| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jakk |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 06:47:28
...is called so because it was a punny name, and primarily because it is an entirely appropriate name for the project it describes.
This scroll is for the primary purpose of creating a unified conception of the mysterious southeastern continent of Toril, as well as the outlying islands scattered across the globe, so that we might have something consistent to work with for all of our campaigns.
I've started this scroll primarily because our fellow scribe HandsomeRob is producing an absolutely amazing map of Toril, and the largest area devoid of physical geography is "the land [I hope formerly] known as Osse"; the following exchange between myself and The Sage explains all:
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Another question for you, Sage, for purposes of Rob's map... how much canon lore is out there on the physical geography of Osse, Myrmidune, and the other smaller lands both in the Great Sea and north of Anchorome?
Osse:- All we know about the land itself has been revealed in the Lady of Poison novel -- part of "The Priests" series. Aside from a few obvious examples in the book, I usually don't agree with many who say that Osse is a direct translation of, or heavily influenced by, Australian Aborigine culture. Gunggari's mannerisms aside [as well as his dizheri], it could be said that the supposed "ways" of the Osse people could very well be associated with many other examples of Polynesian tribal cultures. I always thought the actual name "Osse" was a bit of a joke as a matter of fact...
If the translation works for you, however, then determining the geography of the region shouldn't be all that difficult.
...
Myrmidune:- There isn't much, beside what's in the fourth Volume of the Candlekeep Compendium.
...
Other smaller lands in both the Great Sea and north of Anchôromé:- You might actually have more luck asking Brian James, as he's had some brief thoughts on this himself.
First two questions:
1) Are we content with the name "Osse" or do the locals call it something else?
2) Are the locals another Earth-culture ripoff or something new and different? I like door #2 myself, having done away with the Old Empires of Unther and Mulhorand in my Realms (they're part of Thay now).
Link to HandsomeRob's zoomable Toril map (showing areas not yet mapped physically in grey): here
Links to previously-created non-canon geography:
WaterdeepMUD - Cruoris
Toril - a blog
The map of Toril associated with said blog
Toril by Patrakis of Candlekeep (it's an 8.64MB PDF file, so be patient; it's worth the wait)
In all cases above, every attempt has been made by the cartographers in question to adhere to canon for areas already mapped in canon published materials.
What we're looking for here is twofold:
(a) a description of the new continent ("Osse" for the time being, I suppose) in as many aspects as possible that is up to the standards of the Candlekeep Compendium;
(b) a version of the physical geography of both that continent and the outlying islands that is popular enough among the scribes of Candlekeep for HandsomeRob to feel that it is worth his time to include in his epic map of Toril and complete the geography of this world.
I would create a poll for voting on the geography, but to be fair, I would have to include Markustay among the candidates, even though he hasn't yet tackled Osse, simply because of the quality of his past work; the problem for me there is, I'm not sure where the majority of his maps are being hosted now (if anywhere). MT? If you're still stopping by occasionally, now's a good time to pop in and comment.  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Werthead |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 13:06:52
Confirmation that the mountain range placement on Anchorome, Katashaka and Osse was canon (at the time), coming from artists at TSR who gave the map roughs to ProFantasy (from the CG thread):
quote:
The dark textured lines on that second one are indeed where the mountains (red lines) were marked. I never had time to get other textures splotched around on the blank areas, though. You can still see the round edges of the brushes where I scribbled over the original lines. Note that there are some lines in the upper ice caps where there should be mountains as well.
That may be of interest in future attempts to map those continents. |
| Werthead |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 12:35:13
From Waldronate (who worked on the FRIA) on the Cartographer's Guild thread:
quote:
I dug into the archives and the disk label actually says "WotC / TSR - FR Overland Scans - CONFIDENTIAL - NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED". There are a bunch of FR overland maps and 4 1600ishx1000ish images that have a tectonic map, a physical map (caostlines with previously and newly mapped), mountains & reefs, and "Areas of Special Interest" that has a set of alphabetic labels without a key (there's undoubtedly a key, just not on the disk). The date on the files is 3/31/1999, but I expect that's when they were written to the CD.
I have no idea what those straight lines were supposed to be. They were in the "areas of special interest" map.
There were a great many folks that did a lot of good work redrawing those maps for the viewer. I did the little Globe program that came with the product, including piecing together the image maps and drawing the national maps (I screwed up in a few places, too). The pretty map in the intro animation was done by an artist at WotC/TSR. The ugly globe map that is solid colors with what looks like the 1st Ed FR wall map and Maztica maps pasted onto them (because that's what happened) was my fault. If the version with the red lines and greenish hatched areas off the coast made it to production (I don't recall any more), then the notations were from the mountains and reefs map with the asterisks indicating tectonic hotspots.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 02:31:50
Thank You for stopping by and sharing this information with us. |
| Werthead |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 02:07:45
This project seems to be fairly inactive, but I noticed you'd linked to my blog on the first page, so I thought it polite to stop by, say hi and provide some more info.
quote:
Toril - a blog
The map of Toril associated with said blog
As you guys guessed, that map was taken from the 1999 FORGOTTEN REALMS INTERACTIVE ATLAS by ProFantasy. I'm also a member at Cartographer's Guild, and was surprised by the news that the weird lines on Osse were canon and created by TSR, not anyone at ProFantasy. Unfortunately, legal issues mean that the original 'source materials' provided by TSR for the project - though still intact - remain the property of WotC and can't be shared with fans, which is a bit of a shame.
That got me thinking, as there is a second set of globe maps on the FRIA. This set is more of a political map and was apparently partially assembled from the 1E FR and KARA-TUR maps, and the 2E Maztica and Zakhara stuff. What is interesting is that it shows the placement of mountain ranges on Osse and the other 'new continets' (maybe-Anchorome and Katashaka). I assume this comes from the same team at TSR who did the 'satellite map', so is also canon, or at least was their thinking of canon back in 1999. This map can be seen here:
http://www.aulddragon.com/albums/stuff/lods3a.jpg
That may or may not be of any use. It's difficult to say without knowing under the full context of how the full 'world map' was created at TSR (was Ed Greenwood involved, etc). |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 03:23:23
-I read through about 75% of this, and just want to say (belatedly?) good work on everyone's part. It's cool to see ideas that were thrown against the wall get developed independently. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 01:11:17
I'm hoping to get stuff assembled for it as well, now that I have a bit more time to work on it. Today is my first visit to the 'Keep in about a month; has anybody heard from Rob lately? |
| Darkmeer |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 04:50:52
Sorry. Computer still broken. I have about half as much as I wanted typed, I'm trying to shoot for the end of August at this point, as I have a wedding, Gen Con, and a few other things to contend with.
/d
|
| louis_bowwow |
Posted - 01 Aug 2010 : 07:53:37
Is this project still going? I have enjoyed following it and would hate to see it die. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 03:20:59
Thanks u 2, I'm sure Ill keep peeking
in once in a while, u just don't give
up crack on the first time u know.
Beside, there will always be threads that
will need my particular type of derailment
methods. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 15:07:57
Sorry to hear your leaving, but hoping to hear from your again in the future! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 06:11:38
We're sorry to see you go. You'll always be welcome in these halls. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 23:20:21
Its not for the changes or anything like that, but, its it inhibiting my spiritual
growth and is a point of contention in my marriage. so it time to get out.
My thanks to everyone who made reading stuff so interesting, and to those writings
made worlds like these possible. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 21:29:56
Understand completely AA, but sorry to see you go. I find myself less and less comfortable around here and elsewhere as well. Guess it truly is time for a 'changing of the guard', as it were.
We are all here because we fell in love with Ed's world, which has steered away from his vision; not for any 'nefarious' reasons, but because this is how such things work - all good things.... 
I have been through it with Greyhawk, and have seen never-ending streams of books ruin novel-settings time & again. Sometimes one needs to know when to simply walk away.
Live long and prosper, Althen Artren.  |
| althen artren |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 21:02:40
Just wanted u to know that I am getting out of D&D for good. so
take my name off the credits. for the most part I will be disappearing
out of the keep, maybe will lurk once in a while. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 06:00:57
That's the same map I have... mine is slightly bigger, I think. Those lines across Osse are definitely interesting...  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 23:44:43
New Link
I had the same map in the FRIA folder. Kinda small, but you can see some detail. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 23:23:27
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Update:quote:
by Waldronate at the Cartographer's guild Forums
Way back when (at the time that the FR Interactive Atlas was in development), I got a disk of source material scans that I used to make the maps for the FRIA's globe thingy. In that list was a set of black and white work maps showing land mass outlines, tectonics, glaciation, reefs, and so on. The source map I used for those images has major reef areas marked and they sort of filled in space between the islands in Zakhara in the rough outline I did.
The world map at http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2009...en-realms.html looks to be from the FRIA globe set (done by an artist at TSR). It has pretty much the same configuration as the map I posted above and also has some very odd straight lines in the rightmost continent that were present on the "Areas of Special Interest" map from the source material set.
It appears those weird lines across Osse are canon. 
I thought that was just a glitch, but this guy says they were marked 'areas of interest'.
Hmmmmm.... Massive canal system?
Anyhow, I never thought Zakhara was that Mountainous. Weird.
(in best Red Dwarf "Holly" voice) "Your link's dead, Mark."
From your description, I think I have a copy of this map, tho... downloaded from somewhere found via Google Images search earlier this year.
Interesting to know that about the lines across Osse... I didn't know what to think of them, but canals were the first thing that came to my mind as well. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 07:43:12
Update:quote:
by Waldronate at the Cartographer's guild Forums
Way back when (at the time that the FR Interactive Atlas was in development), I got a disk of source material scans that I used to make the maps for the FRIA's globe thingy. In that list was a set of black and white work maps showing land mass outlines, tectonics, glaciation, reefs, and so on. The source map I used for those images has major reef areas marked and they sort of filled in space between the islands in Zakhara in the rough outline I did.
The world map at {New Link} looks to be from the FRIA globe set (done by an artist at TSR). It has pretty much the same configuration as the map I posted above and also has some very odd straight lines in the rightmost continent that were present on the "Areas of Special Interest" map from the source material set.
It appears those weird lines across Osse are canon.
I thought that was just a glitch, but this guy says they were marked 'areas of interest'.
Hmmmmm.... Massive canal system?
Anyhow, I never thought Zakhara was that Mountainous. Weird. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 02:21:20
New link with early FRIA map
There you go, Wooly. I'm trying to get more out of the guy - hopefully we will be able to discover some hitherto undisclosed FR lore. 
@Jakk:
Darfellans are human-sized and in Stormwrack, pgs.37-39
Ocean Striders are giant-sized and appear in 3e MM2, pgs.163-164 |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 00:19:02
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I was able to talk with the guy who did the world map for the FRIA!
It seems he had a LOT more source material to work with, and they chose not use most of it (he mentions how the guy working on the globe used quite a bit more then he did).
Take a look at this map - he was demonstrating to me a possible placement for Returned Abeir that doesn't interfere with the existing world map (which I knew about already - it is way smaller then Maztica). Anyway, the Laerakond add is not what is so important about this early FRIA map - note all those extra land masses!
Looks like I got me a LOT of Islands to add... so does Rob. 
Can the map be viewed by non-members of that forum? I'm not a member, and I can't get to it. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 22:49:52
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There are two different races (from different 3e splats) that look like 'Killer Whales' (Orcas) that might be an unusual nemesis for the Sahuagin of this region.
<snip>
Do you recall which books those races were from, MT? I'm guessing one was Stormwrack... I'll check that source out now. As of this past weekend, I finally have my 3.x books back on shelves instead of in a dozen boxes. Yes, a dozen boxes... I don't like to use very large boxes for books, and I have a lot of them. Most of those boxes are for 3.x WotC titles; I only have two boxes of third-party stuff with me, and another 1.5 bookcases of such in storage along with all of my 1E and 2E stuff. Hopefully it will all be joining me this summer... finally. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 22:43:52
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I was able to talk with the guy who did the world map for the FRIA!
It seems he had a LOT more source material to work with, and they chose not use most of it (he mentions how the guy working on the globe used quite a bit more then he did).
As most of you already know, it really irritates me when people leave things out...
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Take a look at this map - he was demonstrating to me a possible placement for Returned Abeir that doesn't interfere with the existing world map (which I knew about already - it is way smaller then Maztica). Anyway, the Laerakond add is not what is so important about this early FRIA map - note all those extra land masses!
Looks like I got me a LOT of Islands to add... so does Rob.
 We likess it... yess, we likess it a lot, don't we, Preciousss?
*ahem* Yes, I have great plans for that slew of Polynesian islands east of Osse... I'm thinking that those minotaurs I had in mind earlier will go there very nicely...
Many, many thanks for this link, Mark... and for putting the "Isle" back in "Project Isle."
I'd better get my butt in gear on those sahuagin... work has had other plans for me lately, but I won't complain about the extra pay. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 05:37:58
I was able to talk with the guy who did the world map for the FRIA!
It seems he had a LOT more source material to work with, and they chose not use most of it (he mentions how the guy working on the globe used quite a bit more then he did).
Take a look at this map - he was demonstrating to me a possible placement for Returned Abeir that doesn't interfere with the existing world map (which I knew about already - it is way smaller then Maztica). Anyway, the Laerakond add is not what is so important about this early FRIA map - note all those extra land masses!
Looks like I got me a LOT of Islands to add... so does Rob. |
| Darkmeer |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 02:24:03
About halfway done with the full writeup here. Still having the computer difficulties from before, but once I can get somewhere and type this all out, I will (maybe within the next week or two).
BTW: Thank you all for letting me combine the crazy runner elves with the horse nomads, this seems to work really well
/d |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 05:53:17
There are two different races (from different 3e splats) that look like 'Killer Whales' (Orcas) that might be an unusual nemesis for the Sahuagin of this region.
The SW Island was named Kodingobold Island and written-up by Lord Karsus IIRC. It was the only Osse map I completed. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 04:51:16
Okay... now that my work week is over... just a couple of Osse sahuagin teasers for you while I get back to work on putting it all together...
Mutations: The four-armed variant is much more common here than among the sahuagin of the Inner Sea, found in over 12% (or 1 in 8) of surviving hatchlings. Curiously, the malenti variant is not found at all among the sahuagin of the Empire of the Tides... and there are no sea elf realms in this part of the world... coincidence? 
Competition: With no sea elves in the region, the primary territorial competition comes from marine trolls (scrags) and aquatic ogres (merrow).
Associations: Sharks, particularly great whites, are plentiful in the waters surrounding northern Osse, and the sahuagin of this region are just as shark-friendly as their Fallen Stars counterparts. Sahuagin weresharks are far more prevalent here, and (together with the four-armed mutants) form the bulk of the ruling class of the Empire of Tides.
Hopefully I'll have a completed draft ready for Wednesday...  |
| Jakk |
Posted - 17 Jun 2010 : 04:56:37
Althen: The SW island, IIRC... and I don't recall if anything else is there; I'll have to re-read the earlier posts here and check... or you could do that...
Mark: I like the "island in the bay" idea... and if magic was involved at all, my thought is that someone (not necessarily the apefolk casters) teleported the Gigantopithecus there... if that's what it is; I'll have to Google some stuff now, but not tonight; I work at 6AM PT tomorrow. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 17 Jun 2010 : 01:50:09
I going to look at some of the older Realms novels to see how
the greatest writers of the realms detailed out their stuff and
try to follow suit.
So, on that SE island they're getting set on, will there be any other cultures/peoples
there I will be working around? |
| althen artren |
Posted - 17 Jun 2010 : 00:39:05
Yeah, Im still around. I find myself writing a lot of detail and
wondering how much to include of stuff.
Oh, and the Dakon, the enclave I'm writing up is HEAVILY involved
in spelljamming, so you can have a any size group of them there.
I don't have a scanner, who do I mail maps to? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 21:00:44
I just compared it to mine - I don't have those islands - I will have to add them.
We both lack terrain features, so let us know what you want there - I was actually thinking about placing an island inside of that large northern bay.
Hmmmm... on my map the southern one would work better, but on Rob's the northern bay works better - I will have to fiddle with mine to get them closer. Either way, I think the Island should be inside a bay - maybe instead of 'imprisoning' their 'god', they dug-out around him? Maybe the bay was somehow magically created to strand him there and keep him from wreaking havoc?
Not sure about that one though... I hate "Big, magical EXCUSES" for stuff. |
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