| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 20:00:37
I just bought Tales From the Outer Planes, which begins (and returns) to Arabel. One of the adventures takes the characters to Olympus, and I'm now wondering if anyone here has read Relics & Rituals: Olympus (from Sword & Sorcery Press) and integrated it into their Forgotten Realms campaign? Is there an easy fit? I've been able to use other S&S books with few or no problems, but the Olympus book is a tad pricey to buy on a whim. Help, please!
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 20:21:29
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
We're veering away from my original intent for this scroll, but Gray Richardson's mention of Sune makes me want to point out two factoids that may have escaped the attention of some DMs: in Realmspace, the deity with the highest "divine rank" is Chauntea, and the deity with access to the highest level spell slot is neither Mystra nor Shar, but Sune. So much for jokes about her being just a ditzy redhead!
She seduced it out of someone.  |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 19:57:18
We're veering away from my original intent for this scroll, but Gray Richardson's mention of Sune makes me want to point out two factoids that may have escaped the attention of some DMs: in Realmspace, the deity with the highest "divine rank" is Chauntea, and the deity with access to the highest level spell slot is neither Mystra nor Shar, but Sune. So much for jokes about her being just a ditzy redhead!
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| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Aug 2007 : 00:59:55
I've never used that one, but I own quite a few others by S&S. Being a Warcraft fan, those were an easy choice, and the Beyond Countless Doorways is a Planescape fan's must-have.
I guess I'll have to grab that Olympus book at some point.
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
An even better book is Relics & Rituals: Excalibur. The knight class presented there is a better 3.5 knight in my opinion, and I think that it makes more sense if you are wanting to play a knight from Cormyr. Also, some of the prestige classes are pretty cool too. I've even toyed with running an historical campaign set during our own Crusades for my players, and have been giving the 2nd Edition book The Crusades a look over.
I have to look into that - I've been thinking about doing an 'alternate Earth' game for awhile now, something set in a world similar to what we see in the League of Extraodinary Gentlemen, but only set a few hundred years back. Maybe I should look into that tome...
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| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 20:23:30
We know that Tyche's divine realm was named Olympus. And there is good reason to believe that it was once part of the plane of Arvandor, although what remains of her realm are part of Brightwater now.
When Tyche interloped into Toril and set up her divine realm, she would called it Olympus in honor of the plane she hailed from--or perhaps just out of habit.
We don't know why Tyche settled with the elves in Arvandor. Perhaps it was an alliance forged back during the War of Light and Darkness between Selūne and Shar, when the Seldarine and Tyche answered Selūne's call for aid against Shar's fiendish hordes. Or perhaps it was a debt the Seldarine owed to Tyche for her throwing her lot in with them in their war against the Giant pantheon to seize the territory of Arvandor from the Jotuns (there are still giant ruins in Arvandor to this day.)
When Tyche split into Beshaba and Tymora during the Dawn Cataclysm, Beshaba abandoned Olympus to found a new divine realm on a more suitably darker plane, along the River of Blood. Tymora kept Tyche's realm, but no longer tied to Tyche's Greek origins, the name of the realm changed over time and came to be called the Palace/Quarter of the Great Wheel.
Eventually, Sune arose as a goddess. I suspect she is the daughter of Selūne and Lathander, but some have suggested she may be an interloping fragment of Venus, perhaps by way of Chessenta, whose ancestors may have been brought over in ancient times from Earth's Greece or Rome. Whatever her origin, Sune dwelled for a time with Selūne in the Gates of the Moon, where Selūne doted on Sune as either mother or mentor for a number of centuries. Sune eventually became enamored with the elven goddess of love, Hanali Celanil, and thus came to abide in Arvandor. She nestled her divine realm between Olympus and Hanali's Crystal Palace, abutting the Evergold.
At some point Lliira came to dwell there too. A thriving city began to evolve around their 3 realms. The city came to be known as Brightwater (presumably named after the waters of the Evergold river that flowed through the town) and it was mostly populated by the human petitioners of the three goddesses. This unified plane comprising Arvandor and Brightwater may have been called Arborea in some cultures and languages of the Realms.
But what is clear is that the pastoral elven paradise of Arvandor, and the cosmopolitan, humano-centric celestial city of Brightwater had evolved into divergent heavens, creating a cognitive dissonance that split the plane in two. We are told in the Planes of Chaos box set that Brightwater is only 50 years old.
Given the time frame in which the box set was released and what was going on in Faerun around that time, I would put the founding of Brightwater as a separate plane sometime around 1312 DR, give or take. That is purely a conjectured date, but if you figure that the elves do their great magics around the feast of Cinaelos' Cor, then it was probably a year in which a Shieldmeet occured. You could also make a case for 1308 DR, but either way I figure it happened sometime around then.
Not sure if this was a natural splitting, maybe the planes just split apart one day, or if it was effected with a ritual of some kind. I don't know if the impetus for this was an elven desire to keep Arvandor racially pure, perhaps a wave of anti-human fervor in Arvandor that overtook the populace after the elven retreat began on Toril. I don't know if the Seldarine just simply evicted the hedonistic trinity of human goddesses. Not sure if Sune, Lliira and Tymora just wanted their own pad. I would like to think it was a mutually agreeable parting of the ways, with the elves and the human gods tearfully and joyfully celebrating their parting of the ways and performing the ritual together to split the plane.
The result is that Brightwater (formerly Olympus) and Arvandor are now separate planes. But it is interesting that they still share a transplanar feature, the Evergold, which exists on both planes at once. This fountain of golden water is the wellspring from which the Evergold River streams in Arvandor and the source of the Brightwater River that runs through Brightwater, from which the plane and city take their name. I imagine that before the splitting of the planes the Brightwater and the Evergold were once the same river. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 19:49:38
Well, I consider the book well-recommended now!
I wasn't planning to use the Excalibur book -- my own game world is linked to the Grail legend. Olympus, however, can be accessed in Arabel ... well sort-of sideways through Arabel's space-time, like a ... ah ... oh, Miss Emily Litella gave the very best explanation of how these multi-portals work, when she said, "Never mind ...."
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 19:29:19
At one time wasn't there some conjecture that Sune might have some connection to Aphrodite and Gond to Hephastus? Or is this just my mind filling in blanks. I was just wondering, because perhaps if they "came over" to the Realms further back in its history, the more they have "adapted" to the local customs, gotten new names, etc. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 19:07:56
Beshaba and Tymora were once the Greek goddess Tyche... If anything remains of Tyche's realm, it could have a portal to Olympus. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 17:51:03
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
They did share the same plane in 2e.
As for the 3e/3.5e FR cosmology you could make it a separate plane or you could use the Wheel/Ring's version and just make a portal(s)/planar gateways to it from Arvandor.... Or use the World Ash to connect it to Olympus since the World Ash, most likely, expands into the other cosmologies just like Sigil does.
Sigil is of course a good way to link Olympus to the Faerunian cosmology, and so is the Infinite Staircase.
But then these greek gods should be treated as members of a non-Faerunian (or even non-Torilian) pantheon, since there seems to be no userbase in Faerun, and gods without worshippers will disappear. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 16:38:23
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
I am not sure if this (greek) Olympus also contains Arvandor in 2e so that Elfen and Greek Gods were neighbours in 2e.
But using Olympus in the Realms, to which people would it link? In the case of Heliopolis, it is connected to Mulhorand and its people, but I dont know of any human or other people venerating greek gods in Faerun.
They did share the same plane in 2e.
As for the 3e/3.5e FR cosmology you could make it a separate plane or you could use the Wheel/Ring's version and just make a portal(s)/planar gateways to it from Arvandor.... Or use the World Ash to connect it to Olympus since the World Ash, most likely, expands into the other cosmologies just like Sigil does. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 10:35:47
This scroll reminds me of my confusion when I read Evermeet, where Avandor is described as part of Olympus. This contradicts established lore of the planes in the FRCS and the PGtF, but after searching Candlekeep I learned that it is the 2e Arvandor.
To make things more complicated, there is even another usage of Olympus as realm of the greek gods (which doesnt appear in FRCS or PGtF, but that doesnt mean that this plane is not there, like a few other planes like Limbo). I am not sure if this (greek) Olympus also contains Arvandor in 2e so that Elfen and Greek Gods were neighbours in 2e.
But using Olympus in the Realms, to which people would it link? In the case of Heliopolis, it is connected to Mulhorand and its people, but I dont know of any human or other people venerating greek gods in Faerun. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 02:23:47
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Thanks for reminding me Kuje... I'd forgotten about City of Brass myself. 
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| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Aug 2007 : 01:40:20
Thanks for reminding me Kuje... I'd forgotten about City of Brass myself.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 23:06:11
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
Zn even better book is Relics & Rituals: Excalibur. The knight class presented there is a better 3.5 knight in my opinion, and I think that it makes more sense if you are wanting to play a knight from Cormyr. Also, some of the prestige classes are pretty cool too. I've even toyed with running an historical campaign set during our own Crusades for my players, and have been giving the 2nd Edition book The Crusades a look over.
...
And I realize that I've totally went off topic. Sorry guys!
Indeed, I like the Excalibur book just as well but then again I've always liked most of the S&SS books so I'm not surprised.
Speaking of, I gotta call the comic guy and see if City of Brass is in, finally. |
| Penknight |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 22:27:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I have it and it's sitting right next to me. I've looked through it a few times because I have a FR solo game where the player is a now a deity and some of the Greek deities have been making alliances with him or teasing him.
As for the book it does have some nice info in it.
An even better book is Relics & Rituals: Excalibur. The knight class presented there is a better 3.5 knight in my opinion, and I think that it makes more sense if you are wanting to play a knight from Cormyr. Also, some of the prestige classes are pretty cool too. I've even toyed with running an historical campaign set during our own Crusades for my players, and have been giving the 2nd Edition book The Crusades a look over.
...
And I realize that I've totally went off topic. Sorry guys! |
| Kuje |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 20:40:13
I have it and it's sitting right next to me. I've looked through it a few times because I have a FR solo game where the player is a now a deity and some of the Greek deities have been making alliances with him or teasing him.
As for the book it does have some nice info in it. |
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