| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 11 May 2010 : 11:29:14
Is Drow Society ever detailed further than Drow of the Underdark, MenzoBerranzan Box set...
Males are physically weaker, but weapons masters are always male it seems? (Although the exceptionally large ones seem to also always be male Uthgental, etc.) Do male weapons master rule over female soldiers? It sounds like they must. Like Andzrel Baenre seemed to be in charge of an army...that must have included female soldiers. But Ryld Argith says even though he's a Master of Melee-Magthere he'd never be able to tell ANY female what to do?
What does being a higher ranked house accomplish if one is already on the ruling council? Does House Baenre have power by being first over other houses aside from the power they can take? What about lower houses...what does it matter if you're house 52 or 32? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 03:25:01
Zireal, I believe it was stated somewhere once (can't for the life of me remember where) that each city has its own methods of time keeping. Some seem to use temple gongs to tell the ime for various services, others use methods like Narbondel or water-clocks, etc. I think some even use a sort of magical sun-dial (attuned to the passing of the sun above the surface)! |
| Sill Alias |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 10:10:52
And I believe it is controlled resurrection. Moreover, no drow helps the defeated one. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 09:55:31
Assassination is the ultimate no-confidence vote. Assuming some means of resurrection isn't possible ... a possibility which could offer Lolth's priestesses much greater political power and influence. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 09:23:16
I was wondering, how do the drow (and other underground races) keep the time? The only thing ever referenced in lore was Narbondel in Menzo...
If I don't get a definite answer I'll head off to ask Ed and Elaine, but I wouldn't like to cause too much clutter in their scrolls.
Zi |
| Hooch9 |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 08:36:01
Drow society is indeed one of extremes. While it seems to be portrayed as this balls to the wall cutthroat group of people, no one society can operate in an extreme 100%. Even if they truly are this pure evil group with no ethics, they apparently see the value of an organized society. While treachery is in the blood of some drow, no civilization survives an indefinite civil war.
It almost sounds like a system of checks and balances like in America. The difference of course is instead of voting, insurrection seems to be the way of politics for the drow.
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| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 03:02:40
Aww, you're just jealous cause they are so much better-looking than all of those races, LOL!! (Liches not being a race, but still very icky-looking; not to mention they stick like rotten meat...) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 02:53:18
lol, Homeland is a lot of sustained exposure to Drizzt in full-emo mode, more than I think I can endure re-reading - ever. I'll look at the other novels, though I'll admit I don't like the drow fanfic enough to hack through the War of the Spider Queen double trilogy. Daughter of the Drow looks hopeful, since Elaine never disappoints.
I think I'll generally stick with tanar'ri, shades, liches, illithids, and (my favourite) the gith races - my kind of people, more pleasing to me than the icky drow. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 02:29:29
Bingo! Family is a "relative" term for them. Also, as an interesting side-note: they have over a dozen words dealing with killing and/or death, but only one for love. The word normally used to refer to "love" is actually their word for lust or pleasure. (ssinssrig= lust/pleasure; chev= love) If you're interested in their view on family and friendships, Homeland, Dissolution, and Daughter of the Drow are the three best sources of lore. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 02:23:34
I was mistaken about drow natural lifespan: 1E max is 1399 years, 2E max is 525 years, shorter than all other elven subraces in both editions - oops. 
I suppose I'd need to read more drow fiction to get a better grasp of their culture. Your explanations make drow seem more callous and indifferent toward the fate of their kin than even orcs, gnolls, and goblinoids. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 02:02:48
Arik, regarding drow society in general- don't forget that most drow are pragmatic more than anything, and do not consider such altruistic emotions like love and loyalty or even affection or friendship when it comes to familial or peer relationships. A good case in point- Ryld and Phaeraun in Dissolution were "good friends", yet Phaeraun abandoned Ryld after the two were captured and later managed to escape, leaving him behind to face their captors while he got clean away, all of this while a major up-rising among the slaves was going on. He did later come back for him- and least, that was his pretext, though he returned for his gear as much as for Ryld- and the friendship between the two was never the same. Because they both knew from the beginning that it would last only until it was convenient for one of them to turn on or abandon the other, and Ryld would have done the same thing if given half a chance. Incidentally, he was a common-born, while Phaeraun was noble, and the only reason they were friends to begin with was because both were Masters in the Academy (Phaeraun was in Scorcere, Ryld was in Melee;Magthere).
When it comes to affection, Fellfire is absolutely right. They show it on occasion, mostly to favored "playmates" or siblings (like Quarlynd and his sister Hallistra), but it is almost always with the knowledge that that same object of affection might need to be discarded at any time, so they generally DON'T get too attached even to lovers or family members. Even Vierna's affection for Drizzt only lasted until her mother Malice (and by extension, Lolth) wanted him dead.
Also, as a note on drow aging- they do not as a rule live longer than other elves- in fact, most don't live much beyond their fifth century, and that's if they're lucky. Baenre was an exception, being over 2000, but generally (it has been stated in canon) they live about as long as Moon elves. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 23:51:58
They don't need "nice" reasons to be civil in the middle to lower classes either. It would hurt their profits if they acted exactly as the priestesses do. It would also seem to foster the more ambivalent pragmatic views that the few middle/low class drow in the books seem to exhibit (the few times we see them anyway).
Actually, I don't seem to recall much about middle to lower class drow social interactions in any of the sourcebooks. It does seem like they would use a very unregulated form of capitalism economically though, which would make sense given the nature of the theocracy involved. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 22:52:47
Sounds familiar ... and Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son ... of course Lolth wouldn't offer a ram conveniently caught in the nearby thicket to serve in the stead of the sacrifice; she would probably be angered if the sacrifice was botched through the incompetence of love.
I agree, drow can't all be heartless bastards if the race is to survive - treachery and murder aimed at close kin is probably only a privilege practiced by aggressively ambitious nobility, clergy, leaders, etc. The vast majority of drow are probably quite affectionate, even steadfastly loyal, to their close friends and family (at least in private, where such weakness cannot be as readily exploited by enemies). |
| Therise |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 22:31:21
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
(Interesting rants, LF)
But back to drow society ...
Aside from dragons, drow have perhaps the longest lifespan of any race in D&D, exceeding the lifespans of even other elven flavours. Does drow society offer any special recognition or treatment for their elders?
Envy, maybe? Surviving until old age in drow society likely means you have power or status.
quote:
Or are drow elders expected to fare for themselves (and likely get themselves killed on a bad day) as would any other drow adult?
This is true, I think.
quote:
Other elven races are noted for treating their elders with immense respect as these have accumulated vast wisdom and provide important continuity with elven things from centuries past.
Definitely, although the good-aligned elves are way more likely to care for the weak and infirm.
quote:
I assume that not every elf nor every drow is going to master advanced magic and fighting skills, nor develop levels in any "class" career - the vast majority are simply "0-level" normals who have nothing exceptional to offer their society beyond their charming good looks, mundane job skills, bonds of friendship (and enmity), and incredibly long lifetimes of experience.
Master craftsmen, builders, chefs, artists... those would all get respect of a sort, in the form of envy - or having highly desirable products or skills to be bought. I don't think caring and compassion play into it at all for the drow.
One of the most defining moments I've read, and I can't remember if it was a Drizzt or a Liriel novel, was a point at which Lolth found out about a female's actual love and caring for a sibling (or if it wasn't Lolth, then it was an older priestess who found out).
Anyway, Lolth or the older priestess required the sacrifice of young sibling by the elder female sibling's hand (i.e. kill your brother to show you love Lolth more than a family member), just to teach an object lesson in emotion. It wasn't considered out of the norm by the other female priestesses, either.
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| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 22:26:55
I seem to recall something about elderly drow being expected to fend for themselves at the upper levels of society. At that point, they probably have created a saftey net for themselves that would cause untold amounts of personal ruin for the drow who have to support them. Something about old age and treachery winning out over youth and vigor... until someone decides it's worth the risk to try assassinating them.
For the lower classes, I think that as long as the elder had some value to his or her offspring, they would not get chucked out. Maybe there are details about their craft that the elder has hinted at but not disclosed to their offspring or a really lucrative trade contact that is only willing to deal with the elder and no one else.
In any case, while the whole of drow society might be characterized as self "serving opportunistic bastards," I think that the more rampant familial murder-for-status occurs mostly among the upper classes. It just isn't profitable for the lower classes to do the same on a large scale. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 21:57:29
(Interesting rants, LF)
But back to drow society ...
Aside from dragons, drow have perhaps the longest lifespan of any race in D&D, exceeding the lifespans of even other elven flavours. Does drow society offer any special recognition or treatment for their elders? Or are drow elders expected to fare for themselves (and likely get themselves killed on a bad day) as would any other drow adult? Other elven races are noted for treating their elders with immense respect as these have accumulated vast wisdom and provide important continuity with elven things from centuries past.
I assume that not every elf nor every drow is going to master advanced magic and fighting skills, nor develop levels in any "class" career - the vast majority are simply "0-level" normals who have nothing exceptional to offer their society beyond their charming good looks, mundane job skills, bonds of friendship (and enmity), and incredibly long lifetimes of experience. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 21:33:06
I am quite sure we can guess what kind of mushrooms you had.   |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 17:05:06
I was once served illithid brain, sauteed in witchweed and mushrooms...
Too die for!
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Maybe he ran into some mind-flayers while he was down in Menzo ...
Or maybe those "drow secretions" were some sort of hallucinogenic neurotoxin, that makes sense to me.
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| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 17:01:56
When in Menzoberranzan!
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Ho ho! I catch your meaning, but nae!
Drow females secrete a particular humour which causes their ebon skin to be far softer than that of males. Having bedded many drow of both genders (usually in polymorphed form), and also having dissected nearly as many, I can assure you that the females are indeed softer!
The life of toil that the men of Menzoberranzan endure also harden their skins, as well!
Now, as to the my familiarity with the drowish lash, I have certainly been flogged by many drow, and flogged quite a few myself, but this was all in love-play.
This is really disturbing. In about five different ways.
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 16:36:51
Maybe he ran into some mind-flayers while he was down in Menzo ...
Or maybe those "drow secretions" were some sort of hallucinogenic neurotoxin, that makes sense to me. |
| Therise |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 16:23:47
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Ho ho! I catch your meaning, but nae!
Drow females secrete a particular humour which causes their ebon skin to be far softer than that of males. Having bedded many drow of both genders (usually in polymorphed form), and also having dissected nearly as many, I can assure you that the females are indeed softer!
The life of toil that the men of Menzoberranzan endure also harden their skins, as well!
Now, as to the my familiarity with the drowish lash, I have certainly been flogged by many drow, and flogged quite a few myself, but this was all in love-play.
This is really disturbing. In about five different ways.
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 16:11:05
Erdrick ... have ye been spiking your potions a little with strong dwarven drink? |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 15:57:07
Ho ho! I catch your meaning, but nae!
Drow females secrete a particular humour which causes their ebon skin to be far softer than that of males. Having bedded many drow of both genders (usually in polymorphed form), and also having dissected nearly as many, I can assure you that the females are indeed softer!
The life of toil that the men of Menzoberranzan endure also harden their skins, as well!
Now, as to the my familiarity with the drowish lash, I have certainly been flogged by many drow, and flogged quite a few myself, but this was all in love-play. |
| Sill Alias |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 08:52:55
He is Vhaeraunite, no doubt. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 08:50:55
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Indeed, from my time spent in the Great Utter Dark, I can say with utmost surety that nae a male wields power such that the softer gender employs!
"Softer" gender? Female Drow elves? Have you the brain worms?!
Soft was not the first descriptor that came to mind.
Seconded. I think this male has been whipped one too many times. Or the illithids scrambled his mind. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 07:21:17
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Indeed, from my time spent in the Great Utter Dark, I can say with utmost surety that nae a male wields power such that the softer gender employs!
"Softer" gender? Female Drow elves? Have you the brain worms?!
Soft was not the first descriptor that came to mind. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 18:03:03
Indeed, from my time spent in the Great Utter Dark, I can say with utmost surety that nae a male wields power such that the softer gender employs!
Ev'en the Weapon Masters of the great drow houses bow and supplicate before even the meanest female. Much in the same way a noble King may be trained by a common swordsman, such is the relationship between male sword-masters and female drow! Nae'er would a common soldier/sword instructor command King Azoun V, even during the young King's harshest traing!
The drow-all are bitter, evil creatures, and Menzoberanzan is perhaps the cruelest of all drow cities. The matriarchy of Menzoberranzan is absolute; aye, drow-men are given blades only so that they may die wielding them, and in great number!! |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 17:38:25
LOL!! LF, I like that even better!! Arik, I likethat shirt. I think i may have it as one of the effects the next time one of my players uses his wand of wonder.... |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 06:36:03
I did receive one of these as a gift. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 06:12:47
If not, maybe they should! "I Survived Menzoberranzan and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!" XD |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 21:28:48
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Damn you, Drizzt. You made this city the most favorite tourist place...
I'm with you on that one, Sill!! Hmm, do you think they sell "I survived Menzoberranzan" T-shirts? |
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