| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Veritas |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:44:36
Some plans must be classic.
As we all have read in 4E, Shar manipulated Cyric into murdering Mystra in an attempt to gain control of the weave. Cyric, for his trouble, was banished to his keep to spend a millennium alone.
Does this plan sound familiar? Maybe because this was exactly the plan Mystra wanted to avoid in Prince of Lies circa 1989.
In the Pavilion of Cynosure when Mask was attempting to induce a chastised Mystra into an intrigue against Cyric the following exchange took place.
Mask- “Its time we joined forces, you and I. An alliance could aid us both.”
Mystra’s reply
“You get to foster intrigue,” said Mystra “and perhaps even gain some of Cyric’s titles if he happens to fall. I get condemned for stopping a mad gone from destroying the world. No thanks.”
It should be noted that any member of the Pantheon could monitor the Pavilion.
Maybe a certain Mistress of Night with a longstanding axe to grind against any incumbent of the goddess of magic chair was listening in?
A few decades later Mystra is slain and the patsy Cyric takes all the heat. Perhaps Shar and Mask are one and the same.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 27 Jan 2011 : 17:52:14
Midnight and Myrjala running around, at that. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jan 2011 : 23:43:03
I consider Mask a 'late bloomer', and his importance to the Realms is yet to be revealed. (IMHO).
If Mystra is the child of Selune and the awareness of the Weave, then...... 
I think all of it is part of Ed's original 'backdrop plot', and hidden deep within Realms lore, but I think the whole 'Light vs Dark' thing was there, right from the beginning. To what extent the designers have used that or went in unexpected directions would be pure speculation.
I do believe it was never meant to be so "in your face" as they have made it, with the Spellplague and what-not. I feel the Realms were meant to be subtler then that. |
| Arioch |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 11:13:58
Well... the idea of a "mortal" version of Mystra, (Midnight or another incarnation), wandering in the Realms, fugitive while trying to regain her lost portfolio can be quite appealing for me.
(Considering maybe that her former essence is split into different parts (some with her chosen, some inside artefact/places, some with Selune, some even inside Shar...) and that those parts maybe are gaining a sort of sentience of their own)
 Ok... ok, I stop it... making it too much complicated! |
| Dennis |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 00:32:02
Indeed, even in other settings, a god or goddess of magic always belongs to the Greater Powers, at least in all those I've read so far... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 00:22:56
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would want Mystra to be reborn as Midnight who is now just a lesser goddess of good magic. But I don't think anything like that will happen. She is just dead :- (
Given how important magic is to the Realms, I can't really see that working. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 23:14:38
I don't think making Mystra a lesser god will work out fine. If that's the case, Shar would have easily killed her---again. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 07:38:00
I would want Mystra to be reborn as Midnight who is now just a lesser goddess of good magic. But I don't think anything like that will happen. She is just dead :- ( |
| Dennis |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 00:51:33
I know most Red Wizards cared not about the gods. But in the long and bloody history of Thay, was there ever a time when Leira became the patron deity of the school of Illusion? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 00:38:34
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
And if Leira is not dead...
She just give the illusion... 
In reality she work with ... Mask... perhaps...
Heh.
I've been working on a theory that builds on some hypothetical mental meanderings between George and Steven in '05, that basically posited the idea that Leira was still around and secretly allied with Mask. Their aim: to steal control of the Shadow Weave from Shar who they've been running as their dupe for a while now.
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| Asharak |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 20:22:44
And if Leira is not dead...
She just give the illusion...
In reality she work with ... Mask... perhaps... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 16:43:19
quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I personally favor Mask being behind the whole thing, myself, but not in the fashion you envision.
Besides, Mask is not the god of intrigue -- he lost that position to Cyric.
I realize he lost Intrigue to Cyric - that's why I said he'd get it back. I know I referred to him as the god of Intrigue, and I still think he is, despite the passing title. You don't stop being who and what you are just because someone else picked up the portfolio. He'll get it back
Well, my point was that you said Mystra was teaming up with the god of intrigue against a hated foe. The reality is that the god of intrigue is that hated foe. Mask certainly wants it back, and is in my opinion a better holder of the portfolio, but it's simply not accurate to call anyone the god of something that they no longer hold.  |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 16:23:58
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I personally favor Mask being behind the whole thing, myself, but not in the fashion you envision.
Besides, Mask is not the god of intrigue -- he lost that position to Cyric.
I realize he lost Intrigue to Cyric - that's why I said he'd get it back. I know I referred to him as the god of Intrigue, and I still think he is, despite the passing title. You don't stop being who and what you are just because someone else picked up the portfolio. He'll get it back
[EDIT] I didn't want to make another post simply to say I concede the point Wooly |
| Arioch |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 16:06:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
Which is your idea Wooly?
That the assassination of Mystra was engineered by Mask, so that he could reclaim Intrigue. There's more to it than that, of course, my full idea (which I really need to outline) is alternative take on her death that also include the creation of a new goddess of magic.
Thanks for the answer! Looking forward to your outline  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 15:58:10
quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
Which is your idea Wooly?
That the assassination of Mystra was engineered by Mask, so that he could reclaim Intrigue. There's more to it than that, of course, my full idea (which I really need to outline) is alternative take on her death that also include the creation of a new goddess of magic. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 15:12:39
In the last chapter of Shadowrealm, it was mentioned "He (Mask) felt her cold hands on him, felt the spark of divinity within him answer to its original owner's touch," AND "In the millennia in which he had been worshiped the faith of his followers had made him something greater than that which he had initially stolen from her." Is this something new---that Mask stole a part of Shar's divinity? Or had this been mentioned in previous novels or sourcebooks? |
| Arioch |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 15:01:54
Which is your idea Wooly? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 14:59:22
I personally favor Mask being behind the whole thing, myself, but not in the fashion you envision.
Besides, Mask is not the god of intrigue -- he lost that position to Cyric. |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 13:48:43
Spoilers for Shadowrealm - scroll over to read
If I recall correctly (and it's been a long time so I might not) Mask was absorbed by Shar at the end of that novel, giving up some of his divinity in payment of some unexplained debt. He was called her son and also her herald. So it's implied that he has been working for her all along. It's quite possible that she and Cyric got their ideas directly from Mask, even more so after she "absorbed" him, so Shar didn't even have to be listening in on any conversations.
However, some of Masks divinity also went to reside in Riven, Prince Rivalen, and Erevis Cale - which subsequently ended up residing in Mephistopheles. So, much like Mystra, he left parts of himself lying about the Realms. Also, it is mentioned that he makes certain Cale's son is born safely after the Spellplague. Why would the god of intrigue do that unless it benefited him in some way? There is the hint that he liked Cale, but there is also the simple fact that he used Cale all the time. His return is prophesied at the end by Riven, as well.
Now, isn't it possible that the god of magic and the god of intrigue worked together to somehow "reboot" magic, as you all put it, and to get rid of their two biggest rivals at the same time?
Personally, I think that by the end we will discover that Mask and Mystra did end up working together after all, just not in the murder of Cyric. I think Mystra is going to manage to subsume Shar, thus controlling the Weave and Shadowweave, and Mask is going to take over Cyric's portfolio, gaining back his own intrigue, as well.
[Forgive me if I’m not making much sense - I'm on a lot of medicine at the moment ]
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| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 10:52:46
I'd rather have Shar subsume Cyric. The less pests in the pantheon, the better. |
| Arioch |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 09:15:10
I prefer to think she (Mystra) simply "changed" (not only her mind) !
Maybe she and Shar fused togheter as one entity... The two essence conflicting and Shar's former self is currently winning. To put it from another point of view: Mystra is currently believing to be Shar.
Things could change if the goddess of magic will "remember" her true identity (maybe helped by the essence of Mystra still around)... Well these are just ideas still in development for the end of my current campaign!
(To shape a world with a little more darker deity of magic, and Mask as god of darkness!) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:53:15
Interesting, indeed. But who knows, along the way, she changed her mind? |
| Arioch |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:50:35
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The SW could not have corrupted the W all by itself. Shar must have had a hand on it----again.
Well yes and no: I've always found this quote from "Faiths and Pantheons" (p. 50) very interesting:
"It is Mystra's aim to eventually subsume the Shadow Weave into her own portfolio, even if that means sacrificing her last remaining vestiges of humanity and inherent goodness and absorbing more of the darkness that is Shar."
...so, as I have proposed some time ago, the chain of event that brought to the SpellPlague may have started from Mystra as well!
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| Dennis |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:06:50
The SW could not have corrupted the W all by itself. Shar must have had a hand on it----again. |
| Arioch |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 09:09:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I tried to write it up as an article, but I got stumped on how to go from one part of the narrative to the next. I may just present the entire idea here, as more of an outline.
Maybe as fragments of a lost scroll/diary? Then the suggestions from other scribes can help filling the gaps.
Difficult... The whole thing starts with the gods, and some of the events would not be seen by mortal eyes.
Well, not to insist (I'm just overly curious about what you came up to) but.. there are a lot of literary artifices to justify a diary of this kind (Of course if this idea appeals you)
I think it can be very interesting to separate the SpellPlague chaos from Mystra's death/substituion! A DM can have intriguing alternatives for his own campaign. I mean: one can use the chaos not as a direct consequence of the goddess death or not use it at all!
@Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
And maybe Mask (whose nature we don't fully understand, but it seems clear he had at least some autonomy) was trying to warn Mystra subtly about what was to come?
Warning about the danger for her or about something else?
The idea of a Mystra that sacrifice herself to destroy the Shadow Weave as well as some incoming doom linked to it is intriguing to me... (But up to now, I wasn't able to came up to a good developement)
If the chaos is not linked "directly" to her death (or never happened as Wooly propose), it could be more plausible that she feigned it.
As for her reasons to feign a demise... well I think there are plenty.
(Just to follow some of the ideas in this thread [sorry: I can't restrain myself from proposing new spellplague scenarios ]: maybe the shadow weave was starting to corrupt the weave (as well as the goddess herself) in an irredeemable way... Maybe now Mystra is hidden somewhere, waiting... : the weave is not reforming simply because the goddess is not dead...(even if Shar claims otherwise))
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| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:50:28
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
She must have failed to consider the possibility of reaching out to Earth and borrow Sage's or Wooly's Anti-Virus software.
I just use Symantec. Lurue only knows what SageOS uses.
I'm working on SageGuard. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 20:09:54
Ah, perhaps the virus that infected Mystra had somehow become impervious to all sorts of anti-virus program, and that a reformat and an upgrade were necessitated. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 18:56:27
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
She must have failed to consider the possibility of reaching out to Earth and borrow Sage's or Wooly's Anti-Virus software.
I just use Symantec. Lurue only knows what SageOS uses. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:46:54
She must have failed to consider the possibility of reaching out to Earth and borrow Sage's or Wooly's Anti-Virus software. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:34:21
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Or got infected by virus?
Indeed. Far better, as Scribe deBie states, to draw conclusions from what is; and go forth, than to 'stompeth ones feet', and cast anew. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:09:44
Or got infected by virus? |
