| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Razz |
Posted - 07 Jan 2009 : 06:04:30
This is one of the rare times a piece of 4E material just may help out some 3E gaming. I noticed one of Dragon #371 is an article on the "What If?" for Warforged being native to the Realms (and Genasi being native to Eberron, but the former is more interesting and on topic).
I am eager to read this one. I doubt it'll be one of those "this is official" sort of things as I see the article turning out to be "if it was official, this is how we'd do it" but I hope it's an interesting read.
I guess I brought it up on this forum since it involves running material in the Realms and I remember some of the folks here stating they do run Warforged in the Realms. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 05:14:57
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Speaking of articles on that particular topic... 
Believe it or not, I had some time early yesterday morning to start on that. But then I encountered one of the nuisance ASP errors when I tried to post. And since I've had to deactivate the post buffers I've installed in SageBrowser, I lost my reply. 
Better luck next time.  |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 05:05:52
I was going through the map galleries for the new Dungeon magazines and came across this gem of a map from Dungeon 161.
WHY would you create a map that shows a street going diagonal to the map grid? I understand the road is not built along the north-south or east-west lines, but are you serious? North is up, so you have to make movement MORE difficult for the miniatures? How hard would it be to show the road inline with the map grid and offset the COMPASS key?
I don't know if this was laziness or if the designer was trying to be difficult or something. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 05:03:12
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Lantan and Eber-whatsit ideas are simply too obvious, though.
Well, one idea I've had on that angle is that it could be that the warforged in question is actually an evolved form of Gondsman [thanks, maybe, to the empathic link it shared with its creator Techsmith], originally crafted by the Lantanese of Illul. This particular Gondsman/warforged may have grown up from its infancy "assistant" stage... embracing the warrior-aspect of its make-up and embarking on a life of adventure all its own.
There's actually more to this idea, but I'm currently sitting on the majority of the theory until I've written up a proper article for inclusion here at Candlekeep.
Speaking of articles on that particular topic... |
| Ghost King |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 04:43:56
The more stuff I see come out for 4E the more I'm loathe it. Many of the points given about their obvious lack of creativity in their work shows, at least to me, they are not interested in the roleplaying aspect of the game anymore and more interested in just making another wargame. Which is fine, but they just should have said that up front then waste people's time and money. Any case, Sage, good luck with your work on that idea. Looks like you got a good start I'll be interested in reading it once you post it up to see your take on things. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 23:22:59
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Lantan and Eber-whatsit ideas are simply too obvious, though.
Well, one idea I've had on that angle is that it could be that the warforged in question is actually an evolved form of Gondsman [thanks, maybe, to the empathic link it shared with its creator Techsmith], originally crafted by the Lantanese of Illul. This particular Gondsman/warforged may have grown up from its infancy "assistant" stage... embracing the warrior-aspect of its make-up and embarking on a life of adventure all its own.
There's actually more to this idea, but I'm currently sitting on the majority of the theory until I've written up a proper article for inclusion here at Candlekeep. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 22:22:01
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
[quote]Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's it?!? They wrote an article that included a backstory that anyone could have thought up with about 5 seconds' time and a distraction?
the example I showed was only one of several background possibilities from the article, but yes, for this specific example, it is it.
the article seems like it's been done quickly
possibilities are:
One-Off Wizard Experiment
Lantan’s Remnant: You are a marvel of spirit-infused clockwork that
surpassed all Lantan’s previous craft.
Red Wizard Exclusive: produced by one enclave
Stranger in a Strange Land: arrived from Eberron, the Draconic Prophecy extends to FR
Vestige of Gontal: emerged from the destroyed fortress of a primordial
Shifters: in Dambrath, Luruar (People of the Black Blood)
-Thanks Quale.
BRIMSTONE(FREE CYRIC)  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 22:19:41
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
[quote]Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's it?!? They wrote an article that included a backstory that anyone could have thought up with about 5 seconds' time and a distraction?
the example I showed was only one of several background possibilities from the article, but yes, for this specific example, it is it.
the article seems like it's been done quickly
possibilities are:
One-Off Wizard Experiment
Lantan’s Remnant: You are a marvel of spirit-infused clockwork that
surpassed all Lantan’s previous craft.
Red Wizard Exclusive: produced by one enclave
Stranger in a Strange Land: arrived from Eberron, the Draconic Prophecy extends to FR
Vestige of Gontal: emerged from the destroyed fortress of a primordial
Shifters: in Dambrath, Luruar (People of the Black Blood)
Well, the one-off experiment idea isn't a bad one. And the Red Wizard idea is also decent. The Lantan and Eber-whatsit ideas are simply too obvious, though.
In fact, that's one thing that's bothered me in general about the 4E stuff: the sample backgrounds. I understand the intent, but most of the ones I've seen are a combination of bland and almost painfully obvious. It's almost like they're trying to dumb the game down to the point that role-playing is an afterthought.
Back on topic, I don't see a need to connect shifters to People of the Black Blood. It is an obvious connection, but it's not like the Realms doesn't have weres elsewhere. And it seems to me that most weres would be individuals, and not part of an organization -- so shifters can pop up in isolation, anywhere. |
| Quale |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 21:57:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
[quote]Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's it?!? They wrote an article that included a backstory that anyone could have thought up with about 5 seconds' time and a distraction?
the example I showed was only one of several background possibilities from the article, but yes, for this specific example, it is it.
the article seems like it's been done quickly
possibilities are:
One-Off Wizard Experiment
Lantan’s Remnant: You are a marvel of spirit-infused clockwork that
surpassed all Lantan’s previous craft.
Red Wizard Exclusive: produced by one enclave
Stranger in a Strange Land: arrived from Eberron, the Draconic Prophecy extends to FR
Vestige of Gontal: emerged from the destroyed fortress of a primordial
Shifters: in Dambrath, Luruar (People of the Black Blood) |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 20:19:45
-I like the Rauthamari angle myself. Or use them as Terra Cotta Warriors from Shou-Lung (That is the right spot in Kara-Tur Markus?)
-Shifters would be the People of the Black Blood. 
-Kalashtar(sp) would be from Jhaamdath or descendents of them that went into hiding. Doesn't Elminsters Ecologies have something about a Hidden City of Psionic Monks in the Stormhorns? 
BRIMSTONE |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 23:31:33
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's it?!? They wrote an article that included a backstory that anyone could have thought up with about 5 seconds' time and a distraction?
the example I showed was only one of several background possibilities from the article, but yes, for this specific example, it is it.
Okay... Well, then for the other possibilities: are they more well-thought out and grounded in lore, or are they also generic attempts that anyone could come up with? |
| scererar |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 22:34:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's it?!? They wrote an article that included a backstory that anyone could have thought up with about 5 seconds' time and a distraction?
the example I showed was only one of several background possibilities from the article, but yes, for this specific example, it is it. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 20:02:00
I *was* going to post about the interview with Bruce Cordell and the 'Return of Acererak' in the Open Grave sourcebook for 4th Edition, but I find that I can't do it. Everything I tried typing turned into a rant and I don't want to rant anymore. So, if you want, check out the article. The first half discusses our favoritve one-eyed, one-handed evilness (Vecna). The second half is about the villain from the Tomb of Horrors. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 16:36:19
Yeah, that wasn't too impressive, was it? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 07:30:43
That's it?!? They wrote an article that included a backstory that anyone could have thought up with about 5 seconds' time and a distraction? |
| scererar |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 03:43:28
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
the article gives examples of how a Warfordged character could be feasible within a realms campaign. most of the examples come as a rare construct type creature, left over from lost lands such as Lantan. Another example is of a warforged who found his way from Eberron to Faerun through Sigil.
Interesting. Did the article elaborate at all on the experiences of the warforged in Sigil? I'd love to see how the warforged would react when it happened across the Great Foundry for example...
A snippet from Dragon Magazine 371, Article: origin Stories, pertaining to Warforged traveling to Toril via Sigil.
Stranger in a Strange Land
"You followed clues and fleeting visions to creep behind the world, which is when you discovered Sigil, the City of Doors. You couldn’t imagine who could have created it or how, and Sigil held portals
uncounted, leading to other planes and even other worlds. It was a wondrously strange place whose sprawling streets looped around inside a mileswide ring so they met where they began. Creatures beyond count teemed in those streets, and you were one of them, but only briefly. Out of your element and unsettled by the sudden appearance of a woman bristling with living blades, you stumbled through a strange portal and fell into a strange land".
Character Motivations
"One or more primary desires might influence you. Return to Eberron: Though you were excited to find Sigil and even to travel to Toril, an entirely alternate world to your own dragon-prophesied home, you were dismayed to discover that no easy way back immediately presented itself. When you picked yourself up from the cobbles of a Waterdhavian alley, nothing remained of the passage. It went one way only". |
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 03:30:23
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
the article gives examples of how a Warfordged character could be feasible within a realms campaign. most of the examples come as a rare construct type creature, left over from lost lands such as Lantan. Another example is of a warforged who found his way from Eberron to Faerun through Sigil.
Interesting. Did the article elaborate at all on the experiences of the warforged in Sigil? I'd love to see how the warforged would react when it happened across the Great Foundry for example...
|
| scererar |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 03:18:47
I may have misspoke a tad about being "lost"
Lantan according to FRCG p. 162.
LANTAN’S REST
The great tsunamis that followed the shifting continents inundated Lantan as it ravaged other coasts and island nations. When the water receded, the island land was nearly gone. All its machines, its technology, and its people were drowned. The land is much reduced in area,and its clockwork marvels lie rusting below the waves. The pirates of Nelanther say a monster sinks any ship that draws near.
My example was just trying to portray Lantan as it was in the past, as one example of where A Warforged character could feasibly come out of. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 02:58:42
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
the article gives examples of how a Warfordged character could be feasible within a realms campaign. most of the examples come as a rare construct type creature, left over from lost lands such as Lantan. Another example is of a warforged who found his way from Eberron to Faerun through Sigil.
Lantan is lost?
So, it's basically the same as what some of us have already come up with, from the sound of it.
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Interesting article, but nothing that locks Warforged into the realms in any significant numbers. Only very, very rare examples.
Oh, that part doesn't bother me at all. I prefer that approach... The article I myself wrote only had two dozen of them being created -- and of the first dozen, nine were definitely destroyed, another is believed destroyed, and two are unaccounted for. The second dozen were built but the final activation never happened. |
| scererar |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 02:50:29
the article gives examples of how a Warfordged character could be feasible within a realms campaign. most of the examples come as a rare construct type creature, left over from lost lands such as Lantan. Another example is of a warforged who found his way from Eberron to Faerun through Sigil.
The Genesi portion of the article talks more of how to fit that race into Eberron.
Interesting article, but nothing that locks Warforged into the realms in any significant numbers. Only very, very rare examples. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Jan 2009 : 23:43:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
So I read that article...not very interesting at all. Just some stuff about how to adapt a story for these races in those worlds. Nothing concrete or official.
Darn. Oh well.
How did they do it? Was there any attempt to ground them in existing lore, or was it a generic "here's how this race could be used in setting X"?
Yeah, I'd like to hear about this as well.
Also, were there any examples of how these races would interact with existing Realms races?
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Jan 2009 : 21:44:19
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
So I read that article...not very interesting at all. Just some stuff about how to adapt a story for these races in those worlds. Nothing concrete or official.
Darn. Oh well.
How did they do it? Was there any attempt to ground them in existing lore, or was it a generic "here's how this race could be used in setting X"? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Jan 2009 : 18:59:56
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Nothing concrete or official.
LOL...
I think that should be the 4e 'catch Phrase'. |
| Razz |
Posted - 22 Jan 2009 : 16:26:09
So I read that article...not very interesting at all. Just some stuff about how to adapt a story for these races in those worlds. Nothing concrete or official.
Darn. Oh well. |
| RyldVrinn |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 15:17:10
When Races of Eberron came out, I liked the idea of Warforged. But I made a very special condition for the one player who wanted to play one, in place of his current character. It was a five game session quest to find the Three Singing Sisters - three artifact forges that were the only way one could make a warforged. After that, the group had to make a pact with the Guardian of the Well of All Souls to use the forges' gifts responsibly, or the Guardian would claim them, and the forges, to ensure mortal hands could never touch the Singing Sisters again.
The Three Singing Sisters were created in Netheril, and all lore about them and the warforged had been lost in the fall. |
| scererar |
Posted - 09 Jan 2009 : 01:57:36
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Besides... wouldn't Dwarven version be about 4.5' to 5' tall?
not if they were made to be able to reach items off of the top shelf |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jan 2009 : 22:49:00
Besides... wouldn't Dwarven version be about 4.5' to 5' tall?
Dwarves, probably moreso then most other races (except the Elves) consider themselves 'perfect' in form - they would build Warforged that looked like large, hulking Dwarves. I don't see them building 'perfect warriors' that had more human proportions.
Which leads me to think that a very good Eberron article is in the offing, on Warforged variants, based on the other races.
Lantan works, only because there are just as many human Gondsmen there, and the fact that (Tinker) Gnomes tend to think of things in terms of "Bigger is Better". In fact, a Gnomish Warforged is more likely to be Ogre-sized, then human-sized. I think, perhaps, they are mnaking up for something.
Another intersting way to go would be to use the Effigy Master, and create Warforged that were very 'Edward Scissorhands' in appearance. |
| Ghost King |
Posted - 08 Jan 2009 : 19:20:01
That is a fair assumption and I totally agree with them developing the warjacks with their gnomish cousins. I'll give the floor on the idea dwarves probably wouldn't have mass produced living constructs probably based on the fact you presented. I still think they would have been developed by individual dwarves just to see if they could do it just for the fame of doing so. But I'm sure it would have been a rare occurance since as you said dwarves favor war machines over making anything else. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Jan 2009 : 19:07:44
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost King
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The dwarven angle is a good idea... But there's one thing that makes it not work for me: the numbers. Dwarves are consummate craftsmen, and the time needed for such a feat would be prohibitive -- especially considering that their numbers have never been that large. While I can see dwarves crafting one or two living constructs here and there during times of peace, I don't see it happening during war.
I'd more readily expect sentient and animated weapons from dwarves, rather than something like warforged.
I favor the Rauthamar origin for two reasons: it was ages ago, so we get the whole ancient legacies thing going on, and because it's already established Realmslore that they were playing with golems and other constructs. It's easier to extrapolate that out just a bit to make something like warforged.
Oh, and the Rauthamar got the idea from the Imaskari.
Fair enough. My lore is not as up-to-date that far back, so excuse the ignorance. I find it a bit disappointing that dwarves always get the "short-end of the stick" so to speak, but even with less numbers I still believe they alone would have mastered it first. Not saying eventually Rauthamar isn't capable of developing their own would-be Warforged, but I just see dwarves as crafters of all things great not just weapons or armor, but I'll admit they are second to none with those types of crafting.
I was aware of the low numbers of the dwarves, which is why I thought it more plausable for them to resort to creating the Warforged in the first place to shore up their numbers. And while I do agree they would take a great deal of time to create Warforged one by one, I don't think it is far fetched to say they would make their version of a Creation Forge in some places to increase production. Most likely, they would have done that as a deseperate act which would have been too late anyways.
With your added input though I think probably the four likely nations to have developed the Warforged, regardless of how many were created, would have been:
Netheril (for the fact they had the Nether Scrolls with one scroll devoted to making artifacts and another to constructs), Raumathar, Lantan, and Old Shanatar.
That way there would be a variety of such creations, but with Raumathar being prominent in items associated to Warforged-like constructs.
But if I'm not mistaken, isn't there a city in Faerun completely dedicated to Gond that is hundreds of years ahead of the Realms in technology and crafting? I'm getting that second hand information from someone else, but I'm pretty sure I read of such a place aside from Lantan. I don't think anyone once they enter the city can leave, however.
But back on topic, I don't necessarily disagree with you, Wooly, but I just think it is a bit disappointing that dwarves are the ones over looked just because they lack numbers.
Whatever the case, I'm saying that those nations I listed would have probably developed a living construct, but Raumathar as the biggest contributor to the whole from what you just brought to my attention.
Ghost King
I like dwarves, too, I just don't see them building warforged on anything other than an individual basis... Another factor I failed to mention: would dwarves really make something to fight for them? I don't think it really fits the dwarven mindset for them to make something that would replace a dwarf. Other kinds of war machines*, yes, but not something that would independently fight.
*Dwarves would be the most likely group to develop warjacks, I think, with gnomes and the Lantanna being the next most likely. I think a warjack would appeal to dwarven sensibilities, while remaining a machine of war that wasn't going to be a replacement dwarf. |
| Ghost King |
Posted - 08 Jan 2009 : 18:59:00
Well said, Markustay. The one time I forget to check for other posts before I go ahead and reply. Anyways, I agree with what you said.
|
| Ghost King |
Posted - 08 Jan 2009 : 18:52:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The dwarven angle is a good idea... But there's one thing that makes it not work for me: the numbers. Dwarves are consummate craftsmen, and the time needed for such a feat would be prohibitive -- especially considering that their numbers have never been that large. While I can see dwarves crafting one or two living constructs here and there during times of peace, I don't see it happening during war.
I'd more readily expect sentient and animated weapons from dwarves, rather than something like warforged.
I favor the Rauthamar origin for two reasons: it was ages ago, so we get the whole ancient legacies thing going on, and because it's already established Realmslore that they were playing with golems and other constructs. It's easier to extrapolate that out just a bit to make something like warforged.
Oh, and the Rauthamar got the idea from the Imaskari.
Fair enough. My lore is not as up-to-date that far back, so excuse the ignorance. I find it a bit disappointing that dwarves always get the "short-end of the stick" so to speak, but even with less numbers I still believe they alone would have mastered it first. Not saying eventually Rauthamar isn't capable of developing their own would-be Warforged, but I just see dwarves as crafters of all things great not just weapons or armor, but I'll admit they are second to none with those types of crafting.
I was aware of the low numbers of the dwarves, which is why I thought it more plausable for them to resort to creating the Warforged in the first place to shore up their numbers. And while I do agree they would take a great deal of time to create Warforged one by one, I don't think it is far fetched to say they would make their version of a Creation Forge in some places to increase production. Most likely, they would have done that as a deseperate act which would have been too late anyways.
With your added input though I think probably the four likely nations to have developed the Warforged, regardless of how many were created, would have been:
Netheril (for the fact they had the Nether Scrolls with one scroll devoted to making artifacts and another to constructs), Raumathar, Lantan, and Old Shanatar.
That way there would be a variety of such creations, but with Raumathar being prominent in items associated to Warforged-like constructs.
But if I'm not mistaken, isn't there a city in Faerun completely dedicated to Gond that is hundreds of years ahead of the Realms in technology and crafting? I'm getting that second hand information from someone else, but I'm pretty sure I read of such a place aside from Lantan. I don't think anyone once they enter the city can leave, however.
But back on topic, I don't necessarily disagree with you, Wooly, but I just think it is a bit disappointing that dwarves are the ones over looked just because they lack numbers.
Whatever the case, I'm saying that those nations I listed would have probably developed a living construct, but Raumathar as the biggest contributor to the whole from what you just brought to my attention.
Ghost King |
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