| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MojoGM |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 15:18:12
Hey all,
Long time lurker here. I need the help of some Cormyr scholars to shake up the Realms a bit.
Here is my train of thought:
Awhile ago I read about some story about the Royal Family of England and how there was a first child way back in the line that should have been the next to get the throne, and if you followed the line down it made some truck driver from Wales the true king.
Nothing ever happened with it (that I recall seeing) but it got me thinking:
What if in the past there was a first-born child that for some reason did not grow up with the family. Maybe he was thought dead, and raised by another noble family? It doesn't have to be true, just feasible. And there can be some written proof that pops up (again, whether it is genuine or a forgery is an open question).
Anyway, it just so happens that if you follow this revised line, the real king would be this noble who just so happens to be building support.
I can see all sorts of cool adventures centering around the documents themselves and the unrest and challenge to the throne.
At this point I'm still in the planning stages, but would like to start planting the seeds for this.
Thus, I come to you for help. What do you all know about the royal line? How far back can the anomaly occur, and what family do you think could fit the bill?
Any ideas would be appreciated! (because I'm not sure where to go with this)
Thanks!
~Chris (MojoGM)
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| DestroyYouAlot |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 14:13:28
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
At present state, I just don't see the Cormyreans caring enough to want to fight over who should be on the throne. I see them more trying to rebuild their own communities.
True, but that kind of conflict is rarely the result of the people's wishes, but rather the nobility's ambition. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 21:29:47
At present state, I just don't see the Cormyreans caring enough to want to fight over who should be on the throne. I see them more trying to rebuild their own communities. After the hell they've been through, I see it being that people either give up on the government altogether (in which case an outside power swoops in)... or they forge a new, common goal and take the kingdom down a new path. Cormyr will never be the same as a result (or at least, not without several generations of work). |
| DestroyYouAlot |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 20:12:13
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]Originally posted by George Krashos
The reference to Gondegal ending up in Ravenloft ...
-- George Krashos
It was also in the first Ravenloft boxed set, where Gondegal got a full write-up (albeit a short one).
Hmmm... How about, in that case, a Gondegal imposter? A man wishing Cormyr ill could stir up all kinds of trouble using that name - and who would really recognize the real one to say that the imposter isn't him? I may have to use this myself, now that I think of it. Perhaps even an independent minor bandit leader allied with the Shades... Or the Zhentarim... Or the *goes into DM trance*... |
| msatran |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 05:55:29
Well, why don't you just do this?
Cormyrian nobles are always disgruntled. Rather than raise a new king, bring back an OLD one.
Yeah, sure, an undead Cormyrian King would be a really annoying foe, but that's always amusing when the PC's think they've beaten the proxy guy, the REAL bad guy shows up. And are they prepared for undead? Heck no! |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 18:02:20
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
The Auantiver noble family (now extinct) had their seat in Battlerise, in eastern Cormyr, where their ruined castle 'Battlegate' still stands (as mentioned in VGtC).
They did indeed. I'll note for the record, however, that to my knowledge, the above-mentioned dates for their labyrinth (particularly the earliest ones) are largely conjecture, as they don't appear in any official sources.
Garen,
I was looking through back issues of 'Polyhedron' magazine, and found an article (by Eric Boyd) concerning Men of the Basilisk, who apparently have a major base in Battlegate. I don't remember the issue, but this article also has some useful information about Auantivers and their 'Sword Herald-made' labyrinth, and also lists those above-mentioned dates. |
| MojoGM |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 15:53:47
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
In my campaign a number of nobles had a secret organization called the Knights of Immeresk ... named after one of the sub-kingdoms that Cormyr eventualy absorbed. Their goal had long been the reestablishment of the kingdom of Immeresk, and this became a real possibility following the sacking of Old Cormyr North, the death of Azoun IV, the placing of an untested infant upon the throne, and the destruction of Tilverton.
This sounds interesting. Please tell us more! |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 16:37:07
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Just off the top, there is at LEAST one acknowledged male scion of the Obaskyr line presented in the Cormyr novel. (Brace Scatterhawk)
Another option would be for an unscrupulous Arcanist to lay hands on a enough physical substance (Hair, skin, flesh, etc) of one of the heirs to create a clone, much as Vangerdahast kept samples for just such an event. Then there was the ploy of Brantarra to take over the realm. (But that takes a whole novel to cover, and rather masterfully at that.)
Well met! Indeed Brace is one of apparently many such descendants of Azoun IV, though I think he is not an officially acknowledged heir. Alusair (knowing his fatherīs reputation) confronted him about this, and Brace admitted that many in his own family seemed to think him as "Azoun's son".
It certainly would be possible to create a clone, yet it would demand a certain amount of plotting to swap the original with the clone. I think it would be far more easier to try to use mind control-spells on a real one, though I am sure that Old Snoop has made sure that all "proven" descendants are, at least occasionally, monitored by the War Wizards.
If you are referring to those samples described in 'Cormyr: A Novel' (Damn, I said the 'N-word' ;) there are only samples of the ROYAL family, not their potential children/heirs (such as Brace).
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| Forge |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 00:20:52
Just off the top, there is at LEAST one acknowledged male scion of the Obaskyr line presented in the Cormyr novel. (Brace Scatterhawk)
Another option would be for an unscrupulous Arcanist to lay hands on a enough physical substance (Hair, skin, flesh, etc) of one of the heirs to create a clone, much as Vangerdahast kept samples for just such an event. Then there was the ploy of Brantarra to take over the realm. (But that takes a whole novel to cover, and rather masterfully at that.) |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 21:31:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
For those timeline references, which source were they taken from? A novel? Gaming Product?
I found a 'complete' timeline on a couple of webpages, and both seemed to contain those same references. Thus I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that this was either from an accessory that I donīt have, or perhaps posted by one of the Sages on some thread.
This one of the websites: http://www.o-love.net/realms/fr_time_11.html
The best timeline that I know of for the Realms is now hosted on this very site.
A Grand History of the Realms
Ah, thanks Wooly! I shall download it right away  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 17:20:10
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
For those timeline references, which source were they taken from? A novel? Gaming Product?
I found a 'complete' timeline on a couple of webpages, and both seemed to contain those same references. Thus I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that this was either from an accessory that I donīt have, or perhaps posted by one of the Sages on some thread.
This one of the websites: http://www.o-love.net/realms/fr_time_11.html
The best timeline that I know of for the Realms is now hosted on this very site.
A Grand History of the Realms |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 16:54:32
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'm really not allowed, for moral, ethical, personal and legal reasons. Or, as Ed would say, "NDA."
And before anyone starts speculating, no, this isn't a specific NDA. This is a general "I've talked with Ed about this and won't discuss it because I hope he gets to show it all to you later on, rather than giving you a neat little timeline in a few sentences now."
Ah, understood. Hopefully we will see this information in a *cough* Cormyr reg*cough* *cough* 
Or a novel, for that matter. Okay, I will stop speculating now  |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 16:26:20
I'm really not allowed, for moral, ethical, personal and legal reasons. Or, as Ed would say, "NDA."
And before anyone starts speculating, no, this isn't a specific NDA. This is a general "I've talked with Ed about this and won't discuss it because I hope he gets to show it all to you later on, rather than giving you a neat little timeline in a few sentences now." |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 13:43:58
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
The Auantiver noble family (now extinct) had their seat in Battlerise, in eastern Cormyr, where their ruined castle 'Battlegate' still stands (as mentioned in VGtC).
They did indeed. I'll note for the record, however, that to my knowledge, the above-mentioned dates for their labyrinth (particularly the earliest ones) are largely conjecture, as they don't appear in any official sources.
quote:
Any idea when the Witch Lords rose to power?
Yes.
Ah, please tell us, Garen 
During king Duarīs reign, eastern Cormyr was still largely unsettled, and yet unconquered by Cormyr. Either Cormyr hadnīt yet clashed with the Witch Lords, whose center of power was located around Wyvernwater (if I only remember it correctly), or the Witch Lords were an insignificant/hidden power at that time. So, I would guess that during 700-800 DR? |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 13:40:06
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
For those timeline references, which source were they taken from? A novel? Gaming Product?
I found a 'complete' timeline on a couple of webpages, and both seemed to contain those same references. Thus I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that this was either from an accessory that I donīt have, or perhaps posted by one of the Sages on some thread.
This one of the websites: http://www.o-love.net/realms/fr_time_11.html
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| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 12:30:36
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'll note for the record, however, that to my knowledge, the above-mentioned dates for their labyrinth (particularly the earliest ones) are largely conjecture, as they don't appear in any official sources.
Thanks Garen Thal. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 04:36:32
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
The Auantiver noble family (now extinct) had their seat in Battlerise, in eastern Cormyr, where their ruined castle 'Battlegate' still stands (as mentioned in VGtC).
They did indeed. I'll note for the record, however, that to my knowledge, the above-mentioned dates for their labyrinth (particularly the earliest ones) are largely conjecture, as they don't appear in any official sources.
quote:
Any idea when the Witch Lords rose to power?
Yes. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 30 May 2005 : 15:44:23
For those timeline references, which source were they taken from? A novel? Gaming Product? |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 21:27:43
Garen, I noticed these on the FR timeline:
640 DR (Year of the Fanged Beast): "The Sword Heralds of Cormyr create an extra-dimensional labyrinth for the amusement of the jaded young nobles of House Auantiver and stock it with all manner of monstrous creatures."
658 DR (Year of the Dangerous Game): "During this time, it becomes fashionable among the adventuresome scions of Cormyr's noble houses to run the gauntlet of beasts dwelling in the Sword Herald- created Auantiver Labyrinth."
662 DR (Year of the People's Mourning): "The heirs of the Cormyrean houses of Bleth, Crownsilver, and Truesilver die in the monster-filled interdimensional Auantiver Labyrinth."
1247 DR (Year of the Purple Basilisk): " The Company of Jade, an all-male band of adventuresome lordlings, stumble into the long- forgotten Auantiver Labyrinth while exploring the ruins of Battlegate Keep near the border of Cormyr and Sembia. They encounter a monstrous purple basilisk that kills all but a handful of the Company."
1276 DR (Year of the Crumbling Keep): "The Men of the Basilisk decide to open their ranks to any promising young noble or merchant lord who can survive the crucible of the extra-dimensional Auantiver Labyrinth and its fearsome basilisk guardian."
The Auantiver noble family (now extinct) had their seat in Battlerise, in eastern Cormyr, where their ruined castle 'Battlegate' still stands (as mentioned in VGtC).
Do you have any information about them? Did they relocate after 900DR to Battlerise? All the excerpts above seem to indicate that this "extra-dimensional labyrinth" was reached at Battlegate, which means that the Witch Lords could not have controlled eastern Cormyr at that time (600-700 DR)? Any idea when the Witch Lords rose to power?
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 21:22:55
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
And yes, I do know my Cormyr sources quite well. I've referenced and cross-referenced them all a hundred times.
Only a hundred?  |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 21:04:33
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
You may be thinking of Irongard (a small building in the Stonelands). Dungeon #18. You may be thinking of Greatgard, seat of the Greatgaunt noble family, but that's been part of Cormyr since the family's founding. Eastern Cormyr was largely unsettled before the fall of the Witch-Lords, and there weren't any castles to speak of.
No, not Irongard (I have that Dungeon issue). And not Greatgaunt, either. I think it was something like Jhynstalgard (?) or something like that - or maybe I've been dreaming? It may have been in Juniril, or nearby it.
It'd be nice to have more information about when the smaller settlements (villages/hamlets) in Cormyr were founded. I guess in eastern Cormyr this happened after 900DR when the Witch Lords were defeated.
quote:
And yes, I do know my Cormyr sources quite well. I've referenced and cross-referenced them all a hundred times.
Still, it is impressive  . I have poured through both 'Cormanthyr' and 'Cloak & Dagger', and yet cannot remember those references you mentioned. Which is probably due to my lack of proper attention to detail |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 19:16:04
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I think the place was -gard something... I have to read that article.
You may be thinking of Irongard (a small building in the Stonelands). Dungeon #18. You may be thinking of Greatgard, seat of the Greatgaunt noble family, but that's been part of Cormyr since the family's founding. Eastern Cormyr was largely unsettled before the fall of the Witch-Lords, and there weren't any castles to speak of.
And yes, I do know my Cormyr sources quite well. I've referenced and cross-referenced them all a hundred times. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 18:56:02
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Hullack Hall. Dragon #281.
I think the place was -gard something... I have to read that article.
quote:
I'm afraid I have no information at all to share on this matter.
Hopefully there will be a Cormyr accessory which will shed some light on this issue. The Heralds are now part of folk lore in Cormyr, and apparently at least Yimluth (according to VGtC) is still active (and possibly a demigod/rank 0 deity). Certainly some of the other Heralds are still around, lurking in the background, and since the goals of these two organisation seem very similar, I assume there have been conflicts between them?
[quote]According to Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, the Sword Heralds started operating circa 620DR. In Cloak and Dagger, Khelben Arunson is said to have worked with this elusive group in or around 1070DR. Any other information is, at this point, mostly conjecture.
Thank you, Garen! This information is appreciated, and you really know your accessories to retrieve that information so quickly
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| Garen Thal |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 18:19:03
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
One of Edīs Dragon articles mentioned at least one keep in eastern Cormyr (near Wheloon?) that was conquered and swallowed up by Cormyr. I donīt have the Dragon, so I cannot be sure.
Hullack Hall. Dragon #281.quote:
Thank thee in advance, Garen! If you have any information about the Mages Regal (in addition to what little was revealed in FRCS), and their relation to Sword Heralds, please tell us
I'm afraid I have no information at all to share on this matter.quote:
Also, if you happen to know when the Sword Heralds were founded, and when they went into "hiding", Iīd be very grateful! (VGtC only mentions that they were active "hundreds of years ago")
According to Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, the Sword Heralds started operating circa 620DR. In Cloak and Dagger, Khelben Arunson is said to have worked with this elusive group in or around 1070DR. Any other information is, at this point, mostly conjecture. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 18:03:46
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Immeresk isn't canon. As for information on the small kingdoms, I'll see what I can do...
One of Edīs Dragon articles mentioned at least one keep in eastern Cormyr (near Wheloon?) that was conquered and swallowed up by Cormyr. I donīt have the Dragon, so I cannot be sure.
Thank thee in advance, Garen! If you have any information about the Mages Regal (in addition to what little was revealed in FRCS), and their relation to Sword Heralds, please tell us
Also, if you happen to know when the Sword Heralds were founded, and when they went into "hiding", Iīd be very grateful! (VGtC only mentions that they were active "hundreds of years ago") |
| Beowulf |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 06:15:10
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Is Immeresk part of "canon" Realmslore, or did you make it up?
I'm not sure if it's part of canon or not. Garen Thal is probably right.
To boot, someone else, over on the Realms-L list, made it up. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 03:31:56
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
In my campaign a number of nobles had a secret organization called the Knights of Immeresk ... named after one of the sub-kingdoms that Cormyr eventualy absorbed. Their goal had long been the reestablishment of the kingdom of Immeresk, and this became a real possibility following the sacking of Old Cormyr North, the death of Azoun IV, the placing of an untested infant upon the throne, and the destruction of Tilverton.
I wish we would have more information about these small kingdoms (such as Esparin) and the other "independent holds" that were eventually swallowed up by Cormyr... Is Immeresk part of "canon" Realmslore, or did you make it up?
Immeresk isn't canon. As for information on the small kingdoms, I'll see what I can do... |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:07:13
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
In my campaign a number of nobles had a secret organization called the Knights of Immeresk ... named after one of the sub-kingdoms that Cormyr eventualy absorbed. Their goal had long been the reestablishment of the kingdom of Immeresk, and this became a real possibility following the sacking of Old Cormyr North, the death of Azoun IV, the placing of an untested infant upon the throne, and the destruction of Tilverton.
I wish we would have more information about these small kingdoms (such as Esparin) and the other "independent holds" that were eventually swallowed up by Cormyr... Is Immeresk part of "canon" Realmslore, or did you make it up? |
| Beowulf |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 15:08:55
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I think the most ambitious (and disloyal) noble families would each try to produce their own "legal heir" to the throne - and split into cabals - in case a new contestant to the throne would appear.
I think that the possibility for a civil war in Cormyr is very real.
In my campaign a number of nobles had a secret organization called the Knights of Immeresk ... named after one of the sub-kingdoms that Cormyr eventualy absorbed. Their goal had long been the reestablishment of the kingdom of Immeresk, and this became a real possibility following the sacking of Old Cormyr North, the death of Azoun IV, the placing of an untested infant upon the throne, and the destruction of Tilverton.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 18 May 2005 : 03:37:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The reference to Gondegal ending up in Ravenloft is actually a small snippet in FR13 Anauroch accessory. I recall Ed saying once that TSR asked him for a list of NPCs to do some 'stuff with' and he gave it to them and included Gondegal. Next thing he heard, Gondegal was in Ravenloft. IIRC, the sentence in FR13 wasn't written by Ed but added in after his draft submission.
-- George Krashos
It was also in the first Ravenloft boxed set, where Gondegal got a full write-up (albeit a short one).
And still, in the 3e updates, we see that Gondegal has retained his place in Ravenloft but is now instead simply referred to as "the Lost King". Any mention to his time before Ravenloft refers to a world known for a powerful "forest kingdom".
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 May 2005 : 02:50:42
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The reference to Gondegal ending up in Ravenloft is actually a small snippet in FR13 Anauroch accessory. I recall Ed saying once that TSR asked him for a list of NPCs to do some 'stuff with' and he gave it to them and included Gondegal. Next thing he heard, Gondegal was in Ravenloft. IIRC, the sentence in FR13 wasn't written by Ed but added in after his draft submission.
-- George Krashos
It was also in the first Ravenloft boxed set, where Gondegal got a full write-up (albeit a short one). |
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