| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 20:42:07
So I was reading Races and Classes in Borders today, and while I disagree with almost everything they were saying (and most especially with their underlying ideas and design concepts), I found myself lingering over the halfling section, and it started me thinking.
Because, as much as it pains me to admit it, they're right. There isn't a major PC race based out of the swamps in D&D. And while I have no intention of changing the existing halfling race, a "swamp halfling" seems to me to be a viable contender for a sub-culture.
That's the purpose of this thread: to explore the feasability of a 4e halfling culture in the existing Realms. They're a boat culture, using swamps and rivers to move from place to place. They have no cities or borders. So, obviously, we need to look for wetlands, preferably with a "Louisianna bayou" feel. What's required:
* A swamp or marsh (obviously)
* Must have navigatble river connections to the outside world
* Must also have cities/towns along the swamp/rivers for the halflings to trade with
* Preferably be in an area with a history of halflings (my feeling is they were orignally "normal" halflings who were invaded and fled to the swamps for safety)
Trying to come up with ideas, I whipped out my trusting FR Atlas and rediscovered that the Realms is, well, BIG. Swamp halflings would have to be a regional thing, there's no way they can cover the whole continent. Moreover, there are a number of marshes that wouldn't work very well for the concept (the Evermoors and the Lizard Marsh, for example), since they're either too dangerous or don't have proper connections. Plus, it can't be too far north or the itinerant halflings will freeze to death in the winter.
At the moment, my two leading contenders are the Spider Swamp (connections to Volothamp and Almraiven) or the Marsh of Chelimbyr (which is big enough, but doesn't have surrounding cities or towns). Alternately, we could scale the boats up a bit and move them to the Lake of Steam, but I'd first like to give the 4e halflings a shot in the swamps.
What do you all think? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 06 Jun 2012 : 06:59:12
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Tunlands - they're perfect.
Two swamps, central location... I even made a map of the area for the maproom here, with swamp-towns marked.
just say the Drovers are halflings, and everything fits.
Its even cooler when you think about the halfling keeping Catoblepas and milking them like cattle. 
I just hope Luiren doesn't get hit with some crazy-@ss tidle wave after 1385, and the whole country is a swamp a hundred years later. 
Ohhhh...the irony. |
| Shilo99 |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 13:41:23
OK, I've had a bit more of a read:
I don’t have the 4e book Races & Classes, but this week’s article on the WotC site on Halflings...http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080208a
...paints them more as wandering riverfolk than swampy-dwellers.
This being the case, some other FR references to riverfolk that could well include halflings:
I recall the River Chionthar as being the home to riverfolk/bargefolk (references…hmmm, FRCS maybe, or back to 2e Volo’s Guides to the Sword Coast or FR Adventures…I just saw a reference to riverboat convoys near Elturel) Given a fair number of halflings dwelling in the Western Heartlands (4% of population, many from Corm Orp area), some of these folk could well be Halflings.
Likewise the River Ashaba is known to be the home of riverfolk (ref. Volos Guide to the Dales under Featherdale? Again, some possibly Halflings.
Likewise with the Cities of the North Coast on the southern coast of the Aglarondan peninsula (damned I wish they had a proper name for this area: I always referred to this area as Tethrannar, from the old Yuir term (OK, nicked from Tolkien) Nan-Tethran, or Land of Willows). This whole region has plenty of not-well mapped or described coastal waters that could host boating/fishing halflings (perhaps even Deagol/Smeagol & buddies...) and could easily feature swampy climes if your so inclined.
Shilo |
| Shilo99 |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 13:39:31
Non-canon ref:
If you’re after a Louisiana bayou, even swamp pirate style/feel, may I suggest inland Impiltur?
There are plenty of big inland waters in a relatively civilised setting, and don’t forget FRCS states Impiltur’s population is 4% halfling. Though not specifically referred to in the FRCS, the inland region of Bluefang Water, Bay Town and the Old Water (big lakes on the Great Imphras River on FRCS map) is given more airtime in the 1e ref FR9 Bloodstone Lands, as being a lawless land of backwaters and swamps and roguishness. Based on this I suggested this feel for the Part 7 of the Northern Journey series. In that module (available here at Candlekeep) the NJ team detail many locations in that region.
This lawless land, but not necessarily uncivilised wilderness, sounds just right for some larcenous travelling halflings (you could invoke the gypsy cliché here), and with plenty of river and swamp terrain to occupy without too much canon stating otherwise, I think it’s the perfect spot for anyone’s vision of lake/swamp-dwelling, raft-using hobbits.
Shilo |
| Shilo99 |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 12:55:30
All,
Xysma is referencing “Halflings of Chessenta: The Bard of Adder Swamp” from 01/02/02: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20020102a
The Rand's Travelogue article entitled ‘More of the Unapproachable East!’ at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20020313rt
States that Aglarond's coast is also home to a few hundred halflings, mainly expatriates from Chessenta. Not sure if it has any relation to the above reference, but regardless, Aglarond’s ample coastline leaves plenty of room for swamp-dwelling, or at least shallow coastal water-dwelling Halflings raft/boat-lovers. Even the human Aglarondans are wont to hug the coastline & get about in their coastboats (a reference that goes back to 1e Grey Box).
Shilo |
| Mr. Wilson |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 08:02:04
Amusingly enough, in my homebrew the Halflings did indeed settle in the rivers and swamp regions of the main continent. Of course, that was only because they were late comers to the continent and that was what was left.
|
| Hawkins |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 19:33:59
Aravine, here is a link to the latest Countdown to the Realms article: "Magic in the Forgotten Realms" by Bruce Cordell.
As for placing the swam halflings in the 3.x and before Realms, this map (from the 3e FRCS) shows that there is already a swamp in Luiren, called the Mortik Swamp. I do not remember all of the details surrounding it off the top of my head though, other than right now it is avoided for some reason. However, just like the Murkwood in the Hobbit and LOTR, you could have it cleansed of its evil and inhabited. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 19:32:00
Dunno, when reading about 4E halflings, Cher's song sprang to mind immediately: "Gypsies, tramps and thieves". |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 19:09:03
I take it you haven't heard about the latest 4e Faerun-smashings. Check the Realms RPG Products sub-forum. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 18:41:57
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
With much of the inner sea draining into the underdark.... any chance of some of those areas turning from pure water areas into swampy areas? That might work.
huh? |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 18:32:13
Which is why I was curious if we could make this work in the existing Realms... since I have no intention of switching. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 18:01:00
Also, with the detonation of Halruaa, one must wonder what condition nearby Lurien (I know that it is quite a bit aways, but when Mt. St. Helens blew, ash ended up all around the world) is in. Ah, the major changes to the face of Toril depress me.  |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 16:23:09
With much of the inner sea draining into the underdark.... any chance of some of those areas turning from pure water areas into swampy areas? That might work. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 05:31:36
When I read this, it brought to mind and older bit of Realmslore (from WotC site if I remember correctly) concerning Baron Phlensos Ursuma (CN male halfling Brd14)who runs the Ursuman Amusement Emporium in the Adder Swamp. The Emporium is s small settlement of halflings "governed" by Baron Phlensos and protected the Captain of the Ursuman Guard, Grevas (NE male werecrocodile Rgr6). While some of it was admittedly silly, I thought the basic premise was interesting enough that I worked it in to my Realms and even worked some of the lore into one of my character histories.
Using this new concept of the swamp halfling, it would be easy to make the Adder Swamp a large halfling settlement, with the wererats, werecrocodiles, and halflings fighting for dominance. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 18:26:12
I'll have to track that down. Thanks. |
| AlorinDawn |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 19:50:57
For those of you who want a Cajun style halfing for 3E+ they can be found with all kinds of swappy goodies of lore and crunch in the book Quagmire by Spellbinder books. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 19:18:54
Some minor homebrew lore - I had the Halfling survivors of Black Oaks flee north to the tiny hamlet of Collinwood, shown on my Stonelands maps.
The locale is NON-canon, but the tiny village is ruled over by the Barnibaas Family, who's family castle has sat upon those lands since Cormry's beginning.
The mysterious Count who currently rules has aquired a strange affection for the small folk, and is very protective of them, now that they've come to live in his lands. Also, prosperity has increased, with the Halflings building new farms and bringing in new trades, so it wasn't a bad idea for the old Count to take them in.
For those of you who haven't realized it yet, the Count is losely based on Barnabas Collins, a character from the old American TV show Dark Shadows.  |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 13:10:42
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
There's actually quite a few halflings in Cormyr... if I remember well, the Waterdeep adventure details a village of halflings north of Jester's Green or south of the King's Forest (isn't this where the mortal Cyric - in the adventure - horribly scars one of the PCs or a halfling from that village -- DM's choice?)
Well, details are not really given. However, the villiage you remember must be the small halfling village of Black Oaks, which is (or better 'was' as Cyric and his band of Zhentilar destroy it completely) not far from Starwater Bridge near the village of Hilp. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 11:13:31
A swamp/river culture would also make it easier to insert some of Eds hin pirate ideas from the old Five Shires suplement. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 19:58:19
There's actually quite a few halflings in Cormyr... if I remember well, the Waterdeep adventure details a village of halflings north of Jester's Green or south of the King's Forest (isn't this where the mortal Cyric - in the adventure - horribly scars one of the PCs or a halfling from that village -- DM's choice?) |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 16:59:06
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
It's not highly unlikely that WotC might create an entirely new swamp in the 4e Realms only for the purpose of having halflings live there. They could change the ecology and geography of an existing swamp (any swamps you mentioned earlier could apply basically or even the March of Tun or the Farsea Marches) into a refugee place for halflings... Lurien might be entirely wetland in the 4th Ed. Markustay seems to think in similar lines. And who is to know? Due to the catalysistic (spelling?) effects of the spellplague and the great time jump almost everything is possible.
There are many things that I thought that WotC were not likely to do with the Realms, and many of them have been implemented in the 4e version. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 09:47:11
It's not highly unlikely that WotC might create an entirely new swamp in the 4e Realms only for the purpose of having halflings live there. They could change the ecology and geography of an existing swamp (any swamps you mentioned earlier could apply basically or even the March of Tun or the Farsea Marches) into a refugee place for halflings... Lurien might be entirely wetland in the 4th Ed. Markustay seems to think in similar lines. And who is to know? Due to the catalysistic (spelling?) effects of the spellplague and the great time jump almost everything is possible. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 08:08:24
The Tunlands - they're perfect.
Two swamps, central location... I even made a map of the area for the maproom here, with swamp-towns marked.
just say the Drovers are halflings, and everything fits.
Its even cooler when you think about the halfling keeping Catoblepas and milking them like cattle.
I just hope Luiren doesn't get hit with some crazy-@ss tidle wave after 1385, and the whole country is a swamp a hundred years later. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 06:13:52
I agree the logic is a little mind-bending.
Right now, I'm looking for a theoretical discussion of whether swamp halflings make sense in Faerun. That's a different, though equally important, thread. For this one, assume that it makes sense, at least on a local level. Where would you put them and why? |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 04:11:24
So halflings are good rogues/thieves/bards... but they're swamp monsters... makes perfect sense. |
| Sian |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 03:24:50
well ... Halflings ARE a rather nomadic race ... when you read about Lurien its even said that it aren't unusual that someone (anyone) moves away overnight, leaving pretty much anything they aren't wearing and going to another place where they move into a house there is everything needed (even the job of the former 'houseowner' is in the package) i can happen as often as every 6'th month for some afair
but well ... even though a water/swamp link is rather easily plugable down into Realms as it is there is still this small problem about Halflings as a race aren't to fond of open waters with anything remotely looking like waves so they'll proberly keep themselfs well into a swamp or well up an river |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 01:00:40
Yeah, I'm starting to doubt the prospect myself, considering how hard it is to find a fitting locale. Cormyr's an interesting idea, though. I hadn't thought of it, partially because it'd be too cold (they'd have to do something in the winter), and because it's so well documented, and it would be easier to slip them in somewhere that doesn't have books upon books devoted to it. I'll give it some more thought, though. Thanks. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 23:32:35
I don't think this concept fits very well in the Realms, but if you want riverboating halflings in the Realms, I'd say Cormyr would be a good candidate, especially along:
- Starwater River
- The Wyvernflow and Wyvernwater
- Darkflow River and the Vast Swamp |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 23:10:22
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I'm not saying I want to import them wholesale, only that I was curious about creating a swamp-dwelling halfling culture. The lore would obviously have to change, but before I can do that, I need to find a viable location for them, and that's where I'm falling flat.
Part of this is that I'd like to have an indigenous swamp culture in reserve, so to speak, that I can pull out if it ever becomes necessary. Since most of my games take place north of Waterdeep, that may not happen for a while, so as it stands right now, it's just an intellectual exercise.
All you need is a delta to form to have swamp like areas to form. That likely would be quickist way to add to Realm space. Flooding for many years, perhaps 100 could form such a delta.
Jungles often get boggy in places as well due to rainy season and poor drainage from those spots. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 22:19:57
Cool... I just hope they don't play banjos
Yep, I saw "Deliverance" |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 22:15:09
Since they'd be living in a southern climate, with all the attendant problems with keeping meat from spoiling, I'd say spicy food would be likely. |
