR novel, and I'm currently working on a revising my Spelljammer 'official' timeline. But I definitely would love it if some folks have a such a list and they made it available. :)
|
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 04:32:37
-Evermeet: Island of the Elves is a "book within a book", in our hands. Faerūnian literature (translated from Elven epic poetry, most likely, given many of the subjects and topics!) in our hands, direct. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:38:49
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
Heh. Sounds a little like my own listing.
quote:
Unfortunatly, I've never typed it up. It's currently written on several legal pads that I kept by my reading chair and nightstand.
However, now that I'm no longer working, there's no reason I can't get it typed up and formated into a pdf. If nothing else, it will make a good summer project. Let me start working on a portion of it and see if it matches Krash's work. If it doesn't, I'll finish it and offer it for archiving here at Candlekeep.
If you're interested in a little collaborative effort, I'd be happy to see what we can manage together on this?
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
It seems like the Sage posted while I was still composing. Sage, did your list come from novels or modules and sourcebooks (or even both)? Would there be any need for me to go through my lists, or have you already covered the novels I've complied book lists from? Let me know, and if it's usefull, I'll start typing my notes into a more useful form.
Well, as I said above, we can collaborate if you so wish.
I haven't yet included any book-references from the majority of latter 2e and all the 3e adventures. I'm not sure whether you've covered them already?
|
| Halidan |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:23:36
It seems like the Sage posted while I was still composing. Sage, did your list come from novels or modules and sourcebooks (or even both)? Would there be any need for me to go through my lists, or have you already covered the novels I've complied book lists from? Let me know, and if it's usefull, I'll start typing my notes into a more useful form. |
| Halidan |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:18:11
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
Unfortunatly, I've never typed it up. It's currently written on several legal pads that I kept by my reading chair and nightstand.
However, now that I'm no longer working, there's no reason I can't get it typed up and formated into a pdf. If nothing else, it will make a good summer project. Let me start working on a portion of it and see if it matches Krash's work. If it doesn't, I'll finish it and offer it for archiving here at Candlekeep. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:17:10
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon.
Steven weighed in on that issue during a previous discussion. The majority of tomes listed were crafted directly by him. Some were also drawn from his own published Realms-work.
Krash's list [and my own updated version {which also references all the neat books and such that Steven mentioned in both Blackstaff and Blackstaff Tower}, when it's made available] draws almost entirely from published Realmslore.
quote:
It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
That's largely been incorporated as part of my own book-list project that I just mentioned above. |
| GMWestermeyer |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 01:21:25
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And Krash expanded on Steven's list. It's a little out of date, but his expanded list is archived here at Candlekeep:- http://candlekeep.com/library/articles/booklist.htm
Also, look at the chapter epigrams of much of Ed Greenwood's and Steven Schend's fiction. They're both some of Realmslore's great unsung treasures, and convey better than anything how much more there is of the Realms than what the sourcebooks and novels have dwelt on.
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
Otherwise, as previous, those who complain about being forced to read our classics in schools genherally do not understand the difference between taste and quality, and even less the way that different literature influences other literature.
|
| Katriona |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 18:59:34
Thank you, Hooded One, that's actually an extremely useful answer that's given me some good ideas to get me started. When I get a chance to formulate something to ask Mr. Greenwood, I'll do so.
But in the mean time, there are some useful comparisons to be made between some of the races you mentioned, and certain Earth cultures. Of course, it would be a mistake to take those comparisons too far, but it's a good starting place. It'd be nice to have some idea of human literature also, but you've given me a place to start with that also. It'd be interesting to see if there is a large difference between what people in Waterdeep and Cormyr read, just as a random example. That will have to wait until I can organise my thoughts better, though, especially since I'd also be interested in the evolution of literature over time and in different places.
It had occurred to me that the adventurers portrayed in the novels would generally be either too interested in "easy" entertainment in the case of fighters/thieves, or too busy with other studies in the case of clerics/wizards, which is realistic.
As for the canon on Earth, I definitely agree with that, as much as I enjoy much (but definitely not all) of the work found in it. As one description I read described it, it was decided by a bunch of dead white guys. That said, I also enjoy other works not found in it. The Mahabharata is a good example, I think. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 18:48:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ain't that the truth! I've read a lot of the so-called "classics" of Western literature, mostly because they were forced on me in school. And I'm more than a little convinced that the only reason these books are called classics is because everyone has been told they're classic, and not because of any inherent merit.
My personal experience was that most of the books they made me read in school were depressing (which, considering that that is the only reading many children do, it is no surprise to me that most do not become great readers). Luckily for me, I came from a family of readers. And, thanks to my two older sisters and their making me read the Chronicles of Prydain and the Chronicles of Narnia, I developed a love of fantasy early on in life. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 18:26:45
Our world's art/entertainment dichotomy is a peculiar cultural sickness based on a specific course of the history of ideas; its abusive relationship with the imagination, for instance, is a direct result of a monotheism and in particular a Reformation that Faerūn never suffered. There's no Faerūnwide literary culture or periodical press to create and sustain a singular canon. There will be more coherence in attitude among Deneirrath, but it'll be a basically inclusive attitude, biased mainly by Deneir's concern for recording of knowledge and information. |
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