| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 21 Sep 2010 : 18:20:32
Just recently I watched a history program that dealt with the mineral 'salt' in Europe during the middle ages. Apparently salt was very important during that age - esp. for conservation of food, why it was referred to as 'white gold'.
I wondered how important the minarel is in the Realms. According to Aurora's Realms Catalog the ounce of salt is sold for 1 cp. This (IMO surprisingly low) price lets me believe that salt is a resource readily available in Faerun.
Which leads me to the next question: where is salt produced in the Realms?
Thanks for your replies,
Ergdusch |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 09:40:59
It makes me wonder if salt is mined and traded by Dwarves.
In RW, ancient Egyptians and Romans sent criminals and slaves to the salt mines, conditions very harsh, life expectancy very short. I'm not sure what conditions were like in medieval ages.
The salt lich is amusing. You can google salt mummy, digusting but plausible. |
| Kno |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 13:20:45
right, the Great Salt Lake. lol. The world's largest salt mine is under lake Huron. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 13:12:47
??
The Moonsea is a freshwater lake, like the American Great Lakes. It's not salty. |
| Kno |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 13:02:47
when the glacier retreated, the salt remained in the Moonsea, which causes crop failure |
| see |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 08:01:50
Salt's value goes up as distance from the ocean goes up. After all, it's not exactly complicated to extract it from salt water.
With the northern growing season being short (and thus preserving food being so important), there is probably massive demand for salt along the shores of the freshwater Moonsea. Maybe the cities have ample mines, of course. |
| Quale |
Posted - 26 Sep 2010 : 11:39:42
The Weave is a much better option than Ao. I've got no problems with the sci-fi elements being introduced, as long as they blend in and don't appear robotic and overly mechanical (e.g. the warforged in Eberron and Numeria in Golarion ruin it).
The Watercourse is the Fountainhead in the Realms. Personally I like when real world elements are introduced (except the Zhent Headless Horsemen). That's the only positive aspect that I remember, it tried to be different, and the Red Wizard villain wasn't bad, up until the end.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Then again, Capt. Kirk may have stuck around for awhile just for the Orc Women - he has a thing for green chicks
 |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Sep 2010 : 02:15:59
I have not read that trilogy - I was warned NOT to read it by 3 different people I trust and respect (you may have been one of them - its been awhile), and at some point someone actually quoted a passage from the book with the ingredients.
However, that is hearsay, since I actually didn't see the passage myself, but the others involved in the discussion (several of which had the books) did not object to the reference, so I take it as truth until proven otherwise.
I was also told that it was borderline plagiarism with some other work, which I am also unfamiliar with and can offer no opinion there.
I am now thinking that the 'Ban Dampening' spell would work better as a time-consuming ritual, and would also be of a sliding-scale nature.
Meaning that cast at different levels (by higher level priests), one can dampen the effects of the ban ranging from steam-tech (not sure if that is allowed) on up to gunpowder and then electricity (Steamtech) and perhaps even up to advanced stuff like micro-circuitry and atomics.
So, the example I gave in another thread of the Enterprise getting stuck in Realmspace may have a simple solution: it would have required a HIGH-level Gondsman to cast the Ban Dampener spell on the Warp Engines. 
Then again, Capt. Kirk may have stuck around for awhile just for the Orc Women - he has a thing for green chicks. If it was Picard's Enterprise, he may have been taken for a Red Wizard. 
EDIT Another theory I have is that the rules of Realmspace are directly tied to the Weave, including the ban and the now-defunct Godwall. This means that the 'spell' that dampens the effect of the ban may actually be a small, self-contained magic-dead zone. This means that tech may function normally within one of those zones, which would be kinda interesting from a world/campaign perspective; certain industries would flourish within them.
Or, if you wanted to have even more fun with it, you could say that Gond made a deal with Shar (he seems the type - read Prince of Lies), and the dweomer used on the Smokepowder is shadow-magic, which creates a field that blocks the weave (and the rules that govern it and Realmspace).
Which comes full-circle and actually makes some sense, given that in 3e we find-out that the Mulan gods really traveled through the Shadowfel (not Arcane Space) to reach Toril... which means that the godwall was NOT able to block anything coming from that plane. |
| Quale |
Posted - 25 Sep 2010 : 20:21:56
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In the Watercourse Trilogy, we find the ingredients of Smokepowder are sulphur, charcoal, and potassium nitrate (Saltpeter). 
Really, it's suppose to be secret. I've read that trilogy, but it's very forgettable. It's when that Ayn Randian character blows up the canal?
Ao and its rules are nonsense. Why would Red Wizards want gunpowder when they have those blast globes. In a high magic alternate 14th century Earth gunpowder would not break the balance. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Sep 2010 : 18:54:10
Great find, Gray - I always forget about that map. 
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
It also used for food preservation. Salts are not just NaCl. Ingredients of the smokepowder are secret, I don't know, but there is saltpeter for sure, just look into some spell material components.
In the Watercourse Trilogy, we find the ingredients of Smokepowder are sulphur, charcoal, and potassium nitrate (Saltpeter).
Which is why I theorized in two separate threads - here and at WotC - that Smokepowder and Black Powder are chemically identical, and the only difference is that Smokepowder is magicaly enchanted with a Gondian spell that 'bypasses' Ao's restrictions on tech.
The two are interchangeable within the SpellJammer rules - you can use both in the same weapon - the only difference being which sphere you are within as to which will function properly. No modifications to the weapons are necessary, further proving there really is no difference between the two other then the enchantment.
Neither works within Greyspace, IIRC, which makes me think that Oerthian Sages simply haven't figured-out the world-specific bypass magic (everything has a 'key', according to Planescape, which allows you to break the rules - you just have to find the right one).
Magic Spells themselves are specific keys to bend the laws of physics and reality, so it makes sense that spells are keys, and one is required to circumvent Ao's ban.
Anyhow, thats my take - they make Gunpowder and simply enchant it. Kara-Turrans have figured-out how to mass-produce it; they use normal labor to mix the ingredients and then bring in a magic-user to mass-enchant the stuff (thereby saving a lot of time for the enchanters, who have better things to do then spend half their life mixing compounds).
The Lantanese do not let out the 'secret' of its making, so do not risk allowing 'normal folks' to learn the formula. This is why it is much rarer and more costly within Faerūn then K-T; only Gond's prieshood and a few select others (like that Mary Sue in Watercourse) can manufacture the stuff.
The Thayans, BTW, have created a liquid chemical (Alchemical) equivalent that can be made with Arcane magic, but they are also not releasing its secrets. Although used in some of its earlier-model bombards, it has never been used in smaller arms, AFAIK. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 25 Sep 2010 : 16:46:19
According to the map of Trade Routes and Resources on pp. 88-89 of the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting sourcebook, salt is produced/mined in Samarach, Turmish, Sespech, and Chondath.
That's a pretty cool map, as it has little icons for a large variety of commodities and indicates with arrows who trades with who and where commodities are traded to. Goods like gold, cheese, wine, ale, cloth, olive oil, ivory, slaves, pearls, ambergris, grains, and many, many others are all listed.
It probably is not meant to be comprehensive, I am sure there are more sources of salt (and other goods) than are listed on the map, but it may give you an idea where the major sources are, or what areas are famous for what. |
| Quale |
Posted - 24 Sep 2010 : 10:57:39
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
there are a lot of spells that require saltpeter
Saltpeter? I thought we were only talking about salt. Besides, I have yet to hear of saltpeter in itself existing in the realms. I'm not quite sure what exactly goes into smokepowder (the Realms equivalents of gundpowder), so what saltpeter has to do with anything, that's beyond me.
It also used for food preservation. Salts are not just NaCl. Ingredients of the smokepowder are secret, I don't know, but there is saltpeter for sure, just look into some spell material components. |
| IngoDjan |
Posted - 24 Sep 2010 : 05:03:50
Magic!!! |
| Galuf the Dwarf |
Posted - 24 Sep 2010 : 04:05:42
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
there are a lot of spells that require saltpeter
Saltpeter? I thought we were only talking about salt. Besides, I have yet to hear of saltpeter in itself existing in the realms. I'm not quite sure what exactly goes into smokepowder (the Realms equivalents of gundpowder), so what saltpeter has to do with anything, that's beyond me. |
| Quale |
Posted - 23 Sep 2010 : 22:55:52
Anauroch exports salt, 30 gp a camel-slab, I think it's from the Shoal of Thirst and from the mines of the Sword, also Raurin (unexploited), Chondath (exports) and kuo-toa below Tethyr
merchants of Prespur have a spice similar to salt, preserves food even longer, tastes bad tough, and there's a packer guild in Waterdeep
and I remember Archendale sowed Sessrendale's fields with salt
in Kara-Tur there was a wizard of salt-zombies
nishruus and ankhegs don't like salt
there are a lot of spells that require saltpeter |
| Faraer |
Posted - 23 Sep 2010 : 22:38:29
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Ed has spoken on this subject in his scroll: Last year, if I recall correctly. He said something to the effect that salt wasn't the hard-to-find commodity in the Realms that it was in the RW.
This material then appeared in Power of Faerūn p. 69. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Sep 2010 : 21:45:10
I am not near sources, but I remember after a little research I found a similar creature in a core source - some sort of Lich in Sandstorm, that would work for the one found in kara-Tur. The creature dwells at the center of vast salt-flats, so anything having to do with 'the wastes' is applicable, IMHO. Not sure if it is a unique creature, but anything that can be made with magic can be duplicated.
I know of at least two 'Ice Liches', which sort-of proves that point. If there is one, there may be others.
As for the original topic, I vaguely recall an herb that helps preserve meat, IIRC, and it may have been in one of the EE booklets. |
| EltonJ |
Posted - 22 Sep 2010 : 15:59:36
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I know Kara-Tur has an abundance of the stuff - they even have a creature known as a Salt Lich.
Sorry, that was too funny after a long day at work  is there really a salt lick I mean Lich?
yes.
Although, I find ice mummies to be more otherworldly. |
| scererar |
Posted - 22 Sep 2010 : 03:18:18
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I know Kara-Tur has an abundance of the stuff - they even have a creature known as a Salt Lich.
Sorry, that was too funny after a long day at work is there really a salt lick I mean Lich? |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 21 Sep 2010 : 23:44:07
Ed has spoken on this subject in his scroll: Last year, if I recall correctly. He said something to the effect that salt wasn't the hard-to-find commodity in the Realms that it was in the RW. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 21 Sep 2010 : 23:05:59
Very interesting your thoughts. I thought about magics myself but than again i figured that most mages and clerics are not freely using their powers to aid the common folk without something in reward. However, for food, supplies and other neccessities (esp. worship in case of the churches) I see them working minor spells to make food last longer for a local village or some such. I doubt that they would use more powerful spells such as Create food and water or even Heroes feast unless in major crisis (and even than under political pressure only, as in Selgaunt during the Sembian Civil War as we could read in Twilight War trilogy).
But does this work for larger cities as well e.g. Suzail, Silverymoon and/or Waterdeep?
And what about places where the people tend to be less friendly with eachs other such as the Moonsea area or Calimport? I'd figure in such areas the common folk needs to rely on non-magical methods to preserve food.
I did not think about realms-specific herbs though, until now... |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Sep 2010 : 22:52:22
The food requirements in D&D is less then that of as Europe during the middle ages. The Realms has some appearances that are the same, however there are many differences.
As already indicated there is magic, there also exist herbs in the Realms that do not exist on Earth. Some of these certainly could be used in place of salt. There also can be cultural differences that tend of have people prefer other ways to preserve food. |
| Galuf the Dwarf |
Posted - 21 Sep 2010 : 20:29:11
Let's not forget: Salt may not be very important everywhere with spells that preserve or create food, at least in 3.X edition, such as Create Food and Water (3.5 Ed. PHB pgs. 214-215), Heroes Feast (3.5 Ed. PHB pg. 240), and Purify Food and Drink (3.5 Ed. PHB pg. 267).
Granted, not anyone could have access to said spells, but for all you know, clerics and druids could probably make use if these if under the employ - or in alliance with - local authorities, especially in times of famine. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Sep 2010 : 20:11:49
I know Kara-Tur has an abundance of the stuff - they even have a creature known as a Salt Lich. I doubt that the majority of it could be imported from that far away, considering the low price (although a great many spices ARE imported from the east).
Aside from Azulduth, I can't think of any place in particular off-hand that might produce salt. The subterranean nature of FR's Underdark may account for its cheaper price (availability may be much greater because of that). The existence of the Sea-races may also play a part. |
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