| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Madpig |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 17:20:19
Hi, My first own topic after a while here in the Keep. Now one thing has crossed my mind (actually two).
Firstly has RAS invented Drow signlanguage? Because if he has, I have rather strong feeling on where he has got some influence on it.
Second thing is, has anybody noted some rather obivous connections between the Drow Signlanguage and Drasnian signlanguage in Belgariad? Thing why i think this might be the case is RAS has stated he likes Belgariad rather lot. (Source is Cleric Quintets foreword). Anybody got any insights in this? |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 00:03:30
I didn't assume anything.
What I said is that if anything, D.E. 'could have' gotten it from D&D/drow. I do NOT believe that is what occurred, I was pointing out what could be possible going by the timeline.
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 22:36:10
Even ye olde thieves' cant of AD&D 1E involved "a mixture of special words and gestures hidden within common language, conveying certain meaning to thieves". |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 18:36:23
I agree with Wooly.
However, Madpig, the D&D drow silent language definitely predates David Eddings publishing anything except THE HIGH HUNT, his first (and modern-day, not fantasy)novel, so no Realms (or other D&D writer) could possibly have "copied" it from Eddings.
Silent signal languages among organizations that are outcast or thieves or of another faith than the prevailing local culture is an old, old part of real-world culture (and writings).
Ed had silent gesture languages in the Realms back in some short stories published in 1968, long before David Eddings had published anything.
love,
THO |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 18:00:35
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And 'hand signals' have been in use by military for thousands of years, and since the Drow are all about fighting everyone they meet, it makes sense its a major part of their culture.
Just for reference, The first book in The Belgariad was written in 1982 (good series, BTW), so given the timing, if anything, I would say David Eddigs 'may have' gotten inspiration from D&D Drow (since I assume many fantasy authors writing around the time must have been aware of D&D on some level).
Given your first statement -- and the fact that it's an obvious solution for silent communication -- I still don't see a reason to assume any author had to take the inspiration for handcant from any fictional source. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 17:58:33
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
quote:
Originally posted by Entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Better to ask what something is and look a fool, then assume something is and be a fool. - Elminster
"Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln
So who do I believe Elminister or Lincoln? Damn you two for creating this conundrum. 
I have a friend who still curses my name, years after the fact, for putting a conundrum before him: who would win, Optimus Prime or Godzilla? Said friend is a HUGE fan of both, and says it would be easier to pick his favorite grandmother! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 17:07:33
Instead of asking questions, you could just babel incoherently...
"“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull***t.” --- W.C. Fields
So if the guy asking questions runs into the guy following the above philosophy, he just gets stupider.
And 'hand signals' have been in use by military for thousands of years, and since the Drow are all about fighting everyone they meet, it makes sense its a major part of their culture.
Just for reference, The first book in The Belgariad was written in 1982 (good series, BTW), so given the timing, if anything, I would say David Eddigs 'may have' gotten inspiration from D&D Drow (since I assume many fantasy authors writing around the time must have been aware of D&D on some level). |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 16:24:20
quote:
Originally posted by Entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Better to ask what something is and look a fool, then assume something is and be a fool. - Elminster
"Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln
So who do I believe Elminister or Lincoln? Damn you two for creating this conundrum. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 09:43:16
Love the 1E UA bit. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 22:45:08
quote:
AD&D (1E) Unearthed Arcana (1985)
In addition, all dark elves "speak" the silent tongue of subterranean dwellers, a language of complex hand signals and gestures, combined with facial expressions and body language. The range of communication in this silent tongue is only 30', but it is as informative as any other language within that range. Only the drow may fully master this tongue, though other races may be taught its basic signs and symbols.
Spoken and sign versions of "Undercommon" had already been discussed in ancient issues of Dragon at least as early as 1979. It's just one of those weird little subculture things (like the "d" notation gamers use) which was intuitively understood by AD&D players long before it was formally explained/printed in any game rules. I would attribute the invention to Gygax or Moore. It certainly predated Salvatore's first Drizzt novels. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 21:06:41
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Drow silent language dates from 1981 FF.
Drow were said to use silent sign language back in the Against the Giants, Descent into the Depths of the Earth, and Vault of the Drow modules in 1978, all attributed to Gary Gygax.
I don't believe Salvatore incorporated the silent sign language into the Realmsian version of the drow until the novel Homeland, first published in 1991. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 20:10:29
Drow silent language dates from 1981 FF.
RAS was first published in 1988 (The Crystal Shard (1988) (Between 1351DR and 1356DR)) as such it clearly appears unlikely that RAS had anything about the creation of hand talk.
Oh side bit RAS = Robert Anthony Salvatore.
|
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 19:55:13
As Kentinal said, RAS is R. A. Salvatore, and I don't think he invented the drow sign because they were an established race before the Drizzt books, unless it was his idea and the creators decided to keep it, but I don't think that was the case. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 19:47:28
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Better to ask what something is and look a fool, then assume something is and be a fool. - Elminster
"Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 19:22:58
Regardless of whether or not there was outside influence, using hand gestures for silent communication is a pretty simple idea, and not at all uncommon.
Short of telepathy, controlled scents/pheromones, or writing, there's not really any other good method of communicating without being overheard. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 18:47:23
RAS (Robert A. Salvatore)has written Drizzt books.
In answer to OP, no Robert did not invent Drow Silence. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 18:05:14
Don't give me that look , am not going to assume what something stands for.
Better to ask what something is and look a fool, then assume something is and be a fool. - Elminster |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 18:01:40
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Who is RAS? ((usually should explain what you are acronyming, before you use it ))
 |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 12 Feb 2013 : 17:54:06
Who is RAS? ((usually should explain what you are acronyming, before you use it ))
An if they are both the same person, it could very well be - if you are talking about Salvatore?- the simple bit that it is coming from the same author, so he had a neat concept, that dragged over both Drow and this drasnian, and sometimes as authors are bad at and forgot to differentiated and reused an old idea. |
