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Nahum
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 18:31:45
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We know that most Red Wizards tend to worship Kossuth the Firelord.But what do necromantic Red Wizards worship? Im not sure if they worship Velsharoon because I dont think wizards of the House of Necromancy would worship a god was a rival of their Zulkir n wasn't a Thayan loyalist or a Mulan.
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Nahum
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 18:53:21
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| Any comments? |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:07:14
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According to the 2E accessory 'Spellbound':
The usual evil gods and goddesses are worshipped in the Red Wizards' realm - Beshaba, Loviatar, Malar, Shar, Talona, Umberlee, and the quasi-power Gargauth the Outcast all have devoted followings.
...
In addition, the humans of Thay are not reticent about adopting other races' deities, such as Juiblex, Lolth, and Vaprak, into their evil pantheon.
These are in addition to Kossuth, of course. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:08:05
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I've noted many different faiths in Thay...including the worship of Lolth.
Ones I remember off the top of my head: Bane, Cyric, Kossuth, Mystra, Mask, Lolth and I think even Waukeen (not sure about her, but I think I remember something about her because of the new mercantile face of Thay).
I'm sure there are others also. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:14:16
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Additionally, and again according to 'Spellbound,' Bezantur, the largest city in Thay has temples to the following deities:
Umberlee, Sharess, Gargauth, Garagos, Entropy, Jergal, Loviatar, Mystra, Malar, Talona, Cyric (perhaps now reverted to Bane?), Auril, Oghma, Shar, Lliira, Sune, Myrkul (even after his death, the former High Priest continues to worship alone), Talos, Iyachtu Xvim (most likely now reverted to Bane), Tempus, Tyr, Beshaba, Leira, Gond, Helm, Kossuth, Orcish Gods, Mask, Bane (small number of priests), Lolth, and Juiblex
That is a lot of Temples! |
Edited by - Na-Gang on 27 Mar 2008 19:22:21 |
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Nahum
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:27:28
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| Bezantur is also known as the "City of a Thousand Temples" lol |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:28:51
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| Oh. I missed out Hoar and Moander from that list of Temples. Heh. |
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Nahum
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:29:24
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| What god do u think Szass Tam worships? or is he one of the faithless? |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:29:37
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| Oh. AND Vaprak. |
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Nahum
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:36:57
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| Are there any other undead deities apart from Orcus,Velsharoon/Mellifleur? |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:43:59
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Well, I don't think anyone's really sure what Jergal is, but he kinda looks mummified. Plus, the only other non-realms specific undead deity from Monster Mythology is Kanchelsis, Lord of Vampires.
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to. |
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Nahum
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:50:31
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| What about the necromancers working for him? |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 19:53:46
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| They probably worship a variety of gods between them. Talona, Shar, Myrkul, Bane, Jergal, Gargauth, Juiblex. Necromancers don't have to worship a god of necromancy, just as fighters don't have to worship a god of fighting, and thieves and god of stealing. |
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Nahum
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:00:51
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| u think the Churh of Velsharoon operates in Thay? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to.
I believe that's about right--he's probably the type who thinks of the gods as just being very powerful mortals.
By the way, Nahum, try to be patient when waiting for answers--sometimes it takes a while for people to answer your question. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 Mar 2008 20:23:57 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:24:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Nahum
u think the Churh of Velsharoon operates in Thay?
I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 20:50:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Nahum
u think the Churh of Velsharoon operates in Thay?
I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't.
Depends on how much Tam dislikes Velsharoon and if he knows it's the same guy who was his rival.
Of course a God has a few tricks he could throw out there to build an underground following to the point where Tam couldn't effectively do much about it.
Depends on what you want I'd say. :) |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:29:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to.
I believe that's about right--he's probably the type who thinks of the gods as just being very powerful mortals.
I thought he was smarter than that. o.0 |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:47:47
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Tam used to venerate Myrkul, btw, according to Dreams of the Red Wizards and Horde Campaign.
After the ToT's, who knows. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:49:48
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I'd say Velsharoon, because it makes the most sense. Once someone attains 'godhood', I don't think its wise for a mortal to continue a grudge... and Tam's certainly not the stupid type.
And there is that 'family resemblance'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2008 21:51:05 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 21:57:38
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| The DM's Sourcebook has a few sample Red Wizards, including Naglatha who favours Azuth (a deity not mentioned above) and the necromancer Alzegund who worships Kossuth primarily. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 22:28:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'd say Velsharoon, because it makes the most sense. Once someone attains 'godhood', I don't think its wise for a mortal to continue a grudge... and Tam's certainly not the stupid type.
And there is that 'family resemblance'.
Velsharoon and Szass Tam were rivals for the position of zulkir. Tam would never, ever worship him as a god.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2008 : 14:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Velsharoon and Szass Tam were rivals for the position of zulkir. Tam would never, ever worship him as a god.
-- George Krashos
Especially since he won.
Tough to respect a god who you personally beat. 
You might be a little confused and miffed that the punk became a god but that just means that gods in general can't be all that great.
Further, Tam, while not stupid, is certainly a megalomaniac. It's tough not to be megalomaniacal when you're on Tam's level (though his relationship with Larloch probably provides a much needed source of humility *g*) |
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2008 : 14:35:10
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
I imagine Szass Tam long ago gave up the idea that Gods were creatures that he would deign to kneel to.
I believe that's about right--he's probably the type who thinks of the gods as just being very powerful mortals.
I thought he was smarter than that. o.0
More of Tam's view on deities is shown in Undead, and Rin is correct, he views them as extremely powerful beings, but nothing to kneel to. <spoilers ahead>
When he summons (what is probably just an avatar of) Bane, he treats him in much the same way a powerful Conjurer treats a Demon Prince he's summoned. Actually no, Tam showed less respect than that.
Keep in mind, several Realms deities started out as mortals, so Tam's view isn't entirely unfounded. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12093 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 20:57:56
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This is a good question and one I've wondered with the recent changes. I can see many red wizards worshipping Velsharoon, seeing him as one who was denied the brass ring by those controlling the system, yet he reached out his hand and stole power. Would Szass Tam worship him? I'd say that's an emphatic no! Would Velsharoon mess with Tam... well, up until 1385, I'd have said yes.
As to other deities of undeath. I can see a very few worshipping Orcus... very few, because worship of demon princes is generally considered beneath them. I can see some giving homage to Kiaransalee, but probably not actual worship. Oddly enough, I can see a few worshipping Set, as an enemy god of the Mulhorandi pantheon and lord of black magic. Then there's Talona, with disease and undeath running almost hand in hand. Still, I'd bet the numbers of all those combined wouldn't match to those worshipping Bane, Shar, Kossuth, and Talos. Cyric worship I'd imagine dropped off sharply when he lost the realm of the dead. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 22:55:32
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| In my personal campaign in the Realms, I usually have Set as the primary god of necromancers (and many other wizards) from Thay...I think Slayvas is right, it just seems a natural fit because of their hatred of Mulhorand; and a fit for Set to court their worship because he wants to take over. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 17:28:11
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I noted that there is a temple of Talos in Bezantur. How do the clergy there reconcile their beliefs with the fact that Red Wizards think nothing of controlling the weather over their entire country?
Such disrespect for Talos must smack of heresy and intolerable arrogance on par with Karsus's treatment of Mystra. AFter all, if the weather is controlled by wizards, what need is there for the Lord of Storms? In a land where the ruling magicians wield power of fire, lighting, earthquake and destruction; Talos must seem almost redundant.
Either the temple there holds views that are less extreme than the rest of the church (and perhaps embrace wizards as agents of destruction, e.g. Lords of the Tempest) or there is constant tension (not to say 'state of war') between the Talassans of the temple and the ruling Red Wizards. |
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Red Wizard Deities
