| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| rodrigoalcanza |
Posted - 04 Jun 2014 : 23:20:01
Hello!
I have a question that was never very clear to me. The verbal component of wizard spells are mystical words, esoteric, outside the known languages #8203;#8203;... are arcane. Now, how are the verbal components of clerical spells? It is similar to the arcane spells? Is it different? Are these spells more like prayers? Made in ordinary language?
As the authors portray the casting of divine spells in D&D novels?
I make this point considering all editions of D&D.
Anyone have the answer? As is done in the campaigns that you guys play?
Thanks! |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Jun 2014 : 02:53:25
Divine spells invariably invoke the name of a deity. I suppose arcane invocations also include spoken names of powerful beings; cryptic symbolisms, titles/ranks, and sobriquets might suffice ("Shadowlord" instead of Mask, "Stormlord" for Talos, "Lord of Lies" for Asmodeus, etc).
AD&D 1E had Alignment Tongues, sort of like vocabularies and contexts which could be spoken in any shared language but which would identify the speaker as being inclined towards a specific alignment. I imagine these might be partially debased and diluted versions of languages spoken on the Outer Planes - places formed from the very building blocks of belief where there might be as many subtleties in their languages between concepts like "Good" or "Chaos" as some human tongues have to finely differentiate things like snow, trees, or desert winds. Although dropped in 2E onwards, this Alignment Tongue notion would serve fairly well to provide divine spellcasting verbal components.
Later D&D presented languages for powerful Outer Planar clades - Celestial/Supernal, Demonic/Abyssal, Devilish/Infernal, etc. Again, these might provide divine spellcasting phrases. Similar, I suppose, to so-called languages like angelic Enochian or demonic Mordant in our own occult traditions.
Druids once had a secret language, Druidic, apparently taught to them through the voices of nature. One might claim this is a primordial or elemental sort of thing, or an intrinsic property of the (super)natural worlds in which druids live, or simply the manner in which their nature deities established contact. Regardless, their secret language must have obviously been involved in much of their verbal spellcasting. Note that druids had no scrolls or written form of their language in earlier game editions.
Oghma was said to have invented writing and the alphabet in Celtic lore, although I'm unsure whether this is also true in the Realms. Perhaps his priests hardly ever use verbal components and instead inscribe their words on sacrificial scraps of parchment for each casting?
Priests of Mystra might manifest spoken spellcasting components as glowing magical glyphs, drawn onto any nearby surface or even sketched into the air. Priests of Talos might shape winds. Priests of Bane might need to have their words carved into steel.
It might be argued that wizard spellbooks, scrolls, and formulae all record elements of (Mystra's?) arcane language which are utterly unspeakable by mere human entities. Little spells like magic missile apparently involve only a simple syllable of this language, whereas teleport does as well but its higher level requirement suggests utterance of the component is more draining ... all the way up to the top-level power word spells which apparently place the most stringest demands on a wizard's talent and discipline. 1E magic-users actually had low-level spells to read, write, and speak in "the language of magic". Old-edition illusionists actually developed their own variant (unreadable to non-illusionists), called Ruathlek in early Realmslore; some mid-3E lore expanded this as only one of many specialized arcane languages in the usual D&D "one-of-everything" fashion of the time. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 05 Jun 2014 : 20:05:25
The incantations of wizardly and priestly spells are composed from human languages, Weave-words (see The Sword Never Sleeps p. 168), and other tongues. See here, and a 31 January post here on priests naming their gods in spells -- we have an example of a Tymoran detect evil in Spellfire.
(Previous incomplete can't-remember-his-own-name-style answer unceremoniously binned.) |
| eeorey |
Posted - 05 Jun 2014 : 13:25:49
I always assumed that divine spells were prayers, and the caster is basically a conduit for the power of a deity. I also assumed that the language of the prayer depends on the god you are praying to.
For instance a good god you pray to in celestial, a dragon god in draconic and so on.
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Jun 2014 : 13:20:50
Oh, and if it is just phonetics, then the obvious next question is "in what alphabet". The fact that scrolls from one world can be used by clerics in another makes me think its purely symbology, and somehow activating the symbology in the brain frees understanding of the language. Can I explain that scientifically? No, but I also can't cast divine magic. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Jun 2014 : 13:18:17
It very well may not be a language, but rather phonetics, and when it comes to scrolls, the majority of the scroll may be symbology that one's minds has to somehow interpret, and in interpreting it it triggers the symbols fading from the paper. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 05 Jun 2014 : 04:08:43
Well back in the old days when there was only one BD&D (I notice, that part of 5th Edition is also being called BD&D) it appeared that divine spells could be written in common or other known language. Any one could read that however a Cleric was the only one that could activate the magic of the scroll. I do not at the moment what AD&D had to say about writing Clerical scrolls. It might be possible though the words could be simple, In the name I Helm I cure you, type of thing. Of course it could not be that simple even if common was used to cure wounds, because of the variations of levels of healing. Even BD&D never offered wording for Clerical spells, just indicated the scrolls could be in common.
It is quite possible that it was intended for the DM to set degree of actual words required to be said or read in a role play. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 04 Jun 2014 : 23:55:25
Interesting question with probably no definate answer.
I'd say most divine spells that require a single action to cast involve abbreviated lines and ending words of more complete prayers. The prayers are first accounted to their gods in worship except for the part that completes it, and are not effectively completed untill cast with their verbal components.
Some divine spells (Holy and Unholy Word) are actual words of power because they are part of the proto celestial language of creation, or even the language used in the naming of all things in the multiverse (truenaming). |
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