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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 03:28:22
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Poll Question:
Only the tested and proven bestselling authors get the privilege of having their novels published in hardbound. I noticed, as most of you perhaps, that the new authors (with the exception of a very few non-FR but still WotC-published writers, like Ari Marmell) only get the paperback treatment. Heh, some veteran authors are even treated the same. I was just wondering that maybe WotC should make a bold gamble and have MORE novels published in hardbound. This idea came from a very personal perspective that maybe some of you can relate to...I don't hate paperback books as they are very convenient to bring when going somewhere else to read besides our cozy home. But there are a lot of books – A LOT of FR novels – that I want to last longer in my library. There are times that our friends want to borrow our delicate paperbacks and of course, we can't be so selfish or callous as to tell them we can't lend them those because their delicateness will soon turn their state to nothing short of crap; and that they should choose something else from our hardbound collection. You see, I've got ten (or is it twelve?) FR paperbacks that I had to replace because my friends inadvertently made them no less than what a book usually looks like when a three-year old child plays with it. Another thing, (I don't know if you could relate to this), I often buy BOTH hardbound and paperback books. The former is for me and for my special someone alone, and the latter for my friends, who sometimes visit my library without my knowledge.
That said, the two advantages of hardbound (I know there's more, but these are what I consider primal among them all) are that our treasured books will surely last longer and that we are saved from the inconvenient task of replacing our torn, worn, turned-to-crap paperbacks.
What do you think? Do you want ALL, or at the very least, MOST FR novels to be published in hardbound? Or would you rather prefer ALL to be published in paperback, so that you wouldn't have to wait six months for the paperback version of your anticipated books that happen to be first published in hardbound?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 03:36:56
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| I voted the usual, because as a reader on a strict budget, I tend to limit my spending on books to what I can afford at the time. This usually means I can buy more books if I get them in paperback format. By the same token, for books that I REALLY love, I sometimes try to get them in hardbound edition, because they last longer. But, the downside to that is that if or when I move (which I have done frequently) they are much heavier and harder to pack effectively. I can put a dozen paperbacks into the same space as four or five hardbound books. So I tend to prefer the smaller and lighter format. So I'd say keep it the same. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 03:42:00
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Like you, dennis, I voted for more hardbound, because that's what I personally want. However, I must warn you: increasingly, the North American publishing market is headed in the other direction, as publishers under siege from Amazon and other e-book sales look to trim costs. Many of the big-name mystery writers (as opposed to thriller or Dan Brown/Girl Who conspiracy writers) who WERE "always published between boards" are having their hardcovers turn into trade paperbacks (hardcover-sized paperbacks) this last season, and increasingly this and the next season...
love,
THO |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 03:56:31
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| Yes, I was aware of that. 'Twas sad news for people like me... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 04:14:11
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| But I am happy that some are still trying to 'reinforce' the hardbound format. Some series of books originally have book 1 published in mass market paperback; and due to popularity the publishers decide to have the rest in the series in hardbound. Just like the case with Rothfuss's The Name of the Wind, the first book in what I gather would be a great, Tolkien-caliber trilogy. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 04:38:18
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lol, you and your polls dennis. 
I'm personally torn between softcover and "the usual", so no vote.
Books of this sort are - for me - meant to serve as entertainment. I read them. I stuff them casually into the voluminous pockets of my ubiquitous cargo pants. Or shove them with little care into a backpack or briefcase, usually crushed underneath a laptop and a pile of bizarre techie tools. I fold corners, I sometimes scribble little cross-reference notes; I travel nowhere without a book or two on my person. I own tons of these sorts of books and I'm not too picky about their condition so long as they each remain in one piece and only slight stains smear their pages. The book is of no value to me if I can't read it. Hardcovers are awkward, heavy, inflexible, and expensive.
Yet I have two friends who are D&D book collectors in a very different sense. They borrow my FR books for reading purposes. Then they take their untouched and sanitized FR books and carefully package them in crates, shrinkwrapped between sheets of cloth and little dessicant packs ... these books are preserved in pristine condition for eBayers and archeologists of the distant future. They love hardcovers. They love it even more when they can get both kinds. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Dec 2010 04:41:56 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 04:43:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
lol, you and your polls dennis.
Heh, I got one more, actually. But it would need a lot of pondering. I don't want to shake the 'Keep with it.
Anyway, are you sure you voted? The Usual only has one vote, which is I assume Alystra's. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 04:47:57
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| Nay, lad, vote I did not. Do ye keep track? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 05:07:24
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I voted more hardbacks. I'm not sure I would want every book done as a hardback (I do have a budget after all) but at the very least I would like to see authors such as Richard Lee Byers and Paul S Kemp who have written a number of books get the hardcover treatment. To be clear, they are only examples and by no means the only ones I would want to see in hardcover. It probably wouldn't hurt to do the omnibus editions in hardcover either. Overall I prefer hardcover books.
For those who are on a tighter budget, it wouldn't hurt to release the paperback in a more timely fashion. I don't how practical that is to the publishers though. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 05:52:32
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Aye! I too love to get collected editions in hardback. That, I think is where I would most likely stray from my usual habit of buying only in paperback versions. I dearly wish to get my hands on the Annotated Elminster, at the moment. Then again, I hear that LOTS of lasses would like to get their hands on him, annotated or otherwise! LOL!!
Side-note- This is UTTERLY off-topic, but since Dennis pointed out to me earlier that I just went up to Master of Realmslore rank, I would like to point out that today was also my birthday. Yay- 34 years "young"..... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:01:34
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Happy birthday, Alystra  ... 24 annotated with a decade of experience, eh? And a Master of Realmslore. Or would that be a Mistress of Realmslore? Gratz! |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:12:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Nay, lad, vote I did not. Do ye keep track?
Not always. You just happened to be one of the first few who replied, so the reflection in the poll was rather obvious. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:16:35
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| MISTRESS??! Ack, my "Alter Self" spell must be wearing off- my true drow form seems to be showing through!! LOL, and yes, annotated with 10 yrs experience, indeed. Thank ye, kindly, though good sir. Makes me feel almost like a young lass again... ALMOST. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:33:42
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| Happy Birthday, Mistress of Realmslore! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:38:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I voted more hardbacks. I'm not sure I would want every book done as a hardback (I do have a budget after all) but at the very least I would like to see authors such as Richard Lee Byers and Paul S Kemp who have written a number of books get the hardcover treatment.
Totally agree.  It's high time.
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Aye! I too love to get collected editions in hardback. That, I think is where I would most likely stray from my usual habit of buying only in paperback versions. I dearly wish to get my hands on the Annotated Elminster, at the moment. Then again, I hear that LOTS of lasses would like to get their hands on him, annotated or otherwise! LOL!!
Hmmm, I heard not just lasses but lads and some nobles as well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:38:22
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| Perhaps we should suggest to Sage that the Master/Mistress titles be "fixed" ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:45:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Perhaps we should suggest to Sage that the Master/Mistress titles be "fixed" ...
That's a worthwhile point, I think. I'll talk to Alaundo. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:48:59
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Hardcovers are considerably more expensive to produce in volume (much reflected in their price tag), so it's understandable that new talent doesn't merit the greater risk (in terms of the publisher's lost investment) that hardcover runs would cost. They're in a tough position: print more units so that "bulk" can reduce per-unit costs, yet don't print more than they expect to sell.
I wonder if a series of hardcover "Classic Realms" collections would be successful. Big fat tabloid tomes, each packing illustrations and a trilogy or two of existing novels. (Combined with the usual "exclusive new content from the vault" marketing gimmick, to draw all those people who already have the novels but simply must have it all.)
Since these books have already been written (and have established sales figures) they wouldn't cost as much to produce as a new commission, they'd even generate a short trickle of royalty revenue from "dead" products. In fact, there's no reason to stop with the Realms; DL novels (and those of other worlds) could be re-released in this format as well. A few of the less popular "lemons" could even be mixed in as well.
Or has this already been done? Or am I missing some fundamental grasp of how the industry works? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Dec 2010 06:50:41 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:56:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Or has this already been done? Or am I missing some fundamental grasp of how the industry works?
Not yet. But close. All the omnibus are in Trade Paperback, which is an improvement for some books which were originally published in Mass Market Paperback. You might think that considering the volume of 3 novels, releasing them in TP is only logical. Well, some, like Daw and EOS, publish omnibus in MMP. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:02:45
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| I doubt Hasbro (or its subsidiaries) will ever adopt print-on-demand, at least not for mainstream releases. Imagine being able to order a "unique" book; factory engraved with custom text/image as you specify on the cover and spine, containing whatever mixture of texts arranged and even fonted however you desire (within physical page limits). This is done already, just (as far as I know) not by any of the big publishing houses. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:11:13
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| Really? Perhaps self-publishing houses like Xlibris? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:25:02
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| Xlibris as a print-on-demand bookmaker, yes. As an "agent" to publish your own work, I cannot say, many people feel it's a scam of some sort. I've ordered POD books before for about the same cost as most other hardcovers (give or take); from a consumer standpoint it's a wonderful approach. The problem is the publishing house cannot legally violate any IPs it does not own, so no company in the world will POD any sort of D&D book if Hasbro prohibits it. My purchases have thus far all been books of the Gutenberg/public domain sort; bound, typeset, illustrated, and engraved to my specifications. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:07:41
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| Interesting that you should mention the POD approach. I don't see them doing this, simply because it's primarily meant for self-publishing by new authors. And POD would interfere with their already existing publishing platform, I think. I looked into XLibris, BTW, and while it's not a scam as such, it's prohibitively expensive for most folks (including me). With a price tag in the hundreds to get it started, and no guarantee of making it back, It's not a very logical way for the established authors to go, in any case. Mostly because it doesn't generate the kind of publicity that a large publisher can. I have seen some omnibus type collections in hardback (mostly that dark elf guy and El,) so there might be more of these coming in the future- at least for the top-selling series. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
732 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:18:43
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Paperback for me. Main reasons: convenience (like Arik, I tend to approach books as things to be read, rather than collector's objects, and I read a lot on the move, and mass market paperbacks are a perfect fit for the pockets of most of my jackets).
Actually, I think that there's a voting option missing - electronic versions. I would not advocate going purely electronic, but purely for space and weight reasons, I would not mind the option of having part of the library in electronic format (iPad, Kindle, whatever), but there's some that I'd still get in hardcopy.
As for durability, or lack thereof: as I type this, I gaze across my rows and rows of paperbacks, some close to twenty-five years old. Some are a bit the worse for wear, others not so much, but all the pages are still in. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:28:30
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| I forgot about the ebooks. Some of my hardbound have electronic counterparts. Pretty much handy when I'm looking for something in the book. It's a just "control+f" away. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 08:54:18
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You might be able to edit your OP, dennis. Don't know if the voting options can be reconfigured now that people have voted.
I tried getting into eBooks, back in my PDA days (imagine an iPhone burdened with a buggy little version of Microsoft Windows, also no phone and no mp3 player built in). I found that trying to read eBooks on these tiny screens was laughably inefficient when I could just carry a book instead. Reading eBooks on large displays is a little bit of a strain after a few hours, I read slower and walk away with a slight headache, not at all recreational. (And hey, I'm nerdcore, I was a nerd before it was cool to be a nerd, 36 hours of solitary nonstop computing normally invigorates me.)
Add to the fact that most eBooks actually have similar cost to physical books and it's just not worth it; you buy intangible data instead of a real physical object? It's not at all illegal for me to buy a book, scan it, and read it electronically. (It is illegal if I attempt to distribute or sell the electronic copy, though.) I could always buy an eBook and print it out instead, but then I get a shoddy physical book and have to pay ridiculous prices for ink-cartridge replacements.
eBooks are awesome for technical references which constantly need database-like searching and crossindexing and endless version revisions; an added bonus is I don't fill my shelves with accumulated tons and tons of soon-obsolete technica errata. But eBooks just aren't suitable for fiction - in my opinion, lol. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Dec 2010 09:03:55 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 09:39:32
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I support all book formats, as each has its own many advantages. But hardbound suits me best. If ten, twenty, or thirty years after buying them I feel the desire to read some of my favorite novels, I wouldn't need to worry that the pages will fall like leaves in autumn, as what happened to my Test of the Twins. Good thing WotC reprinted it, so I easily found a replacement.
Re: OP edit, I wouldn't risk it. Unless Sage or Wooly says it will not mess up the current votes. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 03 Dec 2010 09:41:01 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 10:01:10
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Tally the votes, edit OP, login as a Guest and fix the count if you must ... just sayin'
Back to Xlibris (and similar outfits) ... if you find a good one you can buy books in single units at "hardcover" prices, build a pdf and ship it to them so they don't charge you for computer/layout time. Prices vary, but some are less expensive than big-chain books (even after shipping/freight costs).
The more substantial cost for using the printing house as a short-run "publisher" seems more like a business/career move to me. If you want to make money as a writer then at some point you'll have to risk some monetary investment (yours or someone else's) and have faith. I'd look at it as a "marketing" expense: you'll never see the money again, it's gone, but if the product is good then there's no such thing as bad advertising and your investment will return and multiply. Successful entrepreneurs are the ones who gamble big (on successful products), you don't win every hand but you come out ahead if your strategy for playing the odds is good. And you can never win the jackpot at all if you don't play.
Given this mindset, it's not a scam, it's just the price of a service. Shop around, compare prices and services, just part of the price of "breaking in" to the industry I suppose. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Dec 2010 10:10:57 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 10:11:19
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| Christopher Paolini used to publish his books in Xlibris, if I'm not mistaken. But I think very rarely do writers achieve the success they crave when they resort to PODs. Note, however, that I'm not particularly into the what's-up and not in the world of PODs, so I could be wrong. It's just my own observation. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Topic |
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Hardbound, Paperback, or the Usual?
