| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| chamber101 |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 22:10:28
Hey guys, can I run something by you?
Tell me your thoughts and ideas regarding what would happen if Shar was destroyed!
Namely; what would happen to her portfolio, the shadowweave, the plane of shadow, her followers and what the other gods' actions might be etc.
I am talking pre SP so 3.5ed 1373DR.
Thanks for your wisdom. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 03:53:54
quote:
Originally posted by Thente Thunderspells
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm reassessing my thoughts about who "should" kill Shar...It's kinda obvious that one gets killed by his/her arch-nemesis. Hence, Mystra, Selune, Mask, and possibly Lathender make "ideal" slayers of the bi*** goddess. But it's too obvious. To treat people with a little surprise, why not "assign" some deity who appears to be apathetic to Shar and all her scheming but is in fact building her/his strength and resources to kill and subsume her. Though admittedly I can't think of a likely candidate at the moment.
Leira! who's not dead at all and has only been playing dead...Best Illusion she ever pulled was making the world think she didn't exist.
Perhaps. But not alone. |
| chamber101 |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 02:22:18
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I like it! well, everything except for the Chosen dying. Shouldn't Mystryl still keep them around just in case? Maybe she could decide that some of them are still useful.
Thanks.
Yeah, I considered Eilistraee also being involved but it is such a royal rumble as it is at the moment!
I am looking forward to introducing some major players and memorable NPCs and orchestrators of this war from the aforementioned involved churches. I'm going to concentrate on each god/religion in turn (kind of like individual volumes in a series) and their involvement in the war and the way the PCs get tangled up with them! Particulary as one of the PCs is very high up in the Tempuran church and another is a Mystran Paladin who is roleplaying some awesome faith doubt issues as he was the one that ultimately used the Tome of Whispers and caused the whole situation. He was surprised to say the least...
He sees a lot of burning villages in his dreams at the moment.
As far as killing off chosen goes, it was a hard decision. I figured that Mystryl no longer needs them (or is not allowed them anymore!) and has so released them from their obligations - she has become a somewhat more distant god now (They way I saw it is that they are/were fragments of Mystras power and with her changing, they are no longer sustained by her power so age begins to catch them up).
There is an idea I am toying with where Midnight gives her life later on to save one of them (probably Elminster). I plan on making her an NPC companion of the PCs as they wade through these dark times.
The chosen will slowly pass to Dweomerheart over the coming year. This will have some serious emotional impact on my players as they have gotten close with Alustriel and Khelben over the last few years!
This whole campaign arc is the big dip in the middle that you get in any good story before the heroes rise and hope returns in the third reel! |
| Thente Thunderspells |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 21:02:27
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm reassessing my thoughts about who "should" kill Shar...It's kinda obvious that one gets killed by his/her arch-nemesis. Hence, Mystra, Selune, Mask, and possibly Lathender make "ideal" slayers of the bi*** goddess. But it's too obvious. To treat people with a little surprise, why not "assign" some deity who appears to be apathetic to Shar and all her scheming but is in fact building her/his strength and resources to kill and subsume her. Though admittedly I can't think of a likely candidate at the moment.
Leira! who's not dead at all and has only been playing dead...Best Illusion she ever pulled was making the world think she didn't exist. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 20:18:30
I like it! well, everything except for the Chosen dying. Shouldn't Mystryl still keep them around just in case? Maybe she could decide that some of them are still useful. That's just a minor thing, though- the rest sound great! (And you might even get Eilistraee involved, fighting over the caverns portfolio with Lolth and Ibrandul! Not her usual style, I know, but if she thought it would help her gain some followers.... *shrugs*) |
| chamber101 |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 15:48:47
OK well thanks for everyones input. This i what has transpired and what I have decided to run in my campaign.
Remember, I wanted a "Realms Shaking Event" and this is what they are getting...
Using a macguffin called The Tome of Whispers that had been stolen from Cyric by a crusade of Helmites (which tied in with another plot line i ran a few years back)the PCs have 'ended' Shar.
In the build up to the event, there were strange portents and omens seen by followers of both Shar and Mystra and many followers of Shar gathering at Silverymoon at The Body of Shar, but not knowing why.
When the event occured, Selune claimed Night, Cyric took Secrets and Mask took Darkness.
Midnight fell back to Toril in her mortal form as she absorbed the Shadowweave and Mystryl has now been reborn.
Shars remaining portfolios are now the subject of a multi fronted holy war where the churches of Lolth, Jergal, Mask, Bane, Selune, Talona, Savras, Loviatar and possibly a rejuvenated Ibrandul (now that the portfolio Caverns is unclaimed) are all claiming her remnants and are to clash in an event that when the ashes cool and the dust settles, shall be forever remembered as The War of Broken Shadows. The churches of Torm, Helm, Lathander etc of course will not just stand by and watch the cities burn and will be forced to act as the world goes to hell in an handbasket around them.
There is going to be a serious death toll! This is Apocolyptic stuff that will forever change the face of my realms.
There are some other side effects that I may or may not play into depending on the players actions including;
The chosen are dying as they are no longer needed by Mystryl.
It is rumoured that Cyric allowed the Tome of Whispers to be stolen knowing that it would end with the death of Shar.
Midnight is now a mortal with no memory of what happened since Mount Waterdeep.
As a side effect of absorbing the Shadowweave and reaserting herself as the Lady of Mysteries, Mystryl has gone slightly mad and all magic for the time being is wild magic and subject to surges (causing many to beleive that a new Time of Troubles is about to occur!).
Cyric and Mask have tentatively allied themselves and are masquerading as Shar granting her followers spells.
According to the Leaves of One Night, this year (my campaign year is 1373) is known as The Year of Madness and the year before as The Year of Darkness Returns.
It is no longer a prerequisite to be a follower of Shar to learn the Shadowweave and as mages learn of this new development, it leads many spell casters onto a path of darkness as they turn to this now open form of magic that was formerly a mystery to non Sharrans.
Both Mystryl and Selunes Church become somewhat darker as they absorb aspects of their sister. Mystryl actually reverts to her old Chaotic Neutral alignment as she was before the fall.
Mystryl used to own the portfolios of wizards, spellcasters, creativity, knowledge, invention, song, time and spring which are now portfolios of Lathander, Azuth, Milil, Labelas and Ohgma so she may have an 'interest' in reclaiming these portfolios.
I have already gone through and made notes of major temples locations and where these holy wars will initially spark off so I wouldnt recommend being anywhere near Waterdeep, Calimport, Voonlar etc for the forseeable future!
I have a lot of work to do obviously but i think this will be an era in my campaign that the players will remember for quite some time!
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| Dennis |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 03:07:40
I'm reassessing my thoughts about who "should" kill Shar...It's kinda obvious that one gets killed by his/her arch-nemesis. Hence, Mystra, Selune, Mask, and possibly Lathender make "ideal" slayers of the bi*** goddess. But it's too obvious. To treat people with a little surprise, why not "assign" some deity who appears to be apathetic to Shar and all her scheming but is in fact building her/his strength and resources to kill and subsume her. Though admittedly I can't think of a likely candidate at the moment. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 01:29:48
Actually, it'd be kinda funny if Lathander/Amaunator killed her! (light/sun defeats darkness/night) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 18:19:09
-Yeah, I never really liked the Shar-Mystra "rivalry" that was stressed for the better part of 3e. I mean, sure, Mystra and Shar are bitter enemies, but Shar's primary enemy is Selūne, and that rivalry got a lot less storyline time than the Shar-Mystra one. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 10:38:26
They already got the Abyssalplague coming...
Maybe the Shadowplague will be the 5E RSE/D&DSE... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 10:23:52
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Selune.
Well, she's welcome to help Mask and Mystra.
I'm not sure though if the Realms is "ready" for her death. People still feel the sting of the Spellplague. Who knows what Shar's death would bring?! Shadowplague? |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 08:31:31
Selune. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:42:54
If there's anyone more "deserving" to kill Shar, it's Mystra or Mask. Mystra, for revenge, and so that she could take over the Shadow Weave. Or Mask, so that...he could regain what he had lost to her, which was practically everything. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 12:09:19
Death to Shar! |
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 08:48:29
It'll be fine if she is killed, so long as she kills Cyric first. |
| Thieran |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 23:00:41
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
cave lizard Ibrandul is not interesting at all
His enemies are numerous, it seems. No wonder they eliminated him; became too dangerous obviously. |
| Quale |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 22:54:13
by killing Shar you're doing her a favor, if you hate her so much keep her alive and suffering
cave lizard Ibrandul is not interesting at all |
| Thente Thunderspells |
Posted - 25 Apr 2011 : 20:11:29
I love the idea of killing off Shar!
Ibrandul FTW, Mystra --> to NN as she was pre ToT, Mask say hello to some new portfolio elements.
Maybe... Cyric get's knocked down to Lesser/Intermediate as he loses Illusion/Trickery to a renewed Leira whose illusions aided the slayers of Shar get to Shar in the first place, thus revealing the greatest deception of all time, her own death and plan to strike at the enemy no one ever knew she had, Shar!
Oh, and since I'm fond of Waukeen, one of the tasks PC's would have to go through would involve Grazzt and they would have the chance to find and free the Merchant goddess too... |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 05:29:26
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
That wouldn't be much different from killing Lolth- she also has influence on multiple worlds, but killing her would simply affect her followers on those worlds, and perhaps cause some upheaval among the gods of those worlds, Shar is no different, and both are greater deities.
Sigh...and Lolth used to be nothing more than a Demon/Lesser God.
Times...they are a'changin' |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 03:39:59
That wouldn't be much different from killing Lolth- she also has influence on multiple worlds, but killing her would simply affect her followers on those worlds, and perhaps cause some upheaval among the gods of those worlds, Shar is no different, and both are greater deities. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 01:25:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Whoa, the implications of the death of a greater deity such as Shar are huge. First her portfolios would attract alot of divine attention. Then her domain in the Shadowplane (if it survived her destruction) would be up for grabs aswell. Her secert clergy would likely fall into disarray too.
If you take what Paul Kemp wrote in his Cale series as cannon (which I think is meant to be) then Shar death could actually be more catastrophic than Mystra's. While Mystra is a deity only tied to the Realms, Shar's influence spread to several worlds in the multiverse (one of which is visited in the Twilight War trilogy). So I think that her death might actually hurt the cosmos. If I were to think of a way to have PCs accomplish the task, I would go with making the gather and assemble the pieces to an artifact that can trap the soul of a deity in the body of one of its avatars. Not that even defeating one of Shar's avatars would be easy (see F&P 3e, page 60). It would definitely be an epic campaign. Also, if the PCs learn about how much more detrimental Shar's death would be than Mystra's, they may decide not to go through with it.
I don't think the cosmos would be affected. Many deities have been slain in many different worlds, without having an impact on any others. Shar isn't tied to the cosmos -- she is just a little more widespread than most other Realms deities. Her death would affect each world the same as the death of any other single deity would -- the fact that it's happening in multiple places at once is irrelevant, because those places aren't connected to each other.
If each world is a glass of water sitting on an aluminum table, dropping pebbles into each glass isn't going to affect the table. Even breaking all of the glasses won't affect the table itself.
Wooly has the right of it.
It's important to relate the relationship of deities to Realmspace, with a suitable degree of appreciation for their place and power to a specific world as well.
It isn't always easy to assume that one singular deity's life would impact upon the entire multiverse... unless that deity truly had a multispheric scope. And as far as I know, Shar doesn't.
|
| Hawkins |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 18:44:12
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't think the cosmos would be affected. Many deities have been slain in many different worlds, without having an impact on any others. Shar isn't tied to the cosmos -- she is just a little more widespread than most other Realms deities. Her death would affect each world the same as the death of any other single deity would -- the fact that it's happening in multiple places at once is irrelevant, because those places aren't connected to each other.
If each world is a glass of water sitting on an aluminum table, dropping pebbles into each glass isn't going to affect the table. Even breaking all of the glasses won't affect the table itself.
Good point, Wooly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 18:27:21
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Whoa, the implications of the death of a greater deity such as Shar are huge. First her portfolios would attract alot of divine attention. Then her domain in the Shadowplane (if it survived her destruction) would be up for grabs aswell. Her secert clergy would likely fall into disarray too.
If you take what Paul Kemp wrote in his Cale series as cannon (which I think is meant to be) then Shar death could actually be more catastrophic than Mystra's. While Mystra is a deity only tied to the Realms, Shar's influence spread to several worlds in the multiverse (one of which is visited in the Twilight War trilogy). So I think that her death might actually hurt the cosmos. If I were to think of a way to have PCs accomplish the task, I would go with making the gather and assemble the pieces to an artifact that can trap the soul of a deity in the body of one of its avatars. Not that even defeating one of Shar's avatars would be easy (see F&P 3e, page 60). It would definitely be an epic campaign. Also, if the PCs learn about how much more detrimental Shar's death would be than Mystra's, they may decide not to go through with it.
I don't think the cosmos would be affected. Many deities have been slain in many different worlds, without having an impact on any others. Shar isn't tied to the cosmos -- she is just a little more widespread than most other Realms deities. Her death would affect each world the same as the death of any other single deity would -- the fact that it's happening in multiple places at once is irrelevant, because those places aren't connected to each other.
If each world is a glass of water sitting on an aluminum table, dropping pebbles into each glass isn't going to affect the table. Even breaking all of the glasses won't affect the table itself. |
| Thieran |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 17:30:49
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
I don't like the idea of a replacement for Shar. But getting rid of her is a good thing. Vivat for Ibrandul... and patching a dark part onto Selune :D
Yay! Glad to see someone else thinks Ibrandul rocks. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 17:07:01
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Whoa, the implications of the death of a greater deity such as Shar are huge. First her portfolios would attract alot of divine attention. Then her domain in the Shadowplane (if it survived her destruction) would be up for grabs aswell. Her secert clergy would likely fall into disarray too.
If you take what Paul Kemp wrote in his Cale series as cannon (which I think is meant to be) then Shar death could actually be more catastrophic than Mystra's. While Mystra is a deity only tied to the Realms, Shar's influence spread to several worlds in the multiverse (one of which is visited in the Twilight War trilogy). So I think that her death might actually hurt the cosmos. If I were to think of a way to have PCs accomplish the task, I would go with making the gather and assemble the pieces to an artifact that can trap the soul of a deity in the body of one of its avatars. Not that even defeating one of Shar's avatars would be easy (see F&P 3e, page 60). It would definitely be an epic campaign. Also, if the PCs learn about how much more detrimental Shar's death would be than Mystra's, they may decide not to go through with it. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 16:03:40
Whoa, the implications of the death of a greater deity such as Shar are huge. First her portfolios would attract alot of divine attention. Then her domain in the Shadowplane (if it survived her destruction) would be up for grabs aswell. Her secert clergy would likely fall into disarray too.
I'd think Cyric would be very interested in the spoils of war his former allied mistress would leave behind, especially the Secrets portfolio. Night would likely be secured by Mask or Selune. Forgetfullness and Loss are both powerful spheres of influence in Fearun, and I have my doubts there are any able gods up to the challenge of maintaining these; perhaps Cyric or Talos can learn to harness these portfolios. Dungeons, Caverns, the Underdark could all be usefull for Lolth, Loviatar, Gruumsh or Deep Duerra.
Shars domain in the Plane of Shadow is so obfuscated and lightless that few deities can quickly take it for themselves. Mask is probably the most knowledgable of this realm that he could maintain a certain influence over it, but my guess is that Shars domain will be abaondoned and merged into the greater depths of ths Plane of Shadow itself.
On Fearun proper Sharran cells deeply intwined into societies are likely to fall into chaos, but as these are largely very secretive and hidden from plain sight the consequences are not that easily felt by Fearuns populace. Selunite churches would have a long period of repsite from the multiple machinations of the Sharran cells against their churches, so they are likely to gain a much more prevalent place in societies. Likewise, all the governmental institutions will be able to much more effectively operate without the mulitple assassinations and corruption of their members.
But largely I think Selune would be at a loss aswell. Her darker half would be destroyed utterly, and missing a twin sister would make her morose for quite the time. I always thought her intention towards Shar were to let her see some positive light, not destroy her. She'd become a more depressed deity for having failed her own other side. So I agree with Alystra that she might become a much more darker moongoddes as a result of all that. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 06:26:42
I like the idea of her portfolio of Night going to Selune, and Shadow Weave going to Mystra. Make both of them a little less "goody-goody". |
| Sill Alias |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 04:55:49
You know, I haven't had a thought that Mystra could make such a plan to get killed on purpose. Come to think of it, magic still exists and Shadow Weave does not. Perhaps the purpose of the silver sparks of Chosens were given much greater goal than just resurrecting Mystra.
Mostly wild theories with no back up other than gut feeling, but it could be that death of Shar could break balance, since both Selune and Shar made world, with darkness as basis for mater. Who knows... Mega disintegration of all living and nonliving? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 16 Apr 2011 : 07:02:03
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Karsus isn't important enough to warrant such a nemesis. (IMO, of course. I know you probably feel differently  )
-Apparently, Shar manipulated that great, mighty, handsome Arcanist. A revolting development. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 16 Apr 2011 : 06:31:08
quote:
Originally posted by Abenabin Gimblescrew
I am getting the impression you took what I said personally. All I can say is it wasn't my intention to single out anyone in a specific sense.
Impressive write up on your homebrew deity. I'm sure he works well in your Realms.
Wrong impression mate...I was only being sarcastic toward the death of Mystra.
Thanks on that version of Dalor...he did indeed work well for that campaign.
I don't use him outside of that game though...he really only fit in that game because of the characters in the game. |
| Abenabin Gimblescrew |
Posted - 16 Apr 2011 : 06:21:20
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I believe that Mask already foresaw Shar consuming him, and that is what he was preparing for with the events chronicled in the Twilight War trilogy. I also believe that said events may provide for his rebirth in the forthcoming Godborn, first book in the Cycle of Night. So I think it is premature to think him truly gone until we see future events, being written right now, unfold.
My apologies. I haven't read any of the books just what I've gleamed from reading the forum discussions. It would be interesting to hear if Mask does indeed make a comeback. I'll keep a lookout for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Abenabin Gimblescrew
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I suggest that whatever "replaces" Shar be far worse and vile! 
"Better the evil you know..."
I disagree. Shar is one of the most vile of deities, you'd be hard press to find one better. As people have already alluded to, if Bane can make a comeback I'm sure Shar could/would (depending on the DM).
Besides, if there was just a BBEG just waiting in the wings that steps into one of the creators of Toril I would call any DM out on poor story construction. That would be a crippling blow for Evil at the cosmic level, which the aftermath could go either way.
<snip>
Poor story construction? You mean like Cyric being able to murder the God of Magic on the God's home plane and causing the redrawing of all Faerun? That sort of poorness?
How about if the God that "did in" Shar had help from a God that was more powerful than Shar? How about if the God that "did in" Shar actually wasn't able to destroy her...but imprison her and then syphon the power of her worshipers? How about if the God that "did in" Shar actually worked with Mystra to strip the Shadow Weave from Shar and give it to Mystra?
I am getting the impression you took what I said personally. All I can say is it wasn't my intention to single out anyone in a specific sense.
Impressive write up on your homebrew deity. I'm sure he works well in your Realms.
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