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Jelennet Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 07:22:48
Mods, if you think that it is not the right place for this question just remove it...
Books about Harry Potter are very famous. I am not a big fan of them, but I'm still curious. Imagine that Harry was born in the Realms. Would he become a wizard or a sorceror? One the one hand kids in Harry Potter have an inborn talent for magic like sorcerors. On the other hand they study magic like wizards.
And what would be Harry's level in the Realms? And what would be Dumbledore's level in the Realms?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Dennis Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 06:54:57
quote:

Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

Who would you suggest it be about then? El? The Seven? Evermeet? There's a lot of choices, but very few that would have a broad appeal. My guess is that Drizzt would be the most popular choice, with El a close second. The Avatar books might make good movies, if a bit too obscure for some audiences.




For a first movie, I'd love to see the juxtaposed version of the first three Elminster books or the Netheril trilogy, provided of course that the heroes won't be a ridiculous blond barbarian and a demented she-elf.

I wouldn't want the Avatar books to hit the screen, at least not yet. It would appear confusing to non-FR fans, and if the director tries to (over)simplify the story, he'd only succeed in killing it.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 03:41:40
*Stands up and applauds MT.* Bravo. Well said, good sir. And I appreciate the encouragement!
Markustay Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 17:38:01
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

<snip>And I have tried to use that same sort of tying things together in my own writing, by adding bits from other stories into later ones, hopefully while still keeping each distinct enough to stand on its own.
Good plan - and good luck to you on your writing career. That format is why I eventually grew to love Ed's writing, even though I didn't care for it at first (Gasp!).

I was a fan of the novels (Drizzt) before really becoming a Realmsfan, and was still running GH in those early days of FR. Whereas Ed's novels referenced lots of esoteric stuff I didn't give a rat's arse about, RAS cut right to the chase and got down to the action.

As I started studying the Realms material I had (I bought everything TSR produced back then, regardless), I realized that those 'esoteric bits' were all part of a grander tapestry, and he was forever hinting at deeper secrets and greater knowledge long-forgotten (hence the theme of the setting). That is what made the Realms come to life for me. Lots of people can write a good yarn, but to create a living, vibrant world takes true talent.

You can't just be a writer - anyone with an education and a typewriter can do that. You need to be a storyteller. I think years of Ed being a GM helped him write his stories, because he had years of experience bringing them to life before he ever wrote his first full novel. You become immersed in the world itself, and story almost becomes secondary.

For instance, in the Harry Potter novels we don't just hear about Harry buying a wand at a wand shop - we actually go inside Ollivanders and see that choosing the right wand (it actually chooses you) becomes a time-honored process. Not only does he get his wand, but we find out a juicy little tidbit that goes with it. Rawlings dropped a 'Red Slipper' (great term I borrowed from Dennis L. McKiernan) - something she could pick-up later and run with.

And if writers like Rawlings and McKiernan have learned the secret of dropping said slippers, then Ed Greenwood has air-dropped Imelda Marcos' Shoe closet on us. That's why he gave the advice to Realms designers and authors that "For every secret you use and loose-end you tie-off, create three more". That's not advice for a casual author - that's advice for someone who wants to build a complex and living environment for their stories to take place in. Someone who plans on making a career out of bringing their characters to life.

That's long-term advice, and is probably the best piece of advice for an aspiring author I have read. You don't just want to write a story, you want your readers to crave more, and if you don't leave juicy tidbits lying around they are not going to get hooked. That's what Rawlings did - she didn't just write a story about Harry Potter - it may have ended there if she had. What she did was create a `A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery Inside an Enigma'. The tale may have been over, but the story was far from finished.

This is why I always smile ruefully when I see folks here crying about the NDAs - its those very NDAs (and the mysteries hiding beneath them) that keeps us coming back. How interesting would anything be, if we knew everything about it? Man is curious by nature, which is why we have science, philosophy, and the arts. Its what sets us apart from the animals. We don't just hide from a storm, we why to know what is causing it.

So weather you are a Realms designer or author, official or homebrew, or you have your own world you wish to write about and develop, keep those mysteries coming. Gygax built a game company around such things - would we have had the Circle of Eight if folks weren't curious about all those cool-sounding names attached to the spells? Name-dropping is key to world building, be it a location, item, or personage - they inspire us to learn more.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 17:13:58
Who would you suggest it be about then? El? The Seven? Evermeet? There's a lot of choices, but very few that would have a broad appeal. My guess is that Drizzt would be the most popular choice, with El a close second. The Avatar books might make good movies, if a bit too obscure for some audiences.
Dennis Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 16:07:36
I'd like to see a Realms movie - but not about Drizzt. Please. And not the direct-to-dvd type. A big-budgeted movie which the greater populace could appreciate. And perhaps one SCRIPT-WRITTEN BY ED HIMSELF, SO AS NOT TO DISAPPOINT US, REALMS-LOVERS.
Ayrik Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 08:09:34
Well ... that seems to have answered my question. Most of the richness of the Harry Potter setting seems to come from the novels (or at least the original author), not the movies.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 22:58:20
MT, I have to agree with you. I loved the earlier movies, but the later ones seemed to be missing a good amount of the details. Perhaps that's why the last book is being divided into two movies. And I have tried to use that same sort of tying things together in my own writing, by adding bits from other stories into later ones, hopefully while still keeping each distinct enough to stand on its own. A trilogy that does not necessarily have to be read as such, but is tied closely enough that one can see how each moves into the next. At least, that's how I TRY to work them. I'd really like to get them published when finished, just to see how well I succeeded.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 17:30:04
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The movies don't do the novels justice - they leave-out at least 50% of the background information, some of which is very pertinent to the stories.

Like the fact that it was Harry's father and his friends that created the Marauder's Map. A clever person might be able to figure it out from the movie... after watching it a dozen times. There are hundreds of tidbits like that that the movies completely ignore.

That's why I can't wait until the final movie - Rawlings went back and used every character and referenced almost every (seemingly) obscure scene to weave the ending of her tale. The butchery has been getting worse with each screen-adaption. Things they left out become very important to the final sequence of events.


You are so right... I felt that the sixth movie was made from an outline of the book, rather than from the book itself. Most of the same stuff still happened, but it happened way different than in the book.

I'd not put Harry Potter into the Realms, myself. I can see, however, some of the larger cities of the Realms having small magic academies for promising children. Maybe something that takes kids up to 5th level or so, and only has classes of a couple dozen.

I can see these schools being located in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Suzail, Velprintalar, and Eltabbar -- though all of these schools would of course be different, with different focuses, training styles, and a different idea of what made a worthy student.
Markustay Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 16:52:14
The movies don't do the novels justice - they leave-out at least 50% of the background information, some of which is very pertinent to the stories.

Like the fact that it was Harry's father and his friends that created the Marauder's Map. A clever person might be able to figure it out from the movie... after watching it a dozen times. There are hundreds of tidbits like that that the movies completely ignore.

That's why I can't wait until the final movie - Rawlings went back and used every character and referenced almost every (seemingly) obscure scene to weave the ending of her tale. The butchery has been getting worse with each screen-adaption. Things they left out become very important to the final sequence of events.

How anyone is going to make sense of that jumble of chaos is beyond me.

After reading the final book, I had to shake my head in awe. Either she had every last detail planned from the beginning, or she has an Ed-like way of weaving together disparate bits of lore into a seamless tapestry. I think, in both her case and Ed's, its a little of both. That's an innate knack that very few long-time authors ever develop. Isaac Asimov was the master of it - by the end of his life he had tied-together every novel he ever wrote, by filling-in books that took place during the absent eras, thus creating one long, over-arching storyline.

Truly Amazing.

The other end of the spectrum we have Wheel of Time, that runs in a hundred different directions at once, with very little tied together, and dozens of sub-plots get left hanging out to dry as apparent dead-ends. While I think Robert Jordan is an excellent writer, I feel he never had that knack for weaving the lore together that the great masters have. Its like each piece of information exists in a vacuum unto itself.

When you can write a scene and reference something that happened in another book you wrote 30 years earlier, then you can consider yourself a writer. If you publish a few books, then you are just an author... and its not really the same thing. I had a couple of professors that wrote their own books, hence they were published authors... but the writing was dry as a liche's arse.

Being able to assign your own work to your class sure is a lucrative way of making some good side-cash.

Reminds me of something... hmmm... can't quite put my finger on it..
Ayrik Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 05:31:00
Yeah, of course such a movie would be about Drizzt.

Although I'd rather see one about Karsus, myself.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 05:10:14
Well, there have been rumors off and on over the last several years about a movie or movies on the Icewind Dale or Dark Elf books. But that's all I've heard- rumors.
Ayrik Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 04:38:24
Sort of bouncing back towards OT here ...

The setting of the Harry Potter stories is richly laden with details and depth. Distinctive and imaginative yet (seemingly) self-consistent.

Is this primarily due to the novels or to the movies? If the latter, I wonder what sort of amazing lore a well-done Realms movie would offer ...
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 02:33:53
His Dark Warrior Rising is good so far, though!
Dennis Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 01:41:07
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

I see a little resemblance between Hagrid and Samas Kul. In corpulent stature, not necessarily in temperament.



Hagrid can be more fearsome than Samas when angered.


quote:

Originally posted by Red Walker

And you Should read a non fr Ed novel or three. Try the Falconfar novels, you will love Gar and Isk.....at least If you appreciate the old wolf that is.




Most of Ed's non-FR novels are a disappointment... Arch Wizard (Book 2 of the Falconfar saga) reminds of Becket's Waiting for Godot.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:54:39
Agreed. That last post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, BTW. In case it wasn't clear.
Ayrik Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:35:56
I didn't state it in such absolute terms. Some men and women do understand themselves and each other on emotional levels. But such understanding is not a prerequisite for writing a book; a fact which is often quite clearly evident.

I look at some of the stuff I wrote when younger and see that I was a full grown emotional child, lol.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:03:53
Agreed. Wait- women not understand male minds?! My Gods!! A revelation!! LOL!! And there is not a man alive who can truly understand women..... *snickers and smirks wickedly*
Ayrik Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 05:09:09
Agreed, it's not sexist to observe that female authors tend to portray emotions more comprehensively.

But I personally think they are more prone to oversimplify the emotional mindsets of their male characters. Or overcomplicate. Basically, it seems that some women, all their emotional insight notwisthstanding, just really don't quite understand what makes the male mind tick. Such male characters are typically purile boorish neanderthals or moody brooding philosophers, but they are rarely "normal" functional men.

Which is to say that that they fare much better than many male authors. Many men, while instinctively understanding the male mindset quite perfectly, just haven't got the slightest clue what the emotional motivations and processes should be in their female characters. Such female characters tend to basically be charicatures of manly ideals who entirely reject their "soft" feminine nature.

I'm not saying these character types aren't valid. But they do sometimes get a bit tiresome. I personally think the author's emotional maturity (often though not always linked with age/experience) is much more relevant than gender.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 02:53:21
Sexist? Not at all. There is a reason that most (if not ALL- I have yet to find one written by a male) romance novels are written by women. Women are naturally more in touch with their emotions. That's not sexism, it's simple fact. It's the nature of women to be nurturing and loving- at least in theory, though I've serious doubts about many women today. It's what a mother's role is. Of course, women also tend o have better control over their emotions, for that very reason. It takes a LOT of patience and self-control to deal with little kids every day! And this thread has now been thoroughly hijacked, lol! So- back to topic?
The Red Walker Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 02:03:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

That may have been the other one - not sure.

I also got 'misty' when Queen Amlaruil's husband died (and daughter).

Would it be sexist of me to say that I think women have a better bead on emotions then male author's do? Just in-general, mind you...



Yeah, it would be sexist of you, but not so blatant to be offensive

And you Should read a non fr Ed novel or three. Try the Falconfar novels, you will love Gar and Isk.....at least If you appreciate the old wolf that is
Markustay Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 19:52:26
That may have been the other one - not sure.

I also got 'misty' when Queen Amlaruil's husband died (and daughter).

Would it be sexist of me to say that I think women have a better bead on emotions then male author's do? Just in-general, mind you...
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 17:12:32
MT!! Bite your tongue, man! For shame.... Actually, the last FR book that got my waterworks going was the last book of the Starlight and Shadows- when Fyodor died for good. I really wanted him and Liriel to have a happily-ever....
Markustay Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 16:41:12
Good call - I would even use a pic of that house as a visual-aid if my players ever wandered into 'Harpel territory'.


*S*P*O*I*L*E*R* *A*L*E*R*T*



As for the novels, can't remember the first one (it was some time ago), but the more recent one was he last book of the first Erevis Cale trilogy. It was Jakk that did me in.

Although he was built to be the disposable comedy-sidekick, I grew attached to the little bugger. Paul did a bang-up job of making him deeper then a Jar-Jar Binks clown. The strange affection he and Riven somehow managed to devlope for each other despite everything was totally tear-worthy - quality writing.

In fact, it wasn't Jakk's death that got me going - it was the final scene and Riven's reaction to it that pushed me over the edge.

If Paul wrote a non-Realms novel I would read it. I can't even (at this time) say that about RAS or Ed.
The Red Walker Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 13:36:36
If the Weasly's were in the realms, they would have to be a branch of the Harpels....just look at that house of theirs...its screams Harpel!
The Red Walker Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 13:32:39
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Bella = the Shadowsil

Zhent chick wasn't border-line insane enough.

Harry and his friends are the Rawlings version of the knights of Myth Drannor. Humorous at times, grim at others, but hero's to the last.

And Rawlings has killed far more characters we cared about then all the Realms authors combined.

For children? I think not......

'Kiddy books' bring people back from the dead... like Wulfgar...

Life is full of sad endings, the Realms not so much. Pain is part of life, and until you have that connection with your characters they are just 2D cut-outs. Rarely do I 'feel' for them.

Only two Realms novels ever made me cry - now THATs writing, baby.



You can't say that without naming the novels....

spill it cry baby
Ayrik Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 09:05:10
Well, the Old Sage has briefly discussed Mirt's younger days in a few scrolls he submitted to CandleKeep (1 2), as well as some more Mirtlore here, and in several old tales, One Comes, Unheralded, To Zirta; A Slow Day In Skullport; and Nothing But Trouble which feature Mirt quite prominently. Much of what I know of Mirt is pieced together from the aforementioned 1e box set, wherein Mirt's name (and background history) is revealed circumlocutively through the descriptions written about his former companions and allies.

Mirt was born in the year 1966RL, making him older than ancient Zagyg.
The Sage Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 08:05:24
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

Yeah, old Mirt has been around since he first set up shop in a 1e box set. He manages to not only survive the horrible cataclysmic transitions between subsequent D&D editions, but somehow to steadily get a little richer, fatter, and greedier every time.

I'd love to read Ed's original Mirt short stories. As the Lady Hooded One has said:- "That's what they were all about, Matt: wheezing, aging, overweight main character who just can't do the heroics anymore, in stories that are laced with humour."
Ayrik Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 07:38:32
Yeah, old Mirt has been around since he first set up shop in a 1e box set. He manages to not only survive the horrible cataclysmic transitions between subsequent D&D editions, but somehow to steadily get a little richer, fatter, and greedier every time.
Alystra Illianniis Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 07:09:15
Wulfgar was never really dead, though. He ended up in the Abyss with Errtu. Actually, I was really bummed when Deudermont died. I liked the old salty-dog. Hagrid? Nah- that'd be Mirt, no question!! Maybe not sheer size, but....
Ayrik Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 05:52:18
I see a little resemblance between Hagrid and Samas Kul. In corpulent stature, not necessarily in temperament.

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