| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 00:17:23
I'm interested in knowing if anyone has effectively removed (killed off), ignored (never placed) or otherwise dumped a race from the your Realms campaign and why.
For me, I removed the off-shoot elven races (aquatic, avariel, and lythari(I think that's what they are called). I also promptly ignored the addition of 'jungle' and 'arctic' dwarves. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes more is actually less.
If I decide that aquatic elves exist, it will only be to secure the existence of Myth Nantar, which I'm not, at present, inclined to do.
There are also relatively 'minor' races that I've never used (the kenku come to mind). Usually this is because I find the race uninteresting.
I also have to say that the Realms seems a bit full of reptilian races. I know why they exist, but there are so many of them that I think there should be a major kingdom (beyond the Vilhon Reach) to represent them. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 04:56:21
I'm keeping Elves, Goblins, Dwarves, Gnolls, Genasi, Saurials, and Sahuagin. Just throwing a different spin on the lore to suite my needs. 
Elves: Humans that were abducted by goblins. The Goblins have mutilated their victims to create an immaculate, ageless beauty. After the Goblins had created a sizeable amount of Elves for trade with the continents Kara-Tur, Chult and Abeir, the Elves staged a violent revolution that resulted in a united resistance of Elf and Genasi. In the aftermath of the war, the Goblins returned to the mountains of the southern pole. The Elves remembered the Goblins’ lessons—that the Elves were nothing more than sex objects for the peoples of Faerun. The Elves initially took to abducting the offspring of every sapient race, raising the children, and then turning them into Elves.
The Elf-Gnoll conflict was initiated when a devout Gnoll was left without a wide range of fresh corpses to practice her necromancy. In the aftermath, the majority of the Elves decided to relegate their cradle-snatching to humankind. Those that continued taking Gnoll, Sahuagin, and Saurial offspring were forced to flee Faerun. The outcast Elves settled on Kara-Tur, Chult, and Abeir.
Elven scripture promotes the belief in a righteous deity—Corelleon—that led the Elves to rise up against their Goblin molders. Whereas Goblins molded Elves, Corelleon created Elves by giving the folk a purpose-driven life of exacting revenge against humankind.
When an Elf passes away, it is custom for the Elf’s mates to use the skin and bones for clothing. The flesh, viscera, and brain are bound to fungi bartered from the Hook Horrors. This fungus comes from tunnels near what is rumored to be the resting grove of the primordial dragon Rith.
The Elves allow the fungi to grow up around the flesh, viscera, and brain. At the end of the growing period, the Elves cultivate the mass of flesh and fungus into a hound-shape. The ensuing myconihounds provide a source of companionship and assist the Elves in their hunting excursions. A few of the neurons are bound within stones that the Elves call medukore. The medukore serve as storehouses of the neurons’ action potentials; these stones allow the Elves to reanimate a body. Embedding the medukore within a corpse allows the stone’s bound action potentials to reactivate the corpse’s organs and physiological processes.
Sahuagin: Possess a thickly muscled tail tipped in a stinging barb. A ray-like carapace spans the length of the Sahuagin, giving the sea-folk a cloaked appearance. The ray carapace can be used to catch projectiles launched by the Sahuagin’s prey. The Sahuagin’s ancestors used their skills with deep-sea creature poisons to capture herds of sea-beasts for use as submersibles. Today, the Sahuagin use their sea-beasts as bio-organic pirate ships. The strongest of the sea-beasts have been subjected to genetic modification, which allows them to swim emerged or submerged below the ocean. The best of the modified sea-beasts are used as breeding studs, which has allowed the Sahuagin to create very bizarre-looking pirate ships.
The Sahuagin have used their spellcraft and sea-beasts to bore into the continent of Faerun, creating underground channels and seas. These underground waterways have allowed the Sahuagin to establish a sort of criminal underworld on Faerun. Sahuagin society is based around piracy. The Sahuagin sell their poisons and weaponry to the pirates of Faerun. The caveat to accepting a Sahuagin-based weapon is that one must take on that Sahuagin as his or her patron. Thus, the best of the Sahuagin weaponsmiths are, effectively, mob bosses.
Sahuagin society believes in providing people of all races with whatever form of outlaw goods and entertainment they desire. If these primitive, carnal desires were not met, the Sahuagin believe that any deprived society will fall apart as the politicians, merchants, and peasantry pursue their illegal interests. There are a few Sahuagin that come to revile the brutal norm of Sahuagin society. These objectors are taken via underground waterway to the Saurial libraries and given proof via historical accounts of fallen civilizations that the Sahuagin are a necessary evil that ensures the survival of Faerun. If the Sahuagin objectors still oppose the Sahuagin’s underworldly enterprises, the objector may be sold to Sahuagin scientists as test subjects for new weaponry or lobotomized and sent to the spawning caverns. In the spawning caverns, the lobotomized Sahuagin serve as a source of reproduction to ensure the survival of the Sahuagin race.
The Sahuagin are hated by a portion of humankind for abducting humans—men/women, children/adults—and selling them to the Genasi and Hook-Horrors. The Sahuagin were not directly involved; their pirate captains and crimelords were responsible for the kidnappings and cradle-robbing. A Gnoll shaman examined a few of the mangled corpses that appeared to be somewhat human.
|
| Joebing |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 04:16:03
I haven't "banned" any races, but I have banned certain race/class/PrC combos, for example no Elf Ranger (3.5)/Deepwood Sniper (3.0 MotW). By 11th level, its too powerful. I ran one, and I took it to the bank, adding in Arcane Archer, Order of the Bow Initiate, and Master of the Order of the Bow before I was "retired" at Level 90. Still cannot believe the DM let it go that long after 6 levels of Deepwood Sniper I was slaying dragons almost at will. |
| ViniciusZoio |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 11:35:57
In my recent 4e game (set in 3e realms), I let the players choose whatever they wanted, with the caveat that certain race combinations would need more work or that more exotic races could be refluffed or reworked to fit into the setting. When one of them chose "dragonborn" for his character, for example, I stated that instead of being the "Abeiran" dragonborn of 4e realms, he would be one of the "Bahamutic" dragonborn from 3e's "Races of Dragon".
It was as simple as that.
Although I must state that his is shorter game - if it were a campaign, I would probably limit the number of players that get to play exotic races, in order not to end with a group composed only of rare individuals :P. |
| louis_bowwow |
Posted - 22 May 2013 : 04:49:53
I placed the shifters in Anchorome. The tribes of the north would breed with lycanthropes to harness the animal spirit. After many years the blood has spread out.
The changelings are descendants of Dopplegangers and humans down in Lopango. The Batrachi used the Dopplegangers to infiltrate human society and some bred with the locals. After the Batrachi disappeared, the dopplegangers and their offspring stuck around. They are a secretive race that lives on the fringes.
Dragonborn are a Kara tur race. I use the race setup from the races of dragon s book. They were originally from other races, but changed into the new race through metamorphosis. Basically dragonborn with foo man choos.
That is just a few races, maybe post more later. |
| Marco Volo |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 17:32:22
I've not included loxos, genasi, aasimars, warforged, dragonborn and a few others (giff for example) and... well... space giant hamsters (even miniature)  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 18:43:21
Okay, so if a deity-class being actually took a dump, would that then be a new race? After all, we have races derived from blood of gods, the flesh of gods, the maggots of gods, etc... why not a race that are literally crap?
I even have a name for them - DUMPLING!  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 16:30:47
It was twenty years ago when the demi-god Barak first made his appearance in my Forgotten Realms around Glister...and his Darkarian Knights were hounding my party of adventurers about 15 years ago...
I don't recall talking about it on the net though...though I may have been on the old Forgotten Realms L-Forum or whatever it was...can't recall.
That was also when I added the Trogor to my forgotten Realms...so to get back to this topic, I don't think I so much dump races from my FR; but instead I add more! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 15:05:37
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
For example, take the ghost bears [the actual ursine species native to the world of Strana Mechty, and not the Clan warriors] of BATTLETECH. I was struck by some of their curious natural abilities and appearance, and so I begun crafting a possible race based on this that I might later find a place for in my Realms.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Are you going to make them intelligent bears?
Yes. I'm going to combine them with a little of the Urskan from 3e's Frostburn.
(Golden Compass...) I've never read it, but I do recall seeing the film with Narnra. And the intelligent bears from the film were originally a formative part of my idea about bring a race of intelligent humanoid ghost bears in my Realms.
Dilbians FTW!!!
I've gone more of a 'Bjornings' route myself for that (adapting more of my HB world to my FR mish-mosh). And BTW, trying to pick-apart that uber-quote was more then I could handle. 
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I was completely amazed when I read about the Minotaurs of Brian's imagining...because MANY years ago when I was still a young lad, a friend of mine ran a Minotaur character from Thar that was a Fighter/Mage!
I've had this happen many times (in regards to what others have done), and have seen the same phenomena far to often amongst other people for it to be mere coincidence (which I used to chalk it up to).
I now think that Ed (and so many others over the years) have planted the 'seeds' for all these ideas a long time ago, and they sit there in the back of our minds and take root, until we no longer remember the original bit we got our ideas from. We also get a lot from reading discussions on various boards, and then we might see some of our ideas cycle back to us (with the poster not even knowing where the concept originated).
For example, for some 'strange reason' I had decided that Thay was once land of Centaurs. There was some centuar-love in the novel Red Magic, and it implied there was a fairly large population of Centaurs in the eastern Realms. There also the Hordelands centaurs, and a group we 'met' in the novel Crusade. So I decided (all on my own I had thoght) that that region was once a centuar nation, in much the same way we have elven nations (in other words, not at all like a human nation), and the plateua was covered with quite a bit of forest at one point. When I was discussing some of this on the WotC boards George Krashos thought it was amazing that he had been thinking much along the same lines.
Then some time later I noticed the words "Centaur Tribes" written across Thay on the map on page 49 of Lost Empires of Faerűn. 
Obviously I had seen that, didn't really think about it at the time, and at some later point when I was working out my 'History of the Taan' it must have come back to me subconsciously (because I also still had those other rather vague centaur references in my mind as well). Now, I don't know if Krash saw the same thing, OR was responsible for it, but either way, what seemed like a coincidence in parallel development turned out to be a similar line of reasoning based on a few obscure blurbs.
And I blame all of that on Ed Greenwood - he's mesmerized us with his world, and when we think we are thinking for ourselves, we are really just walking down a path he blazed many, many years ago.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 10:08:17
quote:
... with his Strength bonus, he could kill things with 1 or 2 hit dice with a single punch!
Show me a grognard who hasn't exploited massive Strength bonus damage - don't lie! - we've all abused it before, I know I have. Quite potent (even munchkin) when combined with multiple attacks. You can totally tell the high-end on the (physical) stat tables were initially written for DMs to pound PCs with superhumanly strong monsters. The trope was sort of inverted when it became part of the 2E character design philosophy (ie: Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Planescape).
I feel 3E actually did an admirable job of putting Str back into line with the other stats. To be sure it's still important, but the points are better balanced across other stats and raw Str bonuses are basically outweighed by bonuses from class, feats, etc. The downside being that a 3E minotaur, while still quite impressive, just isn't as naturally fearsome in melee as his 2E counterpart.
Strangely, 4E didn't revert the Str stat values but it still inflated the damage-per-attack in other ways, sort of reinventing the old AD&D one-hit-kill play experience.
It's almost as if the same old damage inflation was shifted in each edition - from the stats, to the feats and items, to the races and classes. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 05:17:34
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Also being a minotaur who can benchpress small buildings is mildly game-breaking. Almost as boss as a 3E character!
Yeah, that was one thing I loved with my minotaur -- with his Strength bonus, he could kill things with 1 or 2 hit dice with a single punch! Not that he did that often, though... He did annoy some of the other PCs with his tendency to kick or punch a door open, rather than wait for the thief to pick the lock.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 04:24:19
2E fighter/mage = #winning
Also being a minotaur who can benchpress small buildings is mildly game-breaking. Almost as boss as a 3E character! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 04:08:29
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I was completely amazed when I read about the Minotaurs of Brian's imagining...because MANY years ago when I was still a young lad, a friend of mine ran a Minotaur character from Thar that was a Fighter/Mage!
I created a minotaur fighter-mage NPC, many years ago... I particularly liked the fact that he could literally pick someone up and fire a fireball down their throat! 
Never really did much with him, though... He's one of those on my mental back-burner; when I can find a good use for him, I'll dust him off.
And as mentioned many times before, I played a minotaur fighter back in 2E, and eventually ported him to the Realms. He's one of the owners of the inn that is another on-again, off-again project of mine. I never actually set out to play a minotaur -- we were rolling up characters, I rolled an odd range of stats and stared at them in bewilderment until my DM said "You could play a minotaur..." I loved the idea, grabbed my friend's copy of The Complete Book of Humanoids, and started snickering with delight at the idea. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 02:40:06
I was completely amazed when I read about the Minotaurs of Brian's imagining...because MANY years ago when I was still a young lad, a friend of mine ran a Minotaur character from Thar that was a Fighter/Mage!
His name was Xarkas...and I know he was at least a 9th level wizard (and a higher level fighter).
The players of my long-running Forgotten Realms campaign never had the "honor" of meeting him; though it was Xarkas who was responsible for training a group of "Knights" called the Darkarian Knights. They were one of those classes that you could create from the 2e AD&D DMs guide that were both armored and could use wizard magic.
Long before there were Warlock Knights in Vaasa, there were the Darkarian Knights:
A Darkarian Knight is a chosen warrior of the "Empire" of Darkar. He/She is a symbol of order and discipline, tempered by holy law and magical art. They are the soldiers destined to conquer the world for their master and deity, the Demi-God Barak.
It is Barak's will that his five castes (Priest, Knight, Magi, Enforcer and Citizen) bring order and prosperity to the chaos of the world. In so doing, all will live in ordered harmony, with no fear of war or even hunger. The Darkarian Knights fill the role of bringing this ultimate goal to fruition as the vanguard of Barak's Cult.
Candidates for knighthood must meet several requirements:
<snip>
HIGHLIGHTS
May use any weapon and wear any armor
Cast Priest and Wizard spells
May own no personal property
May only retain what they can carry
Must tithe 10% of all wealth and magic they find
Live according to the teachings of Barak's Cult
May only attain certain levels through ritual combat with the title holder
Human only +0
Warrior Combat Table +2
Warrior Saving Throws +0
1d10 hp per level +2.5
All Armor Allowed +0
All Weapons Allowed +0
HP after 9th: one +.5
Allowed Ftr Con bonus +1
Allowed Ftr Str bonus +1
4 Weapon Prof. +1
4 Non-Weap Prof. +1
Cast Priest Necromancy and Law +4
Cast Wizard Invocation and Necromancy +6
Use items allowed to Fighters +1
Total Equal +20
Must be Lawful -1
Must be Evil -1
May only own treasure he/she can carry -.5
Must donate 10% of all treasure kept -.5
Has particular ethos -1
May not associate with Chaotic Good -1
May not associate with non-Barak Priests -1
Total Equal -6
Total Multiplier x14
Ability Requirements: Str & Con 13, Int & Wis 14
Level.......HD...Wizard & Cleric Spells
1 = 0,000...1HD..Spells: 1 & 1
2 = 2,800...2HD..Spells: 2 & 2
3 = 5,600...3HD..Spells: 2 & 2 / 1 & 1
4 = 11,200..4HD..Spells: 3 & 3 / 2 & 2
5 = 28,000..5HD..Spells: 4 & 3 / 2 & 3 / 1 & 1
etc.
There is lots more, but this isn't the place for it I guess! lol
Back to the Minotaur, he was the founder of this order; and the entire time he was within the cult of Barak, he was disguised as a human.
Sometimes I am amazed that a lot of the ideas I have had for the Forgotten Realms end up in the game...it is amazing how things that are so similar (though obviously different) can be thought up by so many people! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 02:26:27
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think the realms have room for everything...the world is huge!
THIS
There are tons and tons of things I've 'filed away', and in that regard I am a lot like Sage. I don't necessarily dump something that has potential just because it doesn't fit into what I am currently running. I have imagined many, many things I've never used on other continents, just in case I want to use just one at a later date.
Often, I'll come across a reference from some obscure source that might not have anything even remotely to do with the Realms or D&D, and it will trigger the potential in my mind for some new race to use in my FR.
For example, take the ghost bears [the actual ursine species native to the world of Strana Mechty, and not the Clan warriors] of BATTLETECH. I was struck by some of their curious natural abilities and appearance, and so I begun crafting a possible race based on this that I might later find a place for in my Realms.
Are you going to make them intelligent bears?
Yes. I'm going to combine them with a little of the Urskan from 3e's Frostburn.
quote:
If so, you may want to check out the book The Golden Compass. I didn't really care for the book, myself, but it had intelligent bears, with their own society and civilization, in there. It was one of the few things about the book I really found intriguing.
I've never read it, but I do recall seeing the film with Narnra. And the intelligent bears from the film were originally a formative part of my idea about bring a race of intelligent humanoid ghost bears in my Realms.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 01:58:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Markustay
I love Minotaurs - always have. I have two varieties - one large and feral, and one more sophisticated and similar to the Krynn ones (although I am still conflicted about which way to spin that - which group is the offshoot of the other.)
A slippery slope, I think. First it's the minotaurs. Then the giants, the drow, the orcs, the ogres, the dopplegangers, the lizardmen. Next thing you know you'll have "civilized" and "enlightened" versions of beholders and phaerimm and illithids and trolls and all manner of abominable monstrosities from the chthonic and pelagic depths.
The civilized minotaur notion is cool (and, I mean, who wouldn't want a pimped out foppish minotaur with a "KNOXX" plaque dangling off his gold chains and diamond-tipped blueshine-plated horns sticking out of his custom phoenix-plumed fedora?) ... but I just can't condone the popular trend of humanizing monsters. Gotta keep monster inventories stocked up, need unambiguously bad stuff to kill, my minotaurs shall remain the half-mindless hungry Cretan brutes of tradition. This ain't Zakhara, this is supposed to be a "PoL" Realms defined by the endless need for heroic adventurers to stomp evil.
I don't see it as a slippery slope, especially when the precedent is already made. D&D has had civilized minotaurs for years -- again, see Krynn. There's even a minotaur bouncer named in The Moonsea.
And Brian James has worked toward addressing minotaurs in the Realms. He established a Minotaur kingdom in the Realms in his DRAGON article Realmslore: Ironfang Keep. Grong-Haap ruled much of the eastern Moonsea region from -981 DR through -350 DR. I'll note further that some descendants of Grong-Haap still exist -- living in small clans beneath the Great Gray Land of Thar. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 14:40:56
Yeah, my 'two shades of minotaur' kinda goes againts the rest of my down-sizing philosophy, but those Krynnish minotaurs are just soooooo cool.
I didn't just steal them - I stole their whole damn land! That island (BIG island) was once entirely theirs, but the Northmen invaded from the west and took over most of it. It was only by copying their ways were the minotaurs able to hold onto those last two kingdoms of Mithas & Kothos (lifted directly from DL). Before the invasion they were just tribal in organization. I've nicknamed that group 'Manotaurs' - they are the human-proportioned ones with human-looking feet (the normal 'brutes' have the Hooves).
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
There's no Underdark in my Realms, so... almost all Underdark-exclusive races.
I had originally done this as well, and just moved most of the UD races 'subsurface'. However, I recently struck upon an intersting notion regarding the dwarves and I've decide that there is something akin to the Underdark. Not nearly as pervasive, but still a decent network of tunnels connecting a lot of those sub-surface civilizations. However, its still pretty 'shallow' compared to the canon Underdark in the Realms.
Catfolk - I don't like the more anime types, but I do love Lionmen (like Monte Cook uses in his stuff). In my purely homebrew setting I've replaced the Orcs with those, but in my FR mish-mosh I haven't found the right place for them. I greatly dislike Wemics, so when I get down to The Shaar I may just swap them out. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 07:13:46
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Haha, I'll accept the compliment, Diffan. Not many people do understand my mentality.
|
| JohnLynch |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 07:12:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I just can't condone the popular trend of humanizing monsters.
I'm the opposite. I dislike the dehumanizing of races and labeling them as monsters. If it's not human it's a monster therefore we can kill it and take it's stuff and never have to question the morality of what we've done.
I'm all for racism. I'm okay with a "shoot all gith and halflings on sight" policy. But I outright admit that what I'm doing is playing a racist human who will extinguish the savages if given the opportunity in the name of civilization. I'm not playing an admirable character. It's when people who play "heroes" and exhibit the exact same behaviour that I become uncomfortable. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 07:09:32
There's no Underdark in my Realms, so... almost all Underdark-exclusive races. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 07:08:38
Haha, I'll accept the compliment, Diffan. Not many people do understand my mentality. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 07:00:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not saying I want to see beholder PCs or anything like that -- but the various D&D settings have shown that a non-evil, civilized individual here, or a group of them there does not necessarily open the floodgates of non-humanish races popping up everywhere.
Agreed. I quite don't understand the mentality of people who think that just because a Race is open for a player character to use it somehow instantly facilitates a HUGE swath of them being "accepted" by the overall community of that particular setting or that now there are 100,000,000 of them running around the world. D&D is not a shared community where we all play in one space/time/setting (Like WoW). It's indivdualized and grouped so what a few people can come to an agreement on what's acceptable and what isn't at a particular game and table.
For example, the desire to play a Vampire has always been strong in fantasy RPGs yet editions of the game outright deny it (pre-3E) or make it SUCH a difficult concept/reality in terms of game mechanics (3E, +8 Level Adjustment) that it's basically a non-option from the get go. Yet with 4E we saw a new Vampire class that fit within the framework of the system and not yet broken as far as their abilities go. Is it not enough for a person to say "Yea, that's not an option at my table or with the group" and instead require that the notion or option be removed from the game altogether because some don't agree with it? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 04:43:10
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Markustay
I love Minotaurs - always have. I have two varieties - one large and feral, and one more sophisticated and similar to the Krynn ones (although I am still conflicted about which way to spin that - which group is the offshoot of the other.)
A slippery slope, I think. First it's the minotaurs. Then the giants, the drow, the orcs, the ogres, the dopplegangers, the lizardmen. Next thing you know you'll have "civilized" and "enlightened" versions of beholders and phaerimm and illithids and trolls and all manner of abominable monstrosities from the chthonic and pelagic depths.
The civilized minotaur notion is cool (and, I mean, who wouldn't want a pimped out foppish minotaur with a "KNOXX" plaque dangling off his gold chains and diamond-tipped blueshine-plated horns sticking out of his custom phoenix-plumed fedora?) ... but I just can't condone the popular trend of humanizing monsters. Gotta keep monster inventories stocked up, need unambiguously bad stuff to kill, my minotaurs shall remain the half-mindless hungry Cretan brutes of tradition. This ain't Zakhara, this is supposed to be a "PoL" Realms defined by the endless need for heroic adventurers to stomp evil.
I don't see it as a slippery slope, especially when the precedent is already made. D&D has had civilized minotaurs for years -- again, see Krynn. There's even a minotaur bouncer named in The Moonsea.
And we've had non-evil drow in the Realms for a long time. Too many, perhaps, but it's not unreasonable to assume that there's going to be an oddball or two in every race. Spelljammer canon has a non-evil, neutrally-aligned beholder bartender; IIRC, he's on the Rock of Bral, and his civilizing is a result of a journey he undertook within Realmspace. Spelljammer canon also has a "civilized" illithid.
Realms canon has at least a couple of "civilized" giants and a group of "civilized" orcs, and a peaceful group of ogres, too.
I'm not saying I want to see beholder PCs or anything like that -- but the various D&D settings have shown that a non-evil, civilized individual here, or a group of them there does not necessarily open the floodgates of non-humanish races popping up everywhere. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 00:05:10
quote:
Markustay
I love Minotaurs - always have. I have two varieties - one large and feral, and one more sophisticated and similar to the Krynn ones (although I am still conflicted about which way to spin that - which group is the offshoot of the other.)
A slippery slope, I think. First it's the minotaurs. Then the giants, the drow, the orcs, the ogres, the dopplegangers, the lizardmen. Next thing you know you'll have "civilized" and "enlightened" versions of beholders and phaerimm and illithids and trolls and all manner of abominable monstrosities from the chthonic and pelagic depths.
The civilized minotaur notion is cool (and, I mean, who wouldn't want a pimped out foppish minotaur with a "KNOXX" plaque dangling off his gold chains and diamond-tipped blueshine-plated horns sticking out of his custom phoenix-plumed fedora?) ... but I just can't condone the popular trend of humanizing monsters. Gotta keep monster inventories stocked up, need unambiguously bad stuff to kill, my minotaurs shall remain the half-mindless hungry Cretan brutes of tradition. This ain't Zakhara, this is supposed to be a "PoL" Realms defined by the endless need for heroic adventurers to stomp evil. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 23:06:48
Interesting. I tend to go the opposite route. I will use just about any race as a playable race in my campaigns, provided I can make it fit into my world somewhere, and that it makes sense. No Loxo, though- I've never cared for them, though I HAVe used Giff as NPC's. I've even used some Arcanes. The few races that I don't allow are the 4th Dragonborn or Eladrins (I refuse to use or play any 4th ed)- it's strictly the 3.5 or earlier versions of those two. And the Eladrins are still planar bings in my games, so not playable. Instead of Dragonborn, I just use the Half-dragon for all draconic PC's or NPC's. It's the only draconic race that makes any sense to me from a world-building standpoint, sort of like Half-elves. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 14:08:10
Genasi just don't 'do it for me'. I haven't actually dumped them, I just choose to ignore them. I suppose if a player wanted to use one I'd allow it (I'd rather them be something extremely rare).
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I don't see me ever using the Loxo. I just find the idea too laughable. I know, I know. I can happily have Yakmen and Gnolls and all sorts of monstrosities. But Loxo... They just look too funny.
Loxo I don't mind so much... just don't get me started on the Giff.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I've transformed Goliaths into Taer. They were a late 3.5e addition and don't seem to have a defined place in the Forgotten Realms. As such I've simply combined the two races and added a note that "human explorers who come across Taer settlements sometimes refer to them as Goliaths." Now we've got "Goliaths" in the Forgotten Realms but they're actually a race that already existed.
Thats an interesting take. I felt the Goliaths were WAY too redundant with DOZENS of other races, so I just made them an offshoot of Stone Giants (or Stone Giants could possibly be an offshoot of them - haven't worked out any of that yet). I just say they are 'from the East', so unless I head into the Hordelands and beyond I don't have to worry about them.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I've done the same with Shifters. I've transformed them into Lythari (elven lycanthrope type people). Much like Goliaths, I just found them too generic in the Forgotten Realms (given they're originally an Eberron race). Call them Lythari and say they've descended from elven lycanthropes and they work perfectly. I did have to remove the Lythari ability to transform into wolves at will. However I've explained it by saying "Many Lythari choose to become druids. These druids will occasionally congregate for dire threats or special nights and go about their sacred duties in the shape of an animal. Most often a wolf." This keeps the canon mentions of "Lythari can transform into wolves" but allow the race to be a PC race.
I've gone slightly different route - all my Wood Elves are a type of Lythari (except not all of them become wolves - some have other forms), and the 'curse' of (inherited) Lycanthropy comes from human/lythari crossbreeds (half-elves). It doesn't always manifest - its recessive gene. I don't actually use the word 'Shifters' for them.
I use the term 'shifters' for my version of Eberron's Changelings (I positively hate the fact that they used that term for those things). Their backstory is similar to EB's though - they are the product of Morphic Blood (Dopplegangers breeding with humans).
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
4th ed Eladrin...
No Eladin on my world. I do not use 4th edition rules, so their is absolutely NO reason to incorporate that very messy term into my campaign. I have Gold and Silver elves, as it should be.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
Dragonborn don't exist on my Toril. I really wanted to include them but they just don't belong. I can't find any races that I could "turn them into" and so I can't incorporate them in the Forgotten Realms (my campaign starts at 1357 DR).
I think this is one of those races that I am just going to handwave as 'from elsewhere' (one of the many other continents never detailed). That means I can use them (and so could a player if they begged really nicely), but I don't want to have to think about them much beyond that.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
Kenku are a race I intend to really play up. The reason for that is it's canon that they exist in human cities so I'm quite happy to include them. But I view them as being the equivalent of Dark Sun Elves. And I love my Dark Sun Elves and relish in the opportunity to use them in D&D.
Interesting take. I have never used Kenku because I haven't thought of a good way to do so. In fact, I've never used any of the 'bird people'. But now you have me thinking that the Kenku are the 'drow' of the avian races... thats pretty damn cool.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
Tieflings, Genasi and Aasimars are included. But they tend to be rather rare (much like WotC sorcerers) and will just appear as the child of two human parents.
AGREED - not everything need its own kingdom and society. Half-elves and Half-Orcs have been doing just fine without those for 5 editions (including OD&D). That was just some plain bad design right there.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
With the revelation that Minotaurs existed in Ed's home game...
I love Minotaurs - always have. I have two varieties - one large and feral, and one more sophisticated and similar to the Krynn ones (although I am still conflicted about which way to spin that - which group is the offshoot of the other.)
I've never used Githzerai, but if I did they would be monsters, along with the drow. Not everything has to be a 'playable race'. I'd go so far as to allow a half-drow (because that could lead to some very interesting RP opportunities). I started out as a GH-DM, and my Drow are NASTY, with NO exceptions. Drizzt is just a myth created by drow agents to make people hesitate about killing them on-sight (but they still do).
Seriously - you want the perfect PoL setting, then everything non-human should be a 'monster', including the other core races. I'm not saying players shouldn't be allowed to play them, but the world should be a 'dark and scary place', and non-humans should NOT be 'the norm', IMO. By the same token, Elves and dwarves should also view all the other races as 'monsters' (along with just about everyone else).
I guess I'm a bit old-school; a party consisting of drow, genasi, tieflings, dragonborn, etc don't just "walk into a bar". Uh-uh... not on MY planet they don't. I put them on the first transport to Tatooine and the Mos Eisley cantina. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 11:48:18
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The major races I have no intention on adding to any campaign are all the new 4th ED ones. "Genasai" are an example.
Which edition did Genasi come into existence in? I know their appearance changed in 4th ed, but that implies they existed BEFORE 4th ed.
Tieflings and genasi date back to 2E, though they weren't a Realms race until 3E. Prior to 4E, their physical differences were usually just skin tone, or something else minor -- they appeared mostly human. |
| JohnLynch |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 08:37:15
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The major races I have no intention on adding to any campaign are all the new 4th ED ones. "Genasai" are an example.
Which edition did Genasi come into existence in? I know their appearance changed in 4th ed, but that implies they existed BEFORE 4th ed.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've never used the Loxo or the Thr-Kreen. Not that I've dumped them completely - I just haven't figured out an interesting way to use them.
I don't see me ever using the Loxo. I just find the idea too laughable. I know, I know. I can happily have Yakmen and Gnolls and all sorts of monstrosities. But Loxo... They just look too funny.
I use all the races that have a place in the Forgotten Realms (or at least, I think they have a place).
I've transformed Goliaths into Taer. They were a late 3.5e addition and don't seem to have a defined place in the Forgotten Realms. As such I've simply combined the two races and added a note that "human explorers who come across Taer settlements sometimes refer to them as Goliaths." Now we've got "Goliaths" in the Forgotten Realms but they're actually a race that already existed.
I've done the same with Shifters. I've transformed them into Lythari (elven lycanthrope type people). Much like Goliaths, I just found them too generic in the Forgotten Realms (given they're originally an Eberron race). Call them Lythari and say they've descended from elven lycanthropes and they work perfectly. I did have to remove the Lythari ability to transform into wolves at will. However I've explained it by saying "Many Lythari choose to become druids. These druids will occasionally congregate for dire threats or special nights and go about their sacred duties in the shape of an animal. Most often a wolf." This keeps the canon mentions of "Lythari can transform into wolves" but allow the race to be a PC race.
4th ed Eladrin have been incorporate into 1357 DR. I'm calling them "Half-Eladrin". Celadrin are born from the union of a true eladrin and a sun elf. What results when a true eladrin breeds with a different type of elf has not been specified, giving me room to introduce new types of "half-eladrin". As a nod to 4th ed I've included the line "some humans mistake half-eladrin with true eladrins." My Celadrin don't have a teleport ability (instead getting fire resistance like their 3.5e versions), but should WotC produce an ability that allows teleportation I could either include it as a feat for Celadrin or as a new "half-eladrin" subrace.
Dragonborn don't exist on my Toril. I really wanted to include them but they just don't belong. I can't find any races that I could "turn them into" and so I can't incorporate them in the Forgotten Realms (my campaign starts at 1357 DR).
Warforged do not exist in 1357 DR. Whether they may appear in the future or not is a mystery.
Shades aren't a PC race given that my forgotten realms is starting in 1357 DR.
Kenku are a race I intend to really play up. The reason for that is it's canon that they exist in human cities so I'm quite happy to include them. But I view them as being the equivalent of Dark Sun Elves. And I love my Dark Sun Elves and relish in the opportunity to use them in D&D.
Tieflings, Genasi and Aasimars are included. But they tend to be rather rare (much like WotC sorcerers) and will just appear as the child of two human parents.
With the revelation that Minotaurs existed in Ed's home game and that TSR downplayed their existence due to Krynn "owning" minotaurs, I've expanded on a minotaur settlement near the Labyrinth. Unfortunately cultists of Baphomet held a coup and took over the city. Many minotaurs fled their home as refugees and now live in major cities across Faerun as a displaced people. There are, of course, other minotaur cities out there. But these aren't available to PCs and knowledge about them isn't common (i.e. I haven't made them up yet).
Thri-kreen exist in the canon locations for that race to exist in. However they are not PC playable as they are not permitted in the majority of human settlements that can be found across Faerun due to their monstrous appearance. Should the players journey to a thri-kreen heavy area and need to create a PC they'll be permitted to choose a thri-kreen (with the understanding their character will not be treated as a person should they leave the thri-kreen heavy area and likely be locked up or killed).
Githzerai exist in monasteries hidden across Toril. But due to their strange appearance they're not welcomed in cities and such. Also due to their monastic tendencies and their battle with mindflayers, they typically don't travel to the settlements of other races (instead dealing with a handful of merchants who come to them). So they're not a PC race.
Drow are not permitted as a PC race. They are a villain race (as are Dopplegangers. After I utilise doppelgangers as a big bad villain for a storyline I would probably open up the race to players. But at this stage I want doppelgangers and drow to be seen as mysterious and exotic. Not to be viewed as the equivalent of a dwarf or halfling).
For me I'm trying to include every race I can and still enjoy playing. At the moment I'm DMing a Pathfinder campaign (Carrion Crown) and I essentially forced my players to only play humans. Likewise in Dark Sun I've permitted these races and no other (not even subraces. There are just 9 playable races and THAT's it!).
So with Forgotten Realms I want to say "open up a D&D book and point to a race and that's a playable race in my campaign." But to enjoy the Realms I need the races to exist in a manner that makes sense to the greater world at large. So I've added in SOME restrictions. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 16:17:26
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think the realms have room for everything...the world is huge!
THIS
There are tons and tons of things I've 'filed away', and in that regard I am a lot like Sage. I don't necessarily dump something that has potential just because it doesn't fit into what I am currently running. I have imagined many, many things I've never used on other continents, just in case I want to use just one at a later date.
Often, I'll come across a reference from some obscure source that might not have anything even remotely to do with the Realms or D&D, and it will trigger the potential in my mind for some new race to use in my FR.
For example, take the ghost bears [the actual ursine species native to the world of Strana Mechty, and not the Clan warriors] of BATTLETECH. I was struck by some of their curious natural abilities and appearance, and so I begun crafting a possible race based on this that I might later find a place for in my Realms.
Are you going to make them intelligent bears?
If so, you may want to check out the book The Golden Compass. I didn't really care for the book, myself, but it had intelligent bears, with their own society and civilization, in there. It was one of the few things about the book I really found intriguing.
I can see modeling them into ghost bears -- especially since the names they used would also fit for Clan Ghost Bear! |
| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 15:46:05
I don't think I've ever dismissed/tossed a race out. I've barred players from taking specific races because either A) it didn't fit with the current campaign area or B) it was so horribly broken (not in a uber-powerful way, but literally had horrid mechanics) that it was a deterrent to the game because the other players would need to pick up their slack. This is, however, from a strictly 3rd Editin point of view.
For my 4E games, I allow pretty much everything except perhaps Muls (Dark Sun human + dwarven offspring) and Kalashtar (psionic people of Eberron). Shifters, Goliaths, Warforged, Thri-Kreen, Dragonborn, Tiefling (any demonic/devilish appearance works fine, I'm not picky), Eladrin, Deva/Aasimar, Shades, CORE Races, Minotaurs, etc. are all welcome so long as it comes with a fun and compelling backstory. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 14:47:35
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think the realms have room for everything...the world is huge!
THIS
There are tons and tons of things I've 'filed away', and in that regard I am a lot like Sage. I don't necessarily dump something that has potential just because it doesn't fit into what I am currently running. I have imagined many, many things I've never used on other continents, just in case I want to use just one at a later date.
Often, I'll come across a reference from some obscure source that might not have anything even remotely to do with the Realms or D&D, and it will trigger the potential in my mind for some new race to use in my FR.
For example, take the ghost bears [the actual ursine species native to the world of Strana Mechty, and not the Clan warriors] of BATTLETECH. I was struck by some of their curious natural abilities and appearance, and so I begun crafting a possible race based on this that I might later find a place for in my Realms. |
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