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Originally posted by Jakk

Are the locals another Earth-culture ripoff or something new and different? I like door #2 myself, having done away with the Old Empires of Unther and Mulhorand in my Realms (they're part of Thay now).

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Lord Karsus (Dagnirion here at the 'Keep) wrote:

How I envision it:

In the waters right off of it's Western and North Western coasts, a large kingdom of Sahuagin, a la your "Empire of the Tides", as a rough-but-not-exact-and-interesting analogue for the Great Barrier Reef. Their presence also explains the relative lack of back-and-forth interaction between Osse and other continents.

Eastern and North Eastern Osse is a tropical climate, with a lot of rain, humidity, and wetness. This causes swamps and jungles.

Central Osse is more-or-less scrubland/grassland/prairie, with enough rainfall to not be considered a desert.

Southwest Osse is a real desert, created artificially, as opposed to naturally (reasons to be determined).

Southern Osse is swampy and humid, with a tropical climate.

Western Osse is somewhat mountainous, preventing westward exploration of the seas.

That island off of Southwest Osse ("Tasmania") is a tropical climate.

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Lord Karsus (Dagnirion here at the 'Keep) wrote:

Being as that I have begun rereading Lady of Poison, I gathered a bunch of minor relevant facts:
•'Tattooed Soldiers'
•Strange tattoos
•Thick soled leather shoes
•Breech clouts
•Gunggari Ulmarra
•Disdainful of clothing
•Dizheri: Long, stout wooden tube; colorful, warclub and walkingstick
•Osse is "beyond the girdle of the world"
•Person from Osse = Oslander
•Ancestor worship/veneration

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Colman wrote:

Why no colonies? Either it's not worth colonising, or something stops them. Huge wild/dead magic area? Overdone.

In the waters right off of its Western and North Western coasts, a large kingdom of Sahuagin, a la your "Empire of the Tides", as a rough-but-not-exact-and-interesting analogue for the Great Barrier Reef. Their presence also explains the relative lack of back-and-forth interaction between Osse and other continents.

A large kingdom of very advanced Sahuagin, strong enough to dissuade even the powerful empires except for the odd high-value mining outpost that's supplied by Spelljammer? Sahuagin that can sink ships with undersea rams propelled by some suitable mount.

Who are the bad guys? Advanced lizard men?

LK's description is too pleasant. Make it meaner.

We don't want to replicate Zakhara's interior - big desert, lots of ruins. I'm thinking environmental extremes - very hot and wet, very dry, very high and cold. Huge foetid tidal swamplands.

Need a pre-history - maybe one of the creator races hung around Osse longer than elsewhere? Maybe they're still there? Maybe they don't like colonisers?

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MarkusTay63 wrote:

No colonies because then you are assuming that no-one already lives there, or the culture is just so primitive that it can be ignored (and we already have/had that with Maztica, Anchorome, and possibly Katashaka).

When colonies were discussed in the K-T thread, I had mentioned the possibility that the east-coast have at least one 'civilized' kingdom (hopefully more), but that the west coast was not settled... which leads one to wonder why the easterners have not bothered with it (some sort of taboo, perhaps?). It could just be as simple as the place beiung very inhospitable (on that side), which is exactly how I was picturing it (and it didn't stop the Shou from attempting a colony/port there... which mysteriously disappeared).

For Kingdoms on the east side, I'm not sure what kind of cultures would be there, if we are using one based on aboriginies for the main part of the continent.

Non-human may be the way to go, so its not just like the rest of Faerûn (or Retrurned Abeir, for that matter). We have more then enough 'classic medieval' style kingdoms to do that again. Perhaps a powerful empire, made-up of a half-dozen seperate (and rebellious) Kingdoms?

Just trying to imagine something completely different for this region - at least different then anything already on Toril. Perhaps even a Romanesque Empire still in the Bronze-Age? That could work....

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Yakman wrote:

if you want to go primitive, i've been thinking of developing a region that is cursed so that "no stone may lay atop another for a day and a night" by a powerful elemental.

what i mean by this is that it is impossible to build anything by human hands that will last a day due to a powerful curse. essentially, civilization is made impossible by powerful magic. while we don't have to apply all of this to Osse, it makes it such that anything beyond hunter-gatherers is impossible.

the region/continent then would be made of monsters, extremely primitive tribes, etc..

just a thought.

Why not take Athas and put it into an FR context? Standard magic just plain won't work here... or it comes in two sorts: the spirit shamans and their far darker brethren: the DEFILERS.

Defilers never got their fair due. Not wanting to mince words, I'll come out and say it: DEFILERS ARE FRIGGING SWEET.

What does this do? Creates a different magical context for the continent, serves as a means to keep out the Shou and the Zakharans, and also provides for a wealth of role-playing possibilities.

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Gray Richardson wrote:

I like the World Serpent better for the Rainbow Serpent, over Jazirian. If the World Serpent has been sleeping for ages, he might reside in the Plane of Dreams. Osse could have powerful connections with the Plane of Dreams, which they might just call the Dreamtime... or Alcheringa.

Also, if they worship the World Serpent (or Rainbow Serpent) that could imply sarrukh influence in the ancient past. Perhaps the yuan-ti have strong roots in Osse. There maybe copious underground kingdoms of scalyfolk in the underdark below Osse. The humans of Osse might well have some yuan-ti blood running through their bloodlines.

Such a presence might imply that other scalyfolk gods are known in Osse. Sseth and Zehir might well have an interest in fostering worshipers here. Deities such as Laogzed and Shekinester may have some influence as well.

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MarkusTay63 wrote:

Scaley-influence would be cool, but I was already going that way with Jambu Dweepam (southern Kara-Tur/Jungle region).

However, I was borrowing heavilly from the Mahasarpa (OA)WE for that, and the humanskill anything 'scaley' on-sight, for the most part. In osee, it could be an excepted thing, and there could be people with scales and snake-features walking around in the open with no problems.

Now I'm starting to see a 'Dinotopia' spin on the continent, if we bring in Sarrukh influence.

Maybe throw in Raptorrans and Bullywug Kingdoms - give the whole place a 'Creator Race' feel. Ergo, it would be like taking RW Australia's known oddities (more 'primitive' flora and fauna) and translating them into Realms terms. The entire place could be a 'throw-back' to an earlier era.

The 'Underground Kingdoms' works very well for my concept of the entire center being a vast plateau. If the surface of the plateau is nothing more then a monster-infested, blasted wasteland, then it makes sense that region below ground would be utilized. Not a true Underdark at all, because those cultures living there would be at 'sea-level' - basically just a massive cave complex (as in, thousands of miles).

A continent with a mostly-subterranean population is rather different, and could prove very cool (everyone becomes a Dwarf! :D ). We could even bring Ed's 'long-lost' albino Elves into this area.

I was goping to say that halfligs would be one of the few groups living near the surface of the plateau (in burrows), and could act as go-betweens for the deeper races and whatever lives on the surface. That may give them too much of an Eberron-Halfling feel, though (socially - living in burrows is NOT Eberron).

And like I said, the plateau is just most of the central portion of Osse - the 'outer rim' would be 1-200 hundred miles wide, and be inhabited by more 'normal' groups.

I've been trying to think of a 'mystical' reason for the plateau, and I keep getting drawn to the Abber nomads of RL and Abeir. Perhaps the wasteland is what was left after a large portion of the world was swapped with Abeir, or was even one of those regions 'left blank' after Ao created Abeir (sending a good portion of the aboriginal peoples along with it to Abeir, some of whom eventually became the Abber Nomads of RL).

Here's a WIP of Osse. [dead link... MarkusTay! We need a new linky for this please! Assuming you still have the map, that is...]

This thread got me in the mood.

I had to reduce the size to upload, so the res isn't as good as it should be. Also, I've only got the outline done (which is one of the hardest parts - I have to go over everything five times!)

Now we need to just figure out what the hell to fil it with. I also need some Island names, but I suppose that will come with the lore.

And NO, this still isn't a project... its a fun 'exercise'.

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Rob: I don't know if I'm going colour-blind, but I don't see any "light orange" on your map. If you mean the light brown areas along the southwest coast, I like it.

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One more point for Rob: Any further thoughts on the outlying islands in that area, both near Osse and further away? They're too small to have a great deal of variety, so I'm thinking forest and/or mountains, with maybe one or two desert islands in the mix (because I'm seeing this area as ripe for a pirate campaign, and what's a pirate campaign without a desert island or two?)

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MarkusTay63 wrote:
Well, the super-volcano could have blown a gasket a mil... errr... 35,000 year ago or so.

Since that time, erosion how leveled-off much off the original enormous crater ridge (still leaving relatively large mountains). I like the idea of the lake, but combined with Suin Bahhar's suggestion - that there is still a large amount of vulcanism taking place below the continent, so that the lake becomes 'steamy' and even sulpherous (posionous) in places. That leaves that entire central area shrouded in mists, and would probably be a source of much local legend and taboos. I'm picturing a bayou-like marsh around it, with various 'things' living in huts on stilts, and also lots of scaley things living in the water (Giant Crocs, Huge Snakes, some pleisaurs, etc, etc...).

Although the main caldera from the original eruption is no longer 'active', geysers, both in the water and out, erupt in the region. Also, the entire mountain chain (and beneath the continent) are riddled with lava-tubes, some of which are still active from time-to-time. Occassionally, a pocket of magma reaches the surfaces, and lots of smaller volcanos are born - some oozing lava, some just smoking, and others having gone dormant long-ago like the super one.

That gives us all the seismic activity and still able to fill the ancient caldera with water (or whatever).

I was actually working on the southern island for about two hours today - I wanted one thing completed to give everyone a better idea of the scale involved. The map I posted here was greatly reduced in size so I could fit the whole thing on this page.

I should have the island done tomorrow and I'll post it.

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Lord Karsus wrote:
-I was thinking something like Crater Lake. It was formed when a supervolcano erupted and "blew itself up", leaving behind a big crater. The entire continent sits over large magma pockets and such, with other, smaller volcanoes active in the nearby mountain range. The land directly to the east of the lake can be something like "The Mudlands"- miles of bubbling and steaming mudpots (though not necessarily dangerously hot)- and fire swamps (a la Princess Bride), geysers, and things like that.

-The volcano exploding in the past can also explain why the people of Osse are fairly 'backwards', in terms of how advanced the rest of Kara-Tur, Maztica, Zakhara, and Faerûn are. Something in the recent past would have cleared the table, prompting civilization and whatnot to have to start over. Something in the recent past would also explain the lack of outside influence in Osse. Perhaps the Kara-Turans, or the Zakharans settled the continent long ago, and then catastrophe occurred, and because of that, ties were broken, allowing Osse to develop more or less on it's own. Being as that the information is new, in terms of world building, Oslander ties can be written into other Kara-Turan or Zakharan places, and nothing gets messed up.

-Originally, I placed the desert on the western coast. It was then moved to the eastern coast, reason being was that the prevailing weather patterns and climates would be moving cyclones/hurricanes and less dangerous tropical rainfalls down from Southeast Kara-Tur to the western side of Osse. Putting a desert there, an explanation would be needed to explain why tropical desert exists on that coast, and nearby, a desert. Moving it to the opposite coast moves it away from the southern moving storms, and places a barrier of mountains, to mostly prevent the storms from providing rainfall over the area.

-The seismic and magmal (I like that made-up word) activity beneath Osse is still ongoing. That is why Osse has no traditional Underdark- there is lava under there, poisonous gasses, and constantly collapsing caves and cave complexes because of earthquakes. The island, as a whole, is more or less stable, and isn't in danger of collapsing itself, or whatever else, but the same can't be said for it's "innards".

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MarkusTay63 wrote:
Does it have to be a volcano?

In 1038 DR, Toril experienced a slight rotational shift (The Great Glacier, pg. 7). I have therorized that this was the result of a rather large meteor strike somewhere on the planet, but considering their were no direct effects (other then global warming and general glacier-melting) it would make sense that it had to have happened on the other side of the planet.

What if that is a meteor crater of a strike that happened a mere 337 years ago?

Perhaps there was a powerful civilization (a'la Netheril, or Imaskar) controlling this land and keeping outsiders out, and these aboriginies are whats left of those once-great peoples.

Ergo, instead being primitive because their backwards, they are primitive because they were nuked into the stoneage.

This will also help differentiate Osse from Malatra, where there are already very primitive, stone-age level people dwelling.

Thoughts?

We could still have everything currently exactly as we imagined it - their would still be a lot of tectonic upheaval (perhaps the 'plate' was cracked by the strike?) and a thermal basin. All that would change is the back-story (and tie it into an aberrant piece of FR history).

In Kara-Tur's case, for whatever reason in the past* they were unable to colonize. Thanks to some sort of 'recent' upheaval that has changed. The upheaval itself depends on the timeframe we decide to go with. If we want it VERY recent (which makes the mostr sense), then the ToT should be blamed - whatever was protecting (coveting?) the continent is now gone (which could mean dead or just 'asleep'). If we push it back to the Meteor-strike I discussed in my last post, then the continent itself was probably blanketed with all sorts of basdness for the past three centuries - choking smoke, like-bloacking dust clouds, earthquakes, volcanos, lava rivers, sulpherous Geysers and thermal basins, oceanic seam-vents, ash-storms that bury entire cities, etc, etc....

Which has all quited-down in the past twenty years or so, allowing Kara-Turrans to finally have enogh nerve to try again.

Secondly, Shou Lung and T'u Lung hate each other. T'u doesn't have the central organizartion to mount an effective colonization. Shou certainly does... but T'u would do anything to prevent that. Being unable to use Osse themselves, I can see them using their navy to keep all Shou explorers from reaching the mainland.

Things changed, however... maybe Wa and/or Kozakura have discovered Osse, and are trying to settle it. This may have caused a change in the status quo, and T'u has finally decided to get its crap together and try colonization (putting aside its war with Shou and it's internal disorganization for once).

* The reason from the past will effect which way we go with the recent change. If we go with the ToT for the change, then we will have to say some sort of deity-level power was keeping others from reaching Osse (and keeping the Ossies from 'escaping'). If we use the Meteor strike/super-volcano, then we could say that the former Empire(s) of Osse were incredible powerful, and had some sort of Magic and/or techhnology that allowed them to hold-off 'barbarian invasions'. If we go that route, we have to establish some sort of cultural reason why they didn't bother to invade others (which could mean their power was derived from Osse itself). However, that option allows us to go full-tilt ruins all over the place, making it a much more interesting gaming environment then just a continent full of 'savages'.

I'm leaning heavilly toward the meteor/Volcano angle, and having Osse 'wiped clean' three centuries past. I like the idea the Ossies would have legends from their mighty past, and now they are a downtrodden people who have lost much of their hope (having to concentrate just on survival for all this time). Culturally, we can play-up the whole "the gods were angry at us" angle. I see a lot of potential in that.

A continent and people just climbing back up from a great cosmic thwacking.

Edit: I'm beginning to see that the ideas are not mutuallly exclusive - if the 'mighty power' that was holding sway over Osse since the beginning were the thing responsible for the Ossies incredible power (at their height), that would have also meant that they wouldn't have that power while away from Osse. By the same token, foreigners (and their beliefs) would have been a threat to this powwr, and thats why it would have blocked others from interferring with the 'paradise' it had created.

Which means the 'cosmic thwacking' could have been caused by outside gods (Faerûnian, Maztican, Kara-Turran, ect..), who felt it was about time the Ossies were free from their 'benevolent' (yet despotic) ruler. However, the power (a Primordial?) managed to stay alive and protect it's people from dying-out altogether, mitigating the worst of the cataclysm (we sort of need that, otherwise it should have been global). After three centuries of constantly exerting it's power to the fullest, it fell into a deep coma (those 'sleeps' that god-like beings are always falling into). This means it is now in a 'recovery phase', and healing, which means it can come back... which is exactly what the natives pray for.

The only way the natives can still communicate with their 'god' is through it's dreams.

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A large desert categorizes southwestern Osse. Called the Opaleis Desert by the Oslanders, this region of Osse is sparely inhabited, and has very few living creatures living in this climate, let along thriving in it. Temperatures during the day are regularly in excess of ninety degrees, and during the nights, temperatures flirt with the freezing temperature.

The great desert on Osse receives less than ten inches of rainfall per year. This is due to the presence of mountains to the desert’s east, preventing the flow of rainfall and moisture into the region. Because the land lies high above sea level, moisture from the east has to climb treacherous cliff faces that in some places can be in excess of 100 feet. The desert landscape is mostly made of sand and rock formations, including large, immobile formations, such as rock arches, and smaller, mobile sediment, made of pebbles, salt, and arid desert soil. A large lake does indeed exist in the desert, named Lake Ngambati, but the lake does nobody and good, being a salt lake with an extremely high salt content, to the point that it is said that creatures that enter it receive harsh burns and skin irritations.

Unlike many other deserts across Abeir-Toril, the Opaleis Desert supports very little vegetable matter. The few species that live there are sand, drought, and salt resistant, however. The desert’s western regions are more likely to receive rainfall, due to the proximity of the ocean, just below the great cliffs, and as such, most living creatures in the desert live in its western portions. Its eastern portions are nearly barren and lifeless, because of the harsh terrain, lack of precipitation, and high temperatures. Opuntias are the most common desert plant, as are desert holly and brittlebush. Other cacti and succulents are not found there.

Because of the harsh terrain, very few living creatures live in this region of Osse. Mulgara, armadillo and echidna are the only animals hardy enough to survive in this climate. Primarily, lizards, such as the thorny devil, and the frilled-neck lizard, inhabit the desert. The sandgrouse is the only bird that makes it’s home the desert.

Humans, for the most part, have avoided the Opaleis Desert. There is one particular tribe of Oslanders that lives in the desert, however. These people, the Siakdia Tribe, inhabit a ziggurat that is located in the desert’s roughest terrain, on the border of the Opaleis Desert and the Tolwaydi Mountains, along the Wenwolok Canyons.

The ziggurat was built by the Siakdia, and is one of the few permanent settlements on the island-nation. The stepped structure stands 75 feet tall, and on its roof is a large telescope-like device. In the center of the ziggurat is a chapel of sorts, housing a throne of foreign design, made of exotic metals. The Siakdia, unlike the other animistic tribes of Oslanders, worship a formal pantheon, made of specific entities. The creatures that they worship, they call ‘The Voidcallers’. Using the telescope housed at the top of their ziggurat, they speak directly to their deities, massive stars and constellations that hang in the night skies of Osse, that sometimes take the shapes of different animals. Elders empowered by the Voidcallers, the de facto rulers of the Siakdia Tribe, claim that, long ago, the Voidcallers came to Osse, but left, for whatever reason. Seeking to once again reconnect their association with the planet, they have chosen the Siakdia as their chosen representatives.

Southeastern Osse is categorized by swampy wetlands, known as the Waatikantri Swamp. Evidence suggests that the area was once more savannah grassland that periodically flooded. At some point in Osse’s history, the area flooded completely, and left behind a freshwater swamp forest. The areas where the swamp borders the ocean, the waters of the swamp are sometimes more saline. Temperatures during the day and night are similar to the temperatures exhibited in Osse’s grasslands, with the exception that they are slightly warmer, and far more humid, because of all of the rain and water.

The swamp receives a great deal of rainfall. The mountains to the swamp’s west are tall enough that they cause weather patterns that move southeast to west to stall over the region, inundating it with water and cloud cover, causing large amounts of rainfall, warmer temperatures, and higher humidity levels.

Because of its unique climate and geographic features, there are many plants in the Waatikantri Swamp that can be found nowhere else on Osse. Mangroves can be found in the areas where the swamp borders the ocean, since these areas are typically more saline than other areas. Pond cypress, being very rot-resistant, is the most common tree found in the swamp, and various types of epiphytes, such as bromeliads, or Maztican moss, grow on them. Carnivorous plants, such as pitcher plants and Coliaran flytraps, grow in the swamp, and it is said that some reach gigantic sizes, and prey on not only insects, but also birds and mammals.

There is also quite a bit of variance in the fauna that lives in the swamp. It is primarily inhabited by lizards and amphibians, such as crocodiles, eels, monitor lizards, frilled neck lizards, swamp tortoise, water snakes and tree snakes, and tree frogs, many of which are inherently poisonous. Fish, such as yabby, snapper, and shrimp, live in the waters of the area. Many mammals live in the swamp, however. Fluffy gliders, sugar gliders, opossums, flying squirrels, and, surprisingly, dingo, all live and thrive in the swamps.

The swamps are not inhabited by Humans, but are inhabited by far more insidious creatures. Various Bullywug tribes live all over the swamp. Each grouping, known as ‘iwi’, is made up primarily of Bullywug who share familial associations. Bullywug iwi are fiercely territorial, fighting with other Bullywug iwi as often as they do with outsiders who breach into the swamp.

The Bullywug do not have formal cities, but each iwi does indeed live in semipermanent settlements, primarily made of wood and mud. Mysterious ruins made of brick and stone exist within the swamp, and some of the more prestigious Bullywug iwi live in, amongst, or around these ruins. No one knows who built these ruins, what purposes they served, or how old they are. The only beings that might be able to shed light into these ruins through investigation, the Bullywug themselves do not care.

Unlike many Bullywug from Faerûn, the Bullywug of Osse do not worship Ramenos. Instead, the Bullywug of Osse worship an eel deity, known as Ophisternon.

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Notable Flora and Fauna
…Baji Foam Algae
…Wapa-Yandi Flower
…Gariguu Plant
…Jamba Plant
Central Osse
…Lake Biruu’burundi (Big Hole Lake)
…Mlimli Mudlands
…Baranna’nugan
…Mantha Plains
Southeast Osse
…The Majadeem (The Guardians)
…Zurbawunda (Desert Ziggurat)
…Opaleis Desert
…Lake Ngambati
…Wenwolok Canyons
…Ruins of Kella-Thus
Western Osse
…Tolyiwandi Mountains
…Guda N'gepya Volcano
…Baranna’wendanim
…Waatikantri Swamp
…Bulaarri Lakes
…Wugulu Plains

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Originally posted by Jakk
For Aurune: Rob, I'm with you on the inhabitants; I do like Patrakis' topology for them, and I have an idea (influenced, obviously, by "The Golden Compass" somewhat) involving a society of were-polar-bear Northmen-types, probably distant relations of the Northmen of Ruathym et al. in the Trackless Sea. The islands were speculated as the original Ruathym homeland in notes on one annotated Toril map I found somewhere... I'll try to find it again for us. I already have some work done on the society here, so I'll try to polish it up... I got the were-polar-bear idea originally from Anchorome, which we know from established lore to be inhabited by werewolves and possibly other werecreatures, and then I read "His Dark Materials" and saw "The Golden Compass" and it got me back into that idea.

Anyway... thoughts on Aurune? I see the realm as a loose confederation of kingdoms who typically raid the coasts of Anchorome and the surrounding islands, but are not above fighting among themselves on a small scale (feuds and such things are common), and they have begun settling the northern reaches of Anchorome, particularly the northeast peninsula. Despite the infighting (which is always a result of their very Norse honour-codes), they consider themselves a unified people, and they call their nation Tuhaval. In times of overt alliance against a common enemy (such as the werewolves of Anchorome) the kings of Tuhaval appoint a High King (this is rather Celtic, I know, but it keeps the Northmen from being too Norse) to lead them as a people.

Other wildlife on the islands themselves include winter wolves (hunted and killed on sight) and other Arctic creatures.

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Originally posted by Jakk

The only notable absence I can comment on is the whisper gnomes; I would put them where the Aearee are, and move the Aearee to the shores of the western bay. Also, Bullywugs like it wet, so (assuming that the NE forest is temperate rainforest as previously discussed) I'd like to see some swampland south of there, between the shoreline to the east and the river to the south. Other thoughts on this recommendation?

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The mountains should definitely be just a little bigger, though... apart from the northwestern and outermost northeastern ranges, anyway. I think that the largest ranges should be the long ones to the southwest; they should be the widest, and have the tallest peaks.

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Also, I would have the dream dwarves spread out through all of those southwestern mountains. They're basically sharing a habitat with the goliaths, so having them more spread out (and therefore more sparsely populated through those regions) would work better, I think. I like the idea of putting the garguns in the northwestern range; and the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of the batrachi being there at all.

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In place of the batrachi in the northwest forest, I would put either more bullywugs or another jungle/rainforest race; I would probably lean toward the latter, for variety; anyone have any ideas?

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