| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nahum |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 18:31:45
We know that most Red Wizards tend to worship Kossuth the Firelord.But what do necromantic Red Wizards worship? Im not sure if they worship Velsharoon because I dont think wizards of the House of Necromancy would worship a god was a rival of their Zulkir n wasn't a Thayan loyalist or a Mulan. |
| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Icelander |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 17:28:11
I noted that there is a temple of Talos in Bezantur. How do the clergy there reconcile their beliefs with the fact that Red Wizards think nothing of controlling the weather over their entire country?
Such disrespect for Talos must smack of heresy and intolerable arrogance on par with Karsus's treatment of Mystra. AFter all, if the weather is controlled by wizards, what need is there for the Lord of Storms? In a land where the ruling magicians wield power of fire, lighting, earthquake and destruction; Talos must seem almost redundant.
Either the temple there holds views that are less extreme than the rest of the church (and perhaps embrace wizards as agents of destruction, e.g. Lords of the Tempest) or there is constant tension (not to say 'state of war') between the Talassans of the temple and the ruling Red Wizards. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 22:55:32
In my personal campaign in the Realms, I usually have Set as the primary god of necromancers (and many other wizards) from Thay...I think Slayvas is right, it just seems a natural fit because of their hatred of Mulhorand; and a fit for Set to court their worship because he wants to take over. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 20:57:56
This is a good question and one I've wondered with the recent changes. I can see many red wizards worshipping Velsharoon, seeing him as one who was denied the brass ring by those controlling the system, yet he reached out his hand and stole power. Would Szass Tam worship him? I'd say that's an emphatic no! Would Velsharoon mess with Tam... well, up until 1385, I'd have said yes.
As to other deities of undeath. I can see a very few worshipping Orcus... very few, because worship of demon princes is generally considered beneath them. I can see some giving homage to Kiaransalee, but probably not actual worship. Oddly enough, I can see a few worshipping Set, as an enemy god of the Mulhorandi pantheon and lord of black magic. Then there's Talona, with disease and undeath running almost hand in hand. Still, I'd bet the numbers of all those combined wouldn't match to those worshipping Bane, Shar, Kossuth, and Talos. Cyric worship I'd imagine dropped off sharply when he lost the realm of the dead. |
| Kheris |
Posted - 28 Mar 2008 : 14:35:10
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to.
I believe that's about right--he's probably the type who thinks of the gods as just being very powerful mortals.
I thought he was smarter than that. o.0
More of Tam's view on deities is shown in Undead, and Rin is correct, he views them as extremely powerful beings, but nothing to kneel to. <spoilers ahead>
When he summons (what is probably just an avatar of) Bane, he treats him in much the same way a powerful Conjurer treats a Demon Prince he's summoned. Actually no, Tam showed less respect than that.
Keep in mind, several Realms deities started out as mortals, so Tam's view isn't entirely unfounded. |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 28 Mar 2008 : 14:22:57
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Velsharoon and Szass Tam were rivals for the position of zulkir. Tam would never, ever worship him as a god.
-- George Krashos
Especially since he won.
Tough to respect a god who you personally beat. 
You might be a little confused and miffed that the punk became a god but that just means that gods in general can't be all that great.
Further, Tam, while not stupid, is certainly a megalomaniac. It's tough not to be megalomaniacal when you're on Tam's level (though his relationship with Larloch probably provides a much needed source of humility *g*) |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 22:28:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'd say Velsharoon, because it makes the most sense. Once someone attains 'godhood', I don't think its wise for a mortal to continue a grudge... and Tam's certainly not the stupid type.
And there is that 'family resemblance'. 
Velsharoon and Szass Tam were rivals for the position of zulkir. Tam would never, ever worship him as a god.
-- George Krashos
|
| Faraer |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:57:38
The DM's Sourcebook has a few sample Red Wizards, including Naglatha who favours Azuth (a deity not mentioned above) and the necromancer Alzegund who worships Kossuth primarily. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:49:48
I'd say Velsharoon, because it makes the most sense. Once someone attains 'godhood', I don't think its wise for a mortal to continue a grudge... and Tam's certainly not the stupid type.
And there is that 'family resemblance'. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:47:47
Tam used to venerate Myrkul, btw, according to Dreams of the Red Wizards and Horde Campaign.
After the ToT's, who knows. |
| khorne |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:29:51
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to.
I believe that's about right--he's probably the type who thinks of the gods as just being very powerful mortals.
I thought he was smarter than that. o.0 |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:50:26
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Nahum
u think the Churh of Velsharoon operates in Thay?
I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't.
Depends on how much Tam dislikes Velsharoon and if he knows it's the same guy who was his rival.
Of course a God has a few tricks he could throw out there to build an underground following to the point where Tam couldn't effectively do much about it.
Depends on what you want I'd say. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:24:14
quote:
Originally posted by Nahum
u think the Churh of Velsharoon operates in Thay?
I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:23:14
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to.
I believe that's about right--he's probably the type who thinks of the gods as just being very powerful mortals.
By the way, Nahum, try to be patient when waiting for answers--sometimes it takes a while for people to answer your question. |
| Nahum |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:00:51
u think the Churh of Velsharoon operates in Thay? |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:53:46
They probably worship a variety of gods between them. Talona, Shar, Myrkul, Bane, Jergal, Gargauth, Juiblex. Necromancers don't have to worship a god of necromancy, just as fighters don't have to worship a god of fighting, and thieves and god of stealing. |
| Nahum |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:50:31
What about the necromancers working for him? |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:43:59
Well, I don't think anyone's really sure what Jergal is, but he kinda looks mummified. Plus, the only other non-realms specific undead deity from Monster Mythology is Kanchelsis, Lord of Vampires.
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to. |
| Nahum |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:36:57
Are there any other undead deities apart from Orcus,Velsharoon/Mellifleur? |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:29:37
Oh. AND Vaprak. |
| Nahum |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:29:24
What god do u think Szass Tam worships? or is he one of the faithless? |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:28:51
Oh. I missed out Hoar and Moander from that list of Temples. Heh. |
| Nahum |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:27:28
Bezantur is also known as the "City of a Thousand Temples" lol |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:14:16
Additionally, and again according to 'Spellbound,' Bezantur, the largest city in Thay has temples to the following deities:
Umberlee, Sharess, Gargauth, Garagos, Entropy, Jergal, Loviatar, Mystra, Malar, Talona, Cyric (perhaps now reverted to Bane?), Auril, Oghma, Shar, Lliira, Sune, Myrkul (even after his death, the former High Priest continues to worship alone), Talos, Iyachtu Xvim (most likely now reverted to Bane), Tempus, Tyr, Beshaba, Leira, Gond, Helm, Kossuth, Orcish Gods, Mask, Bane (small number of priests), Lolth, and Juiblex
That is a lot of Temples! |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:08:05
I've noted many different faiths in Thay...including the worship of Lolth.
Ones I remember off the top of my head: Bane, Cyric, Kossuth, Mystra, Mask, Lolth and I think even Waukeen (not sure about her, but I think I remember something about her because of the new mercantile face of Thay).
I'm sure there are others also. |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:07:14
According to the 2E accessory 'Spellbound':
The usual evil gods and goddesses are worshipped in the Red Wizards' realm - Beshaba, Loviatar, Malar, Shar, Talona, Umberlee, and the quasi-power Gargauth the Outcast all have devoted followings.
...
In addition, the humans of Thay are not reticent about adopting other races' deities, such as Juiblex, Lolth, and Vaprak, into their evil pantheon.
These are in addition to Kossuth, of course. |
| Nahum |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 18:53:21
Any comments? |
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