| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 03:28:22
Only the tested and proven bestselling authors get the privilege of having their novels published in hardbound. I noticed, as most of you perhaps, that the new authors (with the exception of a very few non-FR but still WotC-published writers, like Ari Marmell) only get the paperback treatment. Heh, some veteran authors are even treated the same. I was just wondering that maybe WotC should make a bold gamble and have MORE novels published in hardbound. This idea came from a very personal perspective that maybe some of you can relate to...I don't hate paperback books as they are very convenient to bring when going somewhere else to read besides our cozy home. But there are a lot of books – A LOT of FR novels – that I want to last longer in my library. There are times that our friends want to borrow our delicate paperbacks and of course, we can't be so selfish or callous as to tell them we can't lend them those because their delicateness will soon turn their state to nothing short of crap; and that they should choose something else from our hardbound collection. You see, I've got ten (or is it twelve?) FR paperbacks that I had to replace because my friends inadvertently made them no less than what a book usually looks like when a three-year old child plays with it. Another thing, (I don't know if you could relate to this), I often buy BOTH hardbound and paperback books. The former is for me and for my special someone alone, and the latter for my friends, who sometimes visit my library without my knowledge.
That said, the two advantages of hardbound (I know there's more, but these are what I consider primal among them all) are that our treasured books will surely last longer and that we are saved from the inconvenient task of replacing our torn, worn, turned-to-crap paperbacks.
What do you think? Do you want ALL, or at the very least, MOST FR novels to be published in hardbound? Or would you rather prefer ALL to be published in paperback, so that you wouldn't have to wait six months for the paperback version of your anticipated books that happen to be first published in hardbound?
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Hooch9 |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 08:47:30
I can appreciate both paper and hardcover.
Generally, I go for paperback. I find it easier to hold (weighs less). Also, I guess a bit more portable.
My only real gripe with hardcover is price. I understand it is made with sturdier materials, but the price seems a little uneven in comparison to the paperpback. It seems like it's 4-5x times the price. Still, I guess you get what you pay for. For that reason, I'd never lend hardbacks out. In fact, I'd rather let a cheap paperback go to it's doom than a hardcover (even though I still prefer paperback)
I would also have to agree with Thauramarth. Electronic versions are nice too (I'd buy a kindle if they had some of the older FR novels available). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 11 Dec 2010 : 20:04:40
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm undecided on the issue, so I didn't vote.
What *I* would most prefer is a fourth option: "Whatever cost/benefit option gets out MORE FR novels, more frequently, with greater availability and marketing."
I would also like to write about a dozen or so of those myself, unsurprisingly. 
Cheers
That whatever is hardbound. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 23:19:24
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm undecided on the issue, so I didn't vote.
What *I* would most prefer is a fourth option: "Whatever cost/benefit option gets out MORE FR novels, more frequently, with greater availability and marketing."
I would also like to write about a dozen or so of those myself, unsurprisingly.
Cheers
I'm the Sage, and I approve this message.  |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 18:34:53
I'm undecided on the issue, so I didn't vote.
What *I* would most prefer is a fourth option: "Whatever cost/benefit option gets out MORE FR novels, more frequently, with greater availability and marketing."
I would also like to write about a dozen or so of those myself, unsurprisingly.
Cheers |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 17:18:06
I voted to keep things Status Quo. I like the hardcovers, but they hurt the budget and aren't as portable (e-book is TOO portable for me). The big trade paperbacks I HATE (if it's big, it's gotta be hardcover). As long as I get big hardcover books sometimes and small paperbacks usually, I'm happy. Same thing the other way around. I don't like the tiny hardcovers (I don't think there are any FR ones though). Anyways that's my take on it. |
| Cyril Lokner |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 04:26:31
I'm a hardbound guy... but I would prefer to get a hardbound omnibus of each series as apposed to a hardbound of each separate novel. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 00:24:03
Didn't know it exists. Blame the Search Spell of this site. I did use it before posting my OP, but it never showed that thread. Besides, the options are somewhat different.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 17:31:26
You mean identical topic. I can't believe I didn't remember it ... even after commenting only a few weeks ago, even after the last voting option made me chuckle - twice. I blame dennis.
Note the very different voting results, although this poll has had less participation. I didn't vote there, either. |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 14:42:54
For a similar topic look here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10163 |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 14:38:20
Hardbound – For most or all FR novels. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 12:13:59
"Vanity press" sounds interesting. POD is just an alternative, even a luxury. Not at all tenable for mass-distribution softcovers and hardcovers. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 09:33:43
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I've looked into this a bit in my own attempts to "break in" and to me, the cost (at 400$ and up for the basic packages) seems too steep for the possible payoff. Yes, you get the thrill of seeing yourself in print, and a few copies to give to friends and family, and a bit of marketing, but if the book doesn't sell worth crap, you're out the money and often don't even get back what you put in to begin with. That's not much different from a vanity press. Granted, POD is more professional and has a bigger market, but no one is going to buy it unless they go looking for it, or they already know it's out there. Doesn't seem like a good investment to me unless you have the money to burn. I for one, don't. I'd rather play the lottery of larger publishers and take the same chance as all my favorite authors did.
Agreed. That's precisely why POD is called the "cousin" of vanity press. There's hardly a difference. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 17:11:43
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Tally the votes, edit OP, login as a Guest and fix the count if you must ... just sayin'
Back to Xlibris (and similar outfits) ... if you find a good one you can buy books in single units at "hardcover" prices, build a pdf and ship it to them so they don't charge you for computer/layout time. Prices vary, but some are less expensive than big-chain books (even after shipping/freight costs).
The more substantial cost for using the printing house as a short-run "publisher" seems more like a business/career move to me. If you want to make money as a writer then at some point you'll have to risk some monetary investment (yours or someone else's) and have faith. I'd look at it as a "marketing" expense: you'll never see the money again, it's gone, but if the product is good then there's no such thing as bad advertising and your investment will return and multiply. Successful entrepreneurs are the ones who gamble big (on successful products), you don't win every hand but you come out ahead if your strategy for playing the odds is good. And you can never win the jackpot at all if you don't play.
Given this mindset, it's not a scam, it's just the price of a service. Shop around, compare prices and services, just part of the price of "breaking in" to the industry I suppose.
I've looked into this a bit in my own attempts to "break in" and to me, the cost (at 400$ and up for the basic packages) seems too steep for the possible payoff. Yes, you get the thrill of seeing yourself in print, and a few copies to give to friends and family, and a bit of marketing, but if the book doesn't sell worth crap, you're out the money and often don't even get back what you put in to begin with. That's not much different from a vanity press. Granted, POD is more professional and has a bigger market, but no one is going to buy it unless they go looking for it, or they already know it's out there. Doesn't seem like a good investment to me unless you have the money to burn. I for one, don't. I'd rather play the lottery of larger publishers and take the same chance as all my favorite authors did. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 16:22:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm a fan of paperbacks, myself. I like to have a book in my hand, rather than just a bunch of 1s and 0s.
...snipped!
I havent seen any FR novels available in Binary...
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 16:00:29
I'm a fan of paperbacks, myself. I like to have a book in my hand, rather than just a bunch of 1s and 0s. I've not always had a lot of money, so paperbacks have long been a better option than hardbacks. Plus, it's the same content, for less money. And paperbacks take up less room on my bookshelves, where space is already at a premium.
Additionally, there are a lot more paperbacks out there than hardbacks.
Lastly -- and this is important for me -- I like that I can read a paperback with just one hand. You can't do that as readily with a hardback. The reason this is important to me is that even though I'm married, I still like it when I get time to eat a meal by myself, with a book in hand. I do that every weekday morning, for breakfast, and I generally get to do it at least once or twice a week for dinner. |
| GRYPHON |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 14:39:49
Paperbacks, although e-books are nice... |
| Quale |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 11:41:28
paperbacks, cause after I read the novel I find it very hard to read the same plot twice, there's a very short list of fantasy novels that I keep |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 10:11:19
Christopher Paolini used to publish his books in Xlibris, if I'm not mistaken. But I think very rarely do writers achieve the success they crave when they resort to PODs. Note, however, that I'm not particularly into the what's-up and not in the world of PODs, so I could be wrong. It's just my own observation. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 10:01:10
Tally the votes, edit OP, login as a Guest and fix the count if you must ... just sayin'
Back to Xlibris (and similar outfits) ... if you find a good one you can buy books in single units at "hardcover" prices, build a pdf and ship it to them so they don't charge you for computer/layout time. Prices vary, but some are less expensive than big-chain books (even after shipping/freight costs).
The more substantial cost for using the printing house as a short-run "publisher" seems more like a business/career move to me. If you want to make money as a writer then at some point you'll have to risk some monetary investment (yours or someone else's) and have faith. I'd look at it as a "marketing" expense: you'll never see the money again, it's gone, but if the product is good then there's no such thing as bad advertising and your investment will return and multiply. Successful entrepreneurs are the ones who gamble big (on successful products), you don't win every hand but you come out ahead if your strategy for playing the odds is good. And you can never win the jackpot at all if you don't play.
Given this mindset, it's not a scam, it's just the price of a service. Shop around, compare prices and services, just part of the price of "breaking in" to the industry I suppose. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 09:39:32
I support all book formats, as each has its own many advantages. But hardbound suits me best. If ten, twenty, or thirty years after buying them I feel the desire to read some of my favorite novels, I wouldn't need to worry that the pages will fall like leaves in autumn, as what happened to my Test of the Twins. Good thing WotC reprinted it, so I easily found a replacement.
Re: OP edit, I wouldn't risk it. Unless Sage or Wooly says it will not mess up the current votes. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:54:18
You might be able to edit your OP, dennis. Don't know if the voting options can be reconfigured now that people have voted.
I tried getting into eBooks, back in my PDA days (imagine an iPhone burdened with a buggy little version of Microsoft Windows, also no phone and no mp3 player built in). I found that trying to read eBooks on these tiny screens was laughably inefficient when I could just carry a book instead. Reading eBooks on large displays is a little bit of a strain after a few hours, I read slower and walk away with a slight headache, not at all recreational. (And hey, I'm nerdcore, I was a nerd before it was cool to be a nerd, 36 hours of solitary nonstop computing normally invigorates me.)
Add to the fact that most eBooks actually have similar cost to physical books and it's just not worth it; you buy intangible data instead of a real physical object? It's not at all illegal for me to buy a book, scan it, and read it electronically. (It is illegal if I attempt to distribute or sell the electronic copy, though.) I could always buy an eBook and print it out instead, but then I get a shoddy physical book and have to pay ridiculous prices for ink-cartridge replacements.
eBooks are awesome for technical references which constantly need database-like searching and crossindexing and endless version revisions; an added bonus is I don't fill my shelves with accumulated tons and tons of soon-obsolete technica errata. But eBooks just aren't suitable for fiction - in my opinion, lol. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:28:30
I forgot about the ebooks. Some of my hardbound have electronic counterparts. Pretty much handy when I'm looking for something in the book. It's a just "control+f" away. |
| Thauramarth |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:18:43
Paperback for me. Main reasons: convenience (like Arik, I tend to approach books as things to be read, rather than collector's objects, and I read a lot on the move, and mass market paperbacks are a perfect fit for the pockets of most of my jackets).
Actually, I think that there's a voting option missing - electronic versions. I would not advocate going purely electronic, but purely for space and weight reasons, I would not mind the option of having part of the library in electronic format (iPad, Kindle, whatever), but there's some that I'd still get in hardcopy.
As for durability, or lack thereof: as I type this, I gaze across my rows and rows of paperbacks, some close to twenty-five years old. Some are a bit the worse for wear, others not so much, but all the pages are still in. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:07:41
Interesting that you should mention the POD approach. I don't see them doing this, simply because it's primarily meant for self-publishing by new authors. And POD would interfere with their already existing publishing platform, I think. I looked into XLibris, BTW, and while it's not a scam as such, it's prohibitively expensive for most folks (including me). With a price tag in the hundreds to get it started, and no guarantee of making it back, It's not a very logical way for the established authors to go, in any case. Mostly because it doesn't generate the kind of publicity that a large publisher can. I have seen some omnibus type collections in hardback (mostly that dark elf guy and El,) so there might be more of these coming in the future- at least for the top-selling series. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:25:02
Xlibris as a print-on-demand bookmaker, yes. As an "agent" to publish your own work, I cannot say, many people feel it's a scam of some sort. I've ordered POD books before for about the same cost as most other hardcovers (give or take); from a consumer standpoint it's a wonderful approach. The problem is the publishing house cannot legally violate any IPs it does not own, so no company in the world will POD any sort of D&D book if Hasbro prohibits it. My purchases have thus far all been books of the Gutenberg/public domain sort; bound, typeset, illustrated, and engraved to my specifications. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:11:13
Really? Perhaps self-publishing houses like Xlibris? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:02:45
I doubt Hasbro (or its subsidiaries) will ever adopt print-on-demand, at least not for mainstream releases. Imagine being able to order a "unique" book; factory engraved with custom text/image as you specify on the cover and spine, containing whatever mixture of texts arranged and even fonted however you desire (within physical page limits). This is done already, just (as far as I know) not by any of the big publishing houses. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:56:22
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Or has this already been done? Or am I missing some fundamental grasp of how the industry works?
Not yet. But close. All the omnibus are in Trade Paperback, which is an improvement for some books which were originally published in Mass Market Paperback. You might think that considering the volume of 3 novels, releasing them in TP is only logical. Well, some, like Daw and EOS, publish omnibus in MMP. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:48:59
Hardcovers are considerably more expensive to produce in volume (much reflected in their price tag), so it's understandable that new talent doesn't merit the greater risk (in terms of the publisher's lost investment) that hardcover runs would cost. They're in a tough position: print more units so that "bulk" can reduce per-unit costs, yet don't print more than they expect to sell.
I wonder if a series of hardcover "Classic Realms" collections would be successful. Big fat tabloid tomes, each packing illustrations and a trilogy or two of existing novels. (Combined with the usual "exclusive new content from the vault" marketing gimmick, to draw all those people who already have the novels but simply must have it all.)
Since these books have already been written (and have established sales figures) they wouldn't cost as much to produce as a new commission, they'd even generate a short trickle of royalty revenue from "dead" products. In fact, there's no reason to stop with the Realms; DL novels (and those of other worlds) could be re-released in this format as well. A few of the less popular "lemons" could even be mixed in as well.
Or has this already been done? Or am I missing some fundamental grasp of how the industry works? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:46:26
Fixed? Whatever FOR?! Bow down, slave!!
(Lol, kidding. I sometimes have a slightly domineering streak in me. I do believe it's why my dear Ducky picked me- I'm a sadist, and he's a masochist. {Okay, not really, but you know what I mean.} It works out. I DO love keeping the men in line...) |
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