| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 11:56:52
Well onto my next project of fleshing out little detailed areas.
Thar.
I'm looking for all the information that exists on Thar so that i can define its history more consistently.
At the moment there appear to have been two kingdoms that ruled Thar.
The first an ogre kingdom founded by Vorbyx and ruled by a Tharkul who may or may not have been an Oni. This kingdom destroyed Northkeep and had a large capital city with floating bridges that has now disappeared.
The ogre kingdom ended 1000 years ago (even though the last Tharkul Maulog was killed in 1288DR which led to the founding of Glister and the human kingdom of Thar (slight inconsitency but nothing that cannot be explained away).
Then after the fall of the ogre kingdom, an orc kingdom appeared.
Its overking Ologh was slain by a dragon called Iyrauroth (who has some draconic orc children whose progeny survive today) in 572 DR.
This may or may not have signalled the end of the orc kingdom.
So any ideas to explain the inconsistency with the ogre kingdom (it falling 1000 years ago and yet its last king was slain 70 years ago). I favour the simplest solution in that a powerful tribe survived after the fall of the kingdom that kept Vorbyx's hammer and declared its chieftain Tharkul. When Maulog was slain the hammer was lost and so no one can be legally (if such a term exists for ogres) called Tharkul.
Where was this fabled ogre capital. In the centre of Thar is a lake (according to the elminsters ecologies map) and a hill range which is home to Fangjaw Hold (according to a 4th edition map - maybe in a dragon magazine). I'm wondering if the capital isnt buried in one of those. If it had floating bridges that could mean either they were magic and floated on air, or that they literally floated on the water and it now lies at the bottom of the lake.
How did the ogre kingdom end. There are some hints that it was ended by dragons. This may have coincided with them stirring up the dragons to attack Northkeep. Maybe they woke up Iyrauroth and he was responsible for the end of the ogre kingdom, then after a 2 centuries of sleep he killed the orc overking as well and ended that kingdom.
Anyways, any lore or ideas will be most helpful. This area looks to be pivotal in the development of the Moonsea and actually had a significant effect on Cormanthor as well so it would be nice to get some more detail about it.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Icelander |
Posted - 15 Aug 2018 : 20:06:49
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I'm not sure I was particularly feverish when I made that up but the basis for the claim was Vorbyxs hammer which it is said only Vorbyx could wield, however other ogres have wielded it and so I decided on a familial connection. I realise the claim could be propaganda but that's fine, both can be true.
Then the orcs of Thar will also follow anyone who can wield the hammer so I figured it must have at one point been important to them as well do I figured why not have the founder of the orc kingdom wield it and even better make him the blood of Vorbyx and it tied in nicely to the bloodline magic I wanted to develop at the time so I ran with it.
The implication is there it's just not stated in black and white, although I often find the best realmslore is present by implication rather than statements of fact.
I suppose I'm wondering where you got the lore that Overking Ologh of Vastar ever owned or wielded the Hammer of Vorbyx, that he ever ruled Thar or had any connection to Thar.
I'm not arguing against it, if something links him to Thar. I still haven't re-read Emlimster's ecology of Thar and maybe Ologh is featured there.
It's just that I've only seen Ologh mentioned in the context of the gray orc kingdom of Vastar. From my perspective, there is no compelling reason to make him a ruler of Thar as well, as Thar seems to have been functionally independent from Vastar for the majority of history. Certainly Ologh did not claim the title Tharkul, at least not according to the sources I remember, and I'm certain he would have done so if he ruled Thar and held the Hammer of Vorbyx.
Ologh, of course, didn't found anything. He's one of the last Overkings of Vastar, not the founder of Vastar. There is no reason to assume that there were not innumerable Overkings preceding him in the thirteen centuries of Vastar history that come before him. If anything, Ologh is probably seen either as the last scion of a glorious line of orcish kings before the events of the Fall of Vastar or perhaps as an already decadent and degenerate descendant of far greater orcs in the past, living in ancient ruins he lacked the learning to rebuild and wallowing in the dwindling fruits of luxury he lacked the civilisation to create for himself.
It is true that Ologh had his subjects build him a throne in his court at the Hollow Mountain and that upon his death, this throne was contested by many claimants for the title of Overking. But I don't see much of a reason to assume that this new physical throne necessarily represented any greater degree of authority over land or warriors on Ologh's part than prior rulers of Vastar had.
Overking could have been a new title assumed by Ologh, I suppose, but no source mentions any such thing and given that Vastar fell shortly after his time, but had existed for as long as Cormyr before it, I don't think we need to assume that Ologh added new lands to Vastar. Especially considering the distance from Thar to the heartlands of Vastar, which makes it unlikely that any one ruler ever held sway in both lands. The dwarves of the Galenas certainly didn't seem to imagine any connection between the orcs of Thar and the orcs of Vastar.
Vastar existed as a kingdom of gray orcs in the modern Vast from -744 DR to 610 DR, with precursor orcish hordes and armies winning great victories over dwarves (and probably others) in the area between -1,068 DR and the official founding in -722 DR by Vas 'the Redeye'. Until -350 DR, it is unlikely that Vastar had much interest in the northern Moonsea lands that would become Thar, because they already bordered the much closer Cormathyr and Grong-Haap to the north.
Any interaction between Thar and Vastar would have happened after the fall of Grong-Haap and, thus, after Vorbyx became Tharkul of Thar. In the absence of other evidence, I imagine that the countries were neighbours and the usual mix of rivals, allies and enemies, at different times. Nothing suggests that they were ever the same polity and I've as yet not found evidence that the same ruler ever ruled both kingdoms.
The Sinking of the Northkeep was very likely accomplished by an allegiance of humanoid kingdoms around the Moonsea and Dragonreach, which may have included both an ogre kingdom and one or more orc kingdoms. Vastar was almost certainly involved, as was Thar, but whether Thar was, at the time, a unified kingdom or not, it is difficult to say. I do plan to scour my old 2e sources for clues, though.
It is entirely plausible that there could have been orcs in Thar, before and after the fall of the ogre kingdom, who might not regard themselves as subjects of the Overking of Vastar, but at various times as lords under the Tharkul of Thar or as independent kings.
A good example are the orcish kings who ruled in the eastern Thar at some point after 900 DR. They never mentioned any ancient glories of Vastar, but hearkened to tales of orcish lords and kings in Thar, as allies of the beast-men and ogres. There was even an orcish Hammer of Gruumsh that served as the orcish equivalent of the ogre-scale Hammer of Vorbyx, in being regarded as the emblem of a king of Thar for any orc warlord who could wield it.
Edit: In my campaign, I am considering whether there was an imperial period of Vastar history when the Overking of Vastar did rule over the orcs of Thar, as well as ruling the entire eastern shore of the Moonsea and as much of the Giantspire, Earthspur and Galena Mountains as were free of ice.
I'd just hesitate to postulate Ologh having had anything to do with that period, as my investigations indicate that the height of Vastar's power would have been between -350 DR and 512 DR, with a good guess for absolute height of power between 100 DR to 450 DR or so, and that Overking Ologh was the last great orc king, ruling over the decaying carcass of a far greater empire. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 24 Apr 2018 : 08:00:19
I'm not sure I was particularly feverish when I made that up but the basis for the claim was Vorbyxs hammer which it is said only Vorbyx could wield, however other ogres have wielded it and so I decided on a familial connection. I realise the claim could be propaganda but that's fine, both can be true.
Then the orcs of Thar will also follow anyone who can wield the hammer so I figured it must have at one point been important to them as well do I figured why not have the founder of the orc kingdom wield it and even better make him the blood of Vorbyx and it tied in nicely to the bloodline magic I wanted to develop at the time so I ran with it.
The implication is there it's just not stated in black and white, although I often find the best realmslore is present by implication rather than statements of fact. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 24 Apr 2018 : 03:31:59
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
There are no further details in Dungeon #69.
-- George Krashos
Thank you.
Are you aware of any suggestion, by yourself, Ed Greenwood or any other designer, that Ologh might have been dragon-blooded or with any other non-orcish blood?
Or that he had any connection with Iyrauroth prior to meeting death in his jaws?
No, can't see any reference to that in the sources.
It likely came from the feverish imagination of dazzlerdal!
-- George Krashos |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Apr 2018 : 19:52:24
I posted a new map snippet - not sure if it includes the stuff from that article. Its also FAR from finished, obviously. This was mostly done for layout purposes for adjoining areas. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 Apr 2018 : 19:43:10
Another source I missed, I'll go and check that out now.
And it appears I made up the ologh Iyrauroth connection. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Apr 2018 : 12:18:06
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
There are no further details in Dungeon #69.
-- George Krashos
Thank you.
Are you aware of any suggestion, by yourself, Ed Greenwood or any other designer, that Ologh might have been dragon-blooded or with any other non-orcish blood?
Or that he had any connection with Iyrauroth prior to meeting death in his jaws? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 17 Apr 2018 : 11:37:32
There are no further details in Dungeon #69.
-- George Krashos |
| Icelander |
Posted - 16 Apr 2018 : 23:32:47
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Ologh is mentioned as the blood of Iyrauroth in one quote (although I cannot recall the source).
I cannot find anything with Google, except the article in Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions.
As my adventure is all about bloodlines, true heirs and modern claimants to ancient crowns, I'm very interested in more canon on Ologh.
So far, I've found that he was the Overking of Vastar until he died in the jaws of Iyrauroth in the Hollow Mountain in 572 DR, he was described as a 'monstrous' orc, he carried the Blazing Banner of Ologh into battle and he was Lawful in alignment.
Unfortunately, I don't have Dungeon #69, so I don't know if there are any more details on Ologh in the article, 'Sleep of Ages' where the Blazing Banner is mentioned. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 Apr 2018 : 21:48:45
Ologh is mentioned as the blood of Iyrauroth in one quote (although I cannot recall the source). |
| Icelander |
Posted - 16 Apr 2018 : 21:27:55
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Thats probably a very simplistic view of Iyrauroths actions. He is known to have orcish descendants so he probably had his own army of draconic orc soldiers, and he may or may not have orchestrated the downfall of the kingdom of Vastar in the Vast by prompting the dwarves to exterminate them. He definitely moved into Mount Grimmerfang some point after the kingdom of Vastar ended.
Where is this from?
I'm especially interested if there is a canon source that mentions orcish descendants of Iyrauroth. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 13:30:36
Lots and lots of questions.
So Barze is a successor state of netheril as we know. Barze fled netheril just prior to its fall following some novel that i didnt read so dont know the exact reason why.
Varm is a tribal trader nation made of civilised barbarians from the Ride most likely .
The Vane i think are a tribe of Netherese influenced barbarians that arent nice.
Horreb we have almost nothing about. They are artificers, they helped make the cube to reimprison maram and Brian imagined them as thri kreen.
These proto nations were then all conquered/betrayed by tyranthraxus during the war to reimprison maram and its aftermath and then suddenly all these groups disappeared and a huge wasteland called Thar was created.
Thats the canon bits. Everything else is my theories.
The horreb are not thrikreen they are a spellweaver human hybrid. The spellweavers were outcasts from eril and had a number of linked pseudo nodes powered by primordial beings which they were using to keep themselves protected in an extradimensional space (protected from the effects of the grand conjunction which destroyed the spellweavers), they were able to possess humans ethereally like ghosts and so still lived a life of sorts while their bodies were in stasis. The Fall of Netheril and disruption of the weave screwed up their protection and the possessed humans merged with the spellweavers to produce multi armed insectlike beings with much magical knowledge.
Maram was imprisoned in the monument of the ancients for ages until the netherese released him to battle the enemy in the seven sigils war. Vorbyx was one of the lieutenants of Maram (or maybe the enemy), he was an elder ogre born of othea but escaped annams curse that degenerated his brothers into the ogre race.
After the seven sigils war he sided with maram and after his defeat he fled.
Tyranthraxus meanwhile conquered the kingdoms he had forged into an alliance to defeat maram and just at the moment of victory he was thwarted by a dragon known as embrurshaille who performed a great ritual to elevate her to another state of being or enhance her with super powers. This ritual drained all magic from the region (and life). It destroyed barze, varm, etc and everyone in it. Tyranthraxus's body was destroyed but he persisted as a possession spirit (power he already possessed when he served as leader of the trio nefarious before they bound him in slumber a millennia ago in netheril)
At this point in time thar is now the wasteland it is today.
Vorbyx arrives and establishes his ogre kingdom of thar. He attracts all the ogres from marams armies as well as several demon/ogres from the hidden vale (bred by the feyri and all kindred of storm the ogre).
The ogre kingdom strikes down its neighbour of northkeep using dragons (bought from iyrauroth). It unfortunately cannot afford the upkeep of iyrauroths payments so he destroys the ogre kingdom with an army (iyrauroth practices blood magic so he breeds powerful bloodlines to create races of supermen).
Ologh founds the orc kingdom of thar for iyrauroth and with his blood claim to the throne of vastar and thar he conquers all the orcs from thar to the vast. Iyrauroth then arrives to claim his payment from ologh but ologh refuses and we have a big battle and i think that is where the orc kingdom of thar ends.
Thats my brief outline of thar. Im still working on small details and when i finish with the old empires i might do thar (or moonshaes, or damara/vaasa).
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 05:26:59
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I thought that the Horreb were Thri-Kreen...
Were they? I have no idea. I'm just trying to figure-out what kingdom goes where and when.
Maybe they were Thri-Kreen that identified as Ogres. 
{I guess I need to go back through the thread and read the whole thing again...}  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 00:27:41
I thought that the Horreb were Thri-Kreen... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Feb 2018 : 23:38:26
NICE. 
Those were the second and third settlements of Barze, after the capital of Pubz was founded... and the people couldn't get along with each other.
You might be speaking of that one-a-year celebration of their 'freedom' from Netheril, when all the people would get rip-roaring drunk (or, at least, drunker than usual), and they'd 'attack' the other settlements in a good, old-fashioned drunken donnbrook. Unfortunately, most of the drunken people from those other settlements also left, to do the same things elsewhere, which lead to a LOT of people waking up in other people's beds... where they sometimes just decided to stay if they felt like it. This sometimes annoyed the few people who didn't participate, but trading one group of rowdy drunks for another isn't really that big a deal, and sometimes the women found themselves with better partners (it definitely kept things 'fresh' - they were a bunch of hedonists in Barze).
Salune got its name after the goddess, and the moon itself. The people there were 'lunatics' - they'd get inebriated and literally 'bark at the moon' (they thought they were werewolves... but they were just stupid drunks).
Speakeasy got its name because of the penchant for the always-hungover inhabitants to constantly say, "Shhhhhh... speak easy" whenever others were being loud after a night of partying. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 26 Feb 2018 : 23:22:51
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, some history...
Disenfranchised Low Netherse flee Netheril (which was rapidly become despotic due to the problems with the Phaerimm) and create a new settlelment to the NE called 'Pubz'. The Arcmage Barze shows up a few years later, and takes control of Pubz, renaming it after himself. Eventually, Barze (the man) was chased out of Barze (the realm) by the Netherese, who absolutely hated any sort of 'competition'. The realm was renamed after the archmage Diskôs, who lead the assault. Soon after, Nethril itself fell, and within three years Diskôs fell to the Horred, who came in the night and clubbed everyone to death (thus naming that region "Night Clubs").
Today, on the spot of the original settlement stands only a lonely drinking establishment & Inn, called 'Tavernus' by its Tiefling proprietor (it caters mostly to outsiders who have business on Toril).
Didn't they once have a war with the peoples of Salune and Speakezy? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Feb 2018 : 23:08:34
Okay, some history...
Disenfranchised Low Netherse flee Netheril (which was rapidly become despotic due to the problems with the Phaerimm) and create a new settlelment to the NE called 'Pubz'. The Arcmage Barze shows up a few years later, and takes control of Pubz, renaming it after himself. Eventually, Barze (the man) was chased out of Barze (the realm) by the Netherese, who absolutely hated any sort of 'competition'. The realm was renamed after the archmage Diskôs, who lead the assault. Soon after, Nethril itself fell, and within three years Diskôs fell to the Horred, who came in the night and clubbed everyone to death (thus naming that region "Night Clubs").
Today, on the spot of the original settlement stands only a lonely drinking establishment & Inn, called 'Tavernus' by its Tiefling proprietor (it caters mostly to outsiders who have business on Toril).
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Feb 2018 : 22:28:48
Okay, cool.
Above you said 'Varm' (as a kingdom, along with Horreb and Barze), but we were also talking about 'The Vane', and I was wondering if that was just a mistype.
Also went back and found Rich Baker's excellent article on Thar, which mentions Oni (Ogre-magi) involvement, and we also have some lore indicative that the Oni/Ogremagi may have taken control away from 'human masters', so we may be able to work all of this out.
I would have loved if Barze was another Netherese survivor-state; I think it was a mistake to place it so far back on the timeline (and make it so short-lived). Of course, there is an easy fix for that as well - Barze became something else after Barze himself left.
I now see Hlontar as well. Hmmmm...
I'm still liking the idea the Dark Three (as a very early part of their plan) brought some Ogremagi* over from Winterkeep (or some other 'forgotten fortress of Raumathar'). They could have created the early kingdom of Horreb, and were the people of the Black Sails - I am picturing a more 'eastern' looking ship-type than Faerûnians are used to, LIKE THIS.
*Or even Oni, and then created the Ogremagi with them. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 26 Feb 2018 : 22:03:55
Wow lots of stuff to go over here.
I have some answers for you of my own making (regarding horreb) and some explanation of rystall wood, and a rough timeline, but its my bedtime now so i will make a start tomorrow. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Feb 2018 : 21:38:49
Okay, tried finding it. Its 'Rystall Wood'.
And the word appears in the GHotR without any explanation or description, out of thin air. Ya know, when you're a writer/designer, you should never just assume people will know what you are talking about. I am reading through the GHotR entries and STILL have no idea where the hell they are discussing.
I just found it on the map in GHotR (I also notice the Netheril map is simply a copy of the one that came int he box... mistakes and all {sigh}. So the 'Battle of the Bones' (the range of hills it happened in) simply did not exist at the time of NetheriL? The EXACT spot its supposed to be in is named 'The Flats'. So I should assume that range of hills 'happened' during the fall?
Sorry for the off-topic rant - I should have thrown that over in my Mapping thread. I have much to ponder ATM.
I recall having to research this once before, because NOTHING actually tells you where Rystall Woods was, except that one damn map. Can't we just say 'Border Forest'? The elves are all dead, no-one cares what they thought.
Or someone involved with the FRwiki make an entry for it! A simple 'see Border Forest' would be all it would take!!!
EDIT:
Just reading through parts of the scroll again - where did Varm come from?  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Feb 2018 : 21:21:10
***Casts RAISE SCROLL Again ***
Can't believe all of that was only a few months ago... man have I changed my mind about a LOT of stuff.
@Dazzler - Did you ever finish the timeline? There really is a LOT of great info in this thread (and yeah, I am back over this way again, because my 'historic map' made me have to think about what else was around).
@George Krashos - any input here and 'how things played out' in the Moonsea North (and strangely, I now lump The Vast into THAT, since Impiltur is technically part of The Unapproachable East.
The interplay between Barze, Horreb, and Vastar are very important to me right now. It looks like Barze fell just before the Year of Sundered Webs? Wouldn't it make more sense if it fell in that year (or immediately after)? Also, if Barze was up in The Ride, isn't there a tomb associated with that realm too far south for that? (and if lal of this was discussed in the thread already, apologies)
Horreb - could Horreb just be The People of the Black Sails mentioned in previous canon, and Brian James just finally named the place?
What if Horreb was more like a 'Mordor' type country? Or rather, your very generic, atypical 'evil dudes take over region and use orcs/humanoids as fodder' type of place? The Dark Three may have even been involved here. Then 'Big Bad' (that Orc/ogre hero figure) rises in vastar, and spreads HIS 'empire' west and then north, into Thar. At this point, Horreb would be on the decline (maybe its leaders died, moved on, or just turned on each other), and Horreb was 'folded into' Vastar. So we'd have Barze falling because magic fell (which makes the most sense to me), and Horreb not really fallng, so much as being 'absorbed', and as humans, dwarves, and elves pushed the orcs out of the Vast, the kingdom slowly migrated up and around the eastern Moonsea, until 'Vastar' (or what was left of it) was now completely in a new location. By that point, Vatsar may have already disintegrated back into quarreling tribes.
Thus, we have the Orcish kingdom infiltrating and merging with an Ogre-based one, which would keep all of the Thar history straight (in other words, both versions - orc & ogre - of the history would be 'true'). Horreb may have even been lead by Ogre-Magi (I think the timing would be off for the Dark Three, but they may have had some sort of involvment there - perhaps even bringing the ogre magi there form the east, in the first place).
Not loving the Imaskari for Horreb, but if we say the Dark Three (while mortal) were somehow involved with setting the place up, then the magic there may have been of a 'eastern' variety (Myrkul was from Murghôm). What if they brought a bunch of Ogremagi from the Taan lands - ogres that had access to Raumathari stuff? A small group that may have been operating out of Winterkeep or Fanlagh - Fanlagh might be better, since it is quasi-my creation (its based off of some unnamed canon), but Winterkeep would ground it in Realmslore better, and it also happened to be the old capital of Raumathar.
My problem is the timing of all this - timelines (and lineages) are not my strongest area. It appears Barze would have fallen at the same time as Nethril, but Horreb would have co-existed with Asram, Anauria, and Hlondath (and the early Elevn Court? Damn, elves are my weakness... I have no idea when they got to that region). For example, I do maps, and I still get confused every time I see 'Rystel Wood'. There is no such place! Stop talking about it! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Sep 2017 : 23:49:11
Personally, I would pull 'mankind' out of the original list and replace them with an insectoid race (like, perhaps, the spellweavers).
Humans can go with giants and dragons - 'secondary creators'. I'd say elves as well, but elves are already a creation themselves (of the Fey). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 13 Sep 2017 : 07:26:13
Well the spellweavers havent been in the region for 30000 years, what is left is a degenerate hybrid version. Plus the moonsea is little with ancient places of power built by magic powerful races that vanished. We could use the creator races line again and again or maybe its time for something different. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 22:16:02
Thanks Tom!!!
Now I'm stuck on 'Bone Tower' - so much stuff appeared on maps of that region that didn't get any info. Anyone have a link to the old Thar article written by Rich Baker? The old link (back on pg.3, I think) is dead now. I have the map, just not the article. My Google-Fu isn't working so well* (I know there is at least one archive of old articles somewhere).
And I am surprised no-one's ever tried to connect the region to Tharizdun. Of course, he hasn't had a lot of realms 'face time' until recently. Spellweavers just feel wrong for the region, but then again, so do Thr-Kreen. Maybe Spellweavers are a highly-evolved (from the future?) form of Thri-kreen? And we have ogres, some sahuagin, and even an orc or three with four arms... seems the spellweavers were trying to do the 'Creator Race' thing themselves. Maybe they view 'four arms' (six appendages) as 'the perfect form', and anything less offensive (an unevolved animal).
*Ha ha! Got it! " The Google-Fu is strong in this one".
You'll have to C&P, because its the kind of link CK hates - https://web.archive.org/web/20130531140238/http://www.wizards.com/DND/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drrl/20071217a |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 22:12:06
I think the citadel you want is in the ruins of zhentil keep boxed set. Its an old fortress used sometime when zhentil keep was named flostrens hold and was the site of a battle where some wizards got fried.
Iyrauroth and manshoom have a connection through the cult of the dragon i think. Manshoon influenced the formation of that mini flight of dragons in the moonsea and dalelands. Iyrauroth undoubtedly provided quite a few dragons to it. He is in command of more than a few younger dragons and he is not above thinning their ranks periodically to maintain his position (as the attack on northkeep shows).
I wouldnt be surprised if iyrauroth and manshoon were playing a game of chess of sorts for control of the moonsea. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 21:41:21
I sent out Bestiaries 1 and 2 and Prestige in the Realms. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 21:24:22
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm still trying to figure out what Citadel Ankhalus is from; thats what got me started with re-reading this thread.
BTW, Manshoon used to ride a Huge Black dragon - I forget its name (its in Spellfire). I'm thinking it may have been related to Iyrauroth. He seemed pretty damned upset when it got toasted.
Hmmmmm... you don't suppose Manshoon IS Iyrauroth? 
Iyrauroth rather predates Manshoon. Cult of the Dragon has Iyrauroth active in 572 DR; Manshoon was born in 1229 DR.
Manshoon's fallen mount was Orlgaun. I don't think we have much info about him, other than Manshoon rode him and he died due to wounds taking fighting Shandril Shessair. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 21:06:43
I'm still trying to figure out what Citadel Ankhalus is from; thats what got me started with re-reading this thread.
BTW, Manshoon used to ride a Huge Black dragon - I forget its name* (its in Spellfire). I'm thinking it may have been related to Iyrauroth. He seemed pretty damned upset when it got toasted.
Hmmmmm... you don't suppose Manshoon IS Iyrauroth?
*I just checked - its name was Orlgaun. Probably short for something with WAY too many letters. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 19:47:50
Not sure if i did the newer timeline or not. Everything i do evolves with each region so its different now after doing netheril. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 19:43:52
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I have copies of the forging the realms articles and the bestiaries one and two so i will email them over if I can find your address.
Markustay2012@hotmail.com
And thanks
P.S. - so you never did a newer version of the timeline? Or did I just miss it somehow? Anyhow, hopefully a new map of the region will get everyone (including you) excited again - there is SO MUCH on so many different maps; once I start combining it all its going to be almost as crowded as Cormyr! |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 Sep 2017 : 19:31:39
Wow, that was a long time ago.
So answering your questions.
Who is Iyrauroth. Well Iyrauroth is a black dragon that lives in the Thar region somewhere. He gets a few mentions in the histories involving the orc kingdom of thar. I threw together all the mentions of Thar into one word document and started to notice ancient black dragons all over the place interfering in politics in Thar (and the Vast).
So i connected a lot of dots and either i hit the nail on the head or i managed to link my brain to Eds because shortly after two forging the realms articles were released which supported just about everything i thought.
Iyrauroth struck a bargain with the ogres of Thar to bring down Northkeep. The ogre kingdom of Thar failed and so he reestablished it using half orc half ogres he had bred from the genetics of the line of ogre kings. He helped the orcs of Thar and Vastar reunite and used them to get hold of the Annasherion (look in ravens bluff for that one) to power an uber ritual to make him a super dragon. Unfortinately when he demanded payment of ogre thars debts Ologh refused and a massive fight occured between orc king and dragon which the orc king lost but the dragon never got the annasherion (it ended up beneath ravens bluff). I wrote up a big article on Iyrauroth in one of my alternate realms articles (issue 1 2 or 3 i think).
Iyrauroth is one dangerous mother, not only for his power, but also because no one has ever heard about him.
I have copies of the forging the realms articles and the bestiaries one and two so i will email them over if i can find your address.
As for the thri kreen, i did settle on what i think they are after i was working on netheril and george came up with that awesome jergal article. The thri kreen of horreb are not thri kreen at all they are a fusion of humans with the essence of soellweavers in a horrible accident that created a new insectoid race which looks like thri kreen (and we all know what happens when something looks similar - it gets stereotyped).
There are pyramids across the north. They are spellweaver nodes. There is one in the monument of the ancients, one on sorcerers isle in the moonsea, one in thunderholme, and some in ascore. The nodes in the moonsea were outcast spellweavers and they used the nodes to imprison powerful beings and draw the energy from them (why do you think Maram was there). The big spellweaver conjunction broke all that and the spell weavers in sorcerers isle got trapped in an ethereal prison. They took to possessing humans (their former slaves) and this worked for a long time until karsus broke the weave and they all got stuck as human spellweaver hybrids. They still had all the civilisation of before but tyranthraxus and his armies shattered that and eventually the people degenerated into barbaric thrikreen like people.
At least thats how i spin it. It ties up a few loose ends without involving civilisations on the other side of the world (which i dont like doing)
No idea about the Vane or the People of the Black Sails. I suspect (or vaguely recall) that the Vane may have been a tribe of barbarian peoples from The Ride in which case they are likely a mix of Rengarth, Low Netherese (yes i distinguish the two) and the people that lived there all along.
I love going on about Thar. It was my first alternate realms project and is soooo interesting i could talk about it all day, plus it ties in nicely to Netheril which i love just as much).
As for elder ogres. I peg them as unique individuals (i forget the guys name who founded ogre thar) that managed to escape Annams curse somehow. He bred with the ogres already there to make something more than a normal ogre, but not much more. The oni i peg as having arrived later. I think the oni come from Storms band in the Hidden Valley in Netheril which i made as half demon half ogres bred by a feyri clan of siluvanede sent to destroy netheril for stealing the artifacts present in the last dlardrageth armoury that Finder plundered millennia before. Its a long story but i like distant consequences to events.
Give me a few hours and ill email you what ive got on thar. Not much geographical and a lot termed homebrew (and its my early work so less polished than the drivel i produce now), but you can take what you will from it. |
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