| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 11:01:00
Have you ever wondered what would happen should Szass Tam and Telamont come face to face? Surely they wouldn't sit at a table drinking tea or wine. It's just that an idea struck me when I recalled Hadrhune's plan to make himself a governor in Thay. Maybe it was Telamont's scheme after all, and not one of Hadrhune's lofty ambitions. Or both. Before Hadrhune was utterly destroyed, perhaps Telamont wanted his most trusted servant to establish a base in Thay and find a way to undermine Tam's forces and ultimately, Tam himself.
I like them equally, and should it come to the point when one needs to destroy the other in person, I still haven't made up my mind whom to choose as the victor. Perhaps Telamont's role as the Most High and supreme leader of the greatest (or most influential) power group in the Realms will rule out Tam's, but I'd like to think that Tam has also too many schemes yet unknown (other than his desire to remain the sole sovereign of Thay and his plan to become a god)--- schemes that reach and alter neighboring and distant realms one way or another.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 16:27:43
Telamont said in Shadowrealm:"There will be nothing to give if the Shadowstorm is not stopped. End it, Rivalen. Soon. Other matters in the heartland proceed apace. This is a distraction."
What are those matters in the Hearlands that seemed to be more important and urgent than stopping the Shadowstorm? |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 12:53:39
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Telamont is devout to Shar? I don't think so. If you could recall, Telamont once told Rivalen if he might be the right person to stop the Shadowstorm, knowing that he's the Nightseer and that the occurrence of the Shadowstorm was Shar's will. Had he been faithful to Shar, he would have left the Shadowstorm devastate Toril and watched as his dream of rebuilding Netheril die before his very eyes.
He stopped Brennus from revealing Rivalen's crime because his sons would take sides, and soon his family would crumble. He could not afford that, as, other than he cares about them, he needs them to help him fulfill his ambition.
By that logic, Had Rivalen been faithful to Shar, he would have thrown in with Kesson Rel, allowing the shadowstorm to go on unabated. Illogical.
In that scene when Rivalen was contemplating on what to do with the Shadowstorm, it was said the prince was at war with the priest---two roles he performed. But he reached a middle ground: By delaying the Shadowstorm, his father would be able to rebuild Netheril, and when that happens, he'll make sure the Shadowstorm devours everything.
While he is loyal to Shar, he gives enough importance to his station as a prince, and to the empire.
Ergo, what he did was not illogical.
In either case, it is no different from Telamont ordering him to do something about it. Saying Telamont is not a follower of the lady because he stopped her shadowstorm is the same as saying Rivalen is not her follower for the same reason. Both follow her designs, but in ways that allow them to follow their own first. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 06:31:27
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
I myself did once attempt to lay spells of divination within Thultanthar. Each, no matter how deviouslt placed, twas implacably traced back to the simulacri whence they originated! Twas not for many years did I learn, through infernal contacts within the court of Duke Mephistopheles, that the Most High is fully aware of all that transpires in Shade Enclave. Prince Brennus' Divination Chamber foremost.I
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Telamont is devout to Shar? I don't think so. If you could recall, Telamont once told Rivalen if he might be the right person to stop the Shadowstorm, knowing that he's the Nightseer and that the occurrence of the Shadowstorm was Shar's will. Had he been faithful to Shar, he would have left the Shadowstorm devastate Toril and watched as his dream of rebuilding Netheril die before his very eyes.
He stopped Brennus from revealing Rivalen's crime because his sons would take sides, and soon his family would crumble. He could not afford that, as, other than he cares about them, he needs them to help him fulfill his ambition.
By that logic, Had Rivalen been faithful to Shar, he would have thrown in with Kesson Rel, allowing the shadowstorm to go on unabated. Illogical.
Telamont had only cursory knowledge of the Shadowstorm, and Hadruhne's divination, revealing a Sharran at the root. Rivalen had full knowledge of what the shadowstorm was and still stopped it by delaying it.
It was mentioned either or both in RotA and the TW that Telamont knows everything that transpires within his city. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 05:30:18
I myself did once attempt to lay spells of divination within Thultanthar. Each, no matter how deviouslt placed, twas implacably traced back to the simulacri whence they originated! Twas not for many years did I learn, through infernal contacts within the court of Duke Mephistopheles, that the Most High is fully aware of all that transpires in Shade Enclave. Prince Brennus' Divination Chamber foremost.I
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Telamont is devout to Shar? I don't think so. If you could recall, Telamont once told Rivalen if he might be the right person to stop the Shadowstorm, knowing that he's the Nightseer and that the occurrence of the Shadowstorm was Shar's will. Had he been faithful to Shar, he would have left the Shadowstorm devastate Toril and watched as his dream of rebuilding Netheril die before his very eyes.
He stopped Brennus from revealing Rivalen's crime because his sons would take sides, and soon his family would crumble. He could not afford that, as, other than he cares about them, he needs them to help him fulfill his ambition.
By that logic, Had Rivalen been faithful to Shar, he would have thrown in with Kesson Rel, allowing the shadowstorm to go on unabated. Illogical.
Telamont had only cursory knowledge of the Shadowstorm, and Hadruhne's divination, revealing a Sharran at the root. Rivalen had full knowledge of what the shadowstorm was and still stopped it by delaying it.
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| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 02:20:58
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Telamont is devout to Shar? I don't think so. If you could recall, Telamont once told Rivalen if he might be the right person to stop the Shadowstorm, knowing that he's the Nightseer and that the occurrence of the Shadowstorm was Shar's will. Had he been faithful to Shar, he would have left the Shadowstorm devastate Toril and watched as his dream of rebuilding Netheril die before his very eyes.
He stopped Brennus from revealing Rivalen's crime because his sons would take sides, and soon his family would crumble. He could not afford that, as, other than he cares about them, he needs them to help him fulfill his ambition.
By that logic, Had Rivalen been faithful to Shar, he would have thrown in with Kesson Rel, allowing the shadowstorm to go on unabated. Illogical.
In that scene when Rivalen was contemplating on what to do with the Shadowstorm, it was said the prince was at war with the priest---two roles he performed. But he reached a middle ground: By delaying the Shadowstorm, his father would be able to rebuild Netheril, and when that happens, he'll make sure the Shadowstorm devours everything.
While he is loyal to Shar, he gives enough importance to his station as a prince, and to the empire.
Ergo, what he did was not illogical. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 02:10:35
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Telamont is devout to Shar? I don't think so. If you could recall, Telamont once told Rivalen if he might be the right person to stop the Shadowstorm, knowing that he's the Nightseer and that the occurrence of the Shadowstorm was Shar's will. Had he been faithful to Shar, he would have left the Shadowstorm devastate Toril and watched as his dream of rebuilding Netheril die before his very eyes.
He stopped Brennus from revealing Rivalen's crime because his sons would take sides, and soon his family would crumble. He could not afford that, as, other than he cares about them, he needs them to help him fulfill his ambition.
By that logic, Had Rivalen been faithful to Shar, he would have thrown in with Kesson Rel, allowing the shadowstorm to go on unabated. Illogical.
Telamont had only cursory knowledge of the Shadowstorm, and Hadruhne's divination, revealing a Sharran at the root. Rivalen had full knowledge of what the shadowstorm was and still stopped it by delaying it. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 02:04:32
Telamont is devout to Shar? I don't think so. If you could recall, Telamont once told Rivalen if he might be the right person to stop the Shadowstorm, knowing that he's the Nightseer and that the occurrence of the Shadowstorm was Shar's will. Had he been faithful to Shar, he would have left the Shadowstorm devastate Toril and watched as his dream of rebuilding Netheril die before his very eyes.
He stopped Brennus from revealing Rivalen's crime because his sons would take sides, and soon his family would crumble. He could not afford that, as, other than he cares about them, he needs them to help him fulfill his ambition. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 01:50:52
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Indeed. And I don't think he blamed Rivalen for committing matricide. 'Tis Shar he blamed. I postulated before, considering how much he loved (and still does) his wife, he must have been secretly plotting his revenge, helping Shar's enemies.
I disagree. Telamont seems fairly devout to the Lady. He feels they owe her much and seems to be pretty deppresed a person, thinking all they have left is restoring Nethril with Alashar gone. The sole reason he did not kill Rivalen was because Shar revealed it to him and demanded he not kill him.
Other than that short story, the only other time we see them together is in the story, the Lady and the shadow
His display of feelings towards Brennus came to a head when he was shaking him by the throat, and saw Brennus crying and released him, saying "forgive me Brennus" |
| Dennis |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 23:40:02
Indeed. And I don't think he blamed Rivalen for committing matricide. 'Tis Shar he blamed. I postulated before, considering how much he loved (and still does) his wife, he must have been secretly plotting his revenge, helping Shar's enemies. |
| Quale |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 23:05:14
he cares with a tiny bit of his soul that remains, that is not replaced by shadowstuff
Telamont probably thinks Rivalen is a lost cause, but fears to kill him cause it would cost him his humanity |
| Dennis |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 22:11:30
He'd let them rule a nation or two, but he would always be in supreme command of all, like what he did to Rivalen. The now-turned-exarch son "supervises" Sembia, but the final say still comes from his father.
Speaking of his sons, I wonder if Telmont still cares about them, not as one cares about his tools or prized possessions, but as a real father cares about his children. Yes, he once threatened Brennus when the latter said he'd spill the secret about his mother's murder. But Telamont might just be worried that their sons might kill each other, consequently lose them, and ultimately make him alone and lonely. Hah! Maybe I'm reading way between the lines. |
| Quale |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:55:07
well, it seems to me that Telamont's promises to his sons were empty, just to get them going
like the nazis dreamed of dividing the world among themselves |
| Dennis |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:45:26
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
And Telamont is not? So what then do you call someone who does everything to establish a continent-spanning empire, killing without compunction anyone who stands in the way, crushing foes and servants alike? A compassionate person?
He's no fool and knows his limitations, they spied Faerun for centuries and then settled above Anauroch.
Knowing one's limitation is not outside the province of megalomania. They all wish to succeed in whatever twisted ambition they have, so megalomaniacs need to be calculating. But of course, that doesn't guarantee them of success. Take Tam and Sammaster for example, and yes, you may also include the Cockroach in the lot. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:47:55
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Shadow Weave is a shadow of the Weave. It is inherently less than the Weave -- the Shadow Weave cannot exceed the capabilities of that which it exists within. The Shadow Weave has the same limitations as the Weave, plus its own limitations.
I'd recommend reading both Ed and Rich's take on this. As I recall, they're both stored here in the various reply files at Candlekeep. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:47:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Shadow Weave, as a shadow of the Weave, is indeed less powerful than the Weave. It can't exceed the Weave, and in some ways, fails to match it.
The point?
I don't recall mentioning otherwise. What I said was the W has a Ban, while the SW has none, hence Telamont is able to utilize high-level spells that might otherwise have been impossible had he used the W.
The point is that if the Weave can't do it, the Shadow Weave can't, either.
Which is also canon fact. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:24:19
I think I it was mentioned in The Haunted Lands that Tam retained all his spells he learned when he was still alive. 'Twas in Undead, I think. Anyway, thanks, Erdrick. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:18:06
Lichnee retain their eldritch acumen; they must 'meditate' for 1/3 turn of Toril before they can infuse their minds with the power of Spells.
In most ways, lichnee cast spells as do mortal mages.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Just a point of clarification:
One of the Ban's effects is that all spellcasters have to spend time memorizing spells and are limited to holding a certain number of magical spells in their head at a given time. I seem to recall liches retain all their spell-knowledge gathered when they were alive and could easily use them without having to relearn them over and over again. But should they attempt to learn and cast new spells, they are still restricted by this rule, right?
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| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:11:54
Just a point of clarification:
One of the Ban's effects is that all spellcasters have to spend time memorizing spells and are limited to holding a certain number of magical spells in their head at a given time. I seem to recall liches retain all their spell-knowledge gathered when they were alive and could easily use them without having to relearn them over and over again. But should they attempt to learn and cast new spells, they are still restricted by this rule, right? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 22:20:20
Correct. The Ban keeps the old spells from being cast the way they once were, and forces casters to have to develop and cast those spells in a new and more difficult fashion. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 20:39:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Aye, Epic Spellcasting tis a method Mystra allows to overcome the Ban.)
Indeed. The epic version of Move Mountain is not the same as the 10th level spell Proctiv's Move Mountain.
I see. I thought the Ban prohibits all powerful spells. With a little research, I found out that epic magic was not affected by Mystra's Ban. Hence, it's not a wonder Telamont can---should he want or need to---create another floating enclave. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 20:31:09
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Aye, Epic Spellcasting tis a method Mystra allows to overcome the Ban.)
Indeed. The epic version of Move Mountain is not the same as the 10th level spell Proctiv's Move Mountain. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 20:11:44
Aye, Epic Spellcasting tis a method Mystra allows to overcome the Ban.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Ye have answered thine own question, good Scribe dennis! It is difficult to raise mythallar; but nae impossible, in the Year of Lightning Storms. The Most High could certainly raise another, but 'tis easier to recover those lost. Tis also a way for Netheril to be re-born, nae re-built!
(tis called Epic Spellcasting, an eldritch system which circumvents th'Ladies Ban)
Well, at least I was able to unearth the possibility that the Ban's restrictions are not absolute. Mytra's Ban was SUPPOSED to keep anyone from using that spell (can't remember the name atm) intended for cleaving a mountaintop, creating a mythallar, and utilizing the said tool to raise the enclave. But it seems like Telamont is an exception to this rule, or rather has found ways to be exempted from it.
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| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:50:10
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Ye have answered thine own question, good Scribe dennis! It is difficult to raise mythallar; but nae impossible, in the Year of Lightning Storms. The Most High could certainly raise another, but 'tis easier to recover those lost. Tis also a way for Netheril to be re-born, nae re-built!
(tis called Epic Spellcasting, an eldritch system which circumvents th'Ladies Ban)
Well, at least I was able to unearth the possibility that the Ban's restrictions are not absolute. Mytra's Ban was SUPPOSED to keep anyone from using that spell (can't remember the name atm) intended for cleaving a mountaintop, creating a mythallar, and utilizing the said tool to raise the enclave. But it seems like Telamont is an exception to this rule, or rather has found ways to be exempted from it. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:41:50
Ye have answered thine own question, good Scribe dennis! It is difficult to raise mythallar; but nae impossible, in the Year of Lightning Storms. The Most High could certainly raise another, but 'tis easier to recover those lost. Tis also a way for Netheril to be re-born, nae re-built!
(tis called Epic Spellcasting, an eldritch system which circumvents th'Ladies Ban) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:18:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Shadow Weave, as a shadow of the Weave, is indeed less powerful than the Weave. It can't exceed the Weave, and in some ways, fails to match it.
The point?
I don't recall mentioning otherwise. What I said was the W has a Ban, while the SW has none, hence Telamont is able to utilize high-level spells that might otherwise have been impossible had he used the W.
The point is that if the Weave can't do it, the Shadow Weave can't, either.
If that’s the case, then why did Paul (or whoever from WotC told him to write it) entertain the idea that Telamont MIGHT be able to do something with the Ban to utilize high-level spells necessary in erecting another enclave? Below is the reference taken from Shadowbred. Highlight is mine. Note that instead of IMPOSSIBLE or other related terms, he opted to use DIFFICULT, which is far from being similar to impossible. Ergo, despite the Ban, the Most High can make another enclave, but since it’s difficult---perhaps requiring too much of his own strength that would consequently render him vulnerable---he chose to search for the fallen enclaves instead. And Ironically, I answered my own question: Given Telamont's near-boundless capabilities, why does he not create SW-based mythallars?
quote:
The Shadovar of Shade Enclave could repair a damaged mythallar, could use magic to rebuild a city in a month, but Mystra's Denial—an edict issued by the goddess of magic in response to Karsus's Folly, an edict that prohibited the casting of certain powerful spells once common in ancient Netheril—made it difficult for even the Most High to cast the spell necessary to remove the top of a mountain and use it as a base for a floating city.
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| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:00:48
A fascinating interpretation, Scribe Rupert!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Shadow Weave is a shadow of the Weave. It is inherently less than the Weave -- the Shadow Weave cannot exceed the capabilities of that which it exists within. The Shadow Weave has the same limitations as the Weave, plus its own limitations.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 18:59:34
The Shadow Weave is a shadow of the Weave. It is inherently less than the Weave -- the Shadow Weave cannot exceed the capabilities of that which it exists within. The Shadow Weave has the same limitations as the Weave, plus its own limitations. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:25:38
This t'would indicate that Mystra has placed a ban on the Shadow Weave as well... has'est she?
Fore, if the Weave we're mighty, say crank'eth'ed upon 11...
and the Shadow Weave were less might,y sayeth maximally cranked upon reaching 10...
and then Mystra turneth'ed down the Weave, say upon 9...
wouldest'nae the volume of the Weave of Shadow then exceed the Goddesses' Weave?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Shadow Weave, as a shadow of the Weave, is indeed less powerful than the Weave. It can't exceed the Weave, and in some ways, fails to match it.
The point?
I don't recall mentioning otherwise. What I said was the W has a Ban, while the SW has none, hence Telamont is able to utilize high-level spells that might otherwise have been impossible had he used the W.
The point is that if the Weave can't do it, the Shadow Weave can't, either.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:20:50
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Shadow Weave, as a shadow of the Weave, is indeed less powerful than the Weave. It can't exceed the Weave, and in some ways, fails to match it.
The point?
I don't recall mentioning otherwise. What I said was the W has a Ban, while the SW has none, hence Telamont is able to utilize high-level spells that might otherwise have been impossible had he used the W.
The point is that if the Weave can't do it, the Shadow Weave can't, either. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:07:48
Indeed. The sheer number of the Sembians, who also have a considerable number of wizards and clerics, might be a challenge to Shade had all of them united. Telamont must have clearly seen that, so he opted instead to have Rivalen stir up some intrigue to foster political instability. Why use magic and might when brains would prove more than enough? |
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