| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 21:44:25
So we know there is more to Manshoon than we have been told so far.
We have also heard that the Shoon in his name is not a coincidence.
I've read Manshoon's story several times and it seems a bit too fantastical to be true. He was a warrior that upon finding a spell book suddenly decided to become a mage and not only that he excelled at it. Also despite being only young his cunning and ability for double dealing was already far in excess of the Lord of Zhentil Keep.
Even better despite being a thoroughly evil man whose friends are also evil he has managed to inspire utter devotion and loyalty in people right from the start (Lord Chess).
So I'm thinking that Manshoon actually is a lot older than 1219 DR and he is doing a Khelben. i.e. he is actually a really ancient being that replaces his descendants and lives his life in their place. Although unlike Khelben he probably isn't quite so benevolent and lets them live on another plane, he probably just kills them.
So Manshoon who was actually Manshoon was born in 1200's DR and left with his brother on their quest but at some point the ancient Manshoon killed the young Manshoon and then took over his life before returning to Zhentil Keep.
If that's true Manshoon could be one of the ancient Shoon's. I always found it odd that despite some of them being amazing wizards we only have one demi lich and one attempted to be a lich (but failed). According to lore the entire Shoon royal family was slain in Shoonach by the army of Strohm's son.
Maybe Amahl Shoon I didn't actually fail becoming a lich he just got it wrong and turned his descendants into his phylactery or something like that, allowing him to take possession of a weak willed body and dominate it until death whereupon he has to jump to his next descendent.
Maybe that's why as Manshoon he created a bunch of clones, because there were no more descendents. |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 16:35:05
Oh well i guess it could be as simple as he drank about 10 of them and unaged back to his early twenties. Damn |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 16:30:43
Longevity Potions and Elixirs of Youth do restore years to you. If you are older, they literally make you younger. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Apr 2014 : 15:13:33
Just came across this quote in Cloak and Dagger for 1370 DR
quote:
Hunters within the Hullack Forest of Cormyr discover a strange sight in a clearing between Knightswood and Dhedluk, the turf has been blasted away down to the bedrock, and around the edges of the crater are two twisted and broken skeletons, their skulls mysteriously missing. The crater is lopsided due to a dead magic zone on its eastern quadrant, and therein lies the torso of a young, handsome, dark haired man, his skeletal legs and hips lying within the blast zone. By month’s end, the Royal Mage, Vangerdahast, identifies the young man as a clone of Manshoon, but notes he is far younger than he has ever seen the black robed mage himself.
Now piecing together the story of Manshoon at the age of 29 in 1258 he was sent on a quest with his brother and rival into the big wide world. At that time he was not a mage but during an encounter with Harpers he acquired a wand (which he traded to have his hand regenerated) and a spell book which resolved him to learn magic.
In 1261 he returns to Zhentil Keep having learned some magic and with a lot of luck (according to the Ruins of Zhentil Keep) he manages to slay Ulsan and become Lord.
Now stasis clone is a level 9 spell, i cant remember at what level you learn level 9 spells but i would imagine it is after attaining the 15th level of experience as a wizard.
Now in 1367 Manshoon is listed as a 19th level wizard and in 1356 he is only a 16th level wizard.
So the question is at what age would you still be considered a young man. I would consider 40 middle aged but that is by todays standards where living into the 80's is the norm.
So a young man might only be into the early 30's which by that time Manshoon should only have been as high as a 8th or 9th level wizard tops and so could not have cast the stasis clone spell (let alone developed it which is one of the claims).
The point i'm getting at is that Manshoon's story has to be different than the one we were told in order for this young Manshoon clone to exist.
Even as head of the Zhentarim with access to longevity potions he would likely be approaching middle age and not a young man. I can't remember what longevity potions do but i dont think they restore youth to you, merely prolong what life you have left (i.e. keep you at the current age for longer by delaying aging).
So again i propose that Manshoon is not actually Manshoon at all, but someone that replaced him at some point during his life (probably while he was off on his quest at the age of 29). |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 17 Mar 2014 : 11:28:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
At least they didn't call him Shunior. 
Damn it Wooly you made me burst out laughing in public.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 18:20:55
Hmmmphhh... to each his own. I think its golden.
|
| Eltheron |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 14:11:55
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
At least they didn't call him Shunior.
ROFL! Don't do that when I'm drinking coffee.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 03:06:08
At least they didn't call him Shunior. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 01:04:33
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I had a theory once (over on the WotC boards, I think) that got shot-down: That originally he was like 6th or 7th son of a Shoon Emperor, who followed his father around, dressed like him, etc (mini-me style), and people referred to him as "The Boy Shoon". Although he was proud of the nickname, they were mocking him, knowing he would never make it to the throne. Then when the entire Imperial family was killed (this happened several times - take your pick), some retainers escaped with the child into the wilderness. Not out of any sort of loyalty, but rather, they thought it would be a good idea to have their own heir to the throne around, under their thumb. So everyone else thought the entire family perished, and they kept him hidden away for several years... always mocking him and calling him, "The Boy, Shoon". They did, however, train him to fight, and how to lead, and to stay hidden and make clandestine plans...
And on his 16th birthday he walked away from the burning tower, blood splattered, and said, "NO... from this day forth, they will know the MAN, Shoon!"
And that was it. some folks didn't like it, but whatever.
LOL! Probably because that has the same depth as a Spiderman villain origin story on that really old Electric Company TV show.
You stole my candy sucker when I was five, so I became the CANDY STRIPER! RAAARRR!!!
PS: Please don't take offense. I just thought this was very silly. It's very hard seeing Manshoon saying anything like this - even as an angry teenager.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 23:35:21
BUT, If you recall... Lord Chess fooled them all and was really a servant of Mystra. We saw that at the very end of the Avatar series.
I don't think Manshoon is as great as HE thinks he is. That could be because he is a mere shadow of the man he once was, before all the cloning started to break-down his psyche.
For all we know, it could be a Doctor Doom scenario, and not just because of the iron mask. Remember how we had a DD for the longest time, and everyone thought it was the real Doom, and it turned out Doom was really away for years (in other dimensions, space, etc), and that was really his clone he left in his place? Even the clone didn't know it was just a clone. In fact, IIRC, it was a double-double fake-out. The 'real' Doom was trying to get his kingdom back from the clone, and in the end you find out the 'real' one was just a robot, and the real, real one was away in space... or something.
So maybe someday the 'real' Manshoon will return, and destroy all these 'lesser Manshoons'.
I had a theory once (over on the WotC boards, I think) that got shot-down: That originally he was like 6th or 7th son of a Shoon Emperor, who followed his father around, dressed like him, etc (mini-me style), and people referred to him as "The Boy Shoon". Although he was proud of the nickname, they were mocking him, knowing he would never make it to the throne. Then when the entire Imperial family was killed (this happened several times - take your pick), some retainers escaped with the child into the wilderness. Not out of any sort of loyalty, but rather, they thought it would be a good idea to have their own heir to the throne around, under their thumb. So everyone else thought the entire family perished, and they kept him hidden away for several years... always mocking him and calling him, "The Boy, Shoon". They did, however, train him to fight, and how to lead, and to stay hidden and make clandestine plans...
And on his 16th birthday he walked away from the burning tower, blood splattered, and said, "NO... from this day forth, they will know the MAN, Shoon!"
And that was it. some folks didn't like it, but whatever. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 22:37:26
I don‘t know a lot about Lord Chess, beyond his 2E stat summary ... F3, W3, P3, T3, etc ... he obviously must have incredible ability scores to meet all those dual-classing reqs, but somehow the descriptor makes him seem like a spoiled dabbler and dilettante who isn‘t capable of the focus or disciple to finish whatever he starts. The Manshoon-Chess stories and interactions seem to reinforce my impression that Lord Chess is a bit of a naive patsy whose fate is to serve as nothing more than Manshoon‘s political puppet-appendage. |
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