| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Brix |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 20:25:47
Hello fellow Realmsfans. I hope this is good news for you:
http://3point75.blogspot.com/
I also really hope that the banners of candlekeep flutter strongly in the wind again soon. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Varl |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 21:03:38
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Can you imagine WotC/Hasbro doing that? Putting the full list of all their complaints right at the very top of their site so it was the first thing you saw?
Not a chance. I decided long ago that the d20 game wasn't for me, but that doesn't prevent me from observing a smart business model when I see one, and as far as I'm concerned, that's Paizo. What's funny is, I've subscribed to Pathfinder, despite my version preferences, because what they create isn't that hard to use with OOP editions. The fact that they interact with their customers the way they do actually eases a lot of my biases when it comes to the game.  |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 19:05:26
A lot of the reason for the customer tags behind the names has to do with rewarding the people that supported them during the really scary time between them being an official arm of 3.5 and striking out on their own with Pathfinder. I wasn't so much to say "we listen to them more" as to say thanks in some concrete way for for being the people that shored up their sales so that they knew they had the base to do what they wanted to do.
Although, you know, I would have liked to had a title for being a charter GM for the Pathfinder Society at Gen Con last year, but hey, watta ya gonna do?  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 18:21:55
I actually made an off-hand comment over at the Paizo boards once, about how next to poster's names is a list of what Paizo products they subscribe to, and my comment was along the lines of "no-one will ever listen to me, because I don't have any of those 'paying customer' thingies next to my name" (this, concerning the Beta test of the Pathfinder rules, concerning rules suggestions).
I got answered by Erik himself, and at least two other employees chimed-in, saying they listen to ALL suggestions, regardless of the amount of Paizo products you have purchased.
I was taken-aback that not only did they respond to the comment, but did so immediately (within hours). I still find the fact that posters have all that info next to their names suspect (I find EVERYTHING suspect), but I have to say they are quick to address assumed problems and nip any rumors in the bud.
I had also suggested they move their 'Complaints Dept' from the very top of the public forums list - the first thing folks going there saw was the list of complaints (damaged products received, or not received at all, or problems with the site, ect...)
Their answer? They had nothing to hide, and wanted people to be aware of any issues up-front, and also how quickly they addressed said issues and rectified them.
Can you imagine WotC/Hasbro doing that? Putting the full list of all their complaints right at the very top of their site so it was the first thing you saw? 
I am amazed at the incredible business savy Erik Mona and his Paizo people show. |
| Varl |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 18:04:19
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
And, speaking from my own personal experience, the only true way to reverse that belief is to a) make MAJOR fundamental changes; b) publish detailed timelines and project plans with regular updates on progress and c) removal of key individuals seen (correctly or not) as the antagonists behind lies and/or problems.
Another key method for winning people back would be to be more public. Look at Lisa Stevens at Paizo. She, and many of the Paizo development team, routinely post on their own message boards concerning comments, issues, and problems fans have with the company and its products. Wizards? Their leads and development team hands it off to moderators that probably are vastly underpaid, we know are severely under appreciated, and come across as condescending or cold more often than not. The disconnect with the fans is one of the leading causes of fan antagonism.
Think of how great it is to occasionally get a message from Ed via THO. Now imagine if Ed only contacted and commented to the fans of Candlekeep through its moderators in a standoffish, distant way of communicating to the fans. Developers are people; they're also very busy, but the day when a developer cannot take 5 minutes out of his or her day to chat with the people purchasing your material is the day they've lost their way. Ask Lisa Stevens. She gets it.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Apr 2009 : 18:48:21
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Yeah I hate Microsoft for the exagerated security
Who said anything about Microsoft?
In reference to my xbox 360 issue used as an example along the lines of what Wizards could do (which would be very beefy security but can in certain situations hinder the paying customer).
Ah, I see. My bad.  |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 28 Apr 2009 : 18:31:44
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Yeah I hate Microsoft for the exagerated security
Who said anything about Microsoft?
In reference to my xbox 360 issue used as an example along the lines of what Wizards could do (which would be very beefy security but can in certain situations hinder the paying customer). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Apr 2009 : 00:21:54
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Yeah I hate Microsoft for the exagerated security
Who said anything about Microsoft? Corel is an independent company. And they're not the only ones who practice anti-piracy tactics that protect them and screw the customer. Songs purchased from iTunes used to be limited to being played on authorized computers. Rhapsody's tunes are generally in a format other music players can't handle. Sony caught a lot of flak a couple years back for its rootkits -- in trying to protect their music, they created security holes and broke computers (I had to fix one that had the CD player rendered inoperable by the Sony rootkit). I've seen websites where the option of right-clicking on anything was disabled so that nothing from the site could be copied. And I once bought a CD that couldn't be played on a computer without some proprietary software being installed.
And we're speculating that Wizards might try some method that charges us for content that we can not store locally... Microsoft might be an Evil Empire, but they're not involved in this potential brouhaha. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 23:29:17
Yeah I hate Microsoft for the exagerated security |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 20:58:55
I'm still waiting for my LGS to get a 3D printer so I can print-out custom miniatures. 
They can put the book-making machine next to that.
Actually... thats not such a bad idea... imagine all the savings on inventory... |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 18:16:41
Not that this helps the current problem with the purchasable PDF being taken down, but someone in the UK has comercialized a book printer anyone can use. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 17:27:13
VERY good point.
I was switching computers once, and I had the problem of losing a serial number for a very expensive program, and even though I had all the original books and discs (and box!), the company in question (Corel) said they could do nothing for me, and I'd have to pay for another copy in full. I even asked if there was some way I could retrieve the serial number from the still-functional copy on the old machine, but they claimed there was no way to do that.
I was so disgusted, I just never bothered to use the product again. 
If I had pirated the software, I would have just downloaded a newer version pirated copy - it wouldn't have stopped me at all. The only thing their 'security' hampers are paying customers. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 16:16:53
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
To pirate proff, I guess it would be something similar to what they do with the Xbox 360 (for instance, I downloaded some songs for Rockband that I can play on my 360 or my bros' 360 with my hard drive, but since I downloaded them WHILE on my bros' 360, I cannot play them while I am offline on mine, only while online on mine)...sad but true
See, that's going too far, as far as I'm concerned.
I myself have gone thru a lot of computers... Just a few weeks ago, I was setting up a new(er) machine for myself, and it annoyed me, so I decided to give it to my dad (whose computer is pathetic). While I was doing that, though, I upgraded to a larger hard drive for all my data (I didn't need more room as much as I needed to make a couple partitions larger). Then my computer died the other day, and I had to order a replacement, which should arrive on Wednesday.
Now, some companies are rather DRM-happy, and I'd have lost data if I had anything from those companies. But it's because of changing computers and random mishaps (I also had a hard drive crap out on me, once, and I've seen it happen to others) that I don't deal with those companies.
Whatever Wizards decides to adopt for their new digital offerings, they need to allow for the fact that no PC or hard drive is going to last forever. I won't pay for content I can't store locally and move to another PC if I have to. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 14:46:22
To pirate proff, I guess it would be something similar to what they do with the Xbox 360 (for instance, I downloaded some songs for Rockband that I can play on my 360 or my bros' 360 with my hard drive, but since I downloaded them WHILE on my bros' 360, I cannot play them while I am offline on mine, only while online on mine)...sad but true |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 07:16:09
I am glad somebody else said it! 
BRIMSTONE |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 06:20:23
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
One can "turn the other cheek" only so often.
In a very short time, you run out of cheeks. 
Four cheeks, four editions. Coincidence? I think not.
-- George Krashos
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 03:13:11
I don't see this as a case of us being "lied to," I just see it as a case of vague wording--and how easy it is for one to interpret such statements in the most favorable way possible.
quote:
Since he was referring to a specific passage in my initial email, I'm sure that its about previously unreleased pre-spellplague material.
Brix, what makes you so certain? I think if he didn't explicitly state that WotC was developing new pre-Spellplague Realmslore, it's probably best not to assume that's what he meant.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Apr 2009 : 19:35:30
One can "turn the other cheek" only so often.
In a very short time, you run out of cheeks.
Anyhow, "Seeing is believing" and all of that. And even if everything they promise comes to pass, in the end... how many of us really care anymore? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Apr 2009 : 17:35:20
Not only that, but some people are so angry at Wizards that anything Wizards does is seen in the worst possible light.  |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 26 Apr 2009 : 16:17:42
This entire conversation reminds me of why I hated my previous job. It's the Boy who cried Wolf syndrome. Once it's been established that a company has lied to the public (development of 4th edition), everyone begins doubting any information they release. Add to that unforeseen problems (their release of DDi tools, the alienation of long-time fans, etc.) and soon every decision the company makes or talks about is placed in doubt and heavily scrutinized. No longer will anyone have simple faith in what they say or do, for every action they take must now try to 'win over' the people that have lost faith. This is especially difficult when those same people find something new to believe in (Pathfinder).
The overall problem is that most of the fans that do not like what they have done in the past few years will take every word and believe they are being lied to, even if they are not. And, speaking from my own personal experience, the only true way to reverse that belief is to a) make MAJOR fundamental changes; b) publish detailed timelines and project plans with regular updates on progress and c) removal of key individuals seen (correctly or not) as the antagonists behind lies and/or problems. |
| Tyr |
Posted - 26 Apr 2009 : 12:35:13
no i'm not, I saw him post it :p
Besides, with most things Wizards say, you've gotta wait for it to actually happen before you take their word for it. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 26 Apr 2009 : 11:27:54
But Tyr is dead ... |
| Brix |
Posted - 26 Apr 2009 : 09:53:05
quote:
Now, of course, Wizards might have changed their mind about creating new lore for the older dates, but that, to me, invalidates some of their reasons for advancing 100 years into the future.
Even wizards change their minds sometimes
Since he was referring to a specific passage in my initial email, I'm sure that its about previously unreleased pre-spellplague material.
This is content that WotC already paid for. Content that IS already available.
We did not talk about old products that were formerly available as pdfs or print products at that point in our conversation.
Tyr is my witness
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 25 Apr 2009 : 20:51:37
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth, my read on the original comment was that they would be releasing older edition lore that already exists in another format, not that they would be creating new lore set in the pre-4E timeframe. Honestly, that interpretation didn't even occur to me until I read this thread, and upon rereading the comments, it still seems to me like they are only talking about re-releasing already existing lore.
Indeed, that's how it sounded like to me and this was how it was discussed at Gencon, as you know. :) Now, of course, Wizards might have changed their mind about creating new lore for the older dates, but that, to me, invalidates some of their reasons for advancing 100 years into the future. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 25 Apr 2009 : 20:23:58
For what its worth, my read on the original comment was that they would be releasing older edition lore that already exists in another format, not that they would be creating new lore set in the pre-4E timeframe. Honestly, that interpretation didn't even occur to me until I read this thread, and upon rereading the comments, it still seems to me like they are only talking about re-releasing already existing lore. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Apr 2009 : 04:45:37
I said this in an earlier thread (probably the DDi one) -
The ONLY way to make things 'pirate proof' is for Adobe and all other 3rd-party pdf proggies to get together with Microsoft (and possibly Apple and Netscape as well) and create a propriety system from scratch that will allow files to be copied to a registered computer, and perhaps a second computer registered to the same owner, and then have the operating system itself block any other copying of said file, including uploades to the internet. Aside from the rather obvious logistics problems with getting everyone to play nice (and not have Billy Gates try to control everything), that still isn't a perfect solution because you could still transfer files using other protocols and lesser-knwn OS's (like Linus).
That means it might actually be easier to force all future Mobo manufactures to include a chip on the boards, sort of like how TV's have to include the V-Chip, and have the blocking done somehow in hardware (also a difficult and costly solution). However, older machines will still be able to bypass the securty features, so that isn't much of a solution either... at least not an immediate one.
Thats why I have gotten my circa 1979 VCR repaired twice already - I can copy whatever I want.
Of course, I do that with DVDs these days, but I still own that VCR...
No security solution will ever be foolproof, because five minutes later some unscrupulous genius will figure out how to get around it. Thats just the way it is.
The trick is to make illegal downoads pointless. I could find any pdf I want on the Internet, but I was buying all the older edition stuff I didn't have from Paizo (like all of the OA modules).
I wasn't paying for them because I'm such an honest guy - I was doing it because for just $4 a piece it was stupid not to pay for them. Why break Federal Laws for just $4?
See... thats the trick... produce tons and tons of lore and then sell it to us a couple of pages at a time for just $1 - anyone would be willing to pay for that.
Except someone who was never going to bother buying it in the first place... in which case you never lost a thing.
WotC needs to learn that the Internet is about QUANTITY. Hell... they already got half the formula down, now that they threw quality out the window. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Apr 2009 : 00:25:45
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
They have a way in the online Dragon and Dungeon <snip>
They do? |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 23:33:49
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
They have a way in the online Dragon and Dungeon -- we might keep an eye on that. Last year Chris Perkins answered a question of mine saying they hoped to get publishing Ed's basement Realmslore backlog,
Bunch of 20 year old NDA's sitting around gathering dust. Give the masses what they want! REALMSLORE BY ED! 
BRIMSTONE |
| Faraer |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 22:54:36
They have a way in the online Dragon and Dungeon -- we might keep an eye on that. Last year Chris Perkins answered a question of mine saying they hoped to get publishing Ed's basement Realmslore backlog, |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 21:58:12
I would have thought that WotC would have been able to make more money from lawsuits if they had kept the encoded pixel a secret and kept the PDFs available for purchase, in addition to selling all the older edition (1e and 2e) books that they never bothered to watermark because (I always assumed) they really didn't care about them. And to keep it a secret that they had the encoded pixels they could have just offered to prosecute the offenders for less money if they signed a confidentiality agreement. Now, who knows how much money they will spend on developing this new digital format with some sort of DRM with no incoming income from digital copies of books at all? |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 20:08:49
I see it, I believe it, till then I dont have much faith in mere posts of this or that. |
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