| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 05:42:18
"The continent of Faerun in 1479 DR is not the cosmopolitan grid of trade routes it was of old. Disasters, rampaging monsters, and the rise of evil empires have change the landscape. Many roads of have fallen into disrepair, several ports are high and dry, and numerous once-vital cities are now empty shells or drowned ruins.
But to the bold, adventuring into the darkness between points of light remain an exciting and reward enterprise. Traveling cross-country is dangerous and often difficult-the follow means of transportation are safer and easier."
I thought they said the Realms weren't a points of light setting? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 01:46:00
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
If a guy was going to read every substantial thing he could about the Skyfire Emirates/Calimshan--is that the list? Anything big that I'm missing, either in gaming supplement or fiction terms? Other than Stephen Schend's topic here I mean. 
Well, there's odd references and sections in other sources, like Grand History of the Realms and Lost Empires of Faerūn for example.
quote:
(On the one hand I kind of feel like I should start a new scroll for this, but on the other, there are already so many! It's just that none of them seem to collect it all in one place).
That what the scribes are for! 
|
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 20:21:03
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Wait, what?
Calimshan is gone? That stinks, I liked it as a setting.
It's not gone, but it's pretty drastically changed.
I'd say it's still "mostly desert" though, maybe even more so than in the past.
Funny to see this come up. I've just spent the last hour or two winding my way through all the stuff that came up when I searched on "calim" here at the Keep. It's hilarious how many times Sage has pointed people to the free download of the Calimport supplement.
And, speaking of downloads, between the freebies and Paizo, I now have these .pdfs resting on my hard drive:
Empires of the Sands
Empires of the Shining Sea
Calimport
Was there ever a 3.0/3.5 supplement that covered the area?
Also, courtesy of my searching, I pieced together this list of novels (and one story) that are set at least partly in Calimshan:
Halfling's Gem, The--R.A. Salvatore
Night Parade, The--Scott Ciencin
Silent Blade, The--R.A. Salvatore
Sands of the Soul--Voronica Whitney Robinson
Servant of the Shard--R.A. Salvatore
Star of Cursrah--Clayton Emery
Bloodwalk by James P. Davis, book 2 of the Wizards series
Paths of Darkness Quartet by Salvatore
Realms of Infamy: "The Third Level" by Salvatore
If a guy was going to read every substantial thing he could about the Skyfire Emirates/Calimshan--is that the list? Anything big that I'm missing, either in gaming supplement or fiction terms? Other than Stephen Schend's topic here I mean.
(On the one hand I kind of feel like I should start a new scroll for this, but on the other, there are already so many! It's just that none of them seem to collect it all in one place).
Cheers,
Christopher |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 18:37:32
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Wait, what?
Calimshan is gone? That stinks, I liked it as a setting.
It's not gone, but it's pretty drastically changed. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 18:35:20
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Wait, what?
Calimshan is gone? That stinks, I liked it as a setting. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 15:34:34
I think it gets some pages in the forthcoming Shadowrealm: The Twilight War Book III . |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 15:27:10
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Is the Cormyr-Sembia war covered in a novel series, because there's not much said about it in the new FRCG...
Nope, not yet at least.
|
| Jakk |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 02:24:05
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I plan on doing my own Frankenstein version, combining parts of the 4e setting and new continental outline with older material, NPCs, and locales, and then set the whole thing in 1390 DR - post-Spellplague, but soon enough after for me to Cherry-pick from both.
And only the folks I say died actually die IMG. 
That's almost what I'm doing... but why on Toril (leave Abeir out of this, please!) would you use the new map, given the time and energy you have invested in your own 3E-era map? Mind you, you posted this a month ago; have you since changed your mind? I know you've recently talked about going forth with plans to map Anchorome (which apparently no longer exists in "canon" 4E), so what gives? 
Anyway, I'm using the old physical geography, no RSE, but keeping the renewal of Netheril / death of Anauroch and the refounding of Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr (yes, I'm using the proper name for the realm). War between Cormyr and Sembia will happen, probably along much the same lines as presented (Shadovar conquer Sembia and use it as a launching pad for invasion of the surrounding territory). On which note: Is the Cormyr-Sembia war covered in a novel series, because there's not much said about it in the new FRCG (from what little I've been able to read; I refuse to buy it, and it still burns my skin to touch it), but it sounds like the *real* reason to blow everything up was to eliminate all semblance of a backstory to the campaign. As others have pointed out, there were plenty of new places to explore... *how* many continents on the sketch map in the 3E FRCS were marked "Unknown Lands"? The only reason to blow it all up was to make the Realms "not Ed's" any more. Anyway, I'm done with the rant; I was trying not to rant, but it's difficult where the 4E Realms are concerned.
To those who like the 4E Realms (and/or the 4E ruleset, for that matter), I say have fun, because in the end, that's what it's all about. I and our group's other DM had already diverged our collective timeline far from where the "official" one ended up anyway, but a number of events fit nicely with our ideas, and we fit them into the background. The grandchildren of Azoun IV are *completely* different from canon, not least in their ages; the oldest (Azoun V, of course) is already ten years old when his grandfather dies. Vangerdahast is still the Mage Royal of Cormyr, and he is training his (and Qilue's) daughter to succeed him. Szass Tam is Autarch of Thay, Dambrath has taken over the Shaar, and the risen Imaskari have conquered Mulhorand and the former Unther. Plenty of evil afoot. Oh, and we're using 3.5 rules, with gradual integration of and changeover to Pathfinder. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 00:52:28
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them.
I am confused, are you stating that you are glad you skipped the 3e Realms but are happy with the butchery of the 4e Realms? Or just that you are happy that you skipped the 3e Realms?
I'd also like to point out that many people on the current design team were there back in 2000.
Yes, but unfortunately at least one went from a driving force to someone they asked questions of, listened to kindly then still did their own thang! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 16:36:07
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them.
I am confused, are you stating that you are glad you skipped the 3e Realms but are happy with the butchery of the 4e Realms? Or just that you are happy that you skipped the 3e Realms?
I'd also like to point out that many people on the current design team were there back in 2000. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 16:35:02
quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I always thought this whole "Points of Light" concept was already in gaming and one of the main points of gaming, and what DMs strived to setup in their games. When they announced it as being a new model by which to run games off of, the first thing I thought of was "They're just now discovering this?"
I agree with that. However, I would say there is a push (in the "core setting", at least) for a world that's even less civilized. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 16:33:28
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I'm not sure what Wizards means when they say "A Points of Light setting" but if they are referring to a setting where setting up a trade convoy is a dangerous mission, where wandering off the beaten path is dangerous, where outside of the city walls (and inside!) is dangerous.
My personal opinion, based on all I have read so far, is that PoL refers to all of the above (being inside a "point of light" doesn't guarantee safety and security, but of course that's always been true, everywhere.
I would add that PoL implies that "beaten paths" are few and far in-between. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 18:04:21
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them.
I am confused, are you stating that you are glad you skipped the 3e Realms but are happy with the butchery of the 4e Realms? Or just that you are happy that you skipped the 3e Realms? |
| Varl |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 16:35:18
I always thought this whole "Points of Light" concept was already in gaming and one of the main points of gaming, and what DMs strived to setup in their games. When they announced it as being a new model by which to run games off of, the first thing I thought of was "They're just now discovering this?" |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 15:58:49
The Realms in 3E were a points of light setting in many places. There were places that were safer but even the safest places had dangerous elements.
I'm not sure what Wizards means when they say "A Points of Light setting" but if they are referring to a setting where setting up a trade convoy is a dangerous mission, where wandering off the beaten path is dangerous, where outside of the city walls (and inside!) is dangerous.
Well, the Realms is that. Already, without 4E. |
| Shilo99 |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 14:32:59
Good calls by Markustay & Jorkens!
As Rinonalyrna said: the 1e Grey Box Realms was perfect for a points of light style campaign setting.
I was actually looking forward to seeing how the Points of Light philosophy might work in 4e FR, and was hoping for a return to a 1e style landscape and campaign feel which suits a PoL setting perfectly: lots of scattered city states with long, dangerous trade routes in between; isolated Dales with gloomy wild woods all about; struggling independent cities in the wild of the Savage Frontier perched on the bones of dozens of failed former realms; a dangerous Anauroch bereft of civilisation, and few large nations to lord it over Faerun. The Grey Box exuded this style of setting & play, right down to the fantastic Current Clack entries, which spoke about far away events with the right amount of PoL-style ignorance and wonder.
Instead in 4e FRCS we see a bloated Cormyr, Sembia/Netheril an empire with evil undercurrents (albeit with a couple of cities broken away), Vaasan kingdom (though interesting), and fewer interesting areas with a number of struggling city states (no Vilhon Reach, Cities of the North Coast, Western Heartlands).
An oppurtunity wasted perhaps to both drive home the core 4e world philosphy, and also appeal to diehard FR fans...
Shilo |
| questing gm |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 11:27:30
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The Faerun of old already was a points of light setting in many areas. If a PoL style of play was desired, it was possible to use the old Realms setting for that.
Agreed!
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The Dales were pretty much set-up that way from the start: civilised lands with woods and mountains a short distance away filled with all sorts of monsters, ruins and what-not. Leave the main road and you'd better be ready for a fight ...
Case in Point! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 23:53:55
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Can you give some more detail about that?
I can't. 
I was told by someone 'in the know' (LFR) that Memnon was released and now controls most of Calimshan. That would mean that Calim would have also been released, but I have no clue weather he survived as well. It would also mean the desert - artificially created by those two's imprisonment - would start to become fertile again. This is supported by the fact that the Chult excerpt map clearly showed forest in Calimshan where none existed before.
And thats all I got.
I plan on doing my own Frankenstein version, combining parts of the 4e setting and new continental outline with older material, NPCs, and locales, and then set the whole thing in 1390 DR - post-Spellplague, but soon enough after for me to Cherry-pick from both.
And only the folks I say died actually die IMG. |
| Colman |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 23:32:11
The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 22:37:05
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
I still - coming from 2e ten years ago to 4e - can't get my head around the map shrink.
What exactly did they do?
The 3E map shrink? Basically, exactly what Jorkens said--pieces of the Realms that were deemed "empty space" were snipped out of the map, making the Realms feel more "crowded". WotC basically valued the opposite of what they do now--they wanted the population centers to be closer and more easily traveled to. They also emphasized the use of portals in the Realms, making the world even smaller for PCs.
Funny, how things change. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 22:34:24
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Can you give some more detail about that? |
| Colman |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 20:36:14
I still - coming from 2e ten years ago to 4e - can't get my head around the map shrink.
What exactly did they do? |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:33:37
Generally it has been a tendency for the last ten years to turn everything on its head, so I am not really that surprised with what is happening. And then there is the shrinking of the map for 3ed. This caused much of the "point of light" feeling to disappear, as the areas cut were mostly large stretches of wilderness. Although I must admit that I felt that it started already in the late 2ed. with Luruar. The wilderness feeling of the North was lessened a bit with that.
Come to think of it why does the description above sound like the description of the original Dragonlance setting. Strange, I feel I am actually tempted to buy the books. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:33:22
It seems very point of light to me.. the countries themselves seem much smaller and more defined.. leaving big gaps in between. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:21:24
Personally, I thought it was FAR MORE POL before - they created several new Kingdoms, and even broke the Thayans in half (creating two such groups).
The Anauroch is no longer an empty desert, Cormyr has now spread its borders deeper in the 'wild regions', Elturgard is a new Kingdom in The North, as is the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Baldur's Gate has become the 'New York City' of the Realms, Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released, the Imaskari are making a return in the Raurin, Unther is no longer a war-torn battleground, etc, etc.. In 3e and earlier, there were NEVER any clear-cut borders between Realms; now there are...
I really want to play in a POL setting; thats why I'll be using all my 3e material.  |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 18:27:54
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The Faerun of old already was a points of light setting in many areas. If a PoL style of play was desired, it was possible to use the old Realms setting for that.
Of course it was |
| Kes_Alanadel |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 14:41:10
*Shrug* I'm not surprised. Wotc has lied to their customers in the past, why change now?
'No, we aren't planning 4e.' 'We won't make Faerun a points of light setting.'
~Kes |
| Colman |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 14:33:43
The Dales were pretty much set-up that way from the start: civilised lands with woods and mountains a short distance away filled with all sorts of monsters, ruins and what-not. Leave the main road and you'd better be ready for a fight ... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 14:26:55
The Faerun of old already was a points of light setting in many areas. If a PoL style of play was desired, it was possible to use the old Realms setting for that.
By the way, Urza, your title is a bit confusing, with the double negative. |
| RodOdom |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 09:47:42
Lie ? Wotzy? Noooo ! |
| Colman |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 09:30:32
Well, Cormyr doesn't seem points-of-light, or at least no more than ever it was. Well, the Eastern reaches have got a bit wilder and those trade routes are compromised. |
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