| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 01:03:38
Anilya's last words in The Shield of Weeping Ghosts are: "Remember it, vremyonni! Remember the power! Rashemen may yet have need of it!"
Is this just a crazy rambling of someone who knew she's about to die, or is Rashemen going to face a war or a cataclysm in the very near future? Had the durthans long ago gleamed into the terrible future and so was desperate to learn the secrets of Ilythiiri magic, the Breath, and the Word?
One more thing I'm curious about...Thaena once mentioned that the reason Thay had never managed to conquer Rashemen is because the Red Wizards, despite their effort, never learned of Rashemen's defenses/wards. What exactly are these wards? Some sort of Spirit Guardians? Or, considering they at times dabble in elven magic, a near-perfect replica of a mythal? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 08:23:28
I like it, too. But I'm not seeing it happening in the near future. Thay's the only undead realm in Toril. Its relative uniqueness would undoubtedly make it stay that way for a while.
Oh, well, given the coming of the Eminence of Aurant, one may say Szass Tam might be eventually written out... |
| Jakk |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 02:20:53
Intriguing... I like door #2... with the side effect that it returns Szass Tam to true life... I think that would make him more dangerous in some ways, and make him more interesting as a villain. I'll have to track down these other speculations by you, Ayrik, and others.  |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 00:41:27
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Another hypothetical here... since some scribes here have brought up Szass Tam and the Dread Rings... what is everyone's take on what would have happened if Tam had succeeded in his ritual?
I, Ayrik, and quite a few more scribes have speculated on that...
I explained it rather the long way in the not so distant past, but the concise version is this:
It would never succeed, at least not in the way that Szass Tam wants it to. The ritual, as how he understands it, would reset the entire cosmos, making him the new Ao. I don't think the Power-That-Be would allow that.
I can imagine the ritual being successfully cast by Szass Tam, but having different effects. And there are a lot of possibilities... One, he could ascend to a greater deity (and as a bonus, kick Velsharoon's butt). Two, the ritual cleanses the land of Thay of any necromantic magic, and protects it from that very same kind of magic, returning it to the lush paradise it once was; and Szass Tam, despite his incalculable power, is unable to counter it, and in the end abandons necromancy for a while, concentrating instead on the other schools of magic. Which is not entirely difficult for him, as he's a master of nearly all schools. Three, (and I have to limit it to this number, since I said "concise" ), the ritual enables Szass Tam to create an alternate Toril---one that is smaller, and nearly devoid of population, where he himself rules supreme. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 00:27:35
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Is Masked Witches a 4e novel? Sourcebook? Something else?
It's a 4E novel. Book IV of the Brotherhood of the Griffon series. It's set in Rashemen. And needless to say, a must-have for all Rashemen fans (and Brotherhood, of course). |
| Jakk |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 21:50:38
Another hypothetical here... since some scribes here have brought up Szass Tam and the Dread Rings... what is everyone's take on what would have happened if Tam had succeeded in his ritual? On a related note (and this may have been asked (possibly by myself) and answered elsewhere): What is Thakorsil's Seat? Never mind... frwiki answered that one for me here.
Edit: I'm slowly learning to ask Google (and, via Google Advanced Search, CK search results) my questions before posting them... but sometimes my typing happens faster than my thinking. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 18:55:00
Is Masked Witches a 4e novel? Sourcebook? Something else? |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 17:15:03
That book answers a few of the questions asked here. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 13:52:04
Really, that's great. I ll purchase that one soon. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 00:50:53
They're actually back in The Masked Witches, albeit in a different form. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 13:14:18
Durthans are willing to ally with anyone as seen in the novel Bladesinger in order to achieve their goals. its too bad they have been wiped out but then i suppose Rashmen has plenty of other enemies to choose from. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:13:17
The durthans did ally with some of the 'dark fey.' But even that proved insufficient to dethrone the hathrans. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Nov 2011 : 22:45:37
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Do the durthans have leaders? If so, had any of them ever revealed themselves?
There is apparently some degree of hierarchy to the durthans, though I can't specifically recall whether it's been properly detailed. The brief bits about the durthans in Unapproachable East tell us that underlings often serve the greater witches, so there may in fact be leaders who determine when these underlings ascend the ranks of the order.
I'd really like to see a remake of the Durthan prestige class. They redid the Hathran for 3.5 to not require 2nd lvl arcane AND 2nd lvl divine. I think it'd be interesting if they made it be 4th lvl arcane OR divine like the hathran. I also think it would be interesting if they made the telthor companion hit dice stack the class levels of any druid (for animal companion) or wizard (for familiar) or spirit shaman (just because they deal with spirits) but that they lose their former animal companion or familiar as a result. It'd probably need a little more thought into it, but as it is the durthan are nothing more than "we use cold magic and control very minor spirits that are never close enough in level to be of use". Make them much more "spirit oriented" than the hathran currently are, to make them more "fey".... and I mean "fey" in the classic "we might betray you" way. I mean, they're giving up circle magic to become durthans, there should be some driving reason why they do it. Maybe even give them some of the same abilities that a spirit shaman gets at the upper levels.
Oh, and I'd more strongly focus on the fact that they use improved counterspell as well. They have "place magic" which allows them to counter any spell that they know or have on their spell list on the fly as long as they make the spellcraft check and have an unassigned spell slot, but if its not a spell that they can cast then they took the feat to counterspell with higher level spells. They probably should get some free counter spell attempts per day or something similar to kind of show how they're different from the hathrans in how they work to defend the land without working in concert with their sisters using circle magic. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Nov 2011 : 22:36:06
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Do the durthans have leaders? If so, had any of them ever revealed themselves?
There is apparently some degree of hierarchy to the durthans, though I can't specifically recall whether it's been properly detailed. The brief bits about the durthans in Unapproachable East tell us that underlings often serve the greater witches, so there may in fact be leaders who determine when these underlings ascend the ranks of the order.
I'd really like to see a remake of the Durthan prestige class. They redid the Hathran for 3.5 to not require 2nd lvl arcane AND 2nd lvl divine. I think it'd be interesting if they made it be 4th lvl arcane OR divine like the hathran. I also think it would be interesting if they made the telthor companion hit dice stack the class levels of any druid (for animal companion) or wizard (for familiar) or spirit shaman (just because they deal with spirits) but that they lose their former animal companion or familiar as a result. It'd probably need a little more thought into it, but as it is the durthan are nothing more than "we use cold magic and control very minor spirits that are never close enough in level to be of use". Make them much more "spirit oriented" than the hathran currently are, to make them more "fey".... and I mean "fey" in the classic "we might betray you" way. I mean, they're giving up circle magic to become durthans, there should be some driving reason why they do it. Maybe even give them some of the same abilities that a spirit shaman gets at the upper levels. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Nov 2011 : 22:13:10
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You can 'invent' Undead? 
I assumed you researched and developed (discovered?) new types of undead. I'm lost here - I may have to actually read that series. I don't know what an Atropal is (though it sounds vaguely familiar).
Personally, I would like to see Rashemen both rise in power, and start to 'slip down that slippery slope'. Both good for an RPG setting and also makes for good story.
What I would do: Rashemen and Nar go to war soon after the Spellplague - its a no-brainer, given the situation. The Nar barbarians are horsemen, and have an early advantage in such a conflict (Rashemi depend on Berserkers, who are never mounted). Normally the Rashemi magic would counter this, but after the cataclysm, they would be at a loss trying to figure-out the new rules, and the Nar would have demonic magic at their disposal, which I would assume would be less effected by the Plague (having its roots elsewhere).
After Szass Tam begins his 'big bad', whatever few refugees (assuming there was some warning , even if it was just Zulkirs fighting) that manage to flee head for Rashemen. It would be logical choice - the Rashemi would offer succor the downtrodden, I would imagine, before some of Thay's other enemies, and they are of the same blood (the commoners). The wall of mountains to the east would preclude much escape into the Wastes, and Aglarond would be in its own confusion and probably withdraw into isolationism (with the Simbul gone). Also, Rashemi would be in need for more numbers against Nar Demonbinders. The war would then slowly start to swing back the other way - eventually the witches would be able to tap into their more elemental magic and bring it to bear - and you would have a stalement of Nar vs Rashemi and their Thayan refugee allies.
Then, the Dread Ring thingy happens, and all sides take notice. Hostilities cease between the Nar and Rashemi, and the two form a truce and pact of mutual protection vs the new, more dangerous(?) Thay. By the time of the new campaign setting (4e), the two nations have become one, if not in name, then in function. Most of the witches have become dark, and have even become demonbinders themselves. The Nar lords and upper echelon of the Witches (the Durthan now) answer to a mysterious figure they refer to as "the Horned Lord" - an alias of Orcus, who now turns his greedy eyes upon Undead-plagued Thay, a situation he feels he should rightfully control.
There is still a covert group of 'good witches' (Hathran) that operate in much the way they did in 'olden times' (pre-plague), but they must now be even more secret then ever. Their masks are gone, but they have developed a series of secret symbols and greetings to identify one another (similar to the Harpers, another group which has gone to ground). The ruling Durthan are aware of them, but ignore them so long as they do not act against them in anyway, and continue to just help the common folk (which in the long run benefits everyone). However, they do not know how organized the Hathran are, nor how many (much more then they assume). Elder Crones (witches that have been around since before the Spellplague) exist in secret, and covertly still run the Hathran sect.
And that's how I would have had things play-out in the intervening years between editions.
Actually, the nar horsemen are very anti-magically oriented now I believe, after the fallout of the Narfellian empire (though I may be misremembering here and thinking about the bedine and Netheril). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 03:17:48
I vaguely recall Anilya referring to her fellow durthans as sisters, which more or less connotes equality. Either she was a leader who didn't want to reveal herself; or her superiors didn't want her to mention anything that would indicate the existence of hierarchy in their order. She appeared too young to be a leader, though. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 02:51:34
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Do the durthans have leaders? If so, had any of them ever revealed themselves?
There is apparently some degree of hierarchy to the durthans, though I can't specifically recall whether it's been properly detailed. The brief bits about the durthans in Unapproachable East tell us that underlings often serve the greater witches, so there may in fact be leaders who determine when these underlings ascend the ranks of the order. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 18:22:45
Do the durthans have leaders? If so, had any of them ever revealed themselves? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 18:33:43
Which is why I did not say they were destroying, nor even killing off the hathrans (wise-women) that they know are still about, because they hep the common folk.
The situation I am describing is actually very RW, wherein someone with the upper hand (superior might) seizes power in a land for its own good, regardless of whether the native population wants them to or not.
And thats as RW as I will get with that touchy subject.
The Durthans are doing what they feel is right, because they think the Hathran were not martial/aggressive enough. They would also be more willing to ally with folk who are traditionally the witches enemies (thus leading to the hypothetical situation I described). In other words, more willing to compromise their beliefs.
And not all Durthans (in my hypothesis) are evil - far from it, actually - merely tyrannical in their beliefs. Just as not all Hathran are 'nice' - once again, far from it. Just of different political views, and the Durthan now have the upper hand. In fact, they may actually be the 'good guys' if you look at it a certain way - the Hathran unwillingness to compromise may have lead to the destruction of Rashemen otherwise. This is why I theorize they rose in power - many Hathran left their ranks because of the moral dilemma.
Once again, entirely a hypothetical homebrew situation.
|
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 16:44:57
MT,
I'd like to note that the durthans do not wish to destroy their land or seize it with tyrannical hands. They only wish to expand it, and crush or colonize Thay, which has always been a threat. Or so said Anilya. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 16:33:24
I finally looked it up - I recall them now. Nasty little suckers. Is there any fluff about their origins?
And while over at the Wiki, I found some of my maps I took down from DeviantART awhile back - thank goodness for Internet thieves. 
I may actually be able to piece together a new one when I am settled down. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 16:28:13
quote:
Originally posted by Farrel
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
Gross, i think i just puked a little.
After clicking on the Atropal link, so did I 
I'd never ever head of the things before, they do sound quite cool though.
There's also a lesser version, I think called Atropal Scion or something that's not epic |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 16:16:45
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Homebrew name for OLD witches (100+ years).
I just made it up for that, but I would say they had a sort of Fey connection to the land, and draw energy from it (which sustains them), but like some Fey, they are limited to how far they can move from their anchor-point (which could be an ancient tree or grove, an alter, their hut, etc). Like I said, I like Rashemen, but I'd darken it up quite a bit.
But then, I find myself drawn to dark settings these days. Happy worlds don't make for good gaming.
100 years. That's not even close to the average age of the hathran, whose affinity to the magic of their land grants them the boon of aging ever so slowly. They're like elves without the ridiculous ears. Or close to, at least.
You mentioned about the witches taking off their masks. Though I must say that sounds [kinda] cool, I think it would elimate the "mystery" factor of their personality.
That was written 'on the fly'.
To further elaborate - they wear no masks that can be discerned. The Elder Crones (ancient Hathran that survived the Spellplague... and that might even include a few who didn't) disguise themselves with their fey magic, by altering their features, This isn't arcane magic (an illusion) - the change is physical and is more of a supernatural ability (so it cannot be detected by normal means).
The leader of the 'secret Hathran' has been quoted as saying "The masks we once wore revealed too much. To remain hidden, we must stay in plain sight, and only then we will be we truly masked."
Its also common sense - the Durthan still wear the masks, as much to inspire fear as anything else. A Hathran caught wearing a mask would be killed. Its a different world now, and the old rules no longer apply. They don't even call themselves Hathran anymore, except when solely with others of their kind; most common folk simply call them 'wise-woman', or the newer 'Wisan' (Wisen for plural). They hide behind the guise of herbalists and midwives, not revealing their true organization.
If I were to write-up a 4e Durthan, I would give them the Warlock's blast for flavor. This doesn't mean 4e Rashemen would be a horrible place to live - there are much worse locales in 4e - but it is a tyranny and the common folk are kept under an iron rule (ostensibly, for their own good). I'm picturing something akin to Latveria under Doctor Doom. Considering they absorbed a good chunk of Thay's commoner population during Tam's war, it wasn't really much of a change for them.
And once again, before I cause any confusion, this is how I would have things play out - its pure homebrew and NOT anything canon, AT ALL. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 06:37:02
Yes, it was stated he used the last bit of power Bane gave him to conjure the dream vestige. But, he was magically crippled that time that he needed Bane's boon to cast most of his spells effectively. Now that magic is relatively stable, he's finally capable again to cast spells without [or with very little] difficulty.
---
The Dread Ring in the Sword Coast was mentioned in Bob's latest series. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 06:26:51
Its explicitly stated that he summons the dream vestige with the last bit of power Bane lent him, I just re-read Undead last month.
An aborted deity fetus seems like an almost impossibly rare event to me : o
Are you referring to things in a new novel or short story I don't know about? How do people know he's building new Dread Rings on the Sword Coast, etc. ? I've only read the Haunted Lands trilogy, The Simbul's Gift and Red Magic that relate to him/Thay. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 05:26:06
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
With a lower population there are less corpses and people to replenish their forces as well. I would presume Szass Tam was able to acquire much of what he did from the wealth of Thay which he destroyed in his conquest.
Bane gave Szass Tam the knowledge on how to raise the dead whose remains are so indistinguashable from soil that no ordinary necromancers can raise, let alone detect; and he shared that knowledge with the Red Wizards who are mind-linked to him. He can do it again should he need to. Plus, they can animate their fallen enemies.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Xingax was unique and I don't think the necromancers can create undead abomination as well as he could.
The Abyss is a huge place. I'm sure Szass Tam can manage to summon another atropal scion whose ingenuity is equal or close to Xingax's.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Szass Tam used the last bit of power Bane gave him to control the dream vestige - which was unique and destroyed already :S Szass Tam won with the help of a God (and the fact that it was predetermined by the authors and powers that be) He could not access that power again it was a one time deal.
He was forced to make do of that option because the Weave at that time was crippled. Now that it more or less stabilizes, [and now that Mystra's return is imminent], spellcasting is back to [near] normal. Hence, he will be able summon another dream vestige. He may even use some trapped magic from the Dread Rings to do so. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 05:09:34
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Homebrew name for OLD witches (100+ years).
I just made it up for that, but I would say they had a sort of Fey connection to the land, and draw energy from it (which sustains them), but like some Fey, they are limited to how far they can move from their anchor-point (which could be an ancient tree or grove, an alter, their hut, etc). Like I said, I like Rashemen, but I'd darken it up quite a bit.
But then, I find myself drawn to dark settings these days. Happy worlds don't make for good gaming.
100 years. That's not even close to the average age of the hathran, whose affinity to the magic of their land grants them the boon of aging ever so slowly. They're like elves without the ridiculous ears. Or close to, at least.
You mentioned about the witches taking off their masks. Though I must say that sounds [kinda] cool, I think it would elimate the "mystery" factor of their personality. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 04:51:45
I would contest that. Thay was divided before but had more power in its diversity.
While it seems as though many members of other schools sided with Szass Tam
its unclear exactly how many, and if people generally just practice one kind of magic its easier to counter them.
As they have been portrayed most undead are slow and clumsy, those that aren't
require sustenance such as life force, human flesh, etc. Undead are also very
vulnerable to a lot of things as has been mentioned. They aren't superior to living minions as they are portrayed and statistics wise. Where there is a Angel of Decay there would be a Telthor bear, etc.
With a lower population
there are less corpses and people to replenish their forces as well. I would
presume Szass Tam was able to acquire much of what he did from the wealth
of Thay which he destroyed in his conquest.
Xingax was unique and I don't think the necromancers can create undead
abomination as well as he could.
Szass Tam used the last bit of power Bane gave him to control the dream
vestige - which was unique and destroyed already :S Szass Tam won with
the help of a God (and the fact that it was predetermined by the authors and powers
that be) He could not access that power again it was a one time deal.
There might be a lot of bitter deities that Szass Tam baned their faith from his
nation. Cyric, Umberlee, Talos, Shar, etc. would probably all support his downfall.
Especially since Bane directly intervened, that would give them the pretext to do
so as well.
Rashemi Berserkers and the witches of Rashemen have already proved themselves capable of defeating more diverse forces in the past. Lady Yhelbruna is supposed to be as powerful as Szass Tam (assuming she survived the spell plague.) The Witches would know to prepare for an undead invasion rather than whatever else could have been thrown at them with old Thay.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 03:39:25
Homebrew name for OLD witches (100+ years).
I just made it up for that, but I would say they had a sort of Fey connection to the land, and draw energy from it (which sustains them), but like some Fey, they are limited to how far they can move from their anchor-point (which could be an ancient tree or grove, an alter, their hut, etc). Like I said, I like Rashemen, but I'd darken it up quite a bit.
But then, I find myself drawn to dark settings these days. Happy worlds don't make for good gaming.
|
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 03:30:16
Elder Crones? What's that? New prestige class? Crones with the power of Elder Brains? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 01:21:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Farrel
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
Gross, i think i just puked a little.
After clicking on the Atropal link, so did I
I'd never ever head of the things before, they do sound quite cool though.
I personally don't like the concept -- at least the physical description. Deific undead fetuses? I find this most distasteful. If they'd've made them look like some sort of adult humanoid, or given them some other form, I'd not mind these guys as much.
I actually like the atropal concept -- though only as a possible campaign element for a PLANESCAPE game. With so much much lore about lost, forgotten, and dead gods floating around the planes, the possibility of a still-born godling foetus, is intriguing expansion of that stuff. |
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