| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mouse |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 08:24:33
So, I'm sure most of us have favorite villains in Faerun, but who's our favorite villain group?
Any group counts at all in this case, even if it's just one of the evil religions. For me it's a toss up between the Zhents and the Red Wizards: they're both sort of multipurpose villain organizations, able to do crime, evil armies, monsters, wizards, and mercantile/political plots to have the characters to unravel, and they're also both full of recognizable villains the PC's can both fear/aim to bring down. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 01:26:00
It's an iconic Thanatos armed with a killer scythe and the ability to reach through scrying devices. I'd honestly be surprised if canon stats haven't been written up, it's just too cool to leave undone. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 00:46:28
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Where might I learn more about this Entropic Reaper which threatened Szass?
You mean other than its brief appearance in Undead? [It threatened and attacked Tam when his spell (which was supposed to summon a 'dimensional mirror' or something to see the condition of the W and the SW) attracted it. Such unexpectedness was attributed to the SP.] |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 00:29:53
Where might I learn more about this Entropic Reaper which threatened Szass? |
| Quale |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 23:47:54
The Red Wizards have them, not sure about Malar |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 23:08:12
Oooh, blackened lightning ... I like it. Does Malar have black unicorns? |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 23:03:12
Its Talossan, you heathens! I'll smite any nay-sayers with blackened lightning! 
The Coiled Cabal are detailed in the excellent Serpent Kingdoms tome, and they are rumored to have many goals; they are rife with internal schemes and machinations to set a specific group of Overhoods up for world domination. One intriguing goal is their mission to reduce divine influence on Toril, both of the Yuan-Ti clerics of Sseth and human worshippers of the Fearunian pantheon. They go about achieving this by infiltration, sabotage and the spreading of misinformation so peoples attitudes turn against temples of gods and divine structures both societal and structural.
The Coiled Cabal have a firm hold on the politics of the Kingdom of Serpents in Najarra (the Western Heartlands) and have are second to the priests of Sseth in the Black Jungles of the South. They devised very evil curses and poisons that turn normal humans into snakelike abominations, some successful (like the Ophidians of the Serpent Hills) other less so (resulting in scaly mongrelmen: like prototype Yuan-Ti halfbloods/extaminaars).
I conjured up a horror story once for my campaign, containing a Yuan-Ti abomination grafted to his hooded neck with multiple Avariel wings, extra arms for spellcasting, poisoned snake-hair and multiple tails. He dreamed of ruling a network of snake infested city-states in Thindol and Sammarach but he had a distorted taste for human alcohols and vaporous drugs; that clouded his mind most of the times so his plans usually took years to come to fruition because he send his minions on missions to aquire more and more alcohol and opiates instead of their original missions of infiltration and assimilation.
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| Sandro |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 06:09:49
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I can't find any info on Talossans. Who are they?
Pretty sure they're worshipers of Talos.
I do refuse responsibility for misguiding you should that be wrong, though.
Actually, it's Talassan. 
Gotta love those disclaimers. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 05:29:08
Aha, that makes sense, and explains why I couldn't find it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 05:23:07
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I can't find any info on Talossans. Who are they?
Pretty sure they're worshipers of Talos.
I do refuse responsibility for misguiding you should that be wrong, though.
Actually, it's Talassan. |
| Sandro |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 03:47:55
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I can't find any info on Talossans. Who are they?
Pretty sure they're worshipers of Talos.
I do refuse responsibility for misguiding you should that be wrong, though. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 02:09:32
I can't find any info on Talossans. Who are they? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 23:08:28
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Ah, the little gems of evilness of small organizations in the Realms are definitely worth mentioning.
Besides, I like most of Fearuns evil churches: Cyric assassin cults led by strife sowing madmen, Talossan mobs led by lightning and fire wielding battle-clerics, Garagos blessed bloodpit-gladiators, Banites leading zentilar saboteurs. All very enjoyable for a DM to use and for a player to hack to pieces.
Yes, I have enjoyed using Talossans as well. I've liked having separate "arms" of their churches. You have the warpriest types who are skilled in physical combat. Then you have the mystic theurge types who combine divine and arcane magics. Then there's the rare mystic theurge type with a little spellsword (the rare ones who can get the militia feat) so that they can wear armor, use good weapons, and get all the spellcasting of both classes (and be a relative mystery to the PC's). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 22:39:10
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Hmmm. Your idea leads to vast lichy conspiracy theories which offer a lot of interesting possibilities. Larloch may have engineered Myrkul's ascension in the hopes of somehow influencing the God of Death, perhaps even in a tragically failed attempt at regaining his lost life. Then again, this sort of thinking might lead one to assume that Larloch somehow installed any (or all) of the gods who ascended, it might even explain why Cyric is such a yutz and goes insane after his new mantle of divinity breaks Larloch's programming.
Very amusing possibilities. Not impossible, but awfully hard to swallow. Wouldn't Ao smell Larloch-tainted mortals from a mile away and automatically reject their applications of divine promotion? Larloch enjoys a very special status and may have even clandestinely sipped some divine energy (as evidenced by the many worshippers he has at Candlekeep), but no matter how easily he can smear armies of mortals he's still quite feeble against the powers of angry gods.
Hmmmm, damn, this IS interesting. I was just theorizing that Larloch was pissed off by Velsharoon's rising to divine status. If Larloch had helped those three, perhaps Ao was the one that helped Mellifleur "accidentally" steal Bane's power?!?! Maybe Larloch had come across information on Mellifleur while he was in avatar form, and Ao's joke was to guide Talos into getting Velsharoon to perform a ritual that stripped the power from Mellifleur and Talos and raised up Velsharoon as lord of necromancy. In return, Ao led Talos to believe that this new inroad into the field of magic would open him up to taking on the mantle of "wild and destructive magic" under the mantle of Malyk. Thus, Talos hoped to create a new third weave similiar to the shadow weave controlled by Shar. Then came the spell-plague....... |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 22:25:43
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
You have an even more evil turn of mind than I do.
Coincidentally enough, I recently re-read that same passage while brushing up on Netherlore. But I interpreted the racing of Szass' absent heart as indicating a sense of anticipation rather than fear. After all, Szass would have prepared himself as well as possible for his encounter with Larloch (and being no fool he knows damned well that Larloch might possibly choose to destroy him with little effort and less provocation). But now the moment had arrived when the knowledge he hoped to attain would finally be revealed! I'd say Szass has some big crystal balls and "lives" for the visceral excitement these moments of triumph deliver in his otherwise bleak undying existence; he likes to live large and play for big stakes. Thus perhaps his seeming nonchalance about gambling his soul with Bane.
And yes ... maybe Larloch too has a certain need to liven up his dreary passage of years with something new and bold and dangerous. Maybe the last jaded sparks of vitality remaining within liches need to flare up and burn away the dusty weight of centuries from time to time to prevent their essence from decaying into demilichdom or madness. It could be the tragic price of immortality one endures when becoming a lich, perhaps a limitation of the liching process itself or the imperfect human vessel from which it begins. It could even be an intentionally designed or "programmed" flaw which fuels their passion for continued existence and their endless pursuit of magical perfection.
Or these guys could both just be stark raving bonkers.
I would be more inclined to believe that Szass and Larloch both have their own agendas and each believes he has manipulated whatever mutually beneficial arrangement they have to best serve his own interests before the other - but if a situation arises in which their goals are contrary or inimical then it is Larloch's more masterfully subtle manipulations which will likely prevail.
It is my fervent belief that one of the things that Larloch wanted from Szass Tam was information. Around that time a renegade red wizard who had been around during the formation of Thay had risen to divinity. What's more, said renegade red wizard had assumed the mantle of Mellifleur, lord of liches. Said renegade red wizard was also allying with Mystra to become the god of necromantic magic. Needless to say, I see neither Larloch or Szass Tam particularly enjoying this fact (particularly since I also believe that when Mellifleur was forced to take an avatar during the Time of Troubles, it was Larloch that he seized... well, co-habitated....). Thus, I believe Velsharoon's rising to divine status really irked Larloch and kicked him out of passivity and into working with Tam.
Now, some would say that Larloch could have just seized Tam and taken said information. Firstly, I don't believe it would have been child's play for even Larloch. Secondly, especially in information retrieval, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Thirdly, he established a useful "ally" of sorts.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 19:50:16
It ocurred in the era of "fil in the blanks yourself" - that is why we don't have any lore on what happened to HIM, or anything else during the timejump.
Creating lore forces any future designers to learn the lore, and part of 4e's agenda was to alleviate those "feelings of entitlement" that "older fans" (re: Grognards) have.
Not my words - that's what Chris Perkins said in that podcast (with that little smirk as he described the dismantling of the Realms as a 'good thing').
So, don't expect a lot of 'in-between' lore, because that's counter to their purposes. Even Rich Baker's series (which I am enjoying despite myself) glosses-over any details of the intervening years (he barely mentions the Spellplauge, EXCEPT when it pertains directly to the story). The closest we ever got to lore covering the 'lost century' was in Steven's Blackstaff tower, and even there all we got was a bunch of very vague hints.
For example, look at Brian's Cormyr article - there is almost nothing there that hasn't been covered before in previous Cormyr material - NOTHING about the new annexations ( ?!) or any details covering Marsember. Except for some very brief stuff on the royal line, its all old news. We still don't know what happened to 'New Tilverton', which Brian had on his map, but it was removed from the final version.
Authors won't give us any info because they are not supposed to - that's why it is the 'lost century'. Take it with a grain of salt. |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 20 Nov 2010 : 18:16:40
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I'm aware of the time-jump and the fact that Tam did teach him. But it wasn't shown in the books, just mentioned in passing. Hence, the abruptness. Heh, in book 2, there was not even a hint, AFAIK, that Malark planned on becoming a Red Wizard.
Well, the whole jump was abrupt. I don't see any reason to single out one aspect of it above the others. I know he showed no inclination, but a lot can happen in almost 100 years. I assume it was his plan once Tam showed a willingness to train him so he would be able to try to betray Tam at the very end. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 20 Nov 2010 : 17:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
dennis
I happen to like him in The Haunted Lands. Though I didn't like that he 'suddenly' became a Red Wizard. Spy fit him better than a wizard.
I think he's vital in Richard's attempt to show a character who is in many ways opposite to Szass Tam.
That's basically my only (but big) problem with Malark. He clandestinely taught himself the secrets of Red Wizardry, and developed sufficient mastery of the complicated magic and of himself to attempt a very difficult ritual ... even while superior zulkirlich Szass (with a head start of many months or perhaps even decades) was still diligently striving to achieve the über discipline needed to do this ritual himself. Malark is amazing and worldly and superbly competent, but he still ain't no Szass Tam and IMO he should have had zero chance as a new player bouncing the ball around in Szass' arena.
It's important to note that he's far older than Tam and his mind discipline is unlike no other. He even managed to break from Dmitra's powerful illusion during the war in the Keep of Sorrows. But then again, the transition from being a mere spy/monk to a Red Wizard was rather abrupt. And that's what I don't like about him. Richard left much to the reader's imagination.
Although it may not be enough time to totally master the Art, there was a pretty big time jump between books two and three (1385-1478). I would also assume that Tam had a hand in teaching him, directly or indirectly. He seemed to consider Malark a friend so I see no reason why he wouldn't help him. Nearly 100 years, the patience of an immortal coupled with the focus of a monk, and help from an archmage can go a long way towards making someone a capable wizard.
As far as the Kraken Society, where can I find information about them (or novel appearances)? I recall one of their agents in the Skullport in the first Cale trilogy but that's the only place I can recall seeing them.
I'm aware of the time-jump and the fact that Tam did teach him. But it wasn't shown in the books, just mentioned in passing. Hence, the abruptness. Heh, in book 2, there was not even a hint, AFAIK, that Malark planned on becoming a Red Wizard. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Nov 2010 : 16:26:18
The Cult of the Red Wizards of the Black Network of the Dragon?
Not to be confused with the Cult of the Red Network of the Black Wizards of the Dragon, or the Cult of Black Wizards of the Red Dragon Network, splinter factions within the same organization with whom their goals often conflict. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Nov 2010 : 16:20:16
I'd personally like to see more 'interconnectivity'.
For instance, I can't remember the specifics, but there is one person who is a member of two different evil organizations - I forget who, but I think one of the groups is the Kraken Society.
That's one of the things I like about them; because of their agenda, they CAN be a part of other groups (in fact, that makes their job easier).
I'd like to see a Zhent who is secretly a Red Wizard, or a member of the Rundeen (sp?) who is also in the Twisted Rune (or at least, operatives that work for several sides).
These groups don't always have to be at odds (except maybe the Zhents and Red Wizards) - it would serve their purposes better in some areas to 'split the costs', as it were, on certain operations.
The Zhents and Drow working together in Cormanthor was just such an excellent plot device - I would love to see more of that (although from what I understand, they performed laughably bad). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 06:46:28
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I forgot to reply to the OP in my other posts. I like the Shades and Red Wizards. Honorable mention to the Zhents.
I'm not sure if they count as a group since they're more like a whole race, but I liked what I've seen and would like to see a lot more of the Yuan-Ti.
The Coiled Cabal is run by the yuan-ti. It has a potential, I think. But it needs more 'air time.' |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 05:08:33
Ah, a complex ugly that one is. Thanx Wooly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 05:03:45
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
My mistake. Sadly I missed out on this (and many other freebies). What is their legal status now, in terms of downloading?
Cloak & Dagger was never one of the free downloads -- the free ones offered by WotC remain available, though they've moved the page with all the links off to some undisclosed location.
Cloak & Dagger was one of the many pdfs that were available on third-party sites, like Paizo and DriveThruRPG.com. Despite the agreements that those sites had with their customer, which allowed for multiple downloads over an extended period of time, those pdfs were removed when WotC made their decree.
The decree was a response to some 4E books getting pirated within hours of their release. It's entirely logical to react to the illegal sharing of a brand new product... Why this reaction extended to long out-of-print material has mystified many people. It's been pointed out more than once that those pdfs of older material continued to generate income for WotC, and it's also been pointed out that these pdfs were older material -- they weren't what was being pirated.
So before you ask those questions... No one here has been privy to the reasoning behind that move. 
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Wooly - strange that you see individual tomes more than collections. For me (eBay.ca) it is most often the exact opposite.
I completed my collection of FR stuff the first time by haunting eBay. Then I lost all that stuff, replaced much of it in one large chunk, and then turned back to eBay for the rest. I've been eyeballing FR stuff on eBay on a daily basis, for years... I do see lots, but those are most often either novels or related modules. I'd say that 9 times out of 10 -- including most of the times that I see Cloak & Dagger -- I see listing for individual items. |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 05:03:32
I forgot to reply to the OP in my other posts. I like the Shades and Red Wizards. Honorable mention to the Zhents.
I'm not sure if they count as a group since they're more like a whole race, but I liked what I've seen and would like to see a lot more of the Yuan-Ti. Maybe House Extaminos in particular. They've got cultists, half breeds (or is it purebloods?) that can pass for human for infiltration, and abominations and other monsterous members. On top of that, they seem to love experimenting with other creatures to make "new and improved" versions. Maybe I'm just a sucker for "snake men", probably why I like Cobra (from GIJoe) and the first Conan movie so much. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 01:32:42
My mistake. Sadly I missed out on this (and many other freebies). What is their legal status now, in terms of downloading?
Wooly - strange that you see individual tomes more than collections. For me (eBay.ca) it is most often the exact opposite. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 00:13:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Not an official download. 2E lore appears often at the gnomish eBay sites and similar trading grounds, though more usually as collected sets than as individual tomes. Much Kraken Society information of dubious reliability can be scried through the mystical google orb, though painstaking research can accurately piece together their hidden secrets.
There was an official download, but it was taken down when WotC invoked the "no legally selling pdfs!" decree.
And I more often see individual books on eBay, as opposed to lots. And I check every day, too.
There are also web enhancements for the book available as well, located here:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010327d |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 00:11:14
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The best info on the Kraken Society can be found in the very late 2E sourcebook "Cloak and Dagger".
-- George Krashos
Hmmm. I could've sworn another scribe already said that:-
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
My biggest beef with the Kraken Society is that they don't seem to do much besides deal in information to others. They're not much more than a bunch of wet-behind-the-ears vouyers, if ya ask me.... *snickers*
I prefer the entry for the Society in Cloak & Dagger, as it is far more informative, and elaborates greatly on just what the Krakenar are capable of. Plus, I've always been intrigued by just what Slarkrethel may have learned while he was plumbing the "depths" of lost knowledge in ruins and ancient sunken citadels. That appeals greatly to my ambitions of armchair-archaeology.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 00:10:35
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Signboard posted in Baldur's Gate
I'm hiring brave and sturdy adventurers who are willing to undertake a little raid on Candlekeep. Specifically to gain entry to the High Loremaster's inner sanctum and procure as many tomes as they can carry from his sacred "Wall o' Lore". Be wary of any scribes, monks, and sages encountered within the keep, particularly the more venerated ones or the strange wooly blue guardian beast which roams the halls, for they know secrets even the gods have forgotten and can command the very cosmos to bend to their will.
Scribbled underneath, in near non-legible script...
quote:
"Remain cautious, however, fellow scribe. It is said that the chambers of the Loremaster Most High is subjected to the unusual temporal-morphic effects of a phenomenon commonly referred to as 'SageTime.' This strange aspect could conceivably act as a trap or defensive mechanism for those foolish enough to enter without the proper spellkey/word."
And carved into the wood beneath the sign in badly written common -
quote:
Looking for gremlins and other small mischievous types to help cause unbridled chaos while humans are stupidly hacking at each other ---- Baadcôd, Fiendish Gremlin most-high
And this thread just allowed me to contemplate a new baddie for the Realms - a Shadgrym. Thats what happens when a shade procreates with a Malaugrym.
Think about it... while the Shades are trying to infiltrate and takeover much of Faerûn, they themselves could be infiltrated by others. The thought of the Malaugrym trying to seize power in Shade tickles me in ways no man of my girth should ever be tickled.
That's an intriguing possibility.
Hmmm. Perhaps there had been some previous conflict between the Castle of Shadows and the Shade Enclave while it was absent from the Realms. Maybe the Malaugrym feared the Shades were too powerful, so chose infiltration instead... as a means of conquering their foe.
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| Tyrant |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 00:07:31
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Not an official download. 2E lore appears often at the gnomish eBay sites and similar trading grounds, though more usually as collected sets than as individual tomes. Much Kraken Society information of dubious reliability can be scried through the mystical google orb, though painstaking research can accurately piece together their hidden secrets.
There was an official download, but it was taken down when WotC invoked the "no legally selling pdfs!" decree.
And I more often see individual books on eBay, as opposed to lots. And I check every day, too.
Thanks for the insights. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Nov 2010 : 23:46:16
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Not an official download. 2E lore appears often at the gnomish eBay sites and similar trading grounds, though more usually as collected sets than as individual tomes. Much Kraken Society information of dubious reliability can be scried through the mystical google orb, though painstaking research can accurately piece together their hidden secrets.
There was an official download, but it was taken down when WotC invoked the "no legally selling pdfs!" decree.
And I more often see individual books on eBay, as opposed to lots. And I check every day, too. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 18 Nov 2010 : 22:36:31
Not an official download. 2E lore appears often at the gnomish eBay sites and similar trading grounds, though more usually as collected sets than as individual tomes. Much Kraken Society information of dubious reliability can be scried through the mystical google orb, though painstaking research can accurately piece together their hidden secrets. |
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