| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 10:35:26
I've been a huge fan of the Faiths & Avatars format created by Julia Martin and Eric Boyd, and I always wanted a fourth book to be published, companion to Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Since there's no chance now of seeing an official one, I decided to create my own, updating the deities from DMGR4 Monster Mythology, as well as some others. I write these from the point of view of 2nd Edition, incorporating primarily only that canon, and focusing on the whole 2e multiverse, so where possible, I mention canon from all 2nd Edition settings. I post the main entries on my blog, and then will update this thread.
If you’ve been enjoying these entries, please consider supporting the project on Patreon or Ko-Fi:
https://www.patreon.com/MonsterMythology
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Bugbear (and Other) Pantheon:
Grankhul the Hunter: http://bit.ly/1TTie59
Hruggek the Decapitator: http://bit.ly/1XX3cus
Meriadar the Patient One: http://bit.ly/1RTjyNC
Skiggaret the Deranged One: http://bit.ly/1X3bgdU
Stalker, the Hateful Shadow: http://bit.ly/1O7VbB3
Goblin Pantheon:
Bargrivyek the Peacekeeper: http://bit.ly/1U3efkG
Khugorbaeyag the Overseer: http://bit.ly/24ne4Cb
Maglubiyet the Mighty One: http://bit.ly/1TNW2UB
Nomog-Geaya the General: http://bit.ly/1ss21aV
Kobold and Urd Pantheon:
Dakarnok the Raider: http://bit.ly/1UBjZAN
Gaknulak the Trapmaker: http://bit.ly/1TTjqVU
Kuraulyek the Horned Thief: http://bit.ly/1PaE0de
Kurtulmak the Cunning: http://bit.ly/1PsgPAp
Orcish Pantheon:
Bahgtru the Leg-Breaker: http://bit.ly/1UmIK0I
Gruumsh One-Eye: http://bit.ly/1VCla5n
Ilneval the Horde Leader: http://bit.ly/24nfwV7
Luthic the Cave Mother: http://bit.ly/1UBjd6N
Shargaas the Night Lord: http://bit.ly/1sTJO5O
Yurtrus White-Hands: http://bit.ly/25FbI7s
The Ordning:
Annam the All-Father: http://bit.ly/1U0cJOR
Diancastra, the Wanton Wanderer: http://bit.ly/1PaEzUo
Grolantor the Steading Lord: http://bit.ly/1U3fGQ5
Grond Peaksmasher: http://bit.ly/24nggt6
Hiatea the Huntress: http://bit.ly/1XpIe9p
Iallanis the Tender One: http://bit.ly/1X3cvd4
Karontor the Deformed One: http://bit.ly/1O7VU5v
Memnor the Deceiver: http://bit.ly/1UBjLcS
Skoreaus Stonebones, the Living Rock: http://bit.ly/1UBjLcS
Stronmaus the Storm Lord: http://bit.ly/289ALyn
Surtr the Black: http://bit.ly/289ABqP
Thrym, the King of Ice: http://bit.ly/25Corob
Gnoll Pantheon:
Gorellik the Loner: http://bit.ly/1UBjXZy
Refnara the Moon-Biter: http://bit.ly/1PspJ11
Yeenoghu the Demon Prince of Gnolls: http://bit.ly/1UBk87a
Ogre Pantheon:
Mirklak the Orcslayer: http://bit.ly/1VCpPnK
Vaprak the Destroyer: http://bit.ly/1TTm1zk
Ysshara the Lorekeeper: http://bit.ly/1t7fJk7
Interlopers on the Giant Pantheon:
Baphomet, Demon Lord of Minotaurs: http://bit.ly/1U3lSrf
Kostchtchie, the Demon Prince of Wrath: http://bit.ly/1XpQeHa
Draconic Pantheon (Io's Children):
Aasterinian, the Messenger of Io: http://bit.ly/1XpQuWH
Arcanic the Learned: http://bit.ly/1WzDlK9
Astilabor the Hoardmistress: http://bit.ly/1PaJGDQ
Bahamut the Platinum Dragon: http://bit.ly/2gcEmW6
Chronepsis the Death Dragon: http://bit.ly/1O7Yx7l
Elemtia the Tempest: http://bit.ly/1U3m1uJ
Faluzure the Night Dragon: http://bit.ly/1ZcdvtA
Garyx the Firelord: http://bit.ly/1X3g6In
Hlal the Jester: http://bit.ly/2aI5MoG
Io the Ninefold Dragon: http://bit.ly/2iuNgmv
Kalzareinad, The Keeper of Dark Wonders: http://bit.ly/1VCqHc5
Kereska Wonderbringer: http://bit.ly/2fbhbMv
Lendys the Balancer: http://bit.ly/1U3nzos
Rais, The Cogitative One: http://bit.ly/20Y18Sg
Sardior the Ruby Dragon: http://bit.ly/2bMvFiS
Tamara the Merciful: http://bit.ly/2dMW2KH
Task the Wrester: http://bit.ly/29aUTaK
Tiamat the Chromatic Dragon: http://bit.ly/22DC4Bx
Zorquan the High One: http://bit.ly/1UjK9W9
Aerial Deities:
Jazirian the Eternal Serpent: http://bit.ly/1UmSlo6
Koriel the Vigilant: http://bit.ly/2kszfGg
Stillsong the Singing Sphere: http://bit.ly/2pAAh5J
Aquatic Deities:
Anguileusis the Abiding One: http://bit.ly/2lcZsdz
Blibdoolpoolp the Sea Mother: http://bit.ly/2tK3Pzc
Demogorgon, the Prince of Demons: http://bit.ly/2V7sVn3
Eadro the Deliverer: http://bit.ly/Eadro
Ilxendren the Demonray: http://bit.ly/2svK8MH
Panzuriel the Enslaver: http://bit.ly/2CJf7IQ
Persana, Guardian of the Deep: http://bit.ly/2OXzuFW
Sekolah the Great Shark: http://bit.ly/2iyzGR3
Surminare the Selkie Queen: http://bit.ly/2nsA7cU
Trishina the Waverider: http://bit.ly/1t7h0rg
Water Lion the Sharkslayer: http://bit.ly/2x7BNwt
Avian Deities:
Krocaa the Crimsonfeather: http://bit.ly/2BL3ddK
Quorlinn the Filcher: http://bit.ly/2iTi41K
Remnis, the Great Lord of the Eagles: http://bit.ly/2J4orfd
Syranita, Mistress of the Aarakocra: http://bit.ly/2qFphWC
Reptilian and Amphibian Deities:
Laogzed the Devourer: http://bit.ly/2vo4pox
Merrshaulk the Serpent Lord: http://bit.ly/Merrshaulk
Parrafaire the Naga Prince: http://bit.ly/2epLsHv
Ramenos the Great Frog: http://bit.ly/1sTUIsi
Semuanya the Survivor: http://bit.ly/2SzBYfM
Sess'innek the Emperor Lizard: http://bit.ly/2EuSHcW
Shekinester the Three-Faced Queen: http://bit.ly/Shekinester
Centaur Pantheon:
Brilros the Battle Stallion: http://bit.ly/2XmYvhK
Chitza-Atlan, the Guardian of the Gateway to the Underworld: http://bit.ly/2NCr5HT
Fanthros Storm-Hooves: http://bit.ly/2KKZH9m
Kheiron the Educator: http://bit.ly/35T1VNf
Linroth Fleet-Hoof: http://bit.ly/2PvXvUv
Naharra the Mother-Mare: http://bit.ly/32kSzIc
Skerrit the Hoofed Lord: http://bit.ly/1t7gQQH
Lycanthrope Pantheon:
Balador the Master of Mead: http://bit.ly/2MMJ7qp
Daragor the Wolflord: http://bit.ly/2GIbUL7
Eshebala the Vixen Queen: http://bit.ly/2LoZOLw
Ferrix the Prowler: http://bit.ly/2N5fGSg
Squerrik the Ratlord: http://bit.ly/24nmVDV
Seelie Court:
Caoimhin the Kindly: http://bit.ly/2obZk0g
Damh the Horned Beast: http://bit.ly/2xy2LQx
Eachthighern the Unicorn Lord: https://bit.ly/33ja8M2
Emmantiensien the Treant-King: https://bit.ly/2wKVVKH
Fionnghuala the Mistress of Swans: http://bit.ly/20Y1bNS
Nathair Sgiathach the Prankster: http://bit.ly/2ZOPwYY
Oberon the Faerie King: https://bit.ly/3wiU1L7
Squelaiche the Court Jester: https://bit.ly/3gkuybw
Tapann the Undying: https://bit.ly/3zmugeL
Titania the Faerie Queen: https://bit.ly/3jzLU8W
Verenestra the Oak Princess: http://bit.ly/2L8jTGz
Unseelie Court
The Queen of Air and Darkness: https://bit.ly/3onJXPp
Beholder Pantheon:
Great Mother, the Hive Spawner: http://bit.ly/2UgrWn2
Gzemnid the Gas Giant: http://bit.ly/2MjGnS1
Deities “missing” from Demihuman Deities:
Alathrien Druanna, the Rune Mistress: https://bit.ly/34BKFNK
Araleth Letheranil the Prince of Stars: https://bit.ly/3lxhFxY
Cador the Shadow Knife: https://bit.ly/3qhraUh
Darahl Firecloak the Even-Tempered: https://bit.ly/3R6tXOA
Diinkarazan, the Mad God: https://bit.ly/3pivLWG
Diirinka the Betrayer: http://bit.ly/387V7Mo
Kavor the Lord of Gravity: http://bit.ly/3IAVHGR
Keptolo the Eager Consort: https://bit.ly/3KDxMXE
Kirith Sotheril the Magess: https://bit.ly/3HxwKcP
Mythrien Sarath, the Watcher over Mythals: https://bit.ly/3NterII
Naralis Analor, the Watcher of Souls: http://bit.ly/3r5IAmR
Nebelun the Meddler: http://bit.ly/1TO1req
Rellavar Danuvien, the Frost Sprite King: https://bit.ly/3yxZo92
Tarsellis Meunniduin the Lord of the Mountains: https://bit.ly/3gWWkR0
Tethrin Veraldé the Shining One: http://bit.ly/2MjGnS1
Zinzerena the Hunted: https://bit.ly/49yWDYu
Myconid Pantheon:
Psilofyr the Spore Lord: https://bit.ly/2Dnsl0L
Illithid Pantheon:
Ilsensine, the Great Brain: https://bit.ly/3UprrVi
Maanzecorian the Philosoflayer: https://bit.ly/4dsptuH
Undead Deities:
Kanchelsis the Lord of Vampires: https://bit.ly/3fs3n37
Mellifleur the Lich-Lord: https://bit.ly/34oq2I0
Orcus, the Demon Prince of Undeath: https://bit.ly/42n1tU5
Elemental Deities
Ben-hadar, the Prince of Good Water: https://bit.ly/48WXHVR
Chan, the Princess of Good Air: https://bit.ly/44NypqR
Cryonax the Prince of Evil Ice: https://bit.ly/3uKZdr9
The Elder Elemental God
Ogremoch, the Prince of Evil Earth: http://bit.ly/3vyfL6G
Olhydra the Princess of Evil Water: https://bit.ly/3cSv2ZN
Sunnis, the Princess of Good Earth: https://bit.ly/4coyfKn
Yan-C-Bin, the Prince of Evil Air: https://bit.ly/3WmIjfC
Zaaman Rul, the Prince of Good Fire: https://bit.ly/3sevPMD
Miscellaneous Dark Deities:
Anthraxus the Decayed: https://bit.ly/4fvA4an
Cegilune the Hag Goddess: https://bit.ly/457mi7y
The Dark God at the End of All Things: https://bit.ly/48EtOZB
Juiblex the Faceless Lord: https://bit.ly/3LALnP9
Piscaethces the Blood Queen: https://bit.ly/3Z0XY5U
Shami-Amourae, the Demon Princess of Eros: https://bit.ly/3DuJl14
Neogi Pantheon
Kil’lix the Ambitious: http://bit.ly/3td5z0Q
Kr’tx the Flaming Master: https://bit.ly/3jVvjsZ
P'kk the Dominator: https://bit.ly/3EO5R3t
Thrig’ki the Rapacious: https://bit.ly/2QCBolt
T’zen’kil the Lasher: https://bit.ly/3fAXYEn
Insectoid and Arthropod Deities
Klikral, the Master of the Mound: https://bit.ly/443SxVF |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Nov 2024 : 18:15:56
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yep, you're already thinking along lines that I was with linking their gods to the seelie court. That being said, I'd also link them to the norse pantheon.
You know, one thing that occurs to me, regarding the tree goddess, what if she were RUMORED to be an almagam goddess... by that I mean a tripartite goddess who is created by other goddesses combining power. You could take Seelie goddess Verenestra-the goddess of dryads, Idun of the Norse Pantheon, and maybe Sheela Peryroyl of the halfling pantheon. Maybe it was some one time thing, and so now there's some aspect of themselves that still exists of all 3 combined, and it was this aspect that was responsible for awakening the squirrels that became the first kercpa.
My issue with that basically boils down to my desire to keep the various racial gods for their own races. I'd want Kercpa to have their own deities, rather than be an "also-worshipped-by" kinda thing. Maybe if another deity had a strong squirrel connection, I could see it, I guess. But I would want the squirrel tree-goddess to represent home and food and none of those goddesses represent that.
Jeff
good point. I was looking for making "allies", but that can be done other ways. It might make better stories if the squirrel god has periodically aided "nature goddesses" of these pantheons, and thus the people's that worship them have "good relations" with kercpa. For instance, someone was trying to steal apples from Idun grove of golden apples and Rititisk showed up to run them off. Maybe Sheela Peryroyl found herself in trouble (being chased by Daragor the werewolf god) and Rititisk enticed him to chase him by hurling abuse in his direction so that she could escape. Maybe Rititisk was responsible for rescuing the seeds of Verenestra and planting them across the planes, allowing the daughters of the dryad goddess to escape some evil god that sought to turn them into his wives.
|
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 03 Nov 2024 : 18:20:31
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yep, you're already thinking along lines that I was with linking their gods to the seelie court. That being said, I'd also link them to the norse pantheon.
You know, one thing that occurs to me, regarding the tree goddess, what if she were RUMORED to be an almagam goddess... by that I mean a tripartite goddess who is created by other goddesses combining power. You could take Seelie goddess Verenestra-the goddess of dryads, Idun of the Norse Pantheon, and maybe Sheela Peryroyl of the halfling pantheon. Maybe it was some one time thing, and so now there's some aspect of themselves that still exists of all 3 combined, and it was this aspect that was responsible for awakening the squirrels that became the first kercpa.
My issue with that basically boils down to my desire to keep the various racial gods for their own races. I'd want Kercpa to have their own deities, rather than be an "also-worshipped-by" kinda thing. Maybe if another deity had a strong squirrel connection, I could see it, I guess. But I would want the squirrel tree-goddess to represent home and food and none of those goddesses represent that.
Jeff |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 03 Nov 2024 : 18:05:53
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I like this A LOT!
In my never-to-complete quest for nurturing Realmslore about music… I’ve tinkered with several unique ways to give Melira more play in the setting. It’s been fun working with what has been published for her in the past and inventing new stuff that gives her a more Realms-centric focus.
Thank you! She was a lot of fun to write up and I really like where I ended up with her as being seen by some half-elves as a half-elven deity. :)
Jeff |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Nov 2024 : 00:53:41
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
By the way, just if you want some input... if you do Kercpa gods, recommend worshipping not just a tree goddess, but a hero god who is a kercpa.
Yeah, I definitely had considered making Rititisk into a demigod. Give them a little more flexibility. I'd also make their worship part of the Outer Circle of the Seelie Court, so that the Seelie Court powers would be there to fill out their full religious tapesty.
I may have to look into that 3e evil squirrelfolk race; having them be a corruption by the Queen of Air and Darkness could be interesting. This is the first I've heard of them, so I dunno how well this initial idea would work, though.
Jeff
Yep, you're already thinking along lines that I was with linking their gods to the seelie court. That being said, I'd also link them to the norse pantheon.
You know, one thing that occurs to me, regarding the tree goddess, what if she were RUMORED to be an almagam goddess... by that I mean a tripartite goddess who is created by other goddesses combining power. You could take Seelie goddess Verenestra-the goddess of dryads, Idun of the Norse Pantheon, and maybe Sheela Peryroyl of the halfling pantheon. Maybe it was some one time thing, and so now there's some aspect of themselves that still exists of all 3 combined, and it was this aspect that was responsible for awakening the squirrels that became the first kercpa. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Nov 2024 : 23:46:05
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Melira Taralen the Songstress: https://bit.ly/48uPh8I
The last of the elven deities published in Dragon #155 and updated in Dragon #236 is Melira Taralen, goddess of musical creation and musicians. Dragon #236 also described Melira as patron to elven minstrels (the kit from PHBR07 Complete Bard’s Handbook) and half-elven bards, which gave me an opportunity to create a sect of her belief that holds her as a true half-elven deity.
Jeff
I like this A LOT!
In my never-to-complete quest for nurturing Realmslore about music… I’ve tinkered with several unique ways to give Melira more play in the setting. It’s been fun working with what has been published for her in the past and inventing new stuff that gives her a more Realms-centric focus. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 01 Nov 2024 : 18:00:58
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
By the way, just if you want some input... if you do Kercpa gods, recommend worshipping not just a tree goddess, but a hero god who is a kercpa.
Yeah, I definitely had considered making Rititisk into a demigod. Give them a little more flexibility. I'd also make their worship part of the Outer Circle of the Seelie Court, so that the Seelie Court powers would be there to fill out their full religious tapesty.
I may have to look into that 3e evil squirrelfolk race; having them be a corruption by the Queen of Air and Darkness could be interesting. This is the first I've heard of them, so I dunno how well this initial idea would work, though.
Jeff |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 01 Nov 2024 : 17:56:51
Melira Taralen the Songstress: https://bit.ly/48uPh8I
The last of the elven deities published in Dragon #155 and updated in Dragon #236 is Melira Taralen, goddess of musical creation and musicians. Dragon #236 also described Melira as patron to elven minstrels (the kit from PHBR07 Complete Bard’s Handbook) and half-elven bards, which gave me an opportunity to create a sect of her belief that holds her as a true half-elven deity.
Jeff |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Oct 2024 : 01:12:33
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You had me at Kercpa.
:D
By the way, just if you want some input... if you do Kercpa gods, recommend worshipping not just a tree goddess, but a hero god who is a kercpa.
There's also an "evil" race of squirrel folk in 3.5e, and it would be interesting to have them be a corruption of kercpa. They were called the skiurid, and they were associated with shadow and cold. Could easily see it that the Queen of Air and Darkness may have corrupted them, but it could also be that Nidhogg the "serpent" in Niflheim (the land of the dead) may also have been involved. There were in Monster manual 4 in 3e era.
From the original article, for a kercpa god .... and of course, the norse pantheon has "Ratatosk" the squirrel who transports messages between nidhogg gnawing on the roots of yggdrasil and the eagle at its top. Picturing that Ratatosk and Rititisk are likely similar beings, though it could be something like Rititisk is a child of Ratatosk.
Faced with ethical dilemma, kercpas seek precedent in the fables of Rititisk the Clever — the mythical patriarch of the race — and try to emulate his example. Besides being entertaining stories of adventure in their own right — tales of Rititisk thwarting monstrous evil spiders, outwitting oafish giants (humans), questing to the ends of the earth for enchanted ever-striking arrows and the like — the fables contain lessons to guide the kercpas through all as of life. They are essential to every young kercpa’s education.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Oct 2024 : 02:47:41
I, too, am a fan of kercpa. Something about those little guys really appeals to me.
|
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 09 Oct 2024 : 21:36:10
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You had me at Kercpa.
:D |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Oct 2024 : 21:34:37
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Iahn Qoyllor
Hi Jeff - what's next once you complete this mammoth project considering you're almost done? Any chance you can be tempted to do some of the ancient human pantheons - Sumerian, Babylonian, Aztec etc please?
I'm not sure at this point. I do want to address the human pantheons, but I also want to create some pantheons for races that sorely lack them (much like what I did with the Grav). Hurwaeti, Loxo, Grommams, Dracons, etc., as well as races that definitely have deities but no real details, such as Grippli, Grung, and Kercpa. We'll see! :D
Jeff
You had me at Kercpa. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 09 Oct 2024 : 18:15:04
quote:
Originally posted by Iahn Qoyllor
Hi Jeff - what's next once you complete this mammoth project considering you're almost done? Any chance you can be tempted to do some of the ancient human pantheons - Sumerian, Babylonian, Aztec etc please?
I'm not sure at this point. I do want to address the human pantheons, but I also want to create some pantheons for races that sorely lack them (much like what I did with the Grav). Hurwaeti, Loxo, Grommams, Dracons, etc., as well as races that definitely have deities but no real details, such as Grippli, Grung, and Kercpa. We'll see! :D
Jeff |
| Iahn Qoyllor |
Posted - 09 Oct 2024 : 08:42:11
Hi Jeff - what's next once you complete this mammoth project considering you're almost done? Any chance you can be tempted to do some of the ancient human pantheons - Sumerian, Babylonian, Aztec etc please? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 18:57:58
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Jeff, just curious, the part where you talk about HOW he ascended (i.e. finding Ilsensine, asking him a question, etc..)... is that canon anywhere? If not, I just really want to tell you... I like that idea. Good work.
Thanks! It was basically inspired by the Diirinka and Diinkarazan origin, and it seemed to fit as a potential origin for a philosophical/exploration god. :D
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and just to put some spin on an idea... since he was supposedly "killed" by Tenebrous with some magic word (forget the term used), and since both Tenebrous and Orcus both exist now (Orcus is free and Tenebrous is a vestige)... what if there's something similar going on with Maanzecorian. By that I mean, what if his church now also includes binders that bind an "aspect" of Maanzecorian that's still entrapped in the place where Vestiges go. Maybe the returned Maanzecorian is missing SOME of his knowledge and its held by his own vestige. Maybe there are "cleric/binders" who multiclass. Finally, maybe the vestige of Maanzecorian refuses to bind with anyone who binds with Tenebrous. I know it would be a bit confusing as hell, but its got the basis of a good story I think.
Going with this idea, whenever a binder "binds" the VESTIGE of Maanzecorian (note, should come up with another name.... maybe IT is called the Philosoflayer), it should appear within the circle, rise up appearing as a great illithid, surround the head of the binder with its own tentacles... and then disappear, like its entered their brain.
I don't really know much about vestiges and the like, it's not something that was in 2e so I haven't given it any real consideration. I'd much rather Maanzecorian be alive as he was than there be any other sort of situation. I wanted to leave it open for individual DMs to do what they wanted (including having another deity masquerade as him), but for my campaign, it's "Somehow, Maanzecorian returned." ;)
I see Tenebrous as just Orcus's name while his name was erased, and he is now an actual undead god, which basically doesn't mean anything within the rules.
Jeff
So, I get that you may want to keep it simple, and that's cool. That being said, presenting an idea that can build on what you are talking about for those that may use newer rulesets. For that matter, "binders" in 5e don't so much exist, but warlocks are very similar to binders... and having Maanzecorian as a "vestige" that works like a warlock patron would also work. I actually have written up a version of warlock that functions somewhat like a binder in the early days of 5e as well.
Thinking more on this idea though from a story standpoint.. the "returned" version of Maanzecorian as a god may have ZERO knowledge of anything that happened "while he was dead". In essence, he's like a rebooted clone of Maanzecorian before he died. The vestige meanwhile may only have knowledge that it gleaned "from the place where vestiges go", and so IT knows how it managed to get itself "freed".... even if it had to leave a portion of its own psyche behind entrapped.
I'm going to think more on this, as it could be a really interesting play on a character, as he may see his purpose as being "the bridge between the two aspects of one being". |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 18:31:10
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Jeff, just curious, the part where you talk about HOW he ascended (i.e. finding Ilsensine, asking him a question, etc..)... is that canon anywhere? If not, I just really want to tell you... I like that idea. Good work.
Thanks! It was basically inspired by the Diirinka and Diinkarazan origin, and it seemed to fit as a potential origin for a philosophical/exploration god. :D
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and just to put some spin on an idea... since he was supposedly "killed" by Tenebrous with some magic word (forget the term used), and since both Tenebrous and Orcus both exist now (Orcus is free and Tenebrous is a vestige)... what if there's something similar going on with Maanzecorian. By that I mean, what if his church now also includes binders that bind an "aspect" of Maanzecorian that's still entrapped in the place where Vestiges go. Maybe the returned Maanzecorian is missing SOME of his knowledge and its held by his own vestige. Maybe there are "cleric/binders" who multiclass. Finally, maybe the vestige of Maanzecorian refuses to bind with anyone who binds with Tenebrous. I know it would be a bit confusing as hell, but its got the basis of a good story I think.
Going with this idea, whenever a binder "binds" the VESTIGE of Maanzecorian (note, should come up with another name.... maybe IT is called the Philosoflayer), it should appear within the circle, rise up appearing as a great illithid, surround the head of the binder with its own tentacles... and then disappear, like its entered their brain.
I don't really know much about vestiges and the like, it's not something that was in 2e so I haven't given it any real consideration. I'd much rather Maanzecorian be alive as he was than there be any other sort of situation. I wanted to leave it open for individual DMs to do what they wanted (including having another deity masquerade as him), but for my campaign, it's "Somehow, Maanzecorian returned." ;)
I see Tenebrous as just Orcus's name while his name was erased, and he is now an actual undead god, which basically doesn't mean anything within the rules.
Jeff |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 17:59:13
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Maanzecorian the Philosoflayer: https://bit.ly/4dsptuH
Maanzecorian always fascinated me, as a knowledge- and philosphy-loving deity of a very evil race. He always felt like the perfect patron of Estriss, the illithid in the Cloakmaster Spelljammer novel series. I was disappointed when he was unceremoniously slain in the Dead Gods adventure, so I took this opportunity to create the potential of a revival (or, for those who wish it, another deity to masquerade as him).
Jeff
Jeff, just curious, the part where you talk about HOW he ascended (i.e. finding Ilsensine, asking him a question, etc..)... is that canon anywhere? If not, I just really want to tell you... I like that idea. Good work.
Oh, and just to put some spin on an idea... since he was supposedly "killed" by Tenebrous with some magic word (forget the term used), and since both Tenebrous and Orcus both exist now (Orcus is free and Tenebrous is a vestige)... what if there's something similar going on with Maanzecorian. By that I mean, what if his church now also includes binders that bind an "aspect" of Maanzecorian that's still entrapped in the place where Vestiges go. Maybe the returned Maanzecorian is missing SOME of his knowledge and its held by his own vestige. Maybe there are "clerics of Maanzecorian/binders" who multiclass, and they report that when they bind they can "hear" the whispers of the "two halves of Maanzecorian trying to talk to one another through them". Maybe the vestige of Maanzecorian refuses to bind with anyone who binds with Tenebrous. When someone binds the vestige, maybe they as well hear the whisperings of it in their brain talking to any other bound vestiges... but the binder themselves can't make out what's being said. Maybe you can even negotiate between the vestiges to allow Maanzecorian to give more abilities in return for another vestige not supplying as much (just a mechanics idea here... either extra powers or the powers be enhanced that Maanzecorian does give). I know it would be a bit confusing as hell, but its got the basis of a good story I think.
Going with this idea, whenever a binder "binds" the VESTIGE of Maanzecorian (note, should come up with another name.... maybe IT is called the Philosoflayer), it should appear within the circle, rise up appearing as a great illithid, surround the head of the binder with its own tentacles... and then disappear, like its entered their brain.
granted none of that fits in the 2e ruleset, but just figured I'd post the idea. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 16:32:44
quote:
Originally posted by Iahn Qoyllor
As always Jeff, absolutely superb work! Really enjoyed your write up.
Thank you, I appreciate it! :D
Jeff |
| Iahn Qoyllor |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 12:33:05
As always Jeff, absolutely superb work! Really enjoyed your write up. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 01:23:10
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Maanzecorian has always needed more lore love. This is really a great work up!
Thank you!
Jeff |
| The Sage |
Posted - 02 Oct 2024 : 00:49:30
Maanzecorian has always needed more lore love. This is really a great work up! |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 01 Oct 2024 : 23:42:55
Maanzecorian the Philosoflayer: https://bit.ly/4dsptuH
Maanzecorian always fascinated me, as a knowledge- and philosphy-loving deity of a very evil race. He always felt like the perfect patron of Estriss, the illithid in the Cloakmaster Spelljammer novel series. I was disappointed when he was unceremoniously slain in the Dead Gods adventure, so I took this opportunity to create the potential of a revival (or, for those who wish it, another deity to masquerade as him).
Jeff |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Aug 2024 : 22:08:10
As I already discussed, I agree with your idea that using ceremorphosis works best as a "shortcut" to making illithids (and I further it by stating that letting one grow "naturally" should be more likely to produce an "enhanced" version of illithid such as a ulitharid). If you don't mind though, it might be interesting to quickly discuss an idea surrounding neothelids.
I personally like the idea that neothelids are tadpoles that are found to be lacking mental capacity.... I guess similar to a human born with something like down syndrome... and maybe as a result of lacking mental faculties, their physical abilities are stronger. Thus, because they lack the mental capacity, they never get implanted, and they also don't form into illithids. The "official story" for them is that they would normally be eaten by the elder brain, so they have to come about as a result of the elder brain being gone, and then they have to consume a living brain to "awaken" their psionic abilities.
Where I think I'd change the neothelid story would be that the elder brain doesn't consume these "bestial" tadpoles, but rather keeps them kind of like guard dogs that it lets feed from portions of brains that are "less tasty" like the cerebellum that deals more with muscle control. These should lack the psionic abilities of the "classic" neothelid and be simple brutes. But then periodically an "awakened" neothelid comes about when one of these overgrown larvae eats the brain of a fallen illithid, and this awakens their psionic abilities and they turn against the elder brain. These awakened neothelids hate illithid society because they see that they were treated differently and are willing to attack an elder brain, which makes all illithids despise them, and the more illithid brains that they consume further enhances their abilities, if only temporarily.
With this scenario, the "guardian of the elder brain" versions could still have the acid breath weapon, tentacle attacks, and be able to swallow individuals.... they just would lack all the psionic abilities. They might also age/die much more quickly, but if they get awakened maybe they can live longer. They might also be colored differently, and this might be how illithids can tell when a neothelid "goes rogue". It would make them much more feasible for use as well since colonies might be much more willing to allow them to survive to adulthood.
As a further aside, one thing I've heard people say about children with neurological disorders is how loving they are towards the people that care for them. It occurs to me that illithids might look at the "guardian neothelids" who protect the elder brain in a similar way... they may see them as simple but "good natured" ... and they might get really pissy with people that hurt them (kind of like how someone might view a bully picking on their sibling that has a neurological disorder and might punch the bully in the face). |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 02 Aug 2024 : 22:54:13
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I mean, their origins differ, and all that, but in the end both are extensions of a deity's will in whom a lot of divine power is invested directly (therefore, valuable assets in much the same way as power keys).
Not sure if the two can be distinguished by mortals at all, unless the deity allows it.
Avatars are extensions of the deity themselves, and can be seen essentially *as* that deity. Proxies are powerful servants, and are clearly so. They are independent creatures, whereas avatars are not. Mortals might mistake a proxy for a god themselves *in service to* another deity (as is the case with a pair of Corellon's Solar proxies), but if mortals started worshiping a proxy *instead* of their master, I can't imagine the deity would let that go. It would threaten their own power. But most proxies can absolutely be distinguished from their deity, even by mortals.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I meant the leach, yes. Well, the kindori is alive, and it enters the portal first. There's just a fairly small saddle on its body.
An elven ship isn't all living starfly plant, there are various rigging parts and weapons. But the rule does not say that every part which isn't living needs to be removed and brought inside before crossing the shell, does it? The bulk of it being a living starfly plant is enough.
The material specifies ships, and whatever a Leech is mounted on, isn't the *ship.* It's an arbitrary restriction, sure, but there's tons of similar restrictions across the D&D multiverse. That's the nature of the setting.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
"Should a reigar die, go insane, sink into a depression, or otherwise lose its normal mental acuity, the esthetic reflects this change in mental state by physically altering its appearance (e.g., rotting, developing spiked flanges, blades, etc.) and quite often acquiring a stronger personality of its own."
Yeah, and? That's still not wild, and there are *VERY* few of them like that anyway. Most spheres don't even have one Reigar, let alone multiples.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Why can't enter? It cannot move while in the Flow on its own power, sure. But all it takes is a small tug with proper helm(s). And nothing says explicitly that a helm cannot be installed on them directly. While in wildspace, it would probably be not only redundant, but prevented from working by the innate propulsion, but since in the Flow innate propulsion does not work anyway, why not? The whole process would be insufficiently elegant for the Reigar, sure.
No, it says they cannot move *INTO* the flow. That means they can't enter it (at the very least, under their own power). Either way, it's immaterial because an esthetic would never let anyone other than its master use it. These aren't ships that other people can use, whether they're mounting a helm on it or harnessing it or whatever.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Why should it be a "classic" mind flayer?
It's kind of hard to advocate for a change in society if it would mean a fundamental change in the whole race's biology. As it stands, advocating for being good would mean the extinction of mind flayers as a whole, because they would all (those that survive at least) become neothelids. If instead they could still become normal mind flayers, then it wouldn't be the extinction of the species, just a slower growth for new members.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Well...
Estriss ("Thought Taker") from Spelljammer novels and one adventure AFAIK was not statted, but it obviously acts LN, consistently.
Sangalor of the Secrets (priest of Oghma from Skullport) is explicitly LN.
I don't see why this cannot be only moderately odd in the Creeds that are not intrinsically aggressive or domineering (like Creatives and Thorough Biters).
But why would they go on and proselytise anything?
In a varied and diverse society, there should be those advocating for a wide range of different lifestyles or goals, and I think it makes for a more interesting illithid culture, and also means there are more illithids that outside people can work with or negotiate with. Maybe they get killed or pushed out of an evil society, but that variety creates a more real society and tons of adventure hooks.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Why should not it be difficult, and why would it not be difficult anyway?
I'm not sure what you're saying exactly. Any illithid who wishes to be good essentially has the death of an innocent sentient creature on their conscience, and to propagate their species, they have to kill another innocent. How can they square that? That's why it is "difficult."
I'm not telling you to change your view, I'm just expressing what *my* view is. You're welcome to disagree with it, but I'm not particularly interested in arguing about it.
Jeff |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 02 Aug 2024 : 07:06:40
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Depending on what? A proxy *is* completely different from an avatar.
I mean, their origins differ, and all that, but in the end both are extensions of a deity's will in whom a lot of divine power is invested directly (therefore, valuable assets in much the same way as power keys).
Not sure if the two can be distinguished by mortals at all, unless the deity allows it.
quote:
A howdah attached to a kindori isn't alive. The Kindori is, yes, but the *howdah* is the ship, so it would not be able to leave. See the Neogi leech for an example; the Leech itself is the ship, not what it is using to power it.
I meant the leach, yes. Well, the kindori is alive, and it enters the portal first. There's just a fairly small saddle on its body.
An elven ship isn't all living starfly plant, there are various rigging parts and weapons. But the rule does not say that every part which isn't living needs to be removed and brought inside before crossing the shell, does it? The bulk of it being a living starfly plant is enough.
quote:
There are no "wild esthetics"
"Should a reigar die, go insane, sink into a depression, or otherwise lose its normal mental acuity, the esthetic reflects this change in mental state by physically altering its appearance (e.g., rotting, developing spiked flanges, blades, etc.) and quite often acquiring a stronger personality of its own."
quote:
and even if there were, they can't enter the Flow.
Why can't enter? It cannot move while in the Flow on its own power, sure. But all it takes is a small tug with proper helm(s). And nothing says explicitly that a helm cannot be installed on them directly. While in wildspace, it would probably be not only redundant, but prevented from working by the innate propulsion, but since in the Flow innate propulsion does not work anyway, why not? The whole process would be insufficiently elegant for the Reigar, sure.
quote:
It means you don't *need* ceremorphosis to get a classic mind flayer. That's a pretty significant difference.
Why should it be a "classic" mind flayer?
quote:
Illithids are a really interesting race. They love knowledge and philosophy. I think there would be some who would advocate for a non-evil lifestyle,
Well...
Estriss ("Thought Taker") from Spelljammer novels and one adventure AFAIK was not statted, but it obviously acts LN, consistently.
Sangalor of the Secrets (priest of Oghma from Skullport) is explicitly LN.
I don't see why this cannot be only moderately odd in the Creeds that are not intrinsically aggressive or domineering (like Creatives and Thorough Biters).
But why would they go on and proselytise anything?
quote:
and that's difficult to do if your very birth is an evil act.
Why should not it be difficult, and why would it not be difficult anyway? |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 01 Aug 2024 : 22:12:24
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
A proxy may be little different from an avatar, depending.
Depending on what? A proxy *is* completely different from an avatar.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Illithids have other options, and if these all are not great, they would be able to e.g. maintain contact with that Astromundi sphere without risking Githyanki encounters, but not used regularly.
The most obvious is a giant howdah with long-range propulsion attached to a kindori or another large critter, even the neogi can do this. A better one is to capture several wild esthetics and breed them as needed, it will just need a small tug in the Flow. If backed with enough of telepathy (thrall "puppets" to do the talking, etc), nobody will know these belong to the illithids at all.
A howdah attached to a kindori isn't alive. The Kindori is, yes, but the *howdah* is the ship, so it would not be able to leave. See the Neogi leech for an example; the Leech itself is the ship, not what it is using to power it.
There are no "wild esthetics" and even if there were, they can't enter the Flow.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
How does this even differ from canon except in phrasing? It never needed to be anything more than "one hungry illithid tadpole accidentally swam into a lone swimmer's ear, and now there are humanoid illithids". May even have started with various lizard folk (those ceremorphs are not great, but sapient, and then they could just go on a quest for better hosts).
Also, consider that qualities of the Neothelids may greatly depend on the available diet.
It means you don't *need* ceremorphosis to get a classic mind flayer. That's a pretty significant difference.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Why do you want an "illithid Drizzt" style madness to start? 
Illithids are a really interesting race. They love knowledge and philosophy. I think there would be some who would advocate for a non-evil lifestyle, and that's difficult to do if your very birth is an evil act.
Jeff |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 01 Aug 2024 : 21:38:13
Anthraxus the Decayed: https://bit.ly/4fvA4an
Another near-power, and one of the famous old-school lower planar entities, Anthraxus is one of the few Yugoloths with a cult. He was once the Oinoloth and strives to become so again, and uses his cult not to propel him to godhood but simply to advance his many agendas.
Jeff |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 01 Aug 2024 : 14:28:26
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Hmm, maybe I need to rewrite that section, because they're actually trying to reinvigorate the avatar (this is connected to one of the two epic-style adventures in the boxed set). In the original material, it was Lugribossk, but the Illithiad changed Lugribossk into one of Ilsensine's proxies. Unfortunately, that makes very little sense in the context of the Astromundi Cluster; when the Illithiad mentioned Astromundi I was really excited, but then really let down that it basically was like "this is all wrong" and didn't do anything to integrate and merge the material. IMO, having Lugribossk as an alias of Ilsensine works best for having the material actually work without eliminating it altogether.
A proxy may be little different from an avatar, depending.
quote:
As for the Nautiloids, I think there's some new material that portrays the living ones as very ancient versions, essentially a lost technology. That said, I don't like the living ones. At all. Even though they look similar, it completely changes their usage; you can't ram another ship with them, which is the use of the original's tentacle-like forward element, which is also a really nice analogy to the way illithids eat without it being literally the same. Plus, having living nautiloids would allow illithids to freely leave the Astromundi Cluster, something only elves can do as a singular faction.
Illithids have other options, and if these all are not great, they would be able to e.g. maintain contact with that Astromundi sphere without risking Githyanki encounters, but not used regularly.
The most obvious is a giant howdah with long-range propulsion attached to a kindori or another large critter, even the neogi can do this. A better one is to capture several wild esthetics and breed them as needed, it will just need a small tug in the Flow. If backed with enough of telepathy (thrall "puppets" to do the talking, etc), nobody will know these belong to the illithids at all.
quote:
The main reason I dislike it is that it creates an inescapable "original sin" that any illithid who chooses the path of not being evil needs to contend with; it means advocating for good is *also* advocating for the extinction of their entire race.
Which is applicable to the other parasites as well. Also, as described the "illithids" as widely understood are not even the species, it's just the most common subtype of ceremorphs. The illithid species proper are eggs, tadpoles and the entire set of derived creatures, whether ceremorphs or neothenic. Elder brains are a construct and may not count, however (in the same way a flesh golem made entirely of human parts generally does not count as a human).
quote:
The easiest way IMO to reconcile the two would be to treat ceremorphosis as a "shortcut" to adulthood for an illithid, where normal tadpole growth would take far longer. That does mean that it would need to alter the origin of Neothelids; my solution here is to assume that Neothelids are neotenous illithid tadpoles, retaining juvenile aspects into adulthood the same way that axolotls do, but as an accident rather than an evolutionary change affecting the whole species.
How does this even differ from canon except in phrasing? It never needed to be anything more than "one hungry illithid tadpole accidentally swam into a lone swimmer's ear, and now there are humanoid illithids". May even have started with various lizard folk (those ceremorphs are not great, but sapient, and then they could just go on a quest for better hosts).
Also, consider that qualities of the Neothelids may greatly depend on the available diet.
quote:
I like illithids being, as a society, a thoroughly evil and malicious bunch (who can also work with others as is the case in Spelljammer), but still with the *possibility* of redemption that some members of the race might actually work towards (and of course then get exiled if not killed). It creates a more interesting civilization than one inextricably evil.
Why do you want an "illithid Drizzt" style madness to start? |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 31 Jul 2024 : 17:37:56
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, I meant Princess ... though I don't believe you came up with that (I honestly don't know enough on this power), I do like that you bought into it and started throwing out dubious questions on her parentage and kin. As a "Princess" it gives implications that she's not necessarily the "grown up" in the room, but she may be pushing against her "earlier" nicknames with her "mother" nicknames.
Well, she's a she so she wouldn't be a Prince of Elemental Good. :)
Chan and Olhydra are also Princesses. :)
Jeff |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 31 Jul 2024 : 14:30:03
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
interesting nickname... it implies she's not the ruler but rather the child.... which fits well with your discusssion of unknown parentage and/or brothers/sisters
Hmm? I don't follow. You mean her "motherly" nicknames? I see it more as her position relative to her servants and followers rather than anything to do with her relations to the other archomentals/powers.
Jeff
Oh, I meant Princess ... though I don't believe you came up with that (I honestly don't know enough on this power), I do like that you bought into it and started throwing out dubious questions on her parentage and kin. As a "Princess" it gives implications that she's not necessarily the "grown up" in the room, but she may be pushing against her "earlier" nicknames with her "mother" nicknames. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 31 Jul 2024 : 01:12:34
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
Not really. Most of the entries I have are purely divine (and monstrous in nature) and the majority are evil anyway. :)
Jeff
I meant 'archseraphs' (or something similar) akin to the various archdevils and demon lords/princes that exist. I don't think DnD explored those much so I'm not surprised if there aren't any. A tragic oversight, IMO.
Well, Solars fit that bill, as there are very few of them and they are incredibly powerful (and as the 2e material says, they're powerful enough to be gods but choose not to be). I think it's just one of the differences that evil sees worship as a path to power but good/neutrality doesn't. The leaders of the Eladrin and Primus are all powerful enough to grant spells, for example, but they choose not to (at least not to mortals).
Jeff |
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